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Khenbish Discussion!

A topic by Minoh Workshop created May 08, 2022 Views: 3,210 Replies: 54
Viewing posts 1 to 21
Developer

A general thread to discuss Khenbish's update, from serious talk to goofy shitposts and jokes. Have fun!

(+2)

but i already did that elsewhere, *quickly thinking something to say* he is aboarable

Developer

There's actually something I wanted to ask, considering you witnessed the fourth hangout. Do you think the scene with Tuan goes for too long? We aren't sure if we hit the "sweet spot" of length there.

(+1)

Well, it is too long if you pick every option yes, but you can skip through if you select the last options so that's nice. From my experience with VNs, i find that interactive sex scenes can be fun the first time but then become obnoxious to go through each time you want to try different interactions of the story, yours at least get the avert eyes option, but Asterion's kiss suffers from having too many subsequent options at once. If you want an example of how much interactivity and variations a sex scene should ideally have, i recommend checking out "Burrows" latest update on Mark's route, to spoil a bit if you don't have the time there's 4 big variants, one being a solo and 3 fantasizing about different characters. I do give big points for animating the scene, that's an extra step few VNs have started doing and is still very uncommon. I do, however, want to point out that i don't know the average reader preferences for these scenes, so my one opinion doesn't account for deciding if scenes should have more or less interactions going forward.

Developer(+1)

Thanks! Excellent points, I took note of them. And I do plan on playing Burrows soon, I've been meaning to for a while.

Yeah, Burrows is rather new and is one of the best VNs i came across. One more thing i thought of is that the Khenbish scene having so much interaction goes with the theme of indulging in excesses, so if you didn't do that in purpose you can claim that was the intention the whole time.

Developer(+3)

I actually can say we did that on purpose! We were smart enough for that. Doing something horny and thematically appropriate went hand in hand.

(+3)

Not wanting to intrude or anything, but I felt the length of the scene was warranted. Put it in the context of Khenbish thinking back on a moment in time, a "missed opportunity", fantasizing about how his first sexual experience could have been, all the different things he wished he could try and all that. I specially like how the scene builds up, starting shy and exploratory slowly gaining confidence and gathering momentum for a satisfying climax. 

I've only given it a run so far, but I liked Khenbish's hangout scenes. They were quite fun to read and relatable, how unique his situation is. I particularly enjoyed the restaurant outing, the hotel magic struck again XD. The particulars of Khenbish's curse were interesting, it was different from some of the other courses we have seen so far and yet it makes sense overall. I'll play it over in other routes to see what I may have missed.

(+1)

So, the master could have field trips the whole time and didn't try going out to that artwork they liked?

Closer to topic I kind of like their dad.  Funny how many complain about "vilifying" God when Noah's Ark is right there in print for all to see.

Bit stray but is everyone getting stuff like this before we see the next main chappy?

Developer(+2)

>is everyone getting stuff like this before we see the next main chappy?

Nope! We're going to have a couple more updates like this one (albeit shorter, we went apeshit with Khenbish because he doesn't get much to do in the main story otherwise), but we'll definitely get chapter 19 out before everyone's hangout routes are finished. We've had enough time to rest after 0.5 and to plan where the last third of the main story is going. 

I'm not sure how spoiler-out we can get in this thread, so I'll just say: I wonder what was in that package he got in the last hangout, I never found out? Would I have if I'd had other, non-Khenbish details, arranged differently?

(+3)

I was low key worried it was something of a sex toy, his father would find out about Kenbish sexuality from that and cut connections because of it and the gods made hotel realm.

(+3)

I got the impression that Altan's "I have a... friend... who has a gay son, and he's really hardworking and (list of qualities that could describe Khenbish) and he's worried about what his father will think if he finds out" speech to the  MC was a "yes, I know, but I can't openly know until he decides to tell me."

(+1)

That was the talk after, my alarms were going off before that. From his interaction with Robert to actually meeting with his son.

Developer(+2)

You can go full hog with the spoilers here.

(+1)

Khenbish has inspired me to look up Mongolian food more:

This grilled-noodle dish looks so damn good.

In my aimless research, I also found out that opera, oddly enough, takes a big part in Mongolian culture-- "In Mongolia, all men wrestle, and therefore all men sing"-- I wonder what sort of stuff Khenbish would sing

Khenbish makes pizza for his younger siblings:

:3

in the last khenbish path, did the father mention robert  using a charm to disguised as a demon? so humans can get charms too? or im just reading it wrong?

It was a passing theory.  I think he mentioned a smell.

Have you read the Robert conversations yet?

not yet, ill try to read that part later after im done with the VIP stuff or add content

(+6)

When Khenbish was initially introduced, I kinda wrote him off as a homophobic hypocrite (albeit the mildest case I've ever seen) since I have a lot of personal baggage towards that archetype. I then had a conversation with either Nanoff or Carbon that led me to realize I should try to be less judgmental about it and consider the global context, so I resolved to keep an open mind. This update proved me so wrong. This is the third time (after Luke and Nikos) this vn has taken a character I disliked and made me really like and care about them. To me this is evidence of the strength of the writing. I also realized Khenbish and I aren't so different after all. I felt catharsis during the Tuan stuff and the conversation between Khenbish's dad and the player. Bravo.

Oh.  Will there be more words about the whole truffle thing?  Like why they thought Kenny wouldn't be affected.

Developer(+2)

Probably not. I feel that we already gave enough hints for people to be able to piece it all together.

(+1)

I haven't figured that out myself. Maybe because the curse is expected to not allow him that pleasurable experience? Though I want to say that maybe it's a "you totally won't go crazy for that musky man smelling mushroom, my straight alpha son of mine" implication.

(+1)

I really like Khenbish's sex scene with Taun, both the narrative device of Khenbish fantasizing what he would do in that scenario as a way to accept his sexuality and the animated sprites that went with it. Seeing the dick impression in Khenbish's cheek when he would go down on Taun, and then it fading as he moved back, it all looked great! (Would've been nice to see some cum considering the AMOUNT that was described, but still good nonetheless) Also, the way Robert and Atlan were getting along when they met, as well as Atlan's off-hand comment that he'd've fucked guys just outta spite to the gods, am I alone in thinking they got chemistry? Maybe only in Khenbish's worst nightmares would he imagine it but I think it's cute.

(+7)

Asterion showing up to help Khenbish with archery while dressed like this was a mistake.

Developer(+4)

This is the fashion you chose.

(+4)

How dare you

Developer(+11)

Drew a little something to celebrate the boy getting his route finished

(+2)

SUS Scrofa...

(+3)

(Disco Elysium) Me whenever I'm around Khenbish and he does his boyfriend face:



(+5)

loved the update, and some lines got me thinking about the themes of the story overall. specifically, the way both khenbish and asterion have a scene where they say out loud "i want", the focus on the desire, and the way powers above refuse it for us. the way we internalize this refusal, and ourselves refuse to act on the desire. the desire to do what we want. the desire to be happy. the desire to have gay sex. (/hj)

luke and his yearning for intimacy and kota and his self-imposed refusal to open up to people about onsen also fit into the theme i think, so i might be onto something :p

tuan's scene was maybe a little too long, that was already mentioned. however, i LOVE how it could be read as less so khenbish daydreaming about the sex he could have had, but instead an act of self-worship, where tuan is the ideal khenbish strives for

two more things: "why yes, i do have an appreciation for the male gender, thank you for noticing" is such a great line, and i love how the mc and khenbish ended up in the gayest restaurant in france

I'm curious if we will be seeing a short jealousy arc with Asterion after going through the pool bar scene stuff.

Just something that i wondered about, why does the pina drink considered a bottom drink

Probably because it's not "manly," ie, it's sweet and fruit flavored. I don't know about the rest of the world, but in America the stereotype is that tops are masculine and bottoms are feminine, and that sweet drinks are feminine.

While I could imagine there being some kind of "drink code," meant for clandestine flirting and hookups, in which different drinks mean specific things similar to hanky code, I could find no evidence of this being the case.

(1 edit) (+4)

Sorry for the english.

I loved Khenbish's content! He is a character that is very useful mechanically speaking, but he is also very good for the story, he gave me the same taste that Asterion gave me, a cute character, with a good heart, externally a little intimidating and very reflective, always thinking about your past and how to move forward. Honestly, after reading his content, I'm thinking more seriously about having relationship options other than just Asterion.

Oh! I almost forget, I laughed out loud every time Kota appeared in the background while Kenbish's father talked about the gods, congratulations that was very good!

(Edit)
Not only the Kota joke, but other things like the truffles (which even made me stop for almost 3 hours to do research) were very well placed tools, all Khenbish content was very well tied together so that you understand the reason for the references of the story.

(+2)

I finally caught up and it was wonderful to see more to what kenbish offered story wise. I was a shock on the first day on the route to see what he knows specifically about the hotels magic. It was heart tugging to get into his mind about battling his own feelings and balancing his wants and needs vs his obligated duties. And the connection from what his father said about what god cursed them and what kota said during his route is interesting. Something im sure the creators put in to get us thinking. Overall loved the amount of writing put into his character, and seeing him grow to be another fan favorite with the cast.

(1 edit) (+6)

So I just read Khenbish's content and I really like it! I find Khenbish to be really relatable and I like the development he gets in this update. I felt kind of weird about the erotic scene. On the one hand, I felt like the scene was really long on the other hand I wanted to select all the options and really invest myself into the text. I don't know what to think of it. I also feel like the CG provided should have been rotated because right now the text box covers Khenbish's face so you have to press the H key to look at him sucking Tuan's cock (I provided an edit to how I think the CG should have been presented). I also would have liked to have seen some cum. I do like Tuan though, he's a nice mentor to Khenbish and it was sweet reading the erotic scene between the two. I also liked Khenbish's father. At first I thought he was going to be really terrible but he turned out to be a decent guy. Overall great work!

Developer(+3)

Why didn't I think of this

In any case thanks for the response Chellay, we're taking all this feedback to heart for when we do make a sex scene between Asterion and the MC (oh it's happening), glad we had this opportunity as a test run to see what works and what doesn't

Keep up the good work!

(+4)

So I just finished Khenbish's route. Before this build I went with Themba, and never tried out Khenbish at all, so it was good to see him with a  fresh perspective. He's quickly become one of my favourite characters. He has a heart of gold, I wanted him to grow as a person and I guess you could say he's a real "protagonist". Having said that, I felt his route had a real melancholy to it, and was a little anticlimactic maybe? He begins the route feeling lonely, confused and carrying lots of weight on his shoulders, by the end he's less confused, less burdened, but still lonely. I felt sad for him during the drinking game because it's evident he really wants to drink to these questions. Even his scene with Tuan felt sad because, important as it was for his growth, it was still a fictional account of an intimacy he wishes he had. I wanted the end of his route to be a little more hopeful towards his relationship status, I really hope he can find someone to call his own, I liked the idea that one guy had about shipping Khenbish with Storm. 

Finally, I'm curious as to the kind of research that went into making this route. I read somewhere the devs had a friend from Mongolia whom they used as a point of reference for Khenbish and his story, is that true? I know very little about how homosexuality is perceived in Monoglia and this route had me curious to learn more.

One more thing, I still don't understand all the memes where Khenbish says "horny". He didn't say that when I played, did I miss some key dialogue?

(+3)

I feel the memes mostly refer to his reactions whenever anything sexual was mentioned, but mainly during the drinking game. People just exaggerate it a bit for comedic effect and, perhaps, because up untill now people didn't have much to go by about his character and why he acted like that.

Developer(+4)

Usually we prefer to either write about cultures we had contact with personally or about which we can consult with a native of said culture. Mongolia was the most challenging one because we didn't have any of these options. We have a friend who studied with a Mongolian exchange student (who's not a furry) and that was far from ideal.

To compensate we had to double down on the research. We read reports from NGOs and civil rights activists that outlined the issues LGBT Mongolians face in the job market, and that the population at large responds well to awareness raising campaigns because they just don't understand basic things like LGBT people being born this way. We mixed that with the mythological family history we came up for Khenbish. We also read a lot of Mongolian poetry to bake some of it's literary style into the narration, and watched movies about the country.

I don't know if our portrayal is fully accurate. Sadly I don't think accepting parents like Altan are as common as people would wish. But as you can see we weren't working in our ideal conditions and had to make do. Hopefully we were good enough and one day a young Mongolian LGBT will have a good time reading Khenbish's story.

Now, about the melancholy in Khenbish's route... It's worth keeping in mind the game's not over yet -- so who knows what's coming next? Regardless, Khenbish is a young man figuring himself out. He's doing it at his own time and speed. When you consider everything he's been through (including his self-discovery and helping his loving family) I'd say he's doing pretty great.

(1 edit)

I did think Altan was something of an optimistic outcome of how a Mongolian father would react to having a gay son. Nothing wrong with a bit of optimism and hope in a dreary world though. And indeed, the game is not finished yet, hmm...

Developer(+5)

Oh it definitely is not the most likely outcome, unfortunately. I think it's somewhat justified considering his particular family history of being fucked over really hard by divine mandates, he's in a position where he's a little more open-minded than usual about breaking with orthodoxy.

To address your original post, Khenbish acts a little differently in the drinking game if you don't complete his route, which is where a lot of the memes come from (since he didn't have a lot of scenes aside from that one, his intro and some R&D/exploration interactions). There's a funny story about this: I had originally written the scene with the dialogue you now get after his route is finished, where he's more open about his experiences (we didn't have all the kinks of the character straightened out yet); but Minoanon did a couple rewrites to make him more reserved and critical of the other guests (which was a good call and is the version everyone read before this update). For the latest build I dug up that old version and put it back in if the right conditions are met.

I thought the implication that Khenbish's mother may not be as accepting of homosexuality since she's more religious (likely because she doesn't have to personally deal with the curse) was a nice touch to balance Altan's tolerance of it. I imagine his mom would still love him and "accept" him but in that uncomfortable way where she thought he was going to hell regardless. Which is one of the reasons why Altan wanted Khenbish to find himself away for something that would weigh on him like that.

I noticed some of the changes in the drinking game when I played it following Khenbish' route though looking at the script, there seems to be one thing that was added in that doesn't seem possible which is in regard to a change in Khenbish's responds to Robert's drinking question. It doesn't seem possible to have Robert recruited and Khenbish' path fully completed before the drinking game, I seem to be two days short to be able to do it.

That's correct. It's impossible to do both in the same playthrough. I posted somewhere in the forum a calendar for management days 

Ok, so that bit of Khenbish dialogue is currently inaccessible in game. :(

Ah, this! This is very useful to look at available hang outs at a glance.
Post by TrinexxSlayer in More Manegement Days - itch.io

yes, that's the one. i wasn't home, so looking it up was a little annoying

Yall are truly a gift to the LGBT community. Nothing but representation in the game, even though you're drawing animals and not dark skinned humans, haha.

so like um quick question again, did khenbish did have coitus with Tuan? or is it just his fantasy ? since when i play the bar scene he didnt drink on some of it  :( so i was  surprised or i did something wrong to not trigger a hidden dialouge? 

(1 edit)

That didn't happen, he was only thinking back and fantasizing how things could've gone if he had accepted Tuan's offer. Afaik the changes to his dialogue during the drinking game are more subtle, but you can notice he isn't as shy or uncomfortable about certain topics if you have progressed enough with his hangout scenes.

(+1)

oh i see, too bad it didnt happen but i hope he gets shagged soon, he kinda wants it