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Minotaur Hotel

Meet the minotaur and manage a magical hotel in this 18+ visual novel. · By Minoh Workshop, nanoff

[Build 0.2] Feedback and Criticism Sticky

A topic by Minoh Workshop created 71 days ago Views: 1,158 Replies: 36
Viewing posts 1 to 11
Developer(+1)

Hello everyone.

This time we have a Feedback Form through which people can give us their input on how to improve the story. But we figured sometimes discussion is necessary, which is why we have this topic. Here you can point out issues, discuss how you think Minotaur Hotel can be improved and even offer kind words about the game.

As a final reminder, you can also offer your overall opinion on the game by leaving a review -- better yet if you leave a comment explaining what you like/dislike, so we can improve.

(+2)

I loved the update. One thing I would like to see is the bond with Asterion and the mc effecting the story.  Also when they get closer, Asterion starts to get a back bone and has a protective side over the mc. 

(+1)

This is a very nothing sort of comment. But I think the proper term in this spot would be "international organization" or "international coalition (?)". Organism makes it seem like some living creature is all. But I do love the game and the little touches like this!

(+1)

Frankly I may need spent more time to stay with Asterion. It's good to discover more about him. Good progression can't wait to see more.

(+1)

Game crashes shortly after the selection of "someone fun" or "somenone classy". Reloading the save file to for example the section of the "contract negotiations" doesnt seem to help either. Do I have to start from the beggining or is there some bug :) ?

Developer

Hello! Sorry for the inconvenience. It seems like you are experiencing a known issue. Save files from Build 0.1 that weren't late enough into the game have that issue. Below is a way to fix it -- go back to Build 0.1, make sure your save file is just before the teaser for Build 0.2, save, then start Build 0.2.

Again, sorry for the inconvenience.

If the bug persists you can restart the game -- use the Skip button, it should get you through the game in less than a minute. Again, sorry for the inconvenience. We are look into ways this issue won't happen again in the future.

(+1)

Hi. Thank you for your response. Later on a realised it was possible to skip the error, following several others till the switch to the new chapter. Since at the fur selection no change happened I realised its graphically stuck at the original look of the character.  I tried a new game and the error did not appear. and also the look of Asterion was corrected.

(+1)

Loving the VN the story and our loveable minotaur. So far I have only good things to say.  However, would suggest releasing an android version, whenever you possibly can...

(+2)

i would personally like ways to get the other dialog options locked behind what talent MC picked. like give MC a chance to read a book about the notra dame so the can get the arts option button

(1 edit) (+1)

It is where my game end and I get the Great Sliver Peacock rank.

But at your Feedback Form, you have ask "Which guest did you pick to lead the lounge? "

Which Kota just arrived, I wonder is there anything I missed?

Developer

I guess we weren't too clear with that question and how we put it in the game. The guest that leads the lounge is determined by the choice you made at the end of Build 0.1, in which you pick someone classy or fun while looking at the fireplace. Classy means Kota arrives first and leads the lounge, fun means Luke does.

Thank you for your comment. It is useful for us in planning how choices will be structured going forward.

(+1)

i'm not sure how far this criticism will go but its about Luke. i feel like  Luke comes on too strongly and i know that's his character but he feel like the "AMERICA, FUCK YEA" meme on steroids. I like that he is a sexually open character but again it feels slightly exaggerated like I think he's one beer away from humping the fridge exaggerated. these quirks of his are so apparent you can describe him in 2 words "Sex and Patriotism ". I love your work and I love every other character a bunch but Luke is one of my main issues in terms of character. one other small thing is the fact that some options are locked behind MC interest the player picked at the start of the game. If one didn't pick the art path  they can't get the best title in this current update. if its possible I think it might be a good idea to give the player the ability to learn some facts before the special options come up which allows players who did not initially take certain paths to not miss out on the options. 

(+1)

I wholeheartedly agree. 

Developer

Hello! Responding first to one of your first points ("i'm not sure how far this criticism will go"), we always try to keep an open mind when we receive feedback. We want to make the best game we can.

Now, before I write an answer to your post per se, would it be ok if I posted a screencap of what you said on Twitter? I would like to have other people see it to give their own perspectives -- see how many share the same point you expressed. If you are ok with that, after we get more input I will explain a bit of how we are writing Luke and what role the backgrounds play in the game.

(1 edit) (+1)

Sure, i don't mind you screen shooting it. i just hope I didn't sounded too whinny in the post.

Developer

While Minoanon is addressing the Luke kerfuffle I'd like to go over the second half of your post. I'm juggling the idea of making a more detailed screen for choosing your player background considering the features we're going to add to build 03 (for example, your background giving you passive bonuses, tweaking some of the mechanics, giving you access to different guests, or exclusive dialogue choices)
I think it might be distracting if in the middle of the introduction of the game where we're trying to set a mood, we were to frontload all this information about the rest of the game. I get where you're coming from, there's value in making an informed decision, but it  kind of ruins the mood that scene is trying to set and spoils some of the things to come.
But hey maybe I'm alone in this, so this is something I'd like more people to weigh in on. Should I add a screen giving a small description of the different backgrounds, or should I leave it as it is to not ruin the mood?

(Also, I feel like I should clarify that ideally no background will be better than the other, especially on the subject of Asterion's affection). Player characters of different backgrounds should be able to win Asterion over in their own ways, so while the current maximum affection is only attainable by players with the arts background... who knows? Maybe on the next build the tech players have a chance to do something that really impresses him. We want to validate player choices and make sure everyone gets their chance to shine so this is not something you have to worry about.)
Thank you for bringing this up, we found it honest and constructive.

Developer

Hey kingyokai. nanoff addressed the matter of the player backgrounds. Now, regarding Luke... In a way we made a bet with him. He has a very hard-hitting first chapter, we could say, that indeed constructs him as the loud, tactless American stereotype. Our plan -- and perhaps I am revealing a small spoiler here -- is to subvert some aspects of that as his character arc progresses.

This discussion was productive to me. For now I'm going to incorporate some of this back into what I was planning for Luke -- mainly, I think I'll expedite some of his character development over his next pieces of content.

After Build 0.3 is out I'll look back into this issue, and if you want it'd be great to hear back from you about what you think then.

Thanks for the feedback!

Developer

Hello everyone. As stated here, I'd like to open an invitation for people to discuss Luke here, as inspired by Kingyokai's comment. I think his honesty was quite refreshing, and I'd like to instill a similar sentiment that we, the Minoh dev team, appreciate honesty when we receive feedback.

An important point I'd like to stress is that we have plans for Luke which, we believe, will be quite satisfactory in due time. So we definitely have a strong compass and believe we can pull it off, but it's important that we have a good grasp on what people think about Luke so we can navigate it well -- and recognize ahead of time if our plan needs any reconsideration.

So... What do you think of Luke? Did you like or dislike him, why? Was he fun, or did he make your experience less enjoyable? Feel free to structure your thought however you find the most appropriate.

(1 edit) (+2)

I feel like Luke’s patriotic aspect gives a unique take on the archetype of “the guy who hides his insecurities behind extreme promiscuity”. I do, however, feel as if that detracts from his character a bit because that basically is his personality and it’s what most of his dialogue and actions are based around. There’s just kind of a half-empty archetype with a bit of a backstory. I do feel like if his personality is fleshed out a bit more and the MC has a chance to delve into his thoughts and behavior and such (maybe get him drunk and have a candid conversation or something like that), he will definitely be a compelling character.

Developer

Your comment is reassuring in a way. Luke indeed is the kind of guy who hides his issues under many layers of vices, and that's something we intend on addressing on his chapters (they are optional; you can pick which guests you hang out with, you'll see this content if you choose to.)

I can say Luke is a character for whom we have some fun ideas. As you put it, "maybe get him drunk and have a candid conversation or something like that" is definitely something we can do!

Thank you for your feedback.

(+1)

I don't necessarily dislike Luke that much, I'm just really uninterested in American Patriotism as a quirk/character trait. Especially in the current political climate, I just feel exhausted seeing patriots portrayed in media. I know we've only seen a short bit of both Luke and Kota, and his character has more depth already than just patriot horny bird, but it's hard to remember that with his clothes and how the UI changes for his text. At the moment I don't really have any ideas or suggestions for what to change about him, I hope other people who reply can give better feedback than I can. Great work so far though, and I can't wait to play the future builds!

Developer

Thank you for your point, Sukrin. I think this is a matter where listening to different perspectives is really important, you see, because nanoff and I aren't American. Even if we follow the news about Trump we don't get the whole picture of the day-to-day.

Do you think what you've felt towards Luke is something many other players are likely to feel?

(+1)

I found Luke to be a fun and memorable character right off the bat with his hyper-sexuality and Texas/American patriotism. It was interesting to watch how he pushed the boundaries of Asterion's ideal hotel decorum, and how these ideas made all the guests around him uncomfortable. Luke is just so forward, so easy to read, such a fun stereotype, and I think this is a good thing especially if you are planning to introduce more characters and more cultures in the future.

Developer

Oh, I think you will enjoy what we have planned for Luke! Hahahaha. That's all I'll say for now...

(1 edit) (+2)

I was one of the people who first picked Luke for the lounge, then stopped and reloaded a save to switch because I disliked his changes to the place so much - I was willing to power through my initial impression of him until he turned the lounge into a stripclub, which was just too much for me: the first chosen reshaping of the hotel beyond restoring it (because the MC hasn't chosen, like, a theme or anything for it, unlike the Anon Quest from the pastebin where the thread picked a fancy Dubai island megastructure before guests started arriving) was something I as a person (since MC has little personality right now) would never pick or want for my main lounge of this fancy 20's era hotel for healing lost souls. It didn't feel like Luke was thinking "Hey people need a place they can cut loose to escape/get a buffer from what made you lost" but just "oh lol let's have a sexy stripclub so I can be a thirsty boi" and I as the player (and Asterion's reaction of horror suggests he thinks the same) had to suck it up and have a stripclub for our lounge now all the sudden. 

Alright, I'll admit this last bit may be a bit petty and me giving into the "protect precious minoboy" instinct too much, but also, Luke's first meeting with Asterion is also just spiteful and mean - I know he tries to laugh it off as a joke "Just messing with ya buddy", but it went past rude and crude into mean. While I actually enjoy some of his attitude and how he's a chatterbox that doesn't mind being called out for putting his foot in his mouth (because he clearly lives in the mindset of "live fast to outrun the past and feelings", which is well done and interesting), it's just a really bad first impression for the guy I already decided I was giving the lounge to, before even meeting.

So in short, I felt like I didn't have agency. All I know is that I'm picking 'Someone Fun' or 'Someone Classy', and suddenly that choice is guaranteed to be who reshapes the lounge: Both the first real redesign in the hotel is taken by a guest, and then Luke's vision is a very divisive one that he sticks you with without trying to sell it to you. Even Kota does this, but his changes are... well, both more in line with what I would want, and much more normal and tame. 

Personally, I think I'd like the ability for MC to have a little input as the lounge is being redesigned - it doesn't have to change the background image or even be brought up again, but being able to temper (or encourage, for those inclined) some of Luke's wilder choices in the moment would feel much better, and likewise for Kota's changes, even if they're more normal. 

Developer(+1)

Hello! First off, I have to thank you for such a well-structured and precise critique. Your response gave me quite a lot to think over the holidays. I won't promise you the world but I have been keeping your points in my head as I've done some edits over the last few days. In particular your points about your agency -- the team and I have discussed a few possible solutions for this.

Hopefully we will have something that addresses your points by the time build 0.3 rolls around. Again, thanks a lot!

Cheers man! I'm just one player so definitely don't promise me the world, but I wouldn't be here commenting if I didn't love this project! I think it really says something that I could be so invested into the game that Luke came on so strong and got me to switch to Kota. I look forward to seeing 0.3 and every build after that.

And though I feel like I'm being harsh on Luke, but that's because I think there's an awesome, fun, and unique character there, he just needs a little spit-shine. I look forward to what does him. Oh and what you do with him. 

(1 edit) (+3)

Sorry in advance if this comes a bit incoherent and overstretched, I tried to structure and edit it as best as I could.

I'm one of "I originally picked Luke, but I went back and chose Kota" people myself. According to survey, about 18% of respondents have done the same. The reason I think, is that choice and it's consequences are very vague. It worded "Whom do you want to bring to the Hotel? Some athletic and fun or someone thick and classy?". On this wording alone I probably expected someone more like hip gym teacher cracking dad jokes. And yeah, Luke is not everyone's idea of "fun", so I personally felt, that he's a bit mislabeled (more like sad, considering his introductory episode). But that is totally okay and don't really need a change, the real issue here is that, when you pick whether to bring to the Hotel either Luke, or Kote, the characters themselves are not yet introduced and the game doesn't really telegraph well, that this choice will affect who is in charge of lounge. So the players pick blindly and there is no real way to alter this choice other than reload. As I see, it can be fixed in two ways. First, easier one, as it brings minimal change to the script: both Luke and Kota could be introduced before MC makes the choice of whom they want to bring into the Hotel. Problem here is that will create a narrative blob, because both of character introductory episodes will be played one after another. I don't mind, but it will make plot a bit disconnected and it may fatigue players, especially those, who don't really care for guests. The second option: leave choice of bringing first guest as it is, but when the guest request to work at lounge add an additional choice on whether hire them on the spot, or refuse them saying something like "I' need some time to think about it", which prompts another choice when the second guest arrives, whether give lounge to Luke of Kota. The problem here is that this will require writing of additional scenes and four game states instead of two (two when second guest arrives and lounge is furnished, and two more when second guest arrives and lounge is unfurnished). But i think it is the better option, because players wouldn't feel as if they lack control over situation and the Hotel renovation.

Now, about Luke himself. I don't hate him... but not really a fan of him either. He is coming on very strong, which is absolutely not a bad thing, but it is bound to create more polarized opinions on him, especially in comparison and in contrast to mild-mannered Kota.  It doesn't really help, as RockJock posted above (and I mostly agree with everything in their comment), that when Luke first arrives in the Hotel, well... basically bullies Asterion (I know it's a cheap pun), which makes mother-bird instincts kick-in, at least for me and many other players, I imagine. I don't mind his whole USA quirk, but this Texas-loving truck-driving gun-blazing aesthetic leans heavily into image of conservatives and right (even far-right) wing, which are historically extremely anti-lgbt+. Though it can be really fun, enjoyable, and ironic then such stereotypes are played into gay-furry VN, I can see why some people might find it off-putting (especially considering global fatigue of right politicians, especially USA ones). That being said, I don't think you need to change Luke, at least not yet. You, as writers and developers have a hindsight - you know how his character will develop and the person he someday will become. We, as player, so far been only introduces to him and glimpsed barely one facet of his personality, so our perception of Luke naturally differs. It takes time to get accustomed with a character, at least couple more updates before he can truly be judged. You say you have interesting plans for Luke and I believe you. There are a lot examples of characters, who were initially ill received, but in process grew to be adored. Who knows, maybe Luke will be one of them. But there still bound to be people, who dislike him and it's okay. Yes, it is easier to make alterations early in development, but my word of advice - for now proceed with him as you planned without any changes. Monitor player's feedback, but first let them see more sides of Luke personalty, and if their opinion is still the not the one you hope for, only than make revisions.

Best wishes for you and inspiration.

Developer(+1)

Hello CryingCroc. What I told RockJock in response to his comment applies just as well to you: thank you for putting your time and energy into writing this. When I've been putting so much time into writing for Mino my perspective can become a tad narrow, having someone reframe things really helps a lot and you did a wonderful job.

As I said to RockJock, hopefully by the time we have build 0.3 we will have some changes to how we structured Luke's and Kota's content.

To close off, I have to say I'm just happy to know you have faith in us, and I hope to keep on giving you and everyone else reasons to continue believing.

(1 edit) (+1)

Thank you for your reply! I'm glad I can help even in such small way. I immensely enjoy Minotaur Hotel so far and impatiently looking forward for further updates. Hope you have as much fun writing them, as I have reading them. Wish you creative strength and inspiration, and all good things.

(+1)

I'm liking the game so far, but there are a few things that I personally found off-putting... First one being Luke's Extreme patriotism (not a fan of patriotism, much less when it evolves into fanatism, which it's what feels like with Luke) as the climate is with today's politics, politicians and how people are fed-up with the right and far-right I feel like the whole package of Texan, ultra-patriotic, and extremely promiscuous is an unfortunate and quite frankly a very cringe-inducing choice, that feels shallow and empty. 

Doesn't help how he harasses Asterion or the MC for that matter, or how incredibly rude and cruel he is with Asterion , doesn't help that the choice over who gets to run the lounge comes out of the blue without any information about who we'd end-up choosing... 

Another thing I'd like to point out is that it'd be good if the text boxes background for the dialog could be slowed down to a reasonable speed it'd be better (I find that speed very distracting, causes me to lose some dialog sometimes, especially with Luke's and Asterion's) 

Other than those issues I mentioned I'm loving this VN, and can't wait for the next update! Kudos to the Dev team! :) 

Developer

Hello, PaleAngel. Just tonight we were discussing your points and -- well, it is my hope that Luke's upcoming chapters will be a remarkable experience. We want it to be quite a ride! :)

About the text boxes, I brought your point to nanoff and we will take a look at it. Thank you for putting time into writing your perspective

Developer(+1)

Hey  PaleAngel, thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I can see how the text scrolling can be distracting, so I just added a text scrolling option that slows down or downright turns off the scrolls on the dialogue box for the next build. I'll be adding it to the rest of the UI like the inventory and team management screens as well.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

(1 edit)

I didn't meant the text, I meant the text boxes background. 

(3 edits) (+1)

While it is true that Lukas's overwhelming show of sexual promiscuity is concerning, something I think some of you, perhaps are overlooking, is the fact that it's more of a preservation of self mechanism, and is something that most likely will change or evolve to be something more 'mature' ( look all I saying is that it's a part of character development, learning  about the desire to be wanted, and apparently Lukas seems to align that with having sex and so does it as much as possible, believing that will fill that desire to be loved and thus considers that to be what 'love' is, even if it's one sided, ignoring the fact that he's injuring himself emotionally), I'm sure as the story progress. As well as the fact that after the scene with the truckers, he feels hollow and disgusted with himself, and he even goes on to say, or rather portray the feelings of how he just wanted someone to lie with him to be there after the 'high' of sex, like I talked about earlier, I'm sure there's more to it than that (maybe family issues -I know he brings up his siblings and constellations a few times, as it comforts him- we don't get a lot on his parents as much as we did with Asterion). Now, I may be looking too far into things, but I would like to believe that Lukas is more than just some promiscuous griffin  patriot meme texan engineer. I think we will find there is more to Lukas than meets the eye. Or maybe not, don't @ me :3

P.S I would like to know if picking Tech would have changed our interactions with Lukas

P.P.S Thanks so much for working on such a unique game, I'll try to be more constructive next time, but I really can see a lot of good in this project!

Developer(+1)

Well... I don't want to give too many spoilers, but... yes. Mino Hotel started as an interactive story on 4chan. Luke was one of our earlier characters and, suffice it to say, he does go through quite a few changes in attitude as the story goes on. As others raised points here I chose not to mention this fact because, well, the story has to stand up for itself without me explaining it.

But yes, thank you for the support, and you can relax knowing that it is constructive.

About Tech... Right now Luke doesn't interact differently based on the player's background, for the most part. There's only one or two lines where that happens in his segments so far. But that's not to say it will remain this way. We will see! :)

Yeah, from what I read above a lot of people seem to be point out the fact that they don't really feel like they know what they are getting and when they do, don't get to decide who they want running the lounge, their previous decision fixes that option. Narrative can get fuzzy sometimes but, that's why you opened up a space for constructive criticism, not a lot of people are that brave, so good on you, may you reap its rewards and have a happy new year!