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MalPerMeCheMaffidai

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A member registered Mar 20, 2020

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If an English answer from KangaRube is ok:

He may be a bit too clumsy on a controller to get the hang of an action game. But he would probably, if just watching an LP or the MC play it, start just doing literary comparison between the game and Homer and Aeschylus--- start talking about how different authors treat hubris, contrasting different depictions. Making a bit of a study of it.

(though maybe the later, more pensive and walking around based God Of War games would be more his speed)

1: This link to the forum was posted previously regarding fanart/fiction/etc, and is still relevant: https://itch.io/t/1900768/modding-fan-games-megathread

2: There was a free site where we mined royalty-free music from, and it just took sitting down and listening to every damn thing that came up with the keywords you searched to find something. Sometimes it took a while. Additionally, there used to be a not free but pretty cheap music licensing site, where we got quite a bit of the more "iconic" music used in the game, that is unfortunately now defunct. We also have a few really really good composers and musicians on-call for when we need something bespoke (Eymon and Heck, just to name two off the top of my head).

So we just try to think of what the vibe is we need/want, and then just sort of have to scour for it, or else describe it well enough to commission it.

3: For this, also, we have a link ready! A while ago, we put together a kind of beginners'-guide-to-getting-started, gathering together a bunch of pointers and encouragement, in three parts. They can all be found linked at the bottom of this page https://wiki.minotaur.gay/index.php/Minotaur_Hotel%27s_Writing_Manual

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1: Writing dialogue for Asterion is always something that I feel right doing, and putting some more poetic voice on him. Additionally, there is a couple who is not yet a couple in game who are kind of compelling just for how as we write them, they just seem to uncontrollably trip into eachother. It is just sort of cute.

2: Framing it as a "Sexy redemption arc" specifically gives me pause. There are a lot of mythological creatures the world over that could be interesting to include: kushtaka, shen, faoladh, Jambavan, selkies, and aleximenos-graffito-donkeys-extrapolated-to-mythicals, etc... But I am not sure if any of them need sexual redemption specifically. Haha

3: Something to the effect of "a VN that feels like how Dark Souls safe-area-music feels (and gay)" was always some kind of goal, at some scale or another.

1: When it comes to researching particular mythical creatures for potential inclusion in the game, we always want to have at least a few solid well attested old texts about them. Sometimes it IS a little hard to find a source that works, and also provides some thematic jumping-off-points. 

2: Both Wattson and Nanoff really are the stars of actually making really good use of sprites and blocking for expressive purposes in VNs, and they really do/did a commendable job making it all feel like a real play of sorts. Sometimes it is a lot of work, and I personally have only done some rudimentary stuff with it, but those two have been wizards with really making sprite action expressive.

3: As Mino said, Asterion would have extremely grandparent tastes in internet stuff. He would with complete naive sincerity, every thursday, post Feliz Jueves!!! : r/evangelion

To briefly answer 1:

First Crete got on Athens' bad side in the 700s BC or before, and many things were written to make Crete sound unsavoury. Then around the 600s BC, Stesichorus wrote the Geryoneis. Then around the 500s BC, Sappho wrote many poems. Then in the 1800s AD, George Frederick Watts painted the minotaur. Then in the 1930s, Pablo Picasso made The Vollard Suite. Then in the 1940s, Jorge Luis Borges wrote The House Of Asterion. Then in the 1980s, Toni Morrison wrote Beloved. Then in the 1990s, Anne Carson wrote Autobiography Of Red. And then in the 2000s, a bunch of weirdos made Morenatsu.

Then we all variously found these things and then started Minotaur Hotel.

Not giving identity away here, but our backgrounds/educations are:
-Biology.
-Law and diplomacy.
-Film and contemporary-art.
-English.

And the English one was not a classics-concentration. So none of us are really trained here. I always did enjoy classics, though, and independently read Sophocles and Shakespeare and Stesichorus for fun--- so I just sort of have that background casually. Haha. The others have brought their reading, and their backgrounds, into what they have added too.

I would not exactly say difficult, in most cases. We try to find the oldest possible primary poem source for whatever (like, say, using how Hades seems/acts in The Homeric Hymn To Demeter as a basis for characterization, and trying to only extrapolate a reasonable amount from stuff like that), and see how that fits.

Then also sometimes, if it can provide a more interesting result, we go into more archaeological detail, cross-referencing with what later writers say about things, and so on (such as books on prehistoric Crete). So there is some of the regular Greek pantheon based on poetry, some nods to the local gods of Crete based on archaeology (where almost no readable writing survives), and try to combine them in ways that seem interesting or like they reveal some striking idea. Or something like that. 

It is more just a process than it is difficult. A long series of "Does that work? How does that feel? Does that mean anything?" in order to find something which fits and works and resonates, while trying to avoid as many received-through-pop-culture understandings of things as possible. The most difficult it gets is when I know I read something somewhere, but I cannot find the exact location of a quote. Haha.

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KangaRube here: I really hope this does not sound like just writing off your question, but we did all put together a kind of "here are some ways to get started, to think through some things, and gain some confidence" guide a while back:

It is in three parts--- which can be accessed from here (this wiki page just also has a list of the topics included in each part, in case you wanted to hone in on one particular element first, and you can see a "table of contents") https://wiki.minotaur.gay/index.php/Minotaur_Hotel%27s_Writing_Manual

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KangaRube here:

1

"Surprising"... hum... To give one particular thing, something that actually surprised me is finding out through researching for Khenbish that apparently there is a really big opera culture in Mongolia. In the Soviet era, the Soviets just kind of thought "oh, you guys already have a culture of mannered singing to be heard over great distances... we'll build opera houses here." And it took off in popularity, with the Ulaanbaatar opera house putting on both the usual repertoire, but also some major Mongolian operas, based on their own history/stories/mythology. It was just something that made me go "Huh? What?"

Perhaps more significantly, there is something that I am not sure exactly how to articulate--- something like that the ancient sources from which we draw really are "that good", that modernized retellings (even good modernizations that are worthwhile in themselves) never really hold a candle to the depth of passion and vision in those ancient originals; they are more often than not more complex and more accessible than one might at first think. "We are merely standing on the shoulders of giants", etc. That is why I have said a few times that if Minotaur Hotel inspires some people to pick up a few translations of Sappho, a copy of Homer's Iliad, Hesiod's Theogony, etc--- that would be Mission Accomplished to me. Haha.

2

Probably Greta? Some people sort of honing in on her and making fanart or memes of her, even if it is just for the lulz, still makes me chortle. But most of all, I just find it kind of sweet that it seems everybody is somebody's favourite. 

3

 Regarding the third question, a long while back, I actually had thought about this in the context of opera, and thought of a few singers for various characters. For Asterion, I assigned the basso John Tomlinson. Here is a good example in English of his singing, the first bit of "Wondrous Machine" by Henry Purcell at 5:03 of this video: 

(although a guy speaks over some of it and it fades out. For some reason the video of JUST his performance is no longer available on youtube(?!?!?!), so this will have to do for now...)

Tomlinson just has a great warmth and sensitivity, as well as dramatic intensity; he even also has experience playing a minotaur in the Harrison Birtwistle opera.

With the help of a time machine, too, I would probably cast someone like tenor Franco Corelli as Luke--- just this big brash pushy kind of voice. 

... Or maybe Ramon Vinay, a personal favourite tenor, who is more dark/dramatic. Or maybe Vinay would be a better Pedro (who also should be a tenor).

As for the others, I only thought so far as voicetypes. Argos would also be a tenor. Kota, Storm, and Khenbish probably baritones. Themba is another bass. And the cobalts all altos/countertenors. Greta a coloratura soprano, of course (Reri Grist, perhaps?). And maybe resurrect Maria Callas for Piedade, the Colonel's Widow.

I would kind of hope for something composed kind of chamber-opera-y, maybe invoking really early opera things to make it feel especially "ancient" in tone, combined with more modern elements. Employ 12-tone-rows for big scary moments, have a fair number of uncommon instruments to show the bringing together of various guys across the globe. 

KangaRube here: I think reading "House Of Asterion" when we were teenagers many years ago broke something in the brains of Minoanon and I forever (and also I think Nanoff, who is Argentinian like Borges). So we have been stuck with that percolating in us for a long time.

Then there was the novel-in-verse by Canadian poet Anne Carson "Autobiography Of Red", which I pointed Minoanon to at some point. To my memory, this was either one of the things that dominoed into the starting of Minotaur Hotel, or it might have been suggested after he wrote the preliminary 4chan quest. He had been trying to write a kind of semi-mythic story for a long while before a bunch of things just sort of came together into Minotaur Hotel. So I guess to answer the actual question: It is sort of both.

But we are all avid readers, and draw a lot from our influences. The game is built on a great many quotations, paraphrases, and references, that come from an extremely wide range of poetry and novels and philosophy and music (but have a concentration on Ancient Greece and the Ancient Mediterranean as a whole).

Also, sometimes we do have a character arc or bit of a plot in mind, but want to tie it together with an appropriate poetic conceit--- those are times when the study comes posterior to the story, rather than the story springing up from the study.

KangaRube:

Just because the main character and Asterion "finished" does not make it the end. Haha

KangaRube here: Theatre is probably a bigger direct influence than any VNs were. Starting in earnest around Covid lockdown era, I mostly was thinking of this kind of like a little play. Putting on a show with my friends. So I thought about Chekhov plays I had read or been to as a kind of reference on how to write, and thinking about what sort of actions could be added to dialogue to deepen subtext, and how blocking could affect it all.  Even the design process for sprites can be a fair bit like directing actors. 

So the writing of Chekhov, Shakespeare, and obviously also Aeschylus and Sophocles--- their handling of structure and character interactions had a lot of influence.

And from cinema, there is a lot to get from "mise-en-scene" directors and slow-cinema. Directors like Andrei Tarkovsky or Kenji Mizoguchi, who often stick to a single take for most of a scene, have an obvious connection to how most of a VN looks/acts. Those two above-mentioned directors have been a big inspiration and influence on what I try to bring to our paper doll play. Not to mention Cassavetes--- I have always thought there needed to be more of that kind of scruffy intensity in VNs, and still would like to aim to have that.

Yes.

Chapter 20

Well shucks.

Thank you for reading it-- and clearly taking time with it-- and letting yourself into it. We're really glad that it touched you in a personal way like that; testimonies like this are always great to here. Sincerity isn't silly.

The overall humanitarian angle is important to us here, and we want the hotel, and by extension the game, to be able healing from trauma. A home for the lost, for the meek and downtrodden. Responding to injustice with upbuilding, understanding, and a will to improve things is just-- the only thing one can do.

(And there's a lot of damn fine prose-poems of incredible compassion (and great Ancient-Greek-literature) in the new testament: the Beatitudes, The Adulteress Story, the Mark and Matthew Passions, Paul's 1 Corinthians 13, etc.)

We're glad it means so much to you, and we're glad to hear from you. Messages like this do a lot to put wind in our sails.

And-- Robert's story might be a bit away, but it's coming. Don't you worry. :3

Also, do not feel the need to denigrate or apologise for your shitposts. Considering the inclusion of strange and threatening memes within the game itself-- there is a place for that.

Thank you for your time-- KangaRube.

I remember seeing a Chinese translation get made, and there were a lot of people in the forum/comments of that translation. So there's a big audience there that's sort of invisible.

https://x.com/nanoff94/status/1765141840783606090/

Image
Image

Not mine, but worth posting

Morning star

https://www.furaffinity.net/view/52954160/

Big and chunky... and floppy ears...

Oh, exploitable...


So there is a poll on tumblr that I only just thought should be posted here-- about selecting the ideal furry husband, and Asterion is on it! Today battling against Wolf O'Donnell from Starfox.

There's only 10 hours left to vote, if anyone here has a tumblr account!

https://www.tumblr.com/bestfurryhusband/741140663058448385/wolf-odonnell-star-fo...

Beautifully captures that chapter of the Hinterlands. Adorable and extremely heartfelt.

Get that man a drink

Eddio+Minoanon must give us the gayer, furrier Desert Bus

Wisdom.

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Maybe just because he plays the title role in the opera The Minotaur, but John Tomlinson feels like a good fit for Asterion's singing voice:

but he does have a real good low voice-- warm and resonant, rich but gentle. Suits Asterion.

P, Argos, and Luke are definitely tenors. Kota, Storm, and Khenbish probably baritones. Themba is another bass. And the cobalts all altos/countertenors. But I can't think of any direct reference-points for them. Haha

(And be sure to get an Aulos too, so it can be like the music that accompanied Aeschylus/Sophocles/Euripides plays (which were themselves musicals or operas))

On the "tool maintenance" screen, the buttons and crank seem to do nothing (restarted a few times, same issue).

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When installed using wireless sideloading, I get a "file not found" error. Should I try sideloading it via usb?

Edit: Installing through usb made it work. Although it crashes if you kill all the kids.

Really great little visual novel, but I keep encountering an error where, after the music changes, the textbox and location transitions chug a whole lot, running at 2 frames per second. This happened with all the times I tried playing through it so far.

Poor Jack, et al, they don't know the infernal screaming is... just talkin'...

Out of nowhere, youtube suggested the following to me:


So I thought I was obligated to post this Jazz arrangement of the Seikilos Epitaph.

If you don't mind me asking, what in particular did you perform for the king and his pike-men? I'm not asking for a recording of you in particular, but I am just curious what it was you did.

Oh no, now everyone's pregnant...

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Part 10


(complete with a stop-in from developers)

I don't know if this has been posted before and I didn't notice, but,


https://www.furaffinity.net/view/50177228/

Dear god...

well i HATE HIM???? >:C FUCK THTA HGUY