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New content guidelines dropped. They're BAD.

A topic by Ash Kreider created 72 days ago Views: 8,646 Replies: 57
Viewing posts 1 to 22
(+36)

Continuing the theme of "making changes and hoping no one will notice", new content guidelines dropped, and they're NOT GOOD

Things that are now prohibited:

Non-consensual content (real or implied) Underage or “barely legal” themes Incest or pseudo-incest content Bestiality or animal-related Rape, coercion, or force-related Sex trafficking implications Revenge porn / voyeur / hidden cam Fetish involving bodily waste or extreme harm (e.g., “scat,” “vomit”)

So, as pointed out by @sjklapecki.itch.io‬ on Bluesky:
"Note it says "contains," that's broad. Under these terms, most of the ASOIAF series would be banned, so would many different mythologies or their retellings, stories about sexual assault like Mouthwashing are on thin ice, coming-of-age stories that involve sex are nixed, and more. This is BAD."

So yeah. My revenue sharing will continue to remain at 0 because seriously fuck that.

(+20)

That's pretty deeply disappointing, even forced disclaimers would be whatever but setting basis for removing mythologies they don't like (Ancient like Greek *or* Modern like Christianity) as well as Books or games like the ones mentioned
Mouthwashing for example, pretty grim, not exactly for kids although most of it would go over their heads anyway, but without question *not* something that should be remotely restricted. Nor anything that touches upon such grim topics in a considerate way

It's trying to set precedent for coming at titles on a much broader scale, whatever they feel like, whether they're forced to again or not

(+16)

Yeah, I agree with you completely. It looks like they're just starting to update their new terms, as far as I can see. But holy fuck, I don't like where this is going. Especially since they state  "It’s almost impossible to come up with an exhaustive list of unacceptable products to sell, so often we have to take content reviews one at a time. "

Fucking come on. If this is at the whims of the God-King Payment Processors and Lord Dictator Collective Shout, then they sure as hell can pony up and tell everyone exactly what cannot be published here. 

Seems like an arbitrary warning that they can and will pull any game that might offend someone in some minor way, if you squint your eyes and tilt your head a little bit, after beating your head into a brick wall.

Yeah, it does look like most mythology will be rejected, including biblically-based content.  It's also funny (in a "WHAT THE FUCK" way, not a "haha" way) that, while they're yeeting NSFW/adult games into the void that have no sexual content, but they're not posting anything about non-sexual nsfw or adult content. 

(+12)

1. "We won't tell you what's prohibited."

2. "If your content is prohibited, we're going to steal your money from you."

(+17)

Enough, this website needs to die. 

(+28)

> Non-consensual content (real or implied)


Under these guidelines any action that happens within any game that a character doesn't consent to is under fire. 

Does a monster kill your protagonist in your game with completely non sexual content? Doesn't matter, the protagonist didn't consent to dying therefore it's against itch's content policy.


goodness, this is ridiculous

(+15)

Yeah, THAT was exactly what I was worried about. I was hoping I had interpreted that line wrong, but based on "non-consensual content" being extremely generalized... son of a fucking bitch. The game I'm working on is a dark fantasy with many horror elements. Which includes, among other things: murder, kidnapping, combat (including boss fights,) characters being pushed into situations beyond their control, imprisonment, fantasy slavery (NPCs owned by other NPCS,) gladiatorial-style combat and far more. None of which is consented to.

GREAT to know (yes, that is extremely sarcastic) that RPGS of any sort can now get the banhammer, over absolutely nothing that has bothered anyone since RPGs were first conceived.

(+14)

Kidnapping, under the umbrella of the horror genre, sounds like something that would be directly under fire.
And it is most certainly a common, even core, trope of the genre.

I adore horror games, especially psychological horror (which that would likely be included under), worry about the extent to where this will go. And even more so the precedent being set and loose wording allowing for large scope.

(+8)

Yeah with that in mind, even a game like Resident Evil 7 which contains kidnapping and forced imprisonment would be considered "against the content guidelines".

(+1)

Saddening and disheartening.
And you know, the thing is they never would have held themselves to these standards when they were younger- they (processors, activists, lobbyists whoever) impose things like this on people when they don't have to deal with the consequences of their actions themselves. Pretty sure there's official Winnie the Pooh games that fall under all those intentionally broad specifications. Imagine that.

(+20)

Cack handed and sloppy, for sure.  I suspect they took the request directly from the idiotic business bozos in charge of the payment processors and put it directly into policy, unedited.

(2 edits) (+5)

Itchio makes the distinction between pornography games which glorify incest, rape and child abuse etc - and narratives which touch on them in ways which are not glorification. Context and framing matter. Its incoherent to discuss content divorced from context.

I don't think its smart or true to argue "if they ban No Mercy they're going to ban Mouthwashing next". I think it sounds asinine. The worst faith, most catastrophising of slippery slopes.

.

With that said, justice for scat porn.

Edit: https://itch.io/post/13497988

(+25)

In the American context, groups like the one behind this argue that all LGBTQ content is inherently sexualized and constitutes grooming and child abuse.

(+26)

Exactly! And Collective Shout is explicitly "against" the existence of trans people, which is why this shit matters

(+12)

Yeah. Collective Shout sucks so bad.

(+2)

I agree, and think it is bad. Its bad for LGBTQ people in America.

 Thankfully, itch itself is not making that argument or being forced to comply with that argument.

(+18)

Yet.  They always start with the most egregious examples and push inward.

(+10)

Uh yeah, this.

(+20)

Even if we were to assume that there could be a set of standards in regards to what does and does not count as art, and which subjects are and are not worthy of exploration,* "glorifying" is an entirely subjective term that is worthless in this context. 

No one person or group of people should be allowed to act as arbiters of what kind of art and media other people can and cannot create or interact with. Don't like it? Don't engage with it. But there's more to the creative field than Thomas Kinkade's whole thing of "art should always be uplifting and feelgood and should never challenge me and make me feel uncomfortable."

--Sincerely, someone whose mere existence is considered glorifying a degenerate and dangerous lifestyle by people like Collective Shout

* And we really, really fucking shouldn't because that's how you end up with lists of "degenerate art" and bookburnings.

does "Don't like it? Don't engage with it" also apply to payment processors

To be clear I hate the payment processors. The payment processors are the bad guys in this situation. Please make better arguments against them, that was a bad one.

(+12)

Oh sure, I'll just sell my queer smut through the literally zero payment processors who are okay with it

(3 edits) (+1)

Wait: you also use Patreon as a platform. Which is beholden to the same standards set by payment processors as itch. You do have several payment processors who are ok with your work.

.

I think it's natural to care for the other people who will be affected. Justice for scat porn etc. There's just some hills I'm not willing to die on. I don't see rape games with fascist devs and fascist messaging like No Mercy as the people who would show solidarity if the shoe was on the other foot: they would almost certainly celebrate the removal of what they would see as degenerate art.

In less leftist spaces, spaces which we'll call center-right to be diplomatic, this whole itchio shadowbanning is being discussed as a censorship of rape and incest games with no mention of queerness. In fact, this is considered an instance of leftist censorship and the center-right are complaining about leftist feminists (not distinguishing between feminists and terfs).

Its so sad the most grotesque fascist porn games affected will find a new home the easiest. Obviously. That's part of why this hurts queer people.

I'm sorry I keep bringing up No Mercy, its just the easy well known example to point too. Many such fascist porn games got deplatformed.

.

Patreon used to allow sex workers on its platform. People who'd sell photoes of hole. It sucked when they got banned. There wasn't a lot of solidarity from NSFW artists back then - they just kept on keeping on. The kinds of solidarity NSFW devs are demanding from SFW devs now never materialised when NSFW artists could have supported sex workers all those years ago. Its sad. I sometimes wonder who we NSFW artists are to now demand what we never gave. I just reflect on it some times.

.

Sorry for the rambling post.

(+13)

I don't know why you're calling the No Mercy dev a "fascist." Stop with the ad hominem attacks.

And just for your information, they're a pretty chill person. The game itself was only noticed because Karens made it seem like the worst thing ever, when it was really just an average, and really tame AVN.

Please do better as a human being.

(1 edit) (+12)

It says "We are unable to support the sale of any works containing these topics:" - nothing about "pornography" nothing about "glorify" - it contains it the content - it is on the chopping block.

(+2)
nothing about "pornography" nothing about "glorify" 

Read the whole thing and not a cropped social media screenshot: https://itch.io/docs/creators/faq#is-adult-content-allowed

The whole thing is under a subheading about adult media and pornography and not general policy. It directly uses the language: "Content glorifying sexual violence is not permitted".

(+8)

Yes, please read the whole thing, indeed:

If you plan to collect money for your content, then you must adhere to the acceptable use policy of all respective payment processors that your account utilizes:

The following is a non-exhaustive list of prohibited themes present in card processing networks. We are unable to support the sale of any works containing these topics:

Non-consensual content (real or implied)

Underage or “barely legal” themes

Incest or pseudo-incest content

Bestiality or animal-related

Rape, coercion, or force-related

Sex trafficking implications

Revenge porn / voyeur / hidden cam

Fetish involving bodily waste or extreme harm (e.g., “scat,” “vomit”)


Basically they say: "Content glorifying sexual violence is not permitted" (we will kick you out for that) and then they add "we won't let you sell anything that might violate the much longer list"

It does not need to "glorify" anything for the second part. If it did, it would already run afoul the first point and be kicked out and there would be no need to say "oh, we'll kick you off our platform for glorifying sexual violence, but if you also include scat in your sexual violence glorifying game then we also won't allow you to sell it"

I don't know how much plainer I can make it for you. There is NO QUALIFIER on the long list, it just says, if your content includes X it is as good as dead. A furry game (even if it is not porn)? Nope, not allowed to be sold because it might be "animal related"

Deleted 71 days ago

If you read all of the creators guidelines with this level of bad faith, you wouldn't be able to post your own email address on itch.

(+1)

I note your reply contained no counterpoints against my arguments beyond "you are reading this in bad faith"

(+2)

This is not true. Games that are not NSFW, adult content, or have any sexual content at all have already been banned. Specifically, games that contain the prohibited content. A man coming to terms with having been sexually assaulted, not described or included in the game itself, was banned because it contained non-consensual content.

So claim that the context matters all you want, but it really doesn't. Itch doesn't have the time, money, or people to review anything that lists any prohibited content to make sure the context is not glorifying. Payment processors don't give a damn how the game frames prohibited content. 

(1 edit)

A man coming to terms with having been sexually assaulted, not described or included in the game itself, was banned because it contained non-consensual content.

Source?

I am looking for a full-on ban that passed a human review. A game being swept up in shadowbans would not sway me, as I already agree that Itch did handle this situation poorly and quickly and badly. A lot of games got swept up in shadow bans that should not have. Payment processors are amoral profit driven entities who make a bad de-facto classification board. But platforms which are already forced to comply with payment processors whims such as Patreon and Ko-Fi would platform such a story. If Itch banned such a game they did a bad job and it should be reinstated.

(+20)

AND another issue that we're now facing is fucking Visa and Mastercard decided to update their TOSes to include non-sexual violence and gore in their prohibited content lists. At this point, we are BEYOND fucked.

(+11)

At this rate, the only thing they'll achieve with so many crazy restrictions is that the global economy will eventually collapse, and we'll return to small local markets with cash or barter.

(+4)

Please provide a link proving that statement, many person are saying this but no one gave me a link to visa or mastercard's website confirming that statement.

(+6)

Wait, would that not also apply to using Visa/Mastercard to sign up for streaming services, since shows on them could contain non-sexual violence and gore?

(+25)

itch.io is being pressured by bad people and they're bending the knee. The higher-ups at itch.io think they're going to be "safe" from the bad guys if they give in. You don't pacify a tiger by throwing it a steak. Hey, itch.io! Do a little research into this "Collective Shout" organization. They put "protecting children" up front, but if you dig deep, you find bigotry and other evils at their heart. 

(1 edit) (+8)

Who "bent the knee" first? Itch or Steam? nope, Visa, MasterCard, PayPal, and Stripe bent-the-knee to "Collective Shout" first. Well to be honest, the payment processors have been trying to censor for awhile. Collective Shout I think was just throwing gasoline on a smoldering dumpster fire.

The reason why Itch (or Steam) cannot give a detailed list of what is and isn't acceptable, is that the processors have not said. There is a reason the Steam rule 15 is just this:

"15. Content that may violate the rules and standards set forth by Steam’s payment processors and related card networks and banks, or internet network providers. In particular, certain kinds of adult only content."

Key word "may violate", it is specifically not worded as "do violate". I have yet to see the payment processors specifically say what content they are censoring. The only public consensus is something related to "adult" content, whatever that means.

(+9)

Newsflash: we are not defending itch.io, buddy. We are over defending itch.io.

(+1)

so also blast Steam as well for bending the knee as well. But you knew that when Steam denied games access or retroactively banned them to their storefront in the first place (remember Super Seducer 3 where the dev had appealed that they were following TOS). Not saying itch is doing is the right way, but the bigger storefronts who can make a stance aren't doing so.

(1 edit) (+21)

Theres a fkn NSFW filter ffs. blame the parents letting the kids see the games, stop punishing everyone else man. gay ass company

(+14)

Well it was predictable. It's the Tumblr thing again.

Since the goal is to ban NSFW content, LGBT content and anything Collective Shout disagree with, i can say that it's only the start.

(+14)

Yep. No future on itch.io for damn sure. Every bondage game I know is going to get banned. 

(+10)

This is quite unfortunate and seals the deal that my game project will not be uploaded here, as it deals with mature themes.

So nice of itch.io to not only bend over but also take it up the ass as well. These draconian rules would never be applied to film, TV, literature, or even AAA games. It's a straight-up double standard.

I'm afraid that itch.io will now go the way of Tumblr into irrelevancely.

Deleted 68 days ago
(+17)

By these rules Witcher 3 and Baldur's Gate 3 would not be allowed on this website. Absolute Joke.

(+10)

let alone silent hill 2.

or pretty much any fatal frame or clock tower game.

or most resident evils.

or deadly premonition.

(+10)

Tell MasterCard, Visa & Activist Groups: Stop Controlling What We Can Watch, Read, or Play https://chng.it/b2pMbsLvdg

Mastercard: Sex work is work. End your unjust policy https://action.aclu.org/petition/mastercard-sex-work-work-end-your-unjust-policy

UK: The scope of the Online Safety act is far broader & restrictive than is necessary in a free society. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/722903

(+4)

Also for USA citizens it is important to contact Congress.

(+6)

Also for USA citizens it is important to CHANGE WHO IS IN CONGRESS.

(+3)

FUCK THESE GUIDLINES AND FUCK THIS SITE SEARCH FOR AN ALTERNATIVE AND LEAVE THERE IS NOTHING FOR ANYONE HERE ANYMORE!!!

(+2)

Have you ever played a 2D puzzle platformer

(1 edit) (+9)

love that the fact when movies use such themes ( such as  assault or sexual violence ) no one bats an eye but when an indie game dev tries to spread awareness on such topic, All of a sudden everyone  think  is it as something vile and disgusting , talk about double standard bruh 

(1 edit) (+12)

Itch's capitulation to censors will not be forgotten, not will it ever be forgiven. What's worse is that you're now using it as an excuse to steal and plunder from the very LGBTQ creators who made your website what it is.

(+1)

when itch.io was allowing on a lot of content that Steam refused to even consider or would promptly delist, I saw the writing on the wall, especially when Steam mass delisted in response as well... Itch.io went about this the wrong way, but the website could be swarmed and taken down in an instant if they didn't immediately respond. Now X and other sites are feeling the risk of further censorship.

(+3)

Don't care. They shouldn't have caved.

yep BOTH Steam and itch shouldn't have caved. Especially since Steam has a bigger user base and more funds

(+2)

(+2)

Call Payment processors and take as much time as possible (This is the solution).

The reason phone call complaints are effective with these payment processor companies is because it takes up valuable time that the company could be otherwise dealing with other issues.  Phone support is expensive and slow, which makes it an ideal pressure point  A large public outcry is what causes companies to pay attention and consider backtracking.

Make a script about why this is bad (payment processor companies shouldn't be censoring legal material because they personally think it's immoral and it's an attack on free speech - you can ask AI to create a script for you if you don't have to time to write a long message) then call VISA/MasterCard/STRIPE/Paypal, you'll be on hold for a while because everyone is calling, and say you'd like to lodge a complaint.  Then when they ask what this is in regards to, just start reading your script.  The longer the better since that's the point.  We essentially have to keep this up for the next few weeks if we want something to happen.  We don’t need to be aggressive - just persistent. Keep the pressure on and call every few days, or every day if you care about this issue.

The following link has all the contact information you need to call them:

https://10kphonecalls.com/

Service reps will now try to quickly escort you to "e-mailing" instead once they realize you're complaining about itch and Steam's recent censorship - try to just keep them on the line.  In one call when they attempted to do this, I simply asked, "Are phone call complaints reported to your company or not?" and they just kept repeating "You must e-mail _________" - I was like, "You're not answering my questions, do you report them or not?" and eventually they transferred me to a supervisor who was really awesome to talk to and spent a long time talking to me..  Asking them about why companies are attempting to ban legal content is also a good question that they can't answer but will keep them on the line for a while.

(+1)

let's be realistic. imagine for a moment that itch just told Visa and Mastercard "up yours! we're keeping the porn". it would probably have been an existential decision. they could potentially lose nearly all of their income instantly, and their decision would be made at the expense of the entire platform, instead of just the sizable chunk it affects now.

itch has been supporting and hosting an enormous number of NSFW games and media for years, and has been one of the strongest and most respectable platforms for selling that type of content. i think it's unfair to hold them accountable for decisions made by forces much, much greater than them.

creators are the ultimate victim here. but itch's hands are likely tied. if they really just hated NSFW content and wanted it off the platform, they would have disallowed it a long time ago.

please direct your frustration to the source of the problem, Collective Shout, Visa and MasterCard.

(+3)

I find it somewhat ironic that a censorship push originated by a Christian group apparently would result in the Bible not being allowed on this platform.

Or, if the Bible would be allowed to be hosted on Itch under these new guidelines, then they definitely need clarification on how the Bible threads that needle so that everyone else can avoid both putting in hundreds of hours into a project just to get banned as well as unnecessarily censoring themselves for inclusion on Itch.