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Questions & Answers Session (Build 0.6.0) Locked

A topic by Minoh Workshop created Feb 09, 2022 Views: 3,613 Replies: 129
This topic was locked by Minoh Workshop Feb 18, 2022

We decided to close this thread early to stop it from having technical questions/bug reports about Build 0.6.0. Please go to the Build 0.6.0 General for discussion.

Viewing posts 1 to 43
Developer(+1)

Whenever we release a new build we let everyone ask us questions about the game, and this time is no different. To make it a little more lively, however, we will do it as a forum thread instead of the usual DevLog. It will allow a more conversational dynamic to it, we'll be able to have a better back and forth.

Your questions can be on or offtopic, serious or funny, long or short, insightful or brainrotted, horny or chaste, everything goes! Ask about the plot, the characters, the behind-the-scenes development process, whether or not we were horny when we wrote this or that part of the game, what did we mean by Asterion seemingly enjoying having his rear played with, why is Hinterlands III so damn long, just how much of a good boy Oscar is  and more! The sky is the limit — nay, the unreachable firmament is the limit.

We might refuse to answer a few questions if their answers are a bit too spoiler-ish, though, which is probably a comfort for most of the people. However, if you are enough of a super ultra Chad Deluxe correctly connecting arcane narrative dots with red string, we just might give you a cheeky response.

(1 edit)

I've got a question on the second choice the MC makes regarding who comes to the hotel (Themba, Wolf, Khenbish). Will we have the option later in the game to have another them to the staff? I'd love to see how they would interact with each other! :)

Developer(+5)

If you pick the Arts background you do get the chance of recruiting another one of them. It happens around the end of Build 0.5, if memory serves me. You can pick a decoration for the lounge, and which one you pick determines which of the other two available guests you recruit.

That's the only way to recruit a second one from that set of guests, though. It's the big advantage to the Arts background, much like the Leader background may allow you to recruit both Pedro and Nikos.

However, you will be able to recruit other characters later by doing side-quests. For example, starting with Chapter 19 finishing all hangouts with specific characters may unlock R&D projects that bring in unique characters, and there's at least one guy in our plans who will require a number of conditions to be recruitable :p

We know people want to get everyone together, but... You know, you can't help everyone. Even if the hotel has infinite resources, time is ever so precious and scarce...

(+2)

welp horny question here, is there nsfw stuff or cg in the next build, and will we finally able to fuck our lovely minotaur asterion or get fuck by him if there is a choice to be a top or bottom in this relationship 

Developer(+7)(-2)
is there nsfw stuff or cg in the next build

The return of the horny is long overdue, my friend. Yes, there will be a NSFW scene.

will we finally able to fuck our lovely minotaur asterion or get fuck by him if there is a choice to be a top or bottom in this relationship 

The adult scene we are adding does not involve Asterion, though. We'll get there eventually, it's just this update revolves around adding Kota's hangouts.

When we do get to the sex scenes with Asterion, they will mostly revolve around Asterion leaning more towards bottom. We might however add a scene with him topping later in the game, as an optional/unlockable, but the details for that are still undecided.

(+1)

how many more guests are planned as potential staff members? are all potential pairings for match making predetermined? (as in character A x character B must get with each other or remain single) are there any ideas to make improvements to the capabilities of certain player backgrounds?

Developer(+5)

Our plan for the guests and match-making are tinkered with every now and then, to adjust for scope, time and what human resources we have available. Let's just say that getting the game done is more important than getting it perfect, and it's best if we readjust the plans to reach the end before the thermal death of the universe.

What this means is that we have two sets of plans: what we must develop for the game to be minimally complete and what, in a best case scenario, we would like to have if all the stars align.

When we get back to the main story you'll always recruit Oscar, and you will only get P or Argos (unless you have the Leader background and fulfill some conditions, in which case you can get both). Beyond those three, right now we plan on adding three more characters to the game, all of which will be optional. This will bring the total cast to Asterion, Luke, Kota, Robert, Themba, Wolf, Khenbish, Oscar, Pedro, Argos, Optional Guests 1, Guest 2 and 3. These 3 optional characters will be intimately connected with guests that you may (or may not) have recruited before.

It's probably worth noting that some characters might already have their whole story told without romance. It's possible that a few of them might just be very happy with being single by the end of the story.

Depending on how things go, we may either go with the Big Plan, which involves writing up to 4 more optional guests once the main story is done, or we will go for the relatively more manageable task of pairing up the already existing cast in a closer net of possibilities. We'll try to go with what's the best mix of satisfying and manageable.

Some of the player backgrounds will get their big bonuses later in the game. We are aware some of them aren't as attractive as others. Arts is really good right now because it lets you recruit one extra guest for free, Leader will let you have P and Argos if you play your cards right. We want to give more juicy stuff for the others to make them just as interesting.

my question is maybe there are other languages for only brazilian and i don't mean it very good this was my question love this game i hope it continues (・∀・)

Developer(+1)

Tem um tradução para português do Brasil sendo feita, porém por motivos de força maior está suspensa no momento. Vai demorar para chegar.

(+4)

+RESPECT for being a visual novel that thought of putting PTBR or at least letting a translation be done. Maybe Asterion isn't the big-hearted one here is he?

(+2)

Do you guys have any plans for Mr Red Dragon at the moment?

Developer(+3)

Ah... Maybe we do, maybe we don't! Maybe this update will answer your question...

(1 edit) (+4)

As my favorite character (After the hot and kind-hearted bull) is Argos and so I need to know, will we have more appearances from him? Something redemption and recruitment level? Because after playing it several times, I felt that progressing with him is not only the slowest, but investing in it itself is not very rewarding. (I edited it to try to improve the English, I think it just got worse)

Developer(+2)

You will be able to recruit Argos when we get back to the main story (which isn't in this update, it's focused on Kota.) You either get P or Argos, which one you recruit depends on a number of choices you made over the game. If you want Argos, I suggest you get the best over him/trick him as often as possible.

If you want I can answer this question in Portuguese too.

(+2)

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! ARGOS ON THE TEAM FOR YESTERDAY!

I'm glad to know that I'll be able to interact better with Argos, thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Oh, and thanks for offering to write the answer in Portuguese, it shows that you have a care for your community which especially nowadays, is getting more and more rare.

Developer(+1)

You're welcome!

(+1)

Very much excited about this upcoming update. Without giving away too much about the plot, how would you describe this update's story progression? Slice of life, set up or transitioning to entire new plot thread /side story?.  For example, I would regard the last update as a plot thread resolution arc considering how many questions/character goals (mostly just P and Argo ) got answered/reached and a semi happy start for Asterios. With the loss of Argo as an antagonist force, wherever the story gonna go next is beyond my current imagination ( and I bet it gonna be incredibly fascinating ) 

Developer(+1)

As we said in the DevLogs, this update DOES NOT continue the main plotline of Asterion and the MC. We are taking some time to work on the side content for the guest characters. Our goal is for all recruited guests to have "hanging out" scenes like Luke does, and later on they will have capstones to their arcs.

This update adds the hanging out scenes for Kota, which develop his character and conflict. It will also add a scene that follows the hangouts and reveals more about him.

When we do get to the main plot, the next chapter will involve sitting down with Argos to get the full picture of what happened, the MC and Asterion getting closer, Asterion and Oscar getting to know each other, and some plot revelations that will set up a conflict players will have to juggle going forward.

(1 edit) (+1)

Being as unapologetically gay as this vn is I was wondering if the struggle of coming to terms with ones own sexuality is a topic you are going to touch in future updates.

( asking mostly for Oscar [or Asterion] )  


This question seems oddly specific, It's just something i'd like to see explored

Developer (1 edit) (+6)

We will touch on that, but in our own way. I think the very traditional narratives of "coming to terms, coming out of the closet, suffering push back and overcoming it" are very overdone and not very engaging, so when we do it I want it to be different.

Khenbish's story may be the one that most visibly touches this subject. He comes from a very poor family that's been through a lot, and from a culture that's not had much contact with the idea of being tolerant of LGBT people. His family is loving, he loves his parents and siblings and wants to help them, which is why he's been hyper-focused on being the responsible older brother at the cost of his own self-exploration as an individual. It's also a factor that he really struggled to make connections with others because of his charm, and being openly LGBT often leads to people being fired over it in Mongolia.

Overall, Khenbish's life is affected by a homophobic culture, but it's first and foremost ruled by the very few chances he and his family have had to do well in life. So him coming to terms with his own sexuality will be a bit different from most LGBT narratives. It will be, I hope, quite unique, and maybe a bit subtle.

As for Oscar... I have a lot I'd like to touch with him. The Hinterlands sections happened mainly from P's perspective, so we didn't get to see much of Oscar's innermost thoughts. I'd like to change that in the future, hopefully explore how he sees his own sexuality.

He's someone who's been so thoroughly excluded from his community, and he is so aware of how destructive the Hinterlands are, that he sees everything that opposes their local culture as a positive thing. The standard sexuality for a man of the Hinterlands is "heterosexual chronic cheater" or, at most, "homophobic bisexual chronic cheater misogynist," so you can imagine that P's "monogamous gay who does not want to take advantage of him" is almost saint-like in comparison.

In that sense, Oscar doesn't struggle too much with accepting his sexuality, but if we see more of his inner monologue I want to convey that things are a little more complicated. He has a richer inner life than his attitude lets on, and that extends to the finer details of his sexuality. He's special like that.

Asterion doesn't struggle too much with being attracted to a man, instead he has to grapple with literally everything else, including but not limited to the MC's hierarchical position, frail mortality, and the profound existential dread of being unable to follow the natural cycle of life which all mortals do. 

As an addendum, Asterion has seen plenty of LGBT people over the centuries, so homosexuality on its own is not something he bats an eye at.

Other characters may touch on this topic too, but more distantly and superficially. We will see.

(+1)

That is something I'm happy to read will be touched on and I look forward to it! I love to read on other culture's experiences on coming out to get a different perspective on it. Especially if it's not the valid but overly depicted coming out of the closet to homophobia and overcoming adversity story.

The little we do see of Khenbish, I that impression of putting his family first before his wants and needs; especially with he dreams and desires. I'd like to learn more about how his culture informs his views and probably his need to be closeted. I get the impression part of his annoyance with Luke at the drinking game is jealousy that Luke has the privilege to be as open as he is. It's humorous and sad if you see him seemingly despite to learn more about how he could date and get laid as a mythical if you ask the charm question.

As for Oscar, I am curious to learn his experiences with finding himself given the life he's lived. I imagine given how much time he's lived in isolation has given him the time to reflect on his feelings on the subject even if the circumstances wouldn't have given him the opportunity to explore them with another person before Pedro came into his life. The views of the Hinterlands that you mentioned hit close to home in terms of the little of my Peruvian heritage I've experienced from my biological father. It makes me feel fortunate to have not experienced it growing up. Besides the "being gay is cool" dialogue being hilarious in context, it's good insight on Oscar finding things in depictions of gays that he likely finds appealing because it reflects his likes and his feelings. It would great to read highlights from the Hinterlands from Oscar's perspective. Though, how you would implement it (a flashback? An unlockable replay) and then take Oscar's and Pedro's relationship status (Friends or Romantic) into account is more wishes for the game to add to the list. Still, I would like to read Oscar at least talk about it with either Asterion or Pedro.

Then there's Asterion who would likely have a unique perspective and experience with finding himself given the time and part of the world he grew up in and the centuries after his death. I would assume he'd also have the same time in life as with Oscar being isolated in the labyrinth when he lived to reflect on himself and what he liked. And if not, definitely in the centuries afterwards. I would love to have he and the MC have a conversation about it and how he likely doesn't see it as a big deal but from his experience through the guest, he understands the concepts of "being in the closet" and "coming out" even if he just learned that those phrases are the modern associations to those concepts. It could be an opportunity to give the player a chance to flesh out their MC with maybe an option of their experience. Is the MC out and it's been no big deal for him, did he come out and is no longer on speaking terms with some family members or maybe he's still closeted though given his ownership of the hotel, that couldn't have that much of an impact on his financial and/pr physical wellbeing if he come out now. Or maybe some other experience I can't think of. Ultimately, it's not something that could have an effect on the plot, but it could give Asterion different dialogue base on his centuries of vicarious experience for the conversation. That is something I love about the Luke and Asterion conversation if Kota is running the lounge and what the "gay" conversations says about Asterion's knowledge about it and subtle probing on the matter. He's not ignorant of the concept of homosexuality as Luke assumes, he just doesn't know that the word gay is associated with homosexual. Asterion's follow up question on if being gay is normal is Asterion gauging what the modern-day view on homosexuality is by Luke's responds. I can only imagine that his thought is "oh, so it's ok for people to be open about loving same sex people again. Good to know." It could also contribute to him gauging how receptive the MC could be to him admitting his love to him based on the modern-day view on the matter. Not having this conversation is made up by Robert and Jean's conversation later on and likely that the MC isn't out right offended at the thought. Our moo sharing his views on the how homosexuality and/or non-heteronormative relationships based on his centuries of serving guest from different eras and parts of the world would be very interesting.

(+2)

I missed the last Q & A session, so I'm really excited to ask these questions. 

1. What countries do you get the most traffic from (Aside from America)? I don't know if you have like a google Analytics for Minotaur Hotel, but I'm really curious.

2. What kinds of projects do you and your team want to do after you finish Minoh? I know Nanoff is making his comics but what about the rest of you guys?

3. What sex positions are each of the characters? I know both Asterion and Luke are bottoms but who else?  I hope Oscar gets a scene where he gets to bottom, I really want to see his hole.

4. Is a premium version of Minotaur Hotel a possibility? 

5. Besides the Hinterlands, what's one thing that you guys were surprised at the fandom reaction to?

Developer(+2)
1. What countries do you get the most traffic from (Aside from America)? I don't know if you have like a google Analytics for Minotaur Hotel, but I'm really curious.

I got your back, flim flam. Probably worth adding that the data for Brazil may be a bit higher than it should, because I check the page somewhat often to see how things are going and Google Analytics counts that as a normal user.

And this is the top 10 in terms of language:

If you want more data just ask, I'm glad to help however I can.

2. What kinds of projects do you and your team want to do after you finish Minoh? I know Nanoff is making his comics but what about the rest of you guys?

Speaking exclusively about myself (MinoAnon), I'd like to work on small projects after Minotaur Hotel. I have a few ideas already: I'd really like to work on something very horny with dinosaurs, and/or something mellow and reflexive with lots of outdoor locations. For both cases I'd like to use a structure closer to the Hinterlands' instead of a linear one. I'd also like to work on a micro-sized horny project that's not a VN, but if that's viable it remains to be seen. We'll see if the stars ever align for these projects.

3. What sex positions are each of the characters? I know both Asterion and Luke are bottoms but who else?  I hope Oscar gets a scene where he gets to bottom, I really want to see his hole.

Luke is a self-professed verse/verse bottom, except he only ever bottoms. He can top only in the most theoretical of levels, but he swears he can if he wants to.

Iirc Kota is the sort of verse that really does 50% topping and 50% bottoming. He's really into 69 and flip fucking.

Robert is the kinky switch that can go with pretty much anything as long as it's safe, sane and consensual. Unlike Kota, he'd be very alright with being exclusively a top or bottom in a relationship, as long as he's emotionally satisfied and secure that's what his partner wants. He's an older gentleman who has experienced a lot. If he's being a sub, however, he'll be a lot subbier than one would expect from his appearance.

Themba is the dommiest of tops, and a kinky, hardcore one if you are into that.

Khenbish is still figuring himself out. He'll lean on being a verse, given enough time to experiment.

Wolf is a wolf.

Argos is a chaos elemental and smug sexual. Probably likes roleplaying way too much.

Pedro and Oscar are a bit peculiar. Assuming they like each other in that sense, Oscar is just really into Pedro and very flexible sexually. He'd probably conform with whatever Pedro asks of him, but it just happens that P is generally a verse. As a consequence, if they do end up dating Oscar would probably pick that up from him. But if P was a top or a bottom that would affect Storm. Anyway, if you want to see Oscar bottoming/showing his ass I suggest you check this out

Will answer the two other questions later tonight

(+1)

-Argos is a chaos elemental and smug sexual. Probably likes roleplaying way too much.

"Wanna play the rowdy minotaur and the strict Foreman?"

Developer(+2)


"Oh, Master, perchance thou'rt enthralled by mine coils, yes? I can show thee just how superior the Argoi are to any dusty mammal."

Courtesy of Willothatdraws

If chaotic smug sexual isn't a thing before this, it should be. This sounds like Argos would be a sexual tease with elegant flamboyance in contrast to Luke's crass openly sexual teasing.

That does remind me of something I have been wondering. While going through tricking Argos throughout the narrative and showing him kindness, do I detect the smallest hint of a crush he might have on the MC that he would only leave as a crush? Or am I reading too much into his admiration of a clever and kind MC?

Developer(+1)

He has a sort of hero worship/platonic crush towards the MC, mainly if you trick him often. He's been waiting his entire life to pick up his ancestor's mantle and the MC might just be the absolute perfect master in his eyes.

No matter what, however, he would only have this on a platonic level. Some things are sweeter and more precious when kept as fantasies. Assuming you've tricked him often and been a very heretical master, what Nikos has is already very dear indeed.

(+1)

Those were the words I was looking for! A crush but more like platonic admiration. I think we've felt an attraction to someone based on their words and actions but it's more about the kind of person they are rather than the person themselves. You'd be happy being considered a close friend of someone like that but not necessarily intimate.

That is something to look forward to, getting to know Nikos as himself and not as Argos. Will he be a sassy tease who becomes the MC's wingman? (Speculating, not an actual question to necessarily answer.)

Developer(+1)
4. Is a premium version of Minotaur Hotel a possibility? 

Is Bloodborne ever coming to PC?

Jokes aside... We are very aware of how much people want to support the project monetarily, but we don't know. For now our mind is on finishing the game. What I can say is that I think that releasing a premium version with extra goodies would tasteful, perhaps a nice cherry on top, if we can come up with enough extras for it to be worthwhile.

5. Besides the Hinterlands, what's one thing that you guys were surprised at the fandom reaction to?

We expected people to be hornier. The reaction over Luke's whiplash of a sex scene caught us just a tiny bit off-guard (maybe we should have expected it...), but it wasn't a negative thing. It signaled to us that we could go harder with some of the more literary aspects and that paid off. In general, though, I'm surprised with how rarely our readers get very horny about the characters.

We also expected Argos and P to be more divisive. If anything, I'd say I went too soft on P during the Hinterlands, I could have made him less likable. But I don't think that's exactly an issue because a lot of people prefer "Fatherly P," so perhaps what I should have done is making that alternative have more content.

That's what comes to mind now, if I remember anything else I'll add it later.

(+1)

would you consider adapting the game into a book once game is complete?

Developer(+2)

I don't really see the need to. First of all, I think minotaur hotel benefits a lot from the interactive component inherent to the medium of games/visual novels. I don't think we can approach the themes of responsible use of power and authority if the reader is not in control of the protagonist's actions. The ruthless route, period, would have a lot less impact if it didn't happen as a result of your actions as a player. 

And more importantly, wouldn't it be better if we used the time it would take to adapt minotaur hotel into another medium to start another project? 

So quick question: Is Black and Sierra two of the optional guests?

Developer

Who's Sierra?

I believe Sierra was mentioned in a dev report ( I think it was that you could only get Sierra or Pedro)

Developer

There's no one called Sierra in the game. We do have a character called Black, and they are one of the optional guests.

(+1)

Have you given any more thought to possibly adding in a therapy plotline for Asterion (in a later update, I know that's not what this update is about)? I know it's something that's been discussed amongst players in the community threads...

Developer(+2)

I am definitely thinking about it. I just haven't settled on anything because we'll have to see how it can be implemented/will fit with the narrative going forward. It's mainly an issue of logistically inserting it.

What we discussed among ourselves is that if we do go ahead with the idea then therapy should be inserted into the main story (not an R&D project off to the side) and the narrative should not show what happens during the therapy sessions — it's Asterion's private time, of course. But that's all still undecided, it'll be a while before we're in a position to say for sure what we're gonna do.

I do think it would be neat if Robert recommended a demon therapist from his home realm to Asterion. I think that would be very in-character for Robert, he's the sort of galaxy brain hyper dimensional entity who goes to therapy himself as a prophylactic mental health measure. He's that one guy who says "there's nothing wrong with going to therapy, I have one session every other week" whenever someone talks shit about psychologists. And a mythical therapist, particularly one from an afterlife realm, would be better equipped to discuss Asterion's trauma.

(1 edit) (+2)

I could totally see Robert recommending a Therapist to Asterion!

I also agree we shouldn't directly witness the therapy sessions, and perhaps could instead get bits of information from Asterion, depending on what he feels comfortable sharing with MC.

(1 edit) (+2)

how do you do your research on the cultures the guests are from? the little bits that are discussed and shown in the game are really neat and seem to go deeper than a simple google search

another, sillier question: how would asterion feel about hades or god of war? curious, horrified, amused?

been hyperfixated on the game for the past two weeks, love what you guys do, can't wait for the update! :>

Developer(+3)

How we do research is a case by case basis, really.

In the case of cultures we're not very familiar with like Themba or Khenbish's we read about the country, its history, watch documentaries and movies, and most important of all, try to talk to locals. We know a guy from South Africa (who's working on Lord of the Manor, an African-inspired visual novel) to consult for Themba, but as hard as we tried we couldn't get a reliable Mongolian person to interview for accuracy. We did have a friend of a friend who studied with a Mongolian guy and he answered a lot of our questions, so that helped.

We didn't really interview Greek or Japanese people for Kota and Asterion since people from the Minoan civilization and Meiji era Japan aren't around to ask (this might change for Nikos since he was actually born and raised in contemporary Greece, though). For them we mostly rely on historical research from a lot of sources. Kangarube (who writes most of the poetry for the game and does a lot of editing) has an arts degree, regularly reads ancient Greek plays and poetry so he's our main consultant. Minoanon also read up on texts like the Homeric Hymns and that helps a lot.

As for Brazil, well, Minoanon is literally Brazilian.

Personally I really like small quotidian aspects of the cultures we portray because they make for fun character interactions. Stuff like Khenbish cooking local recipes for the guests, I love doing research on that. There's a scene that will go into one of the next builds where the main character can pick drinks for Kota to serve him. If Themba is available, one of the shots you can take is a Springbokkie, which has an amusing drinking ritual around it he makes the main character partake in, that's the kind of stuff I love to put in the game.

Developer(+4)

We answered your first question in another Q&A, so I'll copy/paste it here.

Lan, the Nicest Orc: Regarding the new arrivals, was research into their particular myths/culture hard? What were some of the tools you used for that research?

NANOFF: As usual, our research involves tons of googling and watching videos and movies and consulting with people from the respective countries.

Themba was by far the hardest character to design for the game. Sub-Saharan African mythological creatures aren't as extensively portrayed in Western media so we had to do a lot of research to do. We had another issue: the game already has an abundance of both heavyset characters and reptiles, and a lot of African mythological monsters tend to be giant aquatic mishmashes of reptiles and large mammals (which, you know, considering the kind of stuff you find in African rivers is not surprising). The grootslang was the most fitting creature for Themba's role as the hotel's accountant, considering it's a creature that guards precious gems, and one of the better known ones, we played up the elephant elements of the design. We also did research on Johannesburg since the city influences Themba's personality and backstory.

MINOANON: Zaggy Norse helped us a lot with this. Doing our own research is good and important, but nothing beats having a chat with someone who's actually knowledgeable with the culture itself.

NANOFF: Khenbish was also tricky because A) I swear to god there are no decent public domain/non commercial license pictures of Ulaan Baatar, and B) we couldn't find anyone from Mongolia to personally consult with. The best we got was getting a friend who went to school with a Mongolian classmate to ask him some questions, and we managed to get some information from him. We complemented our research watching two movies: the Eagle Huntress, and the Story of the Weeping Camel. It was an interesting case for us because a lot of Mongolians were upset with Eagle Huntress (produced and narrated by Daisy Ridley) overstating the amount of opposition the protagonist was up against for trying to do a male dominated activity — there's a lot of close ups of old men looking angry while everyone seems chill in the crowd shots, you can tell that it's trying to force a narrative. It was a good reminder to never be satisfied with a single source when doing research on a foreign culture.

MINOANON: Because we couldn't rely on someone to consult with, we had to be more creative in our research. Beyond the sources nanoff mentioned, in the end I'd say one of the biggest inspirations for Khenbish came from us reading Mongolian poetry and studying what structures they use. We tried to incorporate some of it in the writing. I don't expect many people to take note of it but I'm proud of that aspect of his content.

We covered Khenbish and Themba, who come from Mongolia and South Africa respectively. But there's also Storm and P, who both come from Brazil — more specifically, they come from a part of it with which I am very acquainted and from a very specific economic and social situation. For them I was overwhelmingly pulling from the folklore and mythology I was personally familiar with. That's probably the main thing about it — while we tried to explore different cultures with most of our characters, in the Hinterlands I was fully diving into my own and going as far as I could. 

Because of this, the Hinterlands probably had the richest mix of sources. For the record, I should add I also read some Câmara Cascudo (a Brazilian folklorist) for ideas, and that really played a role in the story.

---

As for Hades and God of War...

Here's a fun story: while visiting a family friend as a teen, I saw his son playing a God of War game where he was killing minotaurs in extremely gruesome and graphic ways. I sometimes get freaked out by extreme video game gore+violence and that's one of the times it happened. I don't think Asterion would like it either.

He'd enjoy Hades' story, kinda. He'd like how Persephone and Zagreus are portrayed, he'd be into the main storyline of them reconnecting, but he'd  disagree with how Hades comes across and generally have a hard time verbalizing his thoughts about the portrayal of the Olympians, Asterius and Theseus.

He'd be very annoyed with the in-game lyre not having a minigame associated to it, and he'd be into Orpheus' songs.

(+1)

To piggyback on the Hades question, what would Asterion think of his Asterius counterpart? Particularly his devotion to Theseus? Even more scandalous, what about the fan shipping of Asterius and Theseus? Personally, I like all the sexy porn (adorning my walls) of it. Though, when I stop to think about it, it is weird to ship Asterius with his killer in the afterlife, who then ran off with Asterius' sister after killing him only to then abandoned her later then Asterius becoming his manservant in the afterlife after Theseus civilized him. Though you could also see it as two enemies becoming lovers and devoted to each other in the afterlife to make sweet man on bullman love for all eternity. Boy, explaining what shipping is to Asterion would be an awkward conversation.

Developer(+2)

I think Hades' shipping of Asterius and Theseus works very nicely as a sort of metanarrative nod to the fact that the whole games was originally going to be based around people playing as Theseus to, allegedly, fight(?) the Minotaur. With this in mind it can be a cute thing, and I appreciate it.

With that out of the way, yes. Shipping Asterius with Theseus only makes the minimum amount of sense if you disregard everything else: that Asterius' sister told the secret of the labyrinth to Theseus, who in turn possibly left her to die in Naxos. And all of this happened because Athenians murdered Androgeos on the Panathenaic Games. And, later, Asterius father would die in his quest for revenge. Theseus destroyed Asterius' family irreversibly.

Minotaur Hotel's Asterion has an unique take on Theseus. One day we'll have a flashback and see what kind of person he was. I'll just say that Hades' portrayal of Theseus would make Asterion feel alienated. He fundamentally disagrees with it, so much he can't even begin to describe why.

(1 edit)

I've been learning little bits and pieces of the mythology revolving around King Minos' rule and when you put it together like that, it does make it sound so much worse.

I need to do more reading on Androgeos' story, I don't believe I've ever heard of Androgeos before this game. I also didn't know that the bull that sire Asterion is also part of Heracles' feats. Did Asterion ever have any interaction with that bull in life?

Developer(+1)

He saw the bull. Maybe even saw it many times, simply because it didn't live far from the palace, seeing how prized it was. But it was just a regular bull in intellect, and never could have recognized Asterion.

Asterion may have seen the bull often, but may never have gotten close enough to touch it.

(+2)

i haev question

por quê não cumplementarnos para uma mundacia?

Developer(+1)

Vocês fuppets não são práticos. Meu sonho minha vida real exceder.

(Context for everyone unaware of the greatest creation of Brazil's Transatlantic ex-colony, the Tiny Fuppets phenomena)

(+2)

Do you plan to expand upon the contract MC and Asterion made about not sending him to the valley? Right now, it seems to me its main purpose is a show of trust and MC's dedication to treat Asterion well, sort of like a marital vow, you could say(just with actual very harsh consequences). I imagine it could potentially make for some very tense moments in the future though, so I wonder if it comes up as a major point of conflict again. 

Developer(+2)

The oath and the laurel wreath will pop up again in the future, yes.

I struggle a bit to phrase this in a way that's neither a spoiler nor so short it's unsatisfactory, but what I can say is that the Ruthless Route reveals that there are important, worthwhile things to be done in the valley, from which Asterion stands to gain. Some of those things, however, may require him to be there to be accomplished, no one else can do them.

The Ruthless route shows one of those worthwhile things, but there are more. The valley has many secrets.

That works more than well enough. Thank you! 

(+1)

oh, would there be another exploration chapter like the hinterlands but in the valley(or even elsewhere)? or is that mechanic one and done?

Developer(+2)

I want to do precisely one more section of "Hinterlands-like exploration" in the main story. I think we can still do fun things with that mechanic and I loved writing for it. But that will depend on how things go, it's a bit too early to tell if it'll fit the story.

i hope it can be done, loved that segment. just might be better to have it's own dedicated update if another one is made.

Developer(+2)

We plan on adding a sort of expansion to the hinterlands later down the road, you might like that. We'll throw in the locations we originally planned but had to cut for time.

(+1)

Continuing along that thread... ahem... The contract with the wreath and lead band was phrased in such a way (I can't remember the exact wording) that always made me wonder what would happen if Asterion chose to go out in tongue valley by himself, not at the behest of the master. Since the contract forbids the master from forcing Asterion directly, or making another person force him, to go to the valley.

If Asterion went to the valley out of his own volition, due to some very important need, would that still amputate the master's arm?

(1 edit)

It's stated that it would only happen if the master forced him to go out, even if the master is forced into making the command. it's also stated that asterion has to protect the master so the master isn't forced into making the command

Developer
If Asterion went to the valley out of his own volition, due to some very important need, would that still amputate the master's arm?

That's a mystery!

Finnnnnne 😂👍

I figured you might say something like that

A follow up on this, if Asterion does go into the valley, a lot of the issues he faced seemed to be him getting badly wounded due to skin contact with the environment. what if they prepared for the journey if they needed to go out and gave him proper protection? I get the heat wouldn't allow certain types of protection like full plate (even though he's solid muscle and could probably skip in full plate) but surely leather or padded armour would prevent most of the environmental hazards while the master can command any of the hostile creatures to back off

Developer

Good point! Leather armor wouldn't actually do much against the sort of stuff that's starting to wake up at the valley...

I had an idea for this that might end up being cut. I wanted to have an R&D project that would produce a special sort of fabric that can only exist in the labyrinth, that's resistant against most of the environmental hazards of the valley while still being unintrusive and cool enough to allow for exploration. We'll see if we can put it in.

I love the concept of the R&D portion of the game, and I really hope we get to see a lot more of it over the course of the rest of the game. 

i have a few questions

how many new R&D project in the new build  ?

2 currently at the end of the current version its how long the MC is in the hotel ?

3 in the future are you going to do a sequel to drinking games or something similar like strip poker?

4 and one last naughty question what is the biggest fantasy of asterion and each member of staff ? (argos / nikos, oscar, pedro included).

5 is there a French version of planning or in court?

The game is great I wish you a good continuation and can't wait to play the new version . and sorry for the possible fault English has my native language.

Developer(+1)

We wanted to add a really meaty R&D project to this build, but it became too big so we'll have to push it off to the next one. So there'll be no new projects this time. It's about making a pool for the hotel and it's a lot like the drinking game scene.

2 currently at the end of the current version its how long the MC is in the hotel ?

Around 2 to 4 months, if memory serves me. We leave it vague so people can adjust that for themselves.

I'll give you the fantasies of three characters:

Asterion won't admit it, but he sometimes fantasizes about being "kidnapped" and taken somewhere private. Back in his time on Crete that's how marriages used to happen — after everything was arranged and good to go, the groom would show up at the family home of the bride to "roleplay kidnap" her. Asterion thinks that's nostalgic and sweet.

We didn't see this in the game, but during Oscar's time living with Pedro he could sometimes be a cheeky little shit. He'd shower and dry off with the windows and doors open, in the hopes of Pedro passing by and seeing him. He probably fantasized about something more happening then! He also really wants to take a nap on his chest, feeling up his feathers.

Robert's fantasy is a very esoteric one: he wants to be sexually submissive to someone with a very specific and unique kind of soul. It's both a sexual and romantic fantasy to him, and he regrets deeply that it could never happen.

No plans for a French version. Our focus is on finishing the game, so translations only happen if someone from the community volunteers.

(+1)

It's kind of a broad question, but how much research goes into this? You guys clearly know both real history and mythology, but the psychological aspects of, like, every character is insane. I mean, Asterion's psyche is the most obvious simply because of what he's been through, but even the other characters feel so alive in the way they react to the situations around then. 

Developer

Thank you! If you check a few posts above you'll see the lengths we go to in our research about culture and mythology. Now, for the psychology of it... It's more feeling it than research. A lot of time, and I really mean a lot, is spent trying to pin down the specific emotion and flow to each character. It requires a lot of introspection and reflection from us.

That's why we really go ham with the introduction chapters, as each one we write is also part of the experiment through which we figure out what each character feels like.

We also constantly consult with each other about how each character would react to this or that, to try and keep it all consistent.

(+1)

What part of writing the vn are you mostly :

1. Proud of?

2. Difficult time to transcribe?

3. had fun most of the time?

and do you already have a concept map on what will happen in the story and a conclusive ending? or do you instead have not yet created an ending but will look for plans to change the story a bit to the fans liking?

Developer(+1)

Sorry to leave this question hanging
I think if we were to reach a consensus with the full dev team, it would be a toss up between Hinterlands part 3, the ruthless route, and the scene in the deep labyrinth. Out of the scenes I personally wrote, I'm really proud of the drinking game scene. And it easily doubles as the hardest to move to the VN because of all the moving pieces.

And yes, we have a draft of how the story is going to end, and how we're going to get there. We smooth out the details as we go.

As for changing the story to the fans liking... we like to include fanservice here and there, and we definitely listen to feedback and take suggestions from the community, but in broad strokes, we're doing the game we want to make, we don't really bend the bigger plot points to what people want or expect.

after this update is completed, when will you begin work on the next chapter? you have to admit, leaving us hanging after a scene like that for several months is a bit intense

Developer(+1)

If by the next chapter you mean, chapter 19 (which would continue the main story), it will take a while. Keep in mind that 0.5 pushed the story forward into its last third, so we have to begin planning how we're going to wrap up the game now, and we want to take our time to do it. Chapter 19, specifically, has some very complicated scenes writing-wise that deal with the fallout of chapter 18- Pedro or Nikos either taking up a position in the staff or leaving the hotel, depending on your choices; what does Oscar want to do with his life now, and how he relates to Asterion; how Asterion and the player advance their relationship; and we have to introduce the conflict to drive the last chunk of the game. It's a lot.

Which is why we decided to focus on optional content for now. It's way easier to write, it gives overlooked characters a moment to shine, it gives us time to recharge our batteries after the herculean task that was delivering a whole third of the game in one build, and carefully plan the rest of the game.

So, yeah, we'll get to chapter 19 when we're ready. I completely understand that we're giving people massive blue balls with this delay and I'm sorry about that.

We used this long hiatus between builds to get a lot of work done on the other characters' content ahead of time, though, so we can guarantee there will be more frequent updates until we get to 0.7 and that will make the wait more bearable.

In some twitter posts there was shown some new costumes for Asterion at a poolside, will there be any other new clothing for Asterion? maybe something to do with a certain flower hat?

Developer (1 edit) (+1)

... I fucking hate to answer this but Asterion's poolside costume (and all new outfits for him) will have to wait for the next update.

Full disclosure: we stumbled a bit with planning this update, we had all of the content written for Kota's hangout scenes when we announced the release date, with a "conclusion" to Kota's arc eventually getting added to chapter 19. About a month ago we realized this was not a great idea, people already have massive blue balls from us taking a six month break and doing side stuff while all the threads from chapter 18 are still dangling, so we decided to give it a shot and use the rest of the month to write and add this to the game. Nemo ended up being a gigachad and writing 11k words of additional material to give this side story a really satisfying conclusion, with the entire team pitching in to edit.

As for the R&D stuff we were planning to add, I, uh... went a little crazy and wrote 10k words for the pool scene. And since A) I'm not a native speaker, B) not as experienced a writer as the rest of the team, and C) I wrote the whole thing over 3 days in a fucking frenzy, it needs a lot of editing. We'll most likely split it into three R&D projects, even. And we're stretched a little thin with the Kota stuff, so we'll be moving it to 0.6.1.

Sorry for the disappointment, but I guess the good news is you guys are getting more content than originally planned and even though we promised we'd make small updates we still made a really meaty one.


*another bit of good news is that since everyone's busy editing I have the time to do stuff like redo Ismael's sprites and add a couple really big quality of life updates we'll be revealing next week.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, if the dev team needs an extra hand with anything I'm always willing to help. and don't sweat it, anything you guys pump out will be worth the wait :)

I'm too impressed and terrified by your ability to 10k words in three days to be disappointed tbh

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There are some choices that don't seem to have a gameplay impact, but have you establish elements of your MC's personality. Specifically, I'm referring to the prologue's "science can't explain the supernatural/science will be able to explain anything with enough data" choice and when talking with Greta, choosing between "I want to fulfill the hotels mission/I want to advance technology and society/I want money lmao". Those seem like pretty big choices for how the MC approaches the world that's left up to the player, yet I haven't seen an impact. Was there a plan to have the MC present a different personality based on these choices that has fallen to the wayside in favor of the 6 backgrounds being the main split? 

And I guess I'm the same vein, just how do you guys handle writing the MC? You touched on this in the build 0.4 Q&A that they have a kinda specific, almost _Chad_ personality, but how do you decide when the player picks a choice versus the MC just handling as part of their innate personality? 

And how do you adjust for the fact that renpy's easy rollback has someone picking a choice in a dialogue branch, reading the response, then rolling back to pick every other choice in turn? Obviously you disable that at some important points, but, like, do you factor in that the player does the rollback to your writing process and style and intentionally plan for it?

I guess in short, I think you have done one of the best jobs writing a 'blank'/no character sprite MC that I've ever seen, so how do you do it? Would you consider a devlog on it? 

Developer(+2)

I think a good way of answering these questions is by taking into account that we designed the game to get the player in a very specific mindset. 

Now, i don't think you need to look at our code (but it could help) to get an idea of how reactive minotaur hotel is to your choices. Writing a guide for minoh is borderline impossible because of how much crucial choices of the game depend on previous choices, and how small decisions snowball into bigger consequences. A huge decision such as who gets to the hotel (Nikos or Pedro) depends on do many previous choices that at most you can have directions on how to get to a particular outcome reliably, but everything else is now up in the air. 

And most of the big decisions have tradeoffs. We mentioned multiple times that it won't be possible to have all guests in one playthrough. 

So, knowing that you can't get everything, and that the best outcome for a lot of choices is subjective, and that your playthrough will always be affected by a myriad of small decisions, you start making choices that make sense to you. 

But, you know, the way this is feasible is if all the choices have small, cumulative impacts. A couple if-elses and small variable increases for a lot of small choices is manageable, but splitting the game into three big branches depending on the MC's philosophy when confronted by Greta? That becomes unfeasible. 0.3 was kind of a nightmare to write because there's a big deviation with the main character being abusive to asterion, we can't have sweet stuff happen when the MC has the day before sent asterion out to get tortured without coming off as videogamey. 

So, yes, there are choices in the game that could have a bigger impact than they do, but that would balloon the scope of the game to an unfathomable degree. I think an underwhelming amount of weight put into a handful of choices is a small price to pay for having the game get you into a habit of expecting responsiveness. 


To answer your other question, we joke about the Mc being a Chad but I think that's an exaggeration. VNs tend to go for more passive, reactive protagonists because it's more economical. Not giving your point of view character a lot of agency means you can get away with not giving him a lot of meaningful choices (that expand the scope of the game) while not having the player feel a big disconnect when the MC reacts in a way that makes you want to jump into the screen and punch him (though it still does happen). Because they don't get to act much in the first place. So, in comparison, yeah the Mc of minotaur hotel comes off as a very competent guy with a lot of agency and say over what happens in the story.

Dont get me wrong though, I'm not dissing other creators, making games is time consuming and we have a five person team writing this, whatever helps get your game across the finish line, you do you pal. 

(+4)

Thanks for the detailed response! I think your first point really does nail it and why Minotaur Hotel has been so engaging: it's not just the writing or the art or the music to put the player in a certain mindset, but even the timing of getting to choose something, no matter if it's a big choice or not, drives home certain mindsets and themes.

I had already been thinking about the times you get a choice on screen when it's the only one option and how that makes the player feel more engaged by actively getting to select it anyway, but even that is just a surface level interaction with the medium compared to something like after the kiss with Asterion: telling the player they have 3 options to stay in the moment and 1 to back away from it sets up their expectations that they get to enjoy the tender scene 3 more times before it ends. Yet when they think the moment has to be over because they've seen the 3 options and that's what renpy said they get, one more choice appears to reward and delight you because clearly the player wants to bask in the moment more, so why shouldn't they be able to? Renpy (and VN expectations) as a medium are a tool that can also be played with to drive home the themes and important messages, and it feels like so many VNs just let it be a delivery mechanism. Kudos to y'all for going above and beyond, it definitely shows.

Developer(+5)

Many choices in the game don't have consequences aside from the brief burst of variation that follows it. Some people would say this is bad game design, that all choices should have some impact, but I don't agree with that. Sometimes we throw in choices to let the player roleplay how they see fit, and some times the choices are precisely because we know they can check what the other branches are like. The differences in reactions between each branch can reveal important details about the characters.

And, sometimes, the choices are there to plant ideas in the player's head. In the case of the prologue they set the mood — the fact that you are given the choice at all to go with "science explains things/I've seen something supernatural" clues the player into what sort of story this is. If the MC answered this on his own it wouldn't stick in the player's mind so well. Same with Greta, her question is planting the idea that the hotel's powers can be used in creative ways for creative goals.

These choices are setup for the choices that do matter, which often times are the ones you'll do with the management mechanic.

It's hard for me to give you a full idea of the MC. There's a sort of trick going on with him, actually. We frame him as a blank slate self-insert, but as a writer I think that is fundamentally impossible to realize. No character can be a blank slate, except a literal vegetable. You see, whenever we make a "blank slate" what we are actually doing is picking a few traits and making them vague, while picking about a dozen of well-defined traits and pushing them away from the spotlight. For example, Link, Samus, Mario, even the protagonists of Dark Souls and Bloodborne, are "blank slates" but they are brimming with character — because what they do says a lot about them.

We have this going with the MC. In truth, the MC comes across as a sort of undefined person, but there's a lot to him that we just don't bring to attention. A few guidelines for the MC:

  • The narration should never say what the MC is thinking or feeling (but sometimes we let it slip, and that's a mistake.) What we can do is have the narrator go on about what someone would think, in abstract, but that's not necessarily what the MC is thinking.
  • The MC is a generally competent person. He's not necessarily excellent, but he's smart and skilled enough that he can at least be expected not to make things worse. Socially, he's outgoing when he wants to but generally reserved. He doesn't need to resort to violence because he can talk his way out of trouble.
  • The MC is never lecherous, or a pervert. Even in his most sexually charged moments, there has to be a sense of class, sensibility, elegance to him.
  • The MC's physical actions should, when applicable, convey a sense of subdued grace. This is often done by invoking some mythological and poetic motifs. He is not a clumsy person.
  • The MC is a profoundly humane and understanding person. He is capable of interpreting and understanding even very complex people, if given enough information to work with.
  • He is a man of action and communicates with deeds more than with words, and there is a high chance that he worked as a detective (or something like it) sometime in his life.

These things may not seem like much when presented in bullet points, but together they paint a somewhat well defined person. The MC, you could say, is a humanist both philosophically and metaphysically. He has made his life's mission to help lost people by giving them the basic conditions to flourish and heal emotionally. He believes in human rights, and in doing his part to make sure they are respected. He is morally upstanding, but not moralistic or imposing of his sense of ethics. He understands the importance of what he's doing, to others and Asterion, and when the narration is not aimed on him he probably gets emotional sometimes. And he has nothing, nothing, magical about him: he is human, and that alone is more than enough.

There's also another trick we do, but this only applies for players who navigate successfully through a lot of the game's hidden challenges: in truth, the MC has independent thought and there is a gap between what he thinks and what the player thinks, much like there is a gap between the player and Pedro. There are rare moments which few players will see where the narrative does not give the player a choice because the MC and Pedro already made a significant, substantive, deliberate choice for themselves.

So, is he truly a blank slate? Is it possible to write a true blank slate? Because when we put it like this, the MC is actually a well-defined character, but we omit the most obvious signs that this is the case.

Mind you, this ties with the rollback thing. It may not seem like it, but Minotaur Hotel is a detective story, except the real mysteries aren't expressly stated in the narrative itself. The rollback is there to let you play the detective and investigate things...

Now, look back at the guidelines for the MC's writing. Do you see the part I italicized?

We keep the rollback so the player can be like a detective; think ahead, build a hypothesis, test it as many times as necessary. The mechanic is there to push you towards trying to understand and investigate what's going on. The reason why you can forgive and hug Argos is to push you towards a more humane mindset. So, in truth, with all those things and more we are trying to project the MC's characterization onto the player.

Sorry if I rambled. I was trying to answer this question before having dinner, and I think the hunger made me a bit disorganized. Hopefully this makes sense.

(+2)

I think it made great sense! Thank you for putting in the time for the detailed answer.

This is awesome insight into the MC! It's amazing that you're encouraging the player to live up to the MC's standards rather than just hoping the player sees themself reflected in him, and it pays off as being super engaging. Coupled with how you play with the VN medium and choices in it, it really does pull the player to really engage with the content and do the detective work as well, since the MC is there waiting to reward them for doing it. Damn, you glorious bastards. That's why this project is something special.

(+2)

This is a very excellent way describing the MC. One of the things I love about it is how sublet the deliberate choices with the MC are.

In terms of the rollback feature, I would compare it to the time rewind mechanic of the first Life is Strange game except that it's more non-diegetic feature of the engine being utilized well by the team rather than a diegetic in game mechanic. You can use the rollback to see immediate outcomes for choices, but you cannot use it to change those choices much further into the narrative unless you reload saves with hours separating that choice and later outcome. And even with the skip feature (which LiS also has something similar) you still have to navigate other choices in between. It's a feature the devs expect most players to do but does not detract from the game or story and it makes for a fun experience exploring the mystery of the game.

(+1)

wow i dint know LiS did QoL, this make sme want to play it^^

(+1)

It's part of the gameplay in the first LiS. You can rewind time at the beginning of each map and go through different dialogue options for each character or new ones open up if you learned something from previous conversations from a now changed timeline. It also let's you skip through previously viewed dialogue during the conversation. The only time the game takes this away from you is a very tense and emotionally charged section where Max's powers for reasons never explained in the narrative just don't work (meta reason: for drama and Max's dialogue choices really matter with no "chance" to change the outcome which is very heavy). If you're interested in Life is Strange, I recommend giving it a shot. The first episode is free on Steam, and I think on other platforms.

(+2)

Will there ever be any plans in the future to add illustrative art for certain parts in the VN? Like when Asterion punched Hermes in the face, or the MC first time meeting Argos? Would be awesome to see some art of when Luke and Kota first stumble upon the Cobalts down in the bed rock and chase them around.

Developer(+5)

First of all:

But yes all of those are excellent ideas for illustrations, I would love to get around to them at some point. Especially Argos' introduction, shit the exit to the valley down the stairs seriously needs its own background and not just a picture of Monument Valley with a photoshop filter (in my defense I'm not American and I didn't get distracted by an otherwise instantly recognizable background that takes a lot of people out of the story). But I'm a busy dude, I suck ass at background art, and we have other priorities.

Will there be any consideration to hiring more artists to make CG's?

Developer

We'd rather avoid that, that creates clashing styles.

(+1)

What future content (that you can tell us) will be the most challenging to develop?

Do all members of the team know the whole story like the writers do?

Developer(+2)

Writing the scene where Argos explains the whole story about the Argoi will be extremely difficult because of all the variation associated with how the player solved the puzzles and treated Argos so far. It'll most likely have to be a collaboration between Nemo and I, because I know for sure I can't do it alone. There's also a bit of Luke content I've been meaning to write for a while, it will be a juicy challenge (of the non-sexual variety).

Overall, I'd say that the most challenging thing going forward will be making sure the external plot mixes just right with the romance story. What's going to happen is that in the next main chapters the MC and Asterion will be told about a task they would benefit from accomplishing, and then you'll be left to your own devices to finish it on time. After that the main story will focus a lot on the relationship between Asterion & the MC, while the management stuff deals with that task. Getting these two to mix narratively and mechanically, and have them lead up to the end of the game, will be a challenge. But I think we can manage.

Everyone knows where the story is going, but whoever's the writer for a given part is always thinking ahead so they're probably a few steps more advanced in what they know is going to happen. And, you know, while we have a rough idea of what's going to happen we are kind of like a jazz band, we adjust on the fly to hit the rhythm we want. So there're always a few surprised here and there.

(1 edit) (+1)

alright, so i want to know who in the cast is guilty of the crime of hand holding? how much fun do you have with fan theories that are absolutely wrong? how do you feel if they are somehow way to precise? has any theory caused an impact to make changes to the plot?

Developer(+2)

No theories made us change the story. Our philosophy is that if a reader pieced it all together and got it right then they deserve the satisfaction of knowing it. After all, we want people to play detective, and that means we have to play by the rules.

If you check the older threads on the forum you'll see this already happened with some people figuring out that Jean is Hermes, that P being a peacock connected him to the original Argos Panoptes. Both those points were even added to the Minoh Wiki as theories, and we consider them achievements as game designers. The game is supposed to be "beatable," and seeing a few galaxy-brained gigachads piecing it all together is the best confirmation we can have!

To be honest we have more fun when people get too close to the truth, rather than too wrong. Hypothetically speaking, some people can get things so wrong it impairs their capacity to enjoy or even understand the events of the story. But this is an extraordinarily rare occurrence, because our readers are very smart.

(+1)

While replaying the Hinterlands off stream on my own time, noticed a detail in the way Pedro's anatomy gets referenced and joked about that I didn't pick up initially though I'm still not clear on. Pedro has a retractable penis like some birds do (coiled penis?) so he has a slit/cloaca. My question is in reference to the joke Oscar makes about Pedro being a cunt and an asshole, does that mean that Pedro is very anatomically correct as a bird anthro as that he only has one orifice that houses both his anus and his penis (which he presumable can urinate out of as implied by the Ant Hill events)? I don't think I've seen an anthro bird depicted with just the one before.

My second lines of questions are based on your comment on Mc_Kenzie's question about is Asterion's undying existence. Will Asterion's feelings of watching a mortal's lifetime from birth to death and how he's coped with outliving the people he's help raise over the centuries be explored? We did have Asterion share the story of two former father and son masters with him having helped raise the son who eventually became his new master and the happy memories he has from them. But how has Asterion avoided becoming jaded like as some of the masters were when they told their children not to become attached to dogs because they will outlive their dogs? While it's been mentioned, will Asterion have an existential crisis at some point at the thought of the MC's inevitable passing and Asterion never (seemingly) being able to join the MC in death/afterlife?

As a more fun and lighthearted follow up question, does Asterion have training as a midwife? He mentions being there for Themba's birth. I like to imagine Asterion cradling a newborn Themba (who would likely be very large for a newborn).

And this may be a spoiler question, given Asterion's enjoyment of rearing children, would he eventually desire adopting and raising children with the MC? I personally don't have interest in raising children but the idea of Asterion's penchant for childcare is strangely attractive and would likely make him a very happy moo.

Developer(+1)

For now I want to leave Pedro's anatomy just a bit of a mystery, in case people want to write fan fictions about him and Oscar. That'd give them wiggle room to go with whatever they prefer.

And, yes, we will explore Asterion's feelings on the matter. That will be a central point going forward. Though it's important to note that... You know, gods in Minoh have a different perspective on the passage of time. A year is nothing to them, they can sleep it off with no issues. Asterion, immortal as he may be, still has the sense of time of a mortal. He knows not to get too attached (also because he doesn't expect staff to live their entire lives in the hotel), but sometimes he does.

Asterion has training as a midwife, yes, and in the right circumstances he would like to raise children. He would like that a lot, in fact, he may even consider retiring from the hotel for a few decades to really enjoy every moment of it. He'd be a great father.

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Giving Asterion a few years off to either be a stay-at-home father to raise children or even he and the MC entrusting the hotel to their most trusted staff with a mostly hands off approach so they can spend a few years raising a family is such a romantic idea.

Stay-at-home Moother; I couldn't keep that one to myself.

Developer(+2)

Yeah! Good leaders know how to delegate, and after Asterion gets it all back to its old glory no doubt he could take some vacations.

Work/life balance is important even for the undying.

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So it's shown that genitalia can be different among mythicals, does this mean other features of a mythical can be different? for example, there different versions of a gryphon, the most notable one that the paws of a lion

Developer(+1)

It depends on the mythical species, but there is variation.

In the world of Mino Hotel, for example, there are different lineages of gryphons, just like humans have race and ethnicity.  Despite Luke's alleged Greek heritage, genetically he's overwhelmingly native American in origin (from his mother's side) and mixed (from his father's side). But he does descend, distantly, from the Nemean Lion.

Grootslangs, on the other hand, have less variety because they were almost exterminated by the gods long ago. They try to keep themselves close-knit and discreet, so there aren't enough of them for their community to grow genetically vibrant.

Anyway, even then some traits may skip a few generations instead of disappearing. It's safe to say that, yes, some will be more animal-like or more human-like than others. Oscar and Asterion are a good example of that, as they are different anatomically in a very specific way. And some will have more magical properties too! Luke had more magic juice than his brothers, and Khenbish too.

Ironically, Themba is the one guest that has alternate patterns, you'd think his kind would have a wider range of genetic variability.

Developer(+2)

Hmm, yes... I do wonder why that's the case...

(videos only tangentially related)

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such teasing and chaotic energy

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a bit of a theoretical question here - in the labyrinth’s constitution, it is mentioned that the master can only be a human man. i was wondering how the labyrinth decides whether the master is a man, what would happen if the deed to the hotel was given to a mythical/non-man, and how do trans people come into the equation, if they do at all?

(i may have an idea to mod the game to change the mc’s pronouns, though from what i’ve seen of coding renpy it seems an exhaustive task, and the above mentioned lore makes it kinda fuzzy)

Developer(+2)

It's good to keep in mind that in-universe the Labyrinth's Constitution was written by someone, it didn't poof into existence out of nowhere. Someone thought out those details and made a conscious choice to phrase it that way, and that says something both about the person who wrote it and the what the times were like back then.

If the deed was passed on to a human female, or any person not born of human parents, it would not "stick". The transferal would not be effective, the previous owner would still be the de facto master, the alleged new owner would have none of the powers that come with it.

So... Someone made a conscious decision to forbid non-humans and non-men from being the Labyrinth's master. And, although that's not written in the Constitution, later masters made it even more restrictive by only passing its ownership to Catholics. You can say that's unfair and, yes, that's the point.

That said, there are confounding factors: there are plenty of loopholes for everything and the Labyrinth was created in the same age as the one where Hermaphroditus, Caeneus and Tiresias became mythological figures. Maybe the same gods who were associated with one of those figures had a hand in the labyrinth too? If so, it wouldn't be surprising if the Labyrinth has a concept of of maleness/femaleness as a state of being instead of an inborn trait. Or, even if it doesn't have that built in, maybe it can be made to think in that way.

Another thing I can add, very clearly and plainly, is that there was someone who worked in the hotel centuries ago, back when the Constitution hadn't been translated to a human readable state. This someone started presenting as a man during their stay in the hotel, and he had quite a story. He was one of the great explorers of the valley and, after many excursions, he had an epiphany.

I hope we can one day show a bit of it. He tried becoming the next master but, sadly, it became clear he would never be picked. But in the end he went on to achieve his ultimate goal, through other means.

Hopefully that sets you in the right trail, lore wise! But if that wasn't enough, I'll just say that they/them pronouns are not incompatible with being the master. That would not be an impediment...

but yeah lmao, editing the game for that would be a gargantuan task. One much harder than dealing with the lore hahaha

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a trans man in chapter 19 pog? /jk

with lore out of the question it's time to learn how to edit renpy texts, brb in two years

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This question isn't exactly a  0.6 related question but, Have the Dev team considered the possible weirded out reaction Oscar would have seeing Asterion and the MC being in a relationship? He lived his entire life neglected and unloved by humans after all and seeing another Minotaur being loved by a human could cause some conflicted feelings

Developer(+1)

Oscar will have that reaction often when it comes to Asterion. He fully expected the minotaur of legend to be a cannibalistic beast and he'll learn Asterion is nothing like that. It'll be a good shock, but a shock nonetheless.

That said, yes, Oscar has a very take on things. Regardless of his emotions towards P, Oscar would be mainly interested in getting close with other mythicals instead of humans. He'll be fine with the MC, because he's a very reasonable and respectable authority figure, but his sentiments are complicated.

Meanwhile Asterion actively enjoys humans in a way few do. The idea of dating one doesn't really cross his mind, he just really adores everything human.

as i recall it, build 5 finished ruthless route and then merged the neutral route into the good route. is that still going to be worked on? does the neutral route even elaborate on anything that you wouldn't see on good route, much like the appeal for doing the ruthless one?

Developer(+1)

We will go back to the neutral route and add content specifically to it, yes, but only waaaaaay down the road. We honestly haven't decided what to do with it. We have some solid ideas: just as example I do have a good idea for a poignant ending that can come out of it, with Asterion and the MC becoming platonic life partners, and we could use it instead to explore some ideas and scenarios that don't fit the main story.

Right now, though, the focus is on finishing the main story. Chances are we will get to the neutral one after that's done, and we will determine how it'll be like based on the state of the game then and how much energy/time we have available.

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A bit curious, since demon are counted as mythical do you think angels can be too? I think it can lead to an interesting scenario with robert

Developer(+1)

Yes, angels exist too in the universe of Minotaur Hotel. Robert deals with them somewhat regularly. He gets along with them well enough professionally, but not personally, they are just too different and removed from normal human beings for him to truly get along.

Ooo i see. What do angels looks like in this universe then? Are they just humanoid with a halo ontop of their head?

Developer

I'd prefer the Biblically-accurate sort with hundreds of eyes on ever-spinning rings.

But don't take this as canon. I don't think we will ever show them -- if and when we do, we'll decide definitively on what they'll look like.

i downloaded 5.1. I'm terrible at managing files what do i do when i download the update?

Developer

Thank you to everyone who participated in this thread! I'll be closing it up soon and, probably, I'll try to get all these questions and answers on a DevLog so we can be sure none of it will be deleted later somehow.

If you still have questions you can send them over the weekend and we will try to answer them, but after that the thread will be closed.

See you tomorrow during the release!

Deleted 110 days ago
Developer(+1)

For most people in the hotel they will only be aware that "it works". It "works" in the way that is most convenient to each guest. You'll hear things in the language you are most comfortable with, and accents will be "translated" into something equivalent in your language.

The thing is that the translation magic also makes it so people don't notice its hiccups. It is similar to the charms in this way, in the sense that it very slightly impairs your capacity to even perceive that it's happening.

If you are very aware like Asterion, however, you can notice its hiccups here and there.

Will we see any of the one off human characters make a return ?  The giant man that P and Storm interacted with in the town?   Mr. Boar's crush?  Etc.  

Developer

Some of the Hinterlands characters may pop up again! We plan on having a little episode where P returns there for some unfinished business if some conditions were met. The conditions are a bit complicated, though, so only people who really explored them should get this little adventure.

Greta is likely to make a return later in the game too. Who knows what she will be up to, though!

Some of the other characters may return, we will see. Not all, but a few.

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Here is a silly little question that involves the Asterion and his dreaded ongoing battle with eating utensils. He seems to know how to hold them properly, but his problem seems to be from the handle being too thin and flimsy for him to get a proper grip on them. So I was wondering will the MC ever touch back on this subject and try to make him some special silverware with larger handles for him to work with? Maybe in preparation for a candlelight dinner? Or is Asterion to just going to stick to finger food for the rest of his life?

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but at this stage of the game (before the new update) is it actually possible to finish Asterion's project? Because I've spent every possible moment working on it (except when the game forces you to work on something else for a bit) and I never quite finish it, it's always just nearly done.

I know this is something you'll eventually fix and get around to, but I don't want to 'waste my time' on it right now when I replay it, if it's not going to actually let me complete it.

I've been using the leader background, I'm not sure if that matters, but I thought I'd mention it.

Developer

You have to spend every available day with Asterion on his project.

If you picked Khenbish and he invites you to cook some stuff at the last day of Chapter 17 you have to reject his offer and spend that day with Asterion too.

So... Why are there moments when I get forced to do other tasks? I can't recall the exact circumstances of what happened, but I remember getting stuck (having) to do another task... :/

Or I'm just dumb and didn't see how to avoid doing it?...

Developer

You can reject Khenbish's offer. 

there is a day you can't work on the project because you are going with asterion underground, none of luke or robert hangouts are obligatory however

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That might be part of it? And I've never had Khenbush on staff, so... :/

I've only managed to get Luke, Kota, and Themba

And I don't think I had to do anything with Themba?

Developer

Are you sure you are keeping Asterion free on all days? You can't do his project if he's busy.

We calculated the number of hangouts to perfectly match the number of available days when it's introduced. It is possible to do it, but you won't be able to do anything else.

I guess I need to go replay it again (not that I'm complaining 🤣❤️) I guess I'm just messing it up

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I want to say thank you for having such a permissive view of mods/fan games. Here are some questions I have, as someone interested in making one.

1) Is it OK for a mod/fan game to use official promotional art (ex. from Nanoff's Twitter) as project assets (ex. pasting it into the project folder, incorporating it into the fanon story)? For example, the gym scene could really benefit from that pic of Asterion doing a modified Downward Dog, and a certain gif released earlier this month.

2) What type of accent do you picture Luke having? Considering he lived outside a red state for years and often communicates with people in the metro area, it's possible that he's accustomed to speaking with a more general American accent to strangers.

3) Is there an official reference for what Robert looks like without clothes? If not, what were the influences to his design?

4) Are the cobalts at or above the age of consent? They're allowed to work in a bar, but they have a bedtime.

5) If one were to be so lucky to have someone want to financially support a fan game/mod, would you be opposed to a fan game/mod maker placing their donation link on the download page and accepting Itch.io tips?

6) When you licensed the music, did the terms allow the music to be distributed through derivative fan games? I want to know if removing/replacing the music is needed to avoid any chance of copyright infringement.

One more thing: Luke is a gold mine. There's so much to work with.

Developer

1. It's good, go ahead! Just be careful if you are using assets made by people outside the team, as their use hinges on them authorizing it.

2. I think he likes his own Texan accent and makes an effort to keep it.

3. He looks like a sort of Doom-esque demon. His skin has that magmatic-esque texture to it. He has internal genitalia that comes out when he's aroused.

4. Kota's update hints at this just a tiny bit, but it's best not to assume a mythical's age by their appearance or size! The cobalts look tiny and act in very silly, childish ways because that's just their nature, but in truth they can live very long lives (in Minotaur Hotel-verse. Their fate may be much shorter in other settings.) Don't be surprised if the goofy little cobalts are much, much older than they seem like.

5. As a rule of thumb, if the mod has no issues like copyright infringement, illegal content, malware, does nothing ethically shady, then we'll probably be alright with people accepting tips on their pages. On principle I quite enjoy the idea of honest modders getting tips, and in fact I've explicitly told a few of them that it's alright and perhaps they should do it. But we'll hold the right to reject this, if we deem there's something possibly negative or harmful going on.

Another way to put it is that if it's made with love and respect, it should be good. For all of the mods/fan games currently on our collection we would have no issue at all if they accepted tips. But if a modder wants to know for sure you can just contact us wherever is most convenient for you and ask.

6. The license does not cover fan works. Sadly. Neither does it cover people posting on Youtube via Let's Plays, which IMO is one of the main flaws with the service we used.

However, if you are working on a MOD that PATCHED on top of the base game, you are not distributing the songs. You'll be in a good legal position. That is to say that if you are making a mod that's put on top of Minotaur Hotel, you can use the songs that are already in the game with no issue.

There's only one important question to ask: Will we get to pet the moos?

Jokes aside, I wanted to ask if we will get to know a bit more about our legal demon and our loyal accountant in the future updates, they had quite a start and I'm quite intrigued by them.

On a more curiosity only side, just how much does Khenbish know about cooking overall? I know it is a very vague question so feel free to answer as you see fit.

Good work on the project so far MinoTeam, I'll be excitedly waiting to see where you take the project.

Developer(+1)

We will get to know more about Robert and Themba, absolutely! I have some fun ideas for Robert in particular.

Khenbish knows more than you would guess from the limited access to information he has, but crucially he's a quick learner. As soon as he joins the hotel's staff he picks up online courses to learn as much as he can as quickly as possible.

Hey I just got the new build. Why cant I continue off my last save for the end of chapter 18?

Developer

We explained this on the devlog and on the notification that pops up on the top of the title screen. Build 0.6.0 adds the content for Kota's hangouts, which can be accessed through the Management system.

Developer locked this topic