itch.io

He is NOT a villain. (Villains are fucking badass in their own ways. Kefka Palazzo. Luca Blight. Senator Armstrong. Baramos. Lavos. Et cetera.) Calling him a villain is giving this fucking piece of shit far more credit than he deserves. He's a scumbag asshole and we need to figure out what we can do to stop his censorship plans.

Trump isn't doing shit that would help us. This has nothing to do with Visa, Mastercard, AMEX, Discover, PayPal, Skrill, Stripe, Dwolla, et cetera. They are not banks, credit unions, or unspecified "financial institutions." They are wallets and payment processors, which are different beasts entirely. This is another bullshit movement to make sure Trump, his companies and other assholes can keep their money in whatever accounts they want to and cannot be denied opening new accounts. Politicians have never given a flying fuck about normal people and they never will. 

Because tons of people have misconceptions about NSFW, adult and 18+ as they include far, far more than just porn. 

And even if it was just porn, since Itch isn't geared at children in any way and porn doesn't hurt anyone in the first place.

I am still against the idea. Not only is it overly complicated, but you just admitted that there is a probability of dishonesty and inaccuracy. Probably extremely high, if you're talking about volunteers. Which is yet another reason why indies should not be given the same treatment as anything commerical. 

Plus, once again, every developer who has ever listed something here will still be waiting for the end  of the world, since all of the games and other media would have to be removed, played/read/looked at, reviewed (probably with a great deal of bias,) rated (with most likely a large amount of inaccuracy, and dishonesty) and then be listed again.

So, still no support at all from me.

This isn't something that would work at all. Not only are ratings subjective, someone would have to play through every single game listed and rate each one in a logical manner, which would cause another massive issue, like having every single game taken down until Hell (or Naraka, or the Abyss, or whatever underworld you prefer) freezes over, that way they can all be rated. Then, we might as well be waiting for the Apocalypse, because they have to be put back up again, after all.

You've also got to take non-game media that's hosted here into consideration as well. Who's going to rate all of that? How much longer will it make the backlog for things that need to be rated?

And then, if you get the ERSB involved, who the hell is going to pay $1500 per item to get it rated? Especially considering that all media on the site would have to be rated-- and you cannot ask people who make free things to pony up $1500+ to get their things rated so they can be hosted here.

So yeah, no, something like this just ain't gonna fly.

Right now, something like this really doesn't seem feasible, not since Visa, Mastercard, PayPal and Stripe are the ones who jumped on the bangwagon fiasco to try and fuck everyone over.

You might need to see if you can contact Leaf or any other staff members directly, since it sounds like we  (we, as in game developers) could definitely use you to get shit back to the way it should be around here! 

Seeing as I have completely overlooked this thread, here we go: My real name is irrelevant to anything, call me Null.  I am 1337% fine with adult content of all kinds and I despise censorship of any sort.

That's downright contradictory, considering that you said you prefer games with only a "little bit" of blood and gore.

Are you retracting your statement to now  be fine with  things such as: kidnapping, murder, profanity, religious horror, torture, eldritch horror, slashers and more? If so, there's no reason at all to say you want 18+/NSFW/adult games removed. Which is something I would be incredibly grateful for you understanding.

This site is not meant to be family-friendly. It is meant as a place for indie game developers to host their games.

Just because you do not like something (and you would try to further censor games with your own opinion regarding things that might be considered "offensive" or "disturbing," not to mention you claim you prefer games with only "a little bit" of blood and gore) does not make you the morality police, nor does everyone think the way you do.

If it bothers you that badly, why not make your own platform, where you can host all of the family-friendly kid games you want, without having to worry about anything that might somehow offend you, if you tilt your head and squint?

I am not looking for a pirate site, either.

I am working on a dark fantasy RPG that has numerous elements of horror and controversy. No, the demo is not ready yet and no, I will not be charging anything for it, not even when the game is complete. However, because of what I am including in it,  there are many reasons that, even if I were to make a page for it here to post devlogs and the like on, there's a possibility that it would be taken down, since I do plan on at least using the "18+" tag, as it would fall somewhere between NC-17 and R, if we were talking movie ratings.

While I am very glad to see that there are people who either want to, or are currently trying to make, platforms for paid games of a more elicit nature than mine, I honestly don't think what I'm working on would fit on one of them, even if they weren't all for paid games.

 I also do not believe my game is the only one that has the potential of falling through the cracks and vanishing into the void, because of the fine line it walks.

So, I'm wondering: is there currently, or is anyone working on, an alternative platform that does not run on cryptocurrency, that a WIP game like mine could potentially be posted on?

It really isn't fair, right, or cool for crypto-bros to try and use this situation as a way to shill cryptocurrency, which is not the answer in any way, shape, or form. Being opportunistic, rather than helping us fight back, doesn't solve anything.

FUCKING EXACTLY!

It shouldn't matter for shit, but: I am an asexual female game dev who isn't exactly white. I've got a WIP game that, even though it doesn't  have ANY sexual content at all, it is very adult and because, despite it being a dark fantasy RPG, it has many elements of horror, including kidnapping, murder and fantasy religious horror. Because those are only three  of the many, many things in it that are far from kid-friendly, or could be called "controversial" with how blatantly vague the new terms here are, there is a very real likelihood that, even if I were to make a page for my game here, despite the demo not being ready yet and the fact that it will be a free game, the page could easily be at risk of being yanked. Because it is not intended at all for children.

When I was in my twenties - early thirties (I am in my forties now,) I wrote porn for a living, professionally. No, I did not act in it, nor was I a chat agent, I wrote hardcore, softcore and fetish porn. NO ONE MADE ME DO IT. I did it because I like writing and have no problem at all with pornography.  (Plus, the pay was very good.) I am FAR from being the only woman alive who has ever written smut because I wanted to. 

NO ONE has the right to dictate what an adult can read, watch, or  play, as long as it isn't unquestionably,  blatantly illegal.  We do not live in the Victorian ages any longer-- who has the right to say we aren't capable of making up our own minds, knowing what we do or do not like, what we aren't comfortable with, or anything of the sort?  We are more than capable of making our own decisions and sure as fuck don't need someone to try and "protect" us from shit!

Nah, not at all. Itch isn't intended for kids, even if you want it to be. Kids' games should be yeeted into the great unknown of another website, if  you want to separate games that badly.

I  do not agree with you whatsoever.

To begin with, "adult" content is anything and everything that children should not see. "NSFW" means anything that you would not play while you're in an office. This does not only incorporate porn, especially not with how damnably vague Itch's terms are. And how they are removing  ("delisting" or "shadowbanning" as they put it) games (including free games) that have controversial content of any sort. Yeah, supposedly, this is for an "audit" or "review."

BUT! Collective Shout has gone after "Detroit: Become Human," which is an AAA+ game that includes adult content. They went after it, despite the fact that it does not glorify the situations that children and women characters are put in.

Not to mention that games that have LGBTIAQ++ devs or characters are being impacted.

I know I'm going to get backlash for this, but fuck "wholesome" games (and seriously fuck children's games for that matter)  if you think removing adult material is the way to go.  Itch is not meant for strictly "family-friendly" games.

Weird games, horror games, romance games, games with anything and everything that could be considered "controversial" if you tilt your head and squint really hard are not safe right now.

For the average indie dev who is trying to create a game that isn't aimed at children, or does not incorporate the delicate sensibilities of a Victorian nun, we are going to be silenced and stifled by the censorship. 

This was surprisingly good-- the ending is something that more people seriously need to pay attention to!

It's funny (in a "what the fuck" way) to see how many people (elsewhere included) seem to have such narrow minds. It doesn't matter if you claim to be a parent, an educator, or hell, a hamburger.  There is far, far more to adult content than just porn and anyone who makes a game with adult content of any sort is clearly in jeopardy, considering how nebulous Itch's new terms are.

Itch is not and should not be centered around children! It is for indie game devs and I'll be fucked before I work on a game aimed at anyone under the age of eighteen.  (That does not mean I am a pornographer, by the way. Horror is NC-17 and Rated R, after all, as it has adult content.)

Censorship is NEVER OKAY and just because you think you can appoint yourself as part of the "Morality Police," it does NOT mean your point of view is the end-all, be-all to everything.

Capitol One JUST obtained Discover, which could potentially be in our favor:

https://investor.capitalone.com/news-releases/news-release-details/capital-one-completes-acquisition-discover

American Express can be pains in the ass, but they are definitely a potential alternative payment processor.

Other alternative processors are:

GoCardless https://gocardless.com/guides/posts/open-banking/

Square https://squareup.com/us/en

Dwolla https://www.dwolla.com/

Adyen https://www.adyen.com/

Heartland https://www.heartland.us/

CardX https://cardx.com/

Helcim https://www.helcim.com/

PaymentCloud paymentcloudinc.com

Tipalti https://tipalti.com/

Revolut https://www.revolut.com/en-US/

Deel https://www.deel.com/

Remitly https://www.remitly.com/

Hyperwallet https://www.hyperwallet.com/

Skrill https://www.skrill.com/en-us/

Oceanpayment https://www.oceanpayment.com/

Dots https://dots.dev/

Zenpayment https://zenpayments.com/

This isn't an exhaustive list by any means, as there are many others.

Also, contact as many of these gaming press contacts as you can.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fEKLQNs2bWeMsHGZ33L-R1Y_FzUgg1sIwr3yTAJi6w0/edit?gid=0#gid=0

Here are over 150 gaming press contacts. US and international.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fEKLQNs2bWeMsHGZ33L-R1Y_FzUgg1sIwr3yTAJi...

We have extremely limited time now, apparently. Write these people and let them know what the Collective Shits are doing to us. Spread the contact list as far and wide as you possibly can. Get everyone you know to contact them regarding the situation.

Here are over 150 gaming press contacts. US and international.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fEKLQNs2bWeMsHGZ33L-R1Y_FzUgg1sIwr3yTAJi...

We have extremely limited time now, apparently. Write these people and let them know what the Collective Shits are doing to us. Spread the contact list as far and wide as you possibly can. Get everyone you know to contact them regarding the situation.

There are over fifty payment processors, including Dwolla. It wouldn't be had for them to find a payment processor for us US devs.

About GoodCompany (including their e-mail address), the company that financially supports the Collective Shits:

https://www.reddit.com/r/visualnovels/comments/1m8btlo/its_time_to_take_action_against_collective_shout/

Here is some anti-censorship campaign materials (from voiddebris.bsky.social‬) that might help us, since it has templates, phone numbers, e-mail addresses and other information:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MNAdVCogC14dinW4OCnzNX1JkhJdTmUIStzvSROChjo/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.is6wig4rp8vp

More resources:

https://yellat.money/

https://stop-paypros.neocities.org/

https://www.reddit.com/r/lewdgames/comments/1m98dy0/here_is_how_we_fight_back_10k_phone_calls/?share_id=xrQH27m5vWPU0XdKqMqZc&utm_content=1&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1

Some information/insight regarding payment processors:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/1m9rzjk/context_payment_provider_actions_from_somebody/

UK Petition:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/722903

US Petition:

https://www.change.org/p/tell-mastercard-visa-activist-groups-stop-controlling-what-we-can-watch-read-or-play?recruiter=810776890&recruited_by_id=25f63e60-afac-11e7-930f-77307e7da1dc&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_term=psf&utm_medium=copylink&utm_content=cl_sharecopy_490659394_en-US%3A8

In light of what's going on right now, that "unspeakable" tag doesn't seem as humorous or irrelevant as they might think it does. 

Here are some more resources:

About GoodCompany (including their e-mail address), the company that financially supports the Collective Shits:

https://www.reddit.com/r/visualnovels/comments/1m8btlo/its_time_to_take_action_a...

Here is some anti-censorship campaign materials (from voiddebris.bsky.social‬) that might help us, since it has templates, phone numbers, e-mail addresses and other information:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MNAdVCogC14dinW4OCnzNX1JkhJdTmUIStzvSROChjo/...

More resources:

https://yellat.money/

https://stop-paypros.neocities.org/

https://www.reddit.com/r/lewdgames/comments/1m98dy0/here_is_how_we_fight_back_10...

Some information/insight regarding payment processors:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/1m9rzjk/context_payment_provider_actions...

UK Petition:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/722903

US Petition:

https://www.change.org/p/tell-mastercard-visa-activist-groups-stop-controlling-w...

AND another issue that we're now facing is fucking Visa and Mastercard decided to update their TOSes to include non-sexual violence and gore in their prohibited content lists. At this point, we are BEYOND fucked.

Yeah, THAT was exactly what I was worried about. I was hoping I had interpreted that line wrong, but based on "non-consensual content" being extremely generalized... son of a fucking bitch. The game I'm working on is a dark fantasy with many horror elements. Which includes, among other things: murder, kidnapping, combat (including boss fights,) characters being pushed into situations beyond their control, imprisonment, fantasy slavery (NPCs owned by other NPCS,) gladiatorial-style combat and far more. None of which is consented to.

GREAT to know (yes, that is extremely sarcastic) that RPGS of any sort can now get the banhammer, over absolutely nothing that has bothered anyone since RPGs were first conceived.

Also, we need you to come forward with a considerable amount of elaboration, considering other "adult" and "NSFW" content.  I (and everyone else) understands that the biggest hit is to erotica, hentai, porn and other explicit content. 

HOWEVER, you are withholding other information that is CRUCIAL for developers to be made aware of. Your not-so-subtle threat in your updated FAQ to arbitrarily ban adult/NSFW games and creators does not clarify anything. 

You are very clearly aware that sex isn't the only thing that can be deemed NSFW or "adult." People who are working on adult-oriented games now NEED to know what kind of content will get their non-sexual, yet adult-oriented game yeeted into the void with wild abandon. Where do you draw the line? WE ARE UNDER ATTACK BY A GROUP OF TYRANNICAL RELIGIOUS PRO-CENSORSHIP NUTS.  

What ELSE will cause us to get slapped across the face by the banhammer?  Telling us "you can't say, because it's too hard" isn't an answer at all and you're just pissing people off by being as intentionally opaque as you are.

The thing about Steam is: they're huge. It doesn't really hurt them if they decide to yeet even a few hundred titles into the void. Corporations are like hydras: they can sever one of their heads and still survive, despite the backlash they get for what they've done. 

There are well over fifty payment processors out there, including Dwolla, that Itch could use, rather than going through PayPal, PaySafe and Stripe. (Visa, Mastercard, AMEX and Discover are different entities.) Many payment processors like them utilize direct bank-to-bank transfers. There are payment processors  out there that accept adult content-- and they are not shifty, nor are they cryptocurrency (which is an extremely bad idea to use in the first place.)  

Nope, I do not think they would have given anyone a heads' up, if they could have. Many companies have pulled fast-and-dirty changes in the past and they will continue to do so in the future (Companies as a whole will continue to make fast-and-dirty changes with little to no notification. It's what they seem to do more often than not.) 

Other people have made it known that this has been going on since at least April. Two months is more than enough time to let everyone know that shit was about to roll downhill.'

They could have easily posted ways that developers and game purchasers could take action. They could have made their own petitions. They could have posted advance warnings. There are many things they should have (and could have) done.

Until and unless Itch makes a statement that they have been fighting back, have been attempting to fight back, or are trying to mount a defense against what's going  on, I am firmly of the belief that they are no more innocent of wrongdoing than their overlords and the pile of shit censorship group.

Yeah, I agree with you completely. It looks like they're just starting to update their new terms, as far as I can see. But holy fuck, I don't like where this is going. Especially since they state  "It’s almost impossible to come up with an exhaustive list of unacceptable products to sell, so often we have to take content reviews one at a time. "

Fucking come on. If this is at the whims of the God-King Payment Processors and Lord Dictator Collective Shout, then they sure as hell can pony up and tell everyone exactly what cannot be published here. 

Seems like an arbitrary warning that they can and will pull any game that might offend someone in some minor way, if you squint your eyes and tilt your head a little bit, after beating your head into a brick wall.

Yeah, it does look like most mythology will be rejected, including biblically-based content.  It's also funny (in a "WHAT THE FUCK" way, not a "haha" way) that, while they're yeeting NSFW/adult games into the void that have no sexual content, but they're not posting anything about non-sexual nsfw or adult content. 

They're not just "hidden," they have been and are continuing to be yeeted into the void.

HAHA What a fucking lie that ended up being!

No shit! My grandmother wasn't as much of a prude as the assholes in charge are. If they took their dementia or alzheimer's meds, maybe hit the bong and got laid, they'd realize all they're doing is manufacturing issues because they think good Victorian children will still swoon and get the vapors because some girl flashed her ankle or wrist.

YES. They absolutely do have the resources to fight back: they are a company, which means they have their own legal team and they do make a considerable amount of profit based on everyone who purchases games and game creating resources from this site. They can easily fight back, launch suits, switch payment processors-- there are many outlets that a company such as this one can take. Especially considering how many game developers who have suddenly basically been defamed and seriously harmed by having their games shadowbanned.

I am going to preface this by stating that: there is far, far more to "adult" and "NSFW" content than just a bit of sexual content, or porn-- and there's not a damn thing wrong with porn or sexual content to begin with.  EVERYONE fucks (or has fucked) and everyone over the age of sixteen has watched porn at least once--  and there's no harm in it at all.

Banning games (even if you're denying banning them and calling it "delisting" them for the sake of trying to cover your ass) is nothing more than blatant, draconian censorship. 

• The prohibition is long gone. 
• We do not live in Orwell's book, "1984." 
• We do not cater to the whims of dictators.

You claim that you have "no choice," which is nothing but a blatant lie. I don't give a flying fuck what Visa, Mastercard, American Express, Discover, Moneybookers, Payoneer, Stripe, Skrill, or any of the other payment processors do: they are not the end-all, be-all slaveowners that control what indie game developers (or an indie game hosting company) can host on their site.

 Censorship groups are fucking bullshit and Itch.io could easily go after them in turn, as Itch.io clearly does make a profit on the games that they allow to be sold-- which means they can launch a suit against "Collective Shout" for damaging their company and the artists on the site. There are probably tons of ways Itch.io could strike back against "Collective Shout," if they had the balls to protect their game developers from this unjust nonsense.

IF what you said about "delisting" games to satisfy your corporate overlords was true, you would have no reason at all to "delist" free games that have so-called "objectionable" content. AND keep in mind that, again,  "adult" content is such a fucking broad term that games that SHOULD NOT be caught in the crossfire are being jacked for NO reason.  

Horror games, romance games, psychological games, games with strong language, or anything that could potentially be hit with an "NC-17" or "R" rating do not seem to be safe from the bullshit that's going on, if they happen to have the "adult content" label. Adult content involves ANYTHING that minors should not play, read, or watch. 

Murder mysteries and noir can be considered "adult." Any and all genre of horror can be labeled "adult." Mafia games can be labeled "adult." Any game that includes drinking, gambling, narcotics (even purely fantasy narcotics like those in Lewis Carroll's "Alice in Wonderland") can be considered "adult content." Profanity, kidnapping, murder, gore, psychological horror, true crime, police dramas, political content-- hell, even cleavage and skimpy clothing can be labeled "adult content!" 

"NSFW content" covers the exact same fucking things-- you're not going to play a horror game while you're at work, especially if it might potentially  offend someone in your workplace in some way.

...AND we have to supposedly wait and see what our almighty God-Kings, Visa and Mastercard, decide to allow Itch.io to host?! Give me a fucking break. 

This  reeks of politics and puritanical religious tyranny. 

• Games are art. They are not political pawns.
• Games are art. They are not to be subjected to the whims of religious nutjobs.
• Game developers are artists. Religion and political matters do not apply to us.

"Our ability to process payments is critical for every creator on our platform. To ensure that we can continue to operate and provide a marketplace for all developers"

This statement is now nothing but a bald-faced lie. "EVERY creator" includes those who create games with NSFW, adult, or objectionable content. "ALL developers" means the exact same. And yet, you are alienating and essentially exiling or shunning game developers whose games include content that  some rando fucking child shouldn't play.  Well done!

You might as well rebrand Itch.io to "Childrens' Games R US: Barney The Purple Dinosaur Edition!" 

I'm a game developer. I'm making a dark fantasy game that has many instances of "adult content," including numerous horror elements. I now see that the likelihood of me posting it here when the demo is finished and playable has diminished considerably, as it would likely end up being "delisted" or shadowbanned,  simply because my game could be considered "NC-17" or "Rated R." At this point, I don't know where it will be hosted when I'm ready to host it somewhere, but considering what you've decided to do in order to satisfy the whims of corporate greed, I'll probably end up having to find somewhere else. Or making my own site and blasting it all over the Internet.

This shit fucking sucks.

WHAT THE FUCK? There's not a fucking thing wrong with game developers fighting back against blatant draconic censorship.

 The fucking prohibition is long over and we do not live in Orwell's 1984. This shit's purely political and politics have no place in art or games. There's not a fucking thing wrong with controversy, porn, horror, or anything of the sort. Petitions probably won't solve a damn thing, but there's got to be ways to stand up to the spineless fuckers.

HAHA "Wait?" That seems like the lamest non-explanation to give a developer~! Considering that their game DID (not "might have," but DID) get added to the draconic, spineless shadowban for no reason at all, it makes me SERIOSLY WONDER  how many completely harmless games with horror, psychological, or other non-sexual adult content this site has decided to shadowban for "reasons." Fucking pathetic and unacceptable to not fight back against censorship on a site that was made for indie game developers. What this site has done is completely unfair, unjust and downright Orwellian. You're favoring stupid censorship groups and corporations over your own creators, which is absolutely disgusting and uncalled-for.

This is complete bullshit, we do not live during prohibition and this is crossing the line into Orwellian territory. I wrote actual softcore, hardcore and fetish porn for a living for seven years when I was in my twenties (I am in my forties now.)  I am an indie game developer and I'm making a game that easily can be labeled "adult," as even though it doesn't have explicit sexual content, it does contain strong language, fantasy drinking, gambling, kidnapping, fantasy narcotics, many explicit horror elements and other adult situations. As sexual content is far from the only thing that can be labeled adult (R-rated movies are certainly considered "adult" and my game is R-rated) it's only a matter of time before only childrens' games can be posted on this damn site. I now have no idea where I'll be posting my game, when the demo is finished.

As a game developer who is working on a very clearly adult game (No porn, no explicit sexual content)  that contains profanity, numerous horror elements, fantasy drinking, gambling, kidnapping, implied torture, character death and many other adult situations, I see that I will not be able to post it here now, once the demo is ready. Which is a damn shame, because adult content goes far beyond explicit sex and broadly encompasses anything that could be considered psychological, horror, or simply not being of a child-friendly nature. We do not live during the prohibition,  this is fucking Orwellian. There's not a damn thing wrong with porn, sex, horror, or sensitive topics that might offend certain individuals. This kind of censorship is beyond gross and entirely uncalled-for. I don't give  a shit if it's Visa, Mastercard, AMEX, Discover, PayPal, Skrill, Moneybookers, or any other payment processor that's being a pussy. It's because Collective Shout might as well drag everyone back to the fucking Crusades, or decide that women cannot flash an ankle in a game without someone catching the vapors. Shit like this needs to stop immediately.