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The Anger is justified, but please direct it in a useful direction

A topic by Siegmernes created 79 days ago Views: 11,962 Replies: 174
Viewing posts 1 to 49
(+69)

Itch is not the bad guy in this Situation. 

They are pressured by the payment providers who control any money coming into Itch or other sites. If Itch does not comply, ALL payments could be affected, not just for NSFW products.

The Payment Providers and the laws that enable this behaviour are to blame. If you live in the US, please call your representatives and demand change, sign petitions , anything. Just don't sit here and yell at Itch who have literally done nothing wrong and are just trying to keep the Site alive.

(1 edit) (+18)

Yea, exactly. As much as they could inform people in advance there is really nothing else they could have done (people don't realise every payment is either done by Visa or Mastercard under the hood), so they should put focus on making those companies are not able to use pressure on game hosting sites. 

(+28)

Call Visa or Mastercard:

Mastercard (Aus): 1800-120-113 

Mastercard (US): 1-800-307-7309 

Mastercard (UK): 0800-96-4767

Mastercard (US): 1-800-627-8372 

Mastercard (Int.): +1-636-722-7111 

Visa (US + Can): 1 800 847 2911 

Visa (AUS): 1 800 125 440 

PayPal: +44-0203-901-7000

(+6)

Thanks for posting this. The problem is though, I think we're all shy about fighting this because it's about something a bit... taboo. Like I'm not gonna tell my parents about this issue, or assume any nsfw devs are sending petition links to their friends. Mastercard has us by the balls here & I don't think enough people will complain. 

(+13)

You only need to mention that a group pressured these credit companies into the forcing steam and itch to remove games that have adult content and share your worried that if there allowed to continue doing this they will more than likely go after more and more media that as any adult elements like Witcher and mass effect since they have sex scenes from example eventually letting them freely take down anything they deem as negative or too sexual. Hammer in the fact that its not Adult games your worried about but the where this behaviour eventually leads and the consequences it would have on indie developers and gaming as a whole in the future.

(+10)

You don't even have to say what sort of transactions they were. These companies denied legal transactions. 

(+8)

Hey now, some of us are proud smut enjoyers. I made the guy at the Visa call centre take down that my complaint is specifically about their company and Mastercard having no place policing the pornography I choose to pay for and interact with. Even posted about it on my personal social media that has family on it, but then everyone in my life has known I'm a horny perv since I first got a TV in my room as a kid and suddenly had easy access to all the softcore tiddies a youth at the turn of the millennium could possibly desire. 

(+2)

They started with "adult" content. And immediately included LGBT content that had no overt sex in it. Just because...

It's about control and authoritarian censorship. And once they take enough stuff down, you actually start making children, teens and women even more susceptible to attacks and real world effects.

(+6)

That's probably a better place to take our anger. Although to be honest I think the best move is to create some kind of buffer against anti-smut crusaders. This isn't the first time this has happened. They target every company and community where "adult" material is posted. 

(+2)

im blacklisting these losers and not giving them money anymore

Better still -- find alternatives and CUT UP THEIR nazi DIAPER-LICKING CARDS!  Censor their nazi money out of your wallet for EVERYTHING!  Fight back!!!

(+70)

Itch is the bad guy in this situation. It doesn’t matter that there is a worse party, Itch is throwing in the towel.

I won’t be purchasing anything here ever again.

(+23)

Well then be prepared no matter where you move this will keep happening. It's stupid to expect you can "stand up" to companies that are responsible of over most of the transactions in the entire world. You can't win against someone who can just take away your ability to earn money. 

(+30)

So the answer is just give up now?

What a terrible option, are you sure you’re not a troll or part of collectiveshout?

(+36)

No, the answer is to fight the payment processors and collectiver shout. Not Itch who is a fellow victim.

(+9)

Itch didn't need to take away customer's purchased copies of games they paid for.

(+10)

Give up? Heck no. It's better to actually invest in trying to make this issue more widespread in general public and try to push laws that would fight against that practice. People here have been posting some UK and US petitions, so if you can, sign one of them. If you are able to, reach out to people that could share this situation around and actually make politicians care. Heck, try making EU Initative if you are living in Europe and you are willing to work for the cause. Being angry on itch.io is anti-productive as this problem is widespread on every game hosting platform.

(+11)

They can't not "Throw in the towel", as you put it.

They can't maintain anything if all payment is cut off. No devs can make money from it if all payment is cut off. Nothing can be sold if all payment is cut off.

Itch simply doesn't have the funds to take a strong stand here. Especially not on their own.

The only real fix is for the whole system around payment processors to be completely redone. Make it a public, nationalized utility.

And, of course, shut down puritanical cults like collective shout.

(1 edit) (+3)

even steam could not fight back why you think itch can? Anyways both steam and itch can cave in for a bit and behind close doors be making plans to fight this. 

(+2)

Valve couldn't fight back because of the exact games being targeted on Steam - they were nsfw games with very specific themes. Fighting that would have been social suicide, which the payment processors (And the cults that own them) knew, which is why that one was much more targeted.

Valve might be able to fight back against a total nsfw ban. But we shouldn't rely on that, because they might just look out for their own bottom lines instead.

People need to fight back against puritanical cults and force the government to hold billionaires accountable. We can't expect capitalism to fix anything, only be happy when it sometimes does.

Deleted 77 days ago
(+5)

This is a childlike attitude. It doesn't matter if there is a worse party. Yes, it really does because they think they can get away with it.  You have to tell visa and mastercard that they can't get involved with media people use.  The reason this happened is because they threatened to stop processing orders to Itch. 

Purchasing here or not isn't the concern, the concern is where will they pressure next to remove what content because a religious group is spreading slander and lies about what is in the game   

(+3)

its literally just not their fault they are being forced to do this blame collective shout and the purchasing processors

Nooo! By you not purchasing any games the entire itch.io website will collapse (massive amounts sarcasam). You got to understand that itch.io is following the payment handlers rules because they absolutely have to. Itch risks loosing this website if they don't follow the payment handlers rules. The payment handlers are the only reason why itch.io and the developer community (who makes paid games) can earn money. They are the entire backend of all the payments.

And I'm sorry if your 18+ games which you purchased gotten taken down. Maybe it might be a good time to reflect on those purchases of 18+ games and your life if you're having to complain that much over multiple posts. Maybe try to get in a real relationship with actual human beings and not art drawn by them.

May be. Just keep in mind that itch still remains one of the best platforms from developer's POV, Also itch's fee is voluntary and depends on dev, so it gets like $0 sometimes. So unfortunately that are creators who might be actually punished by people moving out in the end.

(+38)

Really in the mood to firebomb a MasterCard office

(+65)

I agree that itch.io was forced to comply. But even with that, they did so without even a hint of protest. Try checking the sites front page—no protest banner, no anything. Their silence speaks volumes. They didn't even dare name VISA/MasterCard in their post, but instead refer to these two with the more passive term "payment processors" or "payment partners", and the post also try to downplay the whole thing with passive language like "we must prioritize our relationship with our payment partners and take immediate steps towards compliance." and "We are currently conducting a comprehensive audit of content to ensure we can meet the requirements of our payment processors." instead of just saying "we are busy deleting games"

(+3)

Check this and respond if you have the same opinion after reading: https://bsky.app/profile/torrent-empress.bsky.social/post/3luowfzohet2y

(1 edit) (+18)

Thanks, but I'm still of the opinion that this happen to comply with the demands of the "payment processors" (VISA/MasterCard). The post "Update on NSFW content". clearly state that this is the case.

(+1)

Yea definitely, it just might be way more complex than we initially have thought.

again I say even steam had to bend the knee. Where else would internet companies have money coming from? 

(+5)

Steam choose to bend the knee, true, but that doesn't mean they had to. Do you know of any businesses which has actually been blocked by VISA/MasterCard over this? Their strength lies in throwing their weight around discretely, without having to actually go through with it.

If Steam had just ignored them, I don't think they would actually have blocked Steam. Most likely, nothing would have happened. Steam is simply too big. But even if you don't believe that, can we at least agree that Steam is big enough to have done at least something? Posted a protest banner, anything? You assume good faith, believing Steam only bent their knee after a long and painful soulsearching, but another possible scenario is that Steam management simply not cared all that much, and chose complience.

Deleted 77 days ago
(+2)

"Do you know of any businesses which has actually been blocked by VISA/MasterCard over this?"

Do you know of any people who didn't hand over their wallet when someone held a gun to their head?

The payment processors hold a disgusting amount of power here, and most of their targets are far too small to fight back.

We can't rely on companies or websites to fix this shit because they'll be shut down as soon as they try. This is something the people need to fix.

Steam is very small and they can't sustain not being able to work when Visa/Mastercard just block them. You are just naive when you think steam can do anything about it. You can only complain to visa/mastercard and try to pressure goverment to pass law against that kind of thing or just contact goverment and tell them that visa and mastercard are abusing their power. 

(+28)

itch could have stood up and posted the information and addresses for mastercard, visa, and collective shout people instead of caving and tossing the people who made them under the bus but they didn’t.

(+6)

As people are already analysing the whole situation for a while, there is a chance they got a legal letter that required them to comply, 

which would in fact make em unable to do so without getting even more scrutiny.

(+3)

So the itchio devs should have fought these companies in the court rooms then instead of throwing their users under the bus.

(+2)

There's no legal threat here. It's literally just an ultimatum. "Do this or we shut off your money".

There's nothing they can fight against, because there's no laws saying payment processors have to work with them.

(+2)

So then there's also no reason itch.io and steam were being sued if that's the case and there's no laws broken here on either side. So they could have warned everyone before hand.

(+1)

Other forms of retaliation exist.

"You do X, we shut it all down. You don't do Y, we shut it all down"

(1 edit) (+2)

They shouldn't have given in at all.

(+1)

Coo. Entire site's gone forever then.

Wonderful, brilliant plan.

Now, instead of wasting your anger demanding nonsense, focus that anger on the cultists who are pushing this bullshit, not the cult's victims.

(+1)

You speak like you run your very own massive site, as if you're not just like me and have never done this.

You have been going through every negative comment here towards itchio.

As I said, the entire site would not go. That's why I said to downscale it, not accept new payments, stareta ccepting donations and crypto currencies. I'm no webdev but it doesn't seem like they really had no options here.

(+2)

I'm speaking as someone who understands the absolute fucking basics of economics.

A site with zero money (which is what would happen if they could not get paid by any means, which is what would happen with zero payment processors working with them) cannot operate. Because site operations takes money.

"Accept crypto and donations" is flat out not a real solution whatsoever. I've explained why before, but to summarize: Donations cannot pay game developers as much as they've legally earned, and crypto has never been viable as an actual currency for normal transactions - outside of one (1) singular pizza over a decade ago, it's still only used for buying illegal shit (which is still the overwhelming minority of its use) and gambling.

Also "every negative comment" is like. Just threads started by two people.

(+1)

It's going to take way too much time for the legal stuff to start and finish. It's better to cave in and then use sue them. 

How very defeatist of you.

(+24)

Itch.io still should have stood up to them even if it meant all payments being blocked. It is never ok to give into bullies. Giving in shows them they can get away with it and they will keep taking more and more away from you until there's nothing left.

Other people have already suggested crypto as a temporary option.


Also itchio taking away peoples purchased games is extra scummy. Not even steam did that.

(+6)

Stood up? How? Steam couldn't even do that and they were far bigger than itch.io ever was. That's a bit laughable. Unlike Steam though, itch.io had no internal control of what gets it and what not and also offered if I recall correctly mostly payment through US services (and every delay that would come with that), so they literally have to go nuclear to be able to comply like Steam, which will inevitably hurt them financially, especially since it's way smaller team than Steam ever was. It sucks but there is not much they can do until they make sure they comply, which means a lot of games will be gone for some time and some will never come back.

(+9)

How? Any way you possibly can. You or I don't know for a fact Stream couldn't have done anything as we don't work there and do not have access to their financials. If I were Steam I would go full elon musk and tell them to go f themselves (just like he did to the advertisers), then begin building my own payment processing infrastructure. Either that or by making my own crypto currency that doesn't rely on any other company.

(1 edit) (+3)

Notably, Twitter is still hemorrhaging money and is kept up solely because he's using it as a way to push actual nazi propaganda.

Probably not a good comparison there.

Crypto is also an objectively terrible option regardless. There's a reason that nearly all of its use is just for gambling.

(2 edits) (+1)

Any source of twitter haemorrhaging money? Seems to be doing fine. By comparison meta threads fell off, mastodon fell off, bluesky fell off. 

What nazi propaganda?

Crypto is not reliant on big banks and payment processor companies. So it is an actual solution.

(+1)

....The claims of white genocide? The literal praising of hitler?

(+1)

Show me these claims then.

(+1)

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/may/14/elon-musk-grok-white-genocide

Deleted 71 days ago
(2 edits) (+1)

Wild take in response to "The owner of twitter deliberately made its bot praise hitler and spout racist conspiracy theories, which is someone everyone fucking saw and only someone engaging in bad faith would deny that" but okay.

Also pretty wild that you're derailing the conversation like this. You on mastercard's payroll or something?

Moderator (1 edit) (+1)

Misleading and abusive posts are against itch.io's terms of service.

Deleted 71 days ago
(+1)

Mkay yeah we're done here. Not gonna keep arguing with someone spewing racist conspiracy theories

Moderator(+1)

Racism and misleading claims are against itch.io's terms of service.

(+4)

The problem is that leaves every dev in the position of not making any money whatsoever from itch.

It also results in the site being shut down within a couple months, because there's no way in hell they have the funds to actually maintain the servers and whatnot for terribly long without an actual cash flow.

(+1)

They could take steps to down scale the entire site until they could support it themselves with only their own funds, and possibly donations using cash or crypto. Though even here people who paid for their games should be able to play and redownload them.

(+3)

"Downscale the site" means kicking a lot more games off than just the ones they did.

And a site cannot be run through donations alone. Nor can gamedevs be paid through donations alone.

(1 edit) (+2)

No it doesn't. It means stopping all purchases on the site until you set up your own payment processor. No games would be removed. Unless you mean people who don't already own them not being able to buy them in the meantime.

They haven't tried it so you cannot say it can't work. Let's not act like some sites don't rely on donations. I'm not talking about paying devs while doing this, just paying for server costs.

(1 edit) (+3)

You are suggesting something along the lines of "Power went out? Make your own power grid that supplies your entire region!"

This is not a feasible solution for basically anybody.

Of literally every entity affected by this, to date, literally only Valve could maybe pull it off. Because it takes a fuckton of money, time (time you're making zero profits during), and getting a lot of banks to cooperate with you (which also takes a fuckton of the money you're rapidly losing).

(+2)

If I were a multi billion dollar business who depended on power grids? Yes I would start building my own.

(+1)

Okay but you are not worth hundreds of billions. And neither is Itch.

Focus your anger toward the puritanical cults.

(+2)

Nope. I will focus my anger on anyone who bends the knee. Like you appear to be doing. Instead of holding itchio accountable you defend them.

(+1)

Are you literally on that cult's payroll or something?

Can't imagine why else you'd be trying to redirect anger towards itch instead of the cults actually causing this

(+26)

Insane that a couple of American companies are in charge of payments in the entire world

(+10)

Yea and that isn't even limited to payments. Most of the electronics come from American companies. The world americanised itself a long time ago and we face consequences of that.

(+6)

Oh absolutely. Its really fucked.

Deleted 77 days ago

Well,not in China.We use wechat and Alipay here.We are not allowed to post NSFW on public website.BUT we can buy dlsite coin through Alipay.Maybe itch can do something in this place?

That is going to take long time. Steam and Itch are mostly paid by Visa/Mastercard. So it's not ganna work short term even you you wish otherwise right now they can only cave in for short term while working on solutions. 

(+4)

Itch isn't the bad guy they're just refusing to pay out to NSFW devs for "breaking TOS"

(+29)

It's not only NSFW games that are being shadow banned.  Penny Larcney Gig Economy Supervillian has no nudity or explict content.  It does however have progressive story lines on trans rights and it has been shadow banned.  This is being used to take down progressive content too, it's not 'just' about porn.  That's the fig leaf they are using to hit other targets.

(+22)

This. Anyone who thinks this is about "adult content" is foolish. That was just the easiest place to gain a foothold. Queer content bans are coming and far sooner than anyone is ready to admit.

(+20)

They are banning literally anything to do with trans people too. Just because it doesn't affect your privileged life other than NSFW doesn't mean the same is true about everyone.

(+5)

This is the real target, I think. The LGTBQ+ community. To those conservative groups who are leading the charge of these takedowns, “LGTBQ+ is porn and the most disgusting version of it”, too. This whole thing reeks of antitrans sentiment.

(+4)

It's not just LGTBQ+ and porn games, horror games are getting hit too. I hate how this is a right vs left thing. Both sides hate this cause both sides play video games.

(+3)

Visa, PayPal, MasterCard, discovery etc... gave them an ultimatum, if they don't act fast any money transfer becomes impossible if they can't pay no one nor receive any money, what would they do? We're just fucked

(+6)

End of the day, if capitalism is the argument for why itch.io gave up without a fight, it's also the reason I can comfortably say- tough luck, I'm taking my business elsewhere (permanently).

Reliability (and of course, having an actual product) is king, and in this case itch.io has demonstrated it is not a reliable platform - not for its devs, not for its consumers- and it has delisted games from peoples libraries, to boot. Why would anyone ever use a service after such a scandal?

And such a "merciless" capitalistic response is natural, as well. Why should customers or devs impacted feel any loyalty or solidarity towards the site which screwed them over in a big way?

(+20)

https://action.aclu.org/petition/mastercard-sex-work-work-end-your-unjust-policy

Please sign this petition from the ACLU, they have more teeth than other organizations and usually follow this stuff up with legal action.

(+17)

That leafo has bent the knee so quickly in front of payment processors it's supernatural.

These people have (steam, itchio, gog) tons and tons of money but they won't even try to retaliate together against that duopoly that is damaging their business.


Money money money. Cowards.

(+2)

Valve does. Itch and gog don't really have that much in terms of liquid assets.

Also keep in mind that they literally cannot pay developers if the processors shut them off.

(+28)

While itch.io is not the anti-trans, anti-porn pseudo-facist group that pressured the payment provider, they decided the throw all NSFW content creators under the bus without as much as a moments notice.

"Our ability to process payments is critical for every creator on our platform. To ensure that we can continue to operate and provide a marketplace for all developers, we must prioritize our relationship with our payment partners and take immediate steps towards compliance.

This is a time critical moment for itch.io. The situation developed rapidly, and we had to act urgently to protect the platform’s core payment infrastructure. Unfortunately, this meant it was not realistic to provide creators with advance notice before making this change. We know this is not ideal, and we apologize for the abruptness of this change."

We know this is not ideal, and we apologize for the abruptness of this change

Oh, you "apologize for the abruptness" - well all is good and fi.... Nope, this is still utter BULLSHIT - you just threw all NSFW under the bus, PERIOD.

Hope it was worth it, Itch.io - I considered you a good alternative to Steam, especially for all the niche, smaller games that would be hard pressed to find traction on Steam, but you managed to burn away all the goodwill in one big swoop. Good job - but look at the upsides, your payment provider will have sooo much less work to do now, since many people will no longer buy from you (including me)

(+5)

Itch.io isn't the first target, before they have been many more like Steam or certain japanese sites like DLSite. Saying that itch.io should somehow be even better than Steam, that despite being thousand times larger had to also comply, is quite unfair, especially considering they are way smaller and with way less people on board (and they sure don't have system to verify games that don't comply with processors in the first place, which they now have to install). So hey, moving to another site won't solve the issue, because any site will meet the same fate unless we act and do something about those payment processors. They will always have to cater because you can't fight over someone that literally decides if you are able to earn money or not, where Visa and Mastercard responds for most transactions in the entire world. Many more NSFW creators will be treated like that if we don't do something tangible instead of complain on each service that has to comply and pray that does something.

(+10)

Yes, they targeted other sites before, however
1) Itch.io's handing of "Oh, we shadowbanned everything NSFW without a moment's notice, sorry (lulz)" is just terrible and 2) Steam is bigger - but has far more "mainstream" games. Steam can easily shrug off losing the handful of NSFW games in favor of keeping the mainstream ones - Itch.io has many more smaller developers and many more NSFW games, so the stakes are different for them: NSFW content likely is a much bigger share than e.g. on Steam, so they should try to fight for that bigger piece, or at least not act in a way that will NOT burn all goodwill towards them (instead of how they did act)

(+6)

Yea, they definitely should be more professional in terms of the first point and that was always a thing before albeit we don't know how it looked on their end. Maybe they got an actual legal letter and they had to act fast? Some people already have been thinking if they didn't have something serious as a bonus that made them act faster: https://bsky.app/profile/torrent-empress.bsky.social/post/3luowy64rcl2y

Worth remembering that itch.io staff is small. They didn't have ways to check if games are breaking the rules or not and it was put on the users to potentially report those. Now that itch.io has been forced to get rid of certain NSFW games and they can't check it easily, the only thing they could do to comply and not lose a major way of paying developers on the site was to nuke everything and then try to potentially hire people to actually check that stuff or try to somehow do it on their own.

Responding to second point, I don't think they wanted to lose that pie either. For them it's way more of a big deal than Steam because they have been hosting NSFW games for so long but it's really difficult do to much if your own payment processors are literally against what you host and give you an ultimatum, which they shouldn't be able to do in the first place. That is the true problem that needs to be resolved, because otherwise it will keep happening and they will start leverage their power to censor something more than just controversial porn.

(+2)

Moving to another site won't solve the issue, but it will provide a deterrent to other companies doing the same.

And it will protect devs and customers from the risks involved with working with such an unreliable platform which instates blanket bans (and which removes much more than the bans, even) with no prior warning and even with the delisting of purchased titles.

(+2)

Provide a deterrent? I am sorry but I cannot agree. Companies will always choose survival over going bankrupt and closing down and that's basically what happens when you can't pay people. Users moving out to other platform will just make that one be next target in the future once it gets big enough, that's buying time more than anything. If payment processors and card companies mandated what can be sold with their services before, next will fall in the line because hosting content isn't a charity. Itch.io saved their asses first like any company would do, because NSFW content ain't the only thing they have to worry about.

(+11)

They made the wrong choice, IMO.  

They are going to haemorrhage users because of this. Players go where the games are. They're not going to stick around.  

I get that they're between a rock and a hard place, the problem is I don't think they quite understand that yet. Or, at least, they're hoping (uselessly) to avoid it.  
Without payment processors, they can't charge customers or pay devs. This is true. But without customers there's nothing to pay with.  

And they will lose customers over this. And lose word-of-mouth goodwill. This is going to hurt them. 

People will just move to whatever the next big thing is. Eventually the payment processors will get jumpy when things get too popular but it takes time to get up to critical mass.

Deleted 77 days ago
(+2)

It was throw one group under the bus or throw them all under it, because Itch has literally zero power here.

We cannot rely on companies or capitalism to fix this. This is something the people need to fix.

Billionaires should not get to decide our lives.

(+1)

You are a child that understand nothing. Think for a bit before you attack itch.io. I dare you to make company like Steam and Itch.io and try to stand up and get all your money blocked and go bankrupt in few months. Cause you were dumb to not comply. What you should instead do is cave in and then try to find way to fix it cause standing up will not help you at all since this will do the same exact thing that happened now. (cause they said they will block them so that would not change anything but make it worse for Itch.io)

(+4)

"You are a child that understand nothing"

Thank you for demonstrating on how to lose any argument in 7 words.

(+6)

NTR the husbands and wives of Collective Shout.

(+19)

Not being able to download games we bought before. Just scum behavior if you even delete the games from our libraries and act like they never existed. A sign to avoid this platform in the future for lack of support in general.

(+6)

Wait, they're actually removing already paid for downloads?

I seriously hope this ends in a class action and bankruptcy.

(+1)

sue visa and mastercard.

(+5)

I'm pretty sure this is lawsuit-worthy - at least for non-US users.

(+17)

I don't completely agree. Itch Io waited hours before anything what they had already done, not to mention they lied about not deleting games. They already deleted some games.

(+4)

If you have read https://itch.io/updates/update-on-nsfw-content, you'll see that there is no lie about them deleting games.

"Part of this review will see some pages being permanently removed from itch.io. Affected accounts will be notified via their account’s email address from our support address. You can reply to that email if you have any follow up questions."

I think we all need to be patient and understanding on the matter. It can be assumed that the situation was urgent and needed to be handled at haste. Even if it wasn't, it helps no one to criticize Itch for a situation people don't fully understand. The best you can do is ask for more information.

(+7)

The part you quoted is about the future review. That review hasn't happened yet, all they had said happened was shadow listing. Instead they have already deleted games. 

(+3)

I feel like focusing on the tense of that quote is arguing semantics more than anything. I don't see that as a lie, as much as it is improper wording.

(+7)

The post explicitly says that games have been hidden until review and the review will eliminate games. 

What has happened is that without notice some games have been deleted before the official review and no refunds have been organised. 

(+2)

Games have been hidden, and some are being eliminated, yes. This is an announcement to explain what's happening. It just came late. I don't see the lie here.

What do you define as the "official review?" Because to me, the removal of certain games that's been happening looks exactly like that.

(+7)

Agree to disagree. An honest comment would have been to say "we eliminated some games and shadow listed others, which will be reviewing. Contact A and B to receive a refund of you've not been contacted"

(+2)

It seems like this situation is ongoing. Maybe they're not prepared to handle refunds at the moment. It would be a lot cleaner to clear the review first, after all. I think the wording you used here is otherwise better, but I'm also okay with the way the announcement phrased it. I don't see it as dishonest.

(+14)

They absolutely are the bad people. They are the ones who acquiesced to the fascists. Not anyone else.

(+26)

No, fuck that. I recognize the threat is real, and that Itch can't afford to fight it. But also: the way that they've gone about this is horrible and absolutely deserves scorn and protest.

First, the fact that they just went ahead and did everything with no notice, and then didn't even tell anyone that they'd done it for hours until the opposition got loud enough to make a message. Developing situation? If you're going to throw a chunk of your userbase under the bus you had fucking well better get that message together before you do it.

Second, the fact that they used the tools that they'd designed for people to be better able to be part of their community to attack them. Every product that was listed 'adult', 'NSFW', 'erotica', or 'sensitive media' was delisted. Any product that didn't bother to list themselves as erotica is still up, untouched. Not only that, but the 'sensitive media' tag was one that Itch created and placed on products to make it easier for people to avoid them. They include a lot of products that aren't porn at all, but include themes of sexuality or queerness. The delisting goes an order of magnitude beyond what others have done to capitulate.

Even worse, the message says that they will be deleting items in the future, and that's a fucking lie because they started deleting things before anyone even knew there was a threat. 

And finally, creators of works that have been delisted or deleted are reporting that Itch has also supsended payouts to them, so they're also stealing money.

(+15)

Are you an idiot? Nothing about mastercard's pressure warrants instant removal of all these games with no notice. Furthermore, this *is* something itch could have fought. There is absolutely a bubbling tortious interference case or something to that effect that's going to come out of all of this one day.

(+2)

Itch fights it. The site is completely gone within a month because they can't afford upkeep because zero payments are allowed.

Genuinely begging people to focus their anger on the puritanical cults 

(+4)

You don't understand a thing about the law. There are laws actively preventing interfering with individuals in banking. Again. This is a suit waiting to happen, or more, a political smackdown. The Japanese are already starting to take notice of the attack and retaliate.

If they shut down *all* payments because they opened a suit, that would be ruinous for *mastercard* in court, not for itch. It's just a matter of whether itch can afford the suit itself.

(+1)

Which law, precisely, are you referring to? What jurisdiction?

(+1)

It's taking Japan a long time to do anything about it and it's for sure going to take Itchio and Steam a long time it's not worth for them to shutdown all payment process for months and years until they finish lawsuit. Or try to get laws in order. 

(+2)

The problem is that the 'cults' aren't ever going to change their minds.

Businesses though?  Businesses will do whatever profits them.

Take the fight to Paypal, Visa and Mastercard. That's where you're gonna get results.

(+2)

The businesses are run by the cults.

You can't get rid of cults fully usually, but you can get people out of them and generally weaken their influence

(1 edit) (+9)

I do not blame Itch for pursuing a no-NSFW policy. However, no matter how harsh the pressure from the payment processor was, Itch should have given creators enough time to explain the upcoming changes and how those changes would affect their projects and their customers. Itch unilaterally removed games that buyers had purchased from their libraries without any prior notice, seriously violating their rights — and even shifted all the responsibility and cleanup onto the creators.  This action clearly deserves blame.

Even if Itch had provided at least a one-week “evacuation period” through prior notice, Collective Shout would not have destroyed Itch. Deleting content in the middle of the night without any warning — That is truly cowardly and unjust behavior.

(+12)

They didnt have to do this, they are bad people

(+2)

Itch literally had to do this or the entire site was gone.

(+3)

Nah.  PayPal are not the only payment processors in the world.  If PayPal is refusing to allow artistic freedom, Itch needs to bring in a payment processor who allows them to do what's right.

(+1)

There's extremely few payment processors and they're all run by members of puritanical cults. Or just actual fascists who are using this to attack queer people (There's a reason that far right groups have been painting queer shit as explicit!)

"Find another payment processor" is just flat out not an option

(+2)

You're factually wrong.  There are payment processors who are down with nsfw content.  If that weren't true, nobody would be able to make cash on porn, which is very much not the case.  I'm already eyeballing DL Site as an alternative to this dumpster fire.

(1 edit) (+1)

Most of that is run quietly enough to not be noticed (and when it is, it gets fucked up hard - remember how OF tried to claim they weren't a sex site?) Or is funded run through alternative means (predominantly shadier ads, which nowhere near enough to actually pay devs).

If you happen to know of other payment processors that would actually work though, feel free to suggest them. I'd be happy to push for wider use for them.

(+2)

Itch.io is already seeking new payment processors.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/itchio-are-seeking-out-new-payment-processors-w...

So apparently they agree with me.  :)

(2 edits) (+1)

This is definitely good move but I am afraid it's only a temporary solution without some law changes, considering that while you can replace payment processor, you will likely still use Visa/Mastercard under the hood and by looking at Steam, those companies can still pressure you to do it their way. Plus you mentioned DLSite which has been exactly hit with the same thing and now a lot of the content is locked to japanese only consumer. 

(+2)

Pushing back against the Visa and Mastercard stuff may yet see results.  They're already taking stock hits.  For my part, I'm making complaints on the phone daily and I'm not the only one.  The more people raise a stink about this in the proper avenues, the more payment processors are going to have to contend with the fact that censorship is not going to benefit their profits.

(+1)

Oh yeah, definitely, the "louder" we are, the more power we have, so glad to hear that you are doing your part. Still would recommend also trying to push some legislation if possible (not everyone has that option but those who do should definitely use it), so that those companies won't be able to do so legally in the future. 

(+2)

Cool enough then. Hopefully they do find something that works better 

(+2)

Did you learn absolutely nothing from what literally every article said? If you're going to call people "bad people" you better actually have some evidence that multiple people from both perspectives can agree on.

(+7)

What happens next time when credit card companies say they won't take payment from websites that sell games with gay characters? Or games with violence? Or games with any cursing? If you cave in at the first sign of pressure, you're opening the door for something even worse in the future. Itch bowing down without putting up any fight, even going so far as to remove non-NSFW games that just featured gay people is a disgrace and they absolutely are at fault.

(+3)

Actually it's on the puritan association roadmap, games like GTA or Detroit : Become Human are namely targeted.

(+1)

What irks me is that they say it's about this game called "No Mercy." I can understand if the game itself violated the TAC on the site where it was posted, but even then, Itch and Steam could have just delisted THAT GAME. This is an extreme overreaction and has shown that outside companies and interest groups can bully them into dictating what consumers can legally and consentually consume with their own money. Yes, it is the payment systems and those who manage them that are at fault here. However, to give in to the pressure like this without warning makes it feel like they are just giving up without a fight. Most of the games that were delisted didn't violate the Terms; you need an account even to download NSFW games, which requires age verification; and we, as consumers, can either just not buy the game or, if it does violate something, report it. These creators have Freedom of Speech, and consumers, adult consumers at that,  have the right to make a legal and informed purchase. 

(+2)

I can agree with that: Itch is a victim, maybe not a martyr... but still a victim.

My enemy is all what allows to payment providers to choke our rights.

Even if we abandon itch, the same can happen anywhere else, and in future not only to games.

So we don't have to fight among us, but rather against our real enemies

(+7)

I disagree. Itch could have told Visa (or whoever else) to go pound sand and found a new payment processor. Paypal, Stripe, Venmo, Cashapp. Hell a crypto payment processor like CoinGate?

Taking down the game was a betrayal of their community. The whole purpose of Itch is to support indie devs. They let big brother stomp on one of their own.

They then went above and beyond that and basically shadowbanned their entire NSFW collection of games. That's not just bad, that's twirl-your-mustache villainous.

(+7)

The payment providers is the bad guy, yes. But Itch still runs this website, not a credit card company.

Itch made the decision to stomp on an indie dev because it was convenient for them to do so.

If they didn't, they'd be stomping on many more indie devs. If you want to call that convenient... sure, I won't argue with you.

(+5)

This won't be the end of it. Now that it worked once, they know it works and they're going to attack more games.

(+2)

Yes, absolutely, and we should prepare to fight back, not just for those at risk, but also those who have been affected.

Targeting Itch about this would be unproductive. That's all I'm saying.

(+2)

If Itch doesn't change payment processors then I think there is merit to abandoning Itch and starting up a new platform that uses crypto for payment.

(+2)

Fight back when Itch itself already gave up ^^

All indies will be stomped the moment daddy bankster and mommy puritan will demand it now.

Yeah, yeah, Itch aren't the bad guys, they just follow the orders, they had no choice, yadi yada... I heard that so many times before...

(+10)

Dude the fact they nuke all nfsw games it's enough to question the platform and even get angry. Yes, I understand they were pressured by paid platforms, but not even Steam did what itch.io did. They nuke all games Without thinking twice.

It's as if they took the easy way out, instead of reviewing the NFSW games on the platform. And if that's the case, it means  that the tedious reviews  that NFSW games go through before they're released have been useless all this time.

They didn't nuke all NSFW games. They're just hidden while they're reviewing games. Most of the games are still there, but you can't search them at the moment. You can, however, interact with the game's page via a link.

(+3)

"They're just hidden while they're reviewing games"that's exactly what I mean with nuke.  I know that most games are still here. But the fact But the fact that they were all hidden is questionable at best. Do previous itch.io reviews hold no weight? Were all the NFSW games previously reviewed by itch.io allowed without proper authorization? or itch.io just took the easy way out and hide/nuke all games (That's not counting the games that were permanently removed.).

Well, first of all, hiding content is a very detached concept from "nuking" it.

Second, this situation is more complicated than that. With the pressure from payment processors, Itch needs to be more careful. Many of the games being targeted and removed are done so based on some of the fetishes associated with them. This is due to Collective Shout, a puritan group that has been influencing payment processors to disallow content they disagree with from being sold.

I would assume that NSFW games being hidden is being done in order to protect themselves and developers while they sort everything out with said payment providers.

(+3)

First, dude you're really arguing about the definition of nuke? i hope you know that the term "nuke" real definition is different from what you and i are using it. and the way you and i use it is more in line with the "urban" use of it.

second, my point still stand. Are you consciously or subconsciously ignoring the fact that Steam went through the same pressure and didn't decide to "nuke" all adult games? 

Again, is incredible to think that the previus itch.io system of reviewing games don't have any weight, and they have to resort to hiding/nuke all the nfsw games.

(+1)

I am arguing against the use of the word. When people hear about something getting "nuked", they assume people mean that it got deleted, which is not the case here. The clarification is important to avoid blatant misinformation. The literal definition does not matter.

Your insistence to use the word feels like a rhetoric intentionally for the purpose of antagonizing Itch.

Itch and Steam are not the same. Steam is owned by Valve. Itch is indie. There are plenty of ways this could change how each handles moderation. Truthfully, I don't know how they function, but I don't expect that you do either. If I am correct to expect that, I believe it is unreasonable to criticize Itch for a situation you do not understand. Moreover, I feel like your frustrations are misplaced and that they should be directed toward those that have forced this decision to be made in the first place.

With all that said I'm done. This has been a headache.

(+3)

First, you don't decide how I speak/express myself. If there's any confusion with what I say, I'm willing to explain myself. Now again, this isn't the same as you telling me how I speak, especially when my way of speaking is valid (it's incredible that you're ignoring the actual definition of nuke to maintain your narrative).

Second, based on your second paragraph, it seems you have no idea how itch.io moderation works. I have a surprise for you. I do have an idea, because I'm a developer of NSFW games on this platform, and every game that enters itch.io goes through a review before being indexed.

Every NSFW developer who wants to publish a game here has to follow a number of strict rules before appearing in searches. And even then, they have to promote their game independently because itch.io doesn't offer much support for small developers.

So, after all those reviews, to find that itch.io decided to hide all the NFSW games without taking into account all the rules they previously established is at least questionable.

Dude, it's incredible that you're so confident about something without any information on the subject.

(+2)

Heck, I was tempted to give in and respond to this properly for a moment.

You're not worth arguing with. Pretend like you got me, or whatever makes you feel good about yourself.


(+4)

They're not just "hidden," they have been and are continuing to be yeeted into the void.

(1 edit) (+2)

we should all make games that claim to be sexual but have absolutely 0 sexual .. or like pretend like food is sexual or something.

... like people say cars are sexy ....

(+2)

Itch should have given a hint, with some time to be prepared, not just a sudden punch...

(+12)

“Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it.”

Mark Twain

(1 edit) (+12)

If itch.io was on our side, then they would give clear directions to everyone on the site how to fight this. I.e. which petitions to sign, who to contact, how to get our voices heard. Did we get that? No. We got a spineless response that they're "cleaning up shop" (i.e. throwing the baby out with the bathwater).


So is itch the good guys? Are they on our side? No. We got a single emoji announcement from them on discord. Well I've got one for you too, itch.

(+10)

"Itch is not the bad guy in this Situation." ...they're just carrying out orders....

the Nazi soldier defense, classic.

(+3)

this is why these sites should start integrating other payment options like upi, there's no way in hell any retarded lobyist group can pressure all upi service providers

(+1)

No it is.

(+6)

Since this is action is a proxy attack on human rights of LGBT+ community - compliance with it makes you a bad guy. 

(+6)

Itch IS the bad guy.

They could have gone crypto or something else. But that would give them less profit I guess.
But at the very least they could have people keep games they paid for.

(+8)

zero resitance, borderline obeying in advance

stop defending the poor poor assholes that readily chose to do this the moment it was demanded

(+5)

What's fascinating is the fact that Itch and its defenders actually think that censorship will stop here.

Hope you're ready for Itch being an off-brand Steam ^^

I wonder how many month before Itch become the Tumblr of video games.

(+5)

Let's start mass reporting bible games, considering that Holy Bible features rape and incest themes in it. 2 can play this game, you zealots

CALL THEM. Do not e-mail them. They'll just scrape it for keywords and let an AI give a canned answer.

(+4)

I think we've lost sight of how we can fight back. Here are the links to the petitions. PLEASE SIGN!

Tell MasterCard, Visa & Activist Groups: Stop Controlling What We Can Watch, Read, or Play https://chng.it/b2pMbsLvdg

Mastercard: Sex work is work. End your unjust policy https://action.aclu.org/petition/mastercard-sex-work-work-end-your-unjust-policy

UK: The scope of the Online Safety act is far broader & restrictive than is necessary in a free society. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/722903

(+3)

Call Payment processors and take as much time as possible (This is the solution).

The reason phone call complaints are effective with these payment processor companies is because it takes up valuable time that the company could be otherwise dealing with other issues.  Phone support is expensive and slow, which makes it an ideal pressure point  A large public outcry is what causes companies to pay attention and consider backtracking.

Make a script about why this is bad (payment processor companies shouldn't be censoring legal material because they personally think it's immoral and it's an attack on free speech - you can ask AI to create a script for you if you don't have to time to write a long message) then call VISA/MasterCard/STRIPE/Paypal, you'll be on hold for a while because everyone is calling, and say you'd like to lodge a complaint.  Then when they ask what this is in regards to, just start reading your script.  The longer the better since that's the point.  We essentially have to keep this up for the next few weeks if we want something to happen.  We don’t need to be aggressive - just persistent. Keep the pressure on and call every few days, or every day if you care about this issue.

The following link has all the contact information you need to call them:

https://10kphonecalls.com/

Service reps will now try to quickly escort you to "e-mailing" instead once they realize you're complaining about itch and Steam's recent censorship - try to just keep them on the line.  In one call when they attempted to do this, I simply asked, "Are phone call complaints reported to your company or not?" and they just kept repeating "You must e-mail _________" - I was like, "You're not answering my questions, do you report them or not?" and eventually they transferred me to a supervisor who was really awesome to talk to and spent a long time talking to me..  Asking them about why companies are attempting to ban legal content is also a good question that they can't answer but will keep them on the line for a while.

(+3)

Itch is mostly to blame. They bent the knee. There's are multiple ways around things. It takes time, yes. However, they could have easily said that they were looking into alternatives and would not delist games. Now, not only are they losing game developers and customers but people won't trust them again. Even if people find it annoying to host on another site, they will do it. Itch isn't like Steam. There are plenty of other sites people can host their games. The payment processors will back track eventually. It has nothing to do with the type of games. It's the censorship. If people think they are going to stop at NSFW games, they are wrong. It's already going past that.  Visa and Steam has already been bombarded by calls and emails so much that their support staff is overwhelmed. When things do get backtracked, it won't matter for Itch. The damage is done. Steam will be fine. Itch won't recover.  Hope it was worth it.

(+2)

Itch is bad and evil. Fuck you itch

Don't blame this on "Payment provider"/"Payment Facilitator, simply get a new PF if the current PF creates problems. Mastercard and Visa are bad but as far as I know are only trying to enforce USA style "child porn" laws on foreign countries (yes they are that bad). MC and Visa have not banned adult contents, this is an issue with the current PF, see GBPP (Global Bran Protection Program or such), BRAM (Brand Recognition ...)  programs by Visa/MV to see what MC and Visa officially currently accepts. What MC/Visa accepts if more or less -> local law - CP unless CP ban breaks local law (probably). 

Finding a new PF should fix the issue, and there should be many PFs out there that do adult contents, especially contents not featuring actual real people like drawn images. I can try to see if I can find a PF to give ITCH a call but this situation is the fault of ITCH not finding an alternative PF, and mostly not the fault of MC/Visa.

That being said there is a lot of unofficial rules implemented by PFs  but those should be possible to navigate by ITCH.

(+3)

Love seeing all of this after it got revealed that itch in fact could have switched payment processors at any time and chose not to until now.

(+1)
if you are EU citizen please reach out to cab-mcgrath-contact (at) ec.europa.eu here is sample text: Hello, I am disturbed by the situation around digital marketplaces Steam and itch.io who provides services in EU. As a customer I feel impacted by this issue when australian activists group is making demands to censorship the marketplace worldwide and abuses payment processor companies to this. That it is not a single excess of credit card companies documents the following: In past similar situation already unfolded many times when credit card companies tried to prevent legal transactions https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/12/visa-and-mastercard-are-trying-dictate-what-you-can-watch-pornhub> https://www.newsweek.com/why-visa-mastercard-being-blamed-onlyfans-banning-explicit-content-pornography-1621570> In case of Steam and itch.io it is about adault games of fiction when no harm is done to a living being because the characters are virtual. In case of steam the censorship is around hundreds of legal games. And for itch.io the censorship resulted in taking down more then 17.000 adault games and few more thousands of NSFW games with a totla of more then 20.000 legal games censored. I am disturbed that payment processor can act as a censor of legal transactions for the EU member country. Similarly as Holy Bible is freely available with the desciption of incest should these games for adaults remain available. Similarly as is film Irreversible 2002 with graphic role played rape scene of actress Monica Belluci should the adault games remain available. To my understanding from publicly available sources and limited access to evidence the companies in question acting as self proclaimed censors are: Visa, MasterCard, PayPal, Stripe and possibly more. requesting censorship on world wide market including EU. This seems to me as a case of dominant market force discriminatory trade practice.
(+1)

If Itch is reading this, what about creating a separate company and website with the same code as itch.io where only cripto is accepted as a payment method? Then everybody that hates Visa and Mastercard (both customers and creators) could just move there.