Oh, I get it now, so it was the first letter and the length of the word/string! That definitely would have been helpful haha
Thanks for all the feedback. Glad you appreciated the misdirect in 2, that was my favorite bit.
1. For what its worth... all blotted letters are actually there, under the blots!
2. Ah, good to know. It was meant to reference the previous puzzle's theme, astronomy. I'll see about finding a better name. Perhaps just "Signs".
3. Oh, right! I've been meaning to clue that a bit better. Any suggestions? I might add a second single-letter clue to a different blank, like the "A" clue. Or And I could add something to the last page like "Message received?" in green ink or "Message Received: [checkbox]" in an orange box.
3. How about extra hints and individual __s, to nudge players toward filling out the word list? https://imgur.com/a/VAZhG0Z The "D" and "N" on the right would hopefully clarify the proper orientation of words. (I specifically want the message spelled out via a two-column list because the canonical leftovers are, e.g. "reviled" (r7) not "deliver" (d7), as shown by the bottom-right corners.)
You still left the last slot in the list starting with A, though. As I already tried to explain, "the last message (which is the same as the puzzle 12 solution) is shown starting with A, and that's also the direction it's read, which breaks the pattern of messages on the right side needing to be read backwards." So replace the A with an N, or put the A at the end. The last clue on the bottom-left (under the smudge) also needs to start with 'a', not 'n', as the clues correspond to how the terms are read, aren't they? Or am I misunderstanding something?
Personally, I would only see those nudges as helping to confirm what to search for in the last puzzle. They wouldn't make me any more inclined to write everything out in the columns. And even if I did write them out, there's no guarantee that I'd realize they're meant to all be read in sequence. I still feel my previous suggestion is the best way to ensure players reach the intended ending. But that's just my opinion.
Regarding the orientation of the final "word" (n15), here's how my logic for how it works:
The trick with Puzzle 12 is that its 12 "words" don't need to actually be words, they just have to be the leftovers.
All leftovers are read top-to-bottom, so the canonical leftovers include nonsense like "foec@rton" (f9). The leftovers are not the reversed versions like "deliver" (hence no "d7" clue). You can confirm this via the bottom-right hints, and also the bottom-left hints of puzzle 12. So for consistency, the bottom of page 12 must say "n15" just like it says "f8". *
The reason I did it this way is so that when the leftovers ( "reviled", "foecart0n", "nowevahwonuoysa", etc.) get written backwards on the right side, the result is a perfectly-readable left-to-right message that's hard to miss.
Hope that makes sense!
*unless I changed the bottom of 12 to have hints like "n8" for "notraceof".
I think I finally get it. The reason it didn't click for me is that thus far, terms on the right column seemed to follow a rule that they always had to form a valid word or phrase when read from right to left. "nowevahwonuoysa" would be the only one not to follow that rule. Actually, more than that, it breaks the bigger, more important rule of these "word searches" always involving searches of actual words, not simply nonsensical letters, so long as you see right-column terms as simply being reversed.
I didn't notice that the puzzle 12 hints were all the same as the bottom-right corner hints, even for ones that go in the right column, which would indeed necessitate writing them backwards. I think I would in fact find it more intuitive if you instead switched up the puzzle 12 hints for the right-column terms as you say ("n8" for "notraceof"), so that they would get written the same as on the previous pages, and this would allow the final term to also follow the pattern of being valid when read backwards from how it's written. Then you could do one last page after where everything gets written out properly, with the right-column terms only reversed there for the final message.
I can see what you were going for, with the elegance of having the final puzzle also serve as the final message all at once, and maybe this isn't an issue most people would be confused by like I was. But speaking for myself at least, it almost made me miss the final message entirely, and I think my suggested approach would help ensure that people understand exactly what you want them to see at the end.
Oh, thanks for mentioning Xournal... when installing it I somehow hid the top menu immediately (F10?) and thought there was no preferences menu to enable right-click erase! That's what I meant by slow. After looking into it, I've updated the page to recommend it more highly.
The 3 points you got stuck were definitely intended to be the hardest, but for puzzle 1, looking up lists is absolutely expected/recommended. I think I'll add that info somewhere to the no-zero edition, since I put "using an encyclopedia is permitted" on page 0.
I'll also be pushing the latest updates to no-zero edition since lots of people seem to be downloading it. Though I'm not sure I recommend that version.
Thank you so much for adding those! Especially that an encyclopedia is ok in the no-zero version :) I personally enjoyed the no-zero version a lot, though I have no basis of comparison.
Ooh interesting, nobody else has mentioned starting at #4! I did purposely make all the words orthogonal on the off-chance somebody would. I wonder if anybody will start sooner than that... I suspect #3 is the earliest possible (with its small green hint in the printable version).
Poetic considerations aside, "The word searches are done / _______" would actually be counterproductive since the checkbox is for the players who just found "as you now have won" and thought that was the whole message. I might revise the checkbox message to "Fill out 12th word list" or "Write 12th word list" or something. (I assume you found the full message since you mention the "meanings of the even-numbered leftovers"?)
(By the way, I reduced the listed total from ___/150 to ___/144 in v1.18 so that players like JoePlaysPuzzleGames won't worry that there's 6 secret words if they forget about Puzzle 0. And to give stuck players a hint that there are 12 groups of 12.)
I see what you mean I think, that extracting the final phrase and reusing it in a different context leads to more problems. I was thinking about the possibility of not picking out the final part of the message, but really I suppose it's more likely that someone would miss the full message itself (but I think in post 1.17 versions you've added more letters to the "notes" part which should make it clearer). I'm probably concerned about nothing. :)
(Yes, I had the whole message and was being unnecessarily cryptic about spoilers.)
My son finished this evening and found the final leftovers (then struck off the "extra" A). Interestingly he didn't go to highlight it in the grid, but he did write it in the final slot on #12. He also enjoyed it very much.
Fair enough on the 144 vs 150!
I do like the idea of somehow checking or requiring that the player gets the message, but I'm not sure how to do it.
I could perhaps make the blanks more enticing to fill in, at least for the printable version:
But this might tempt players to try solving it too soon? And it might be too helpful? (e.g. spoiling puzzle 6) And tedious when solving on PC.
Re the blanks on #12, I'm pretty sure my son didn't bother with them for the longest time because he could just go back to previous pages to refer to them, so had no need to write them down (and even then wouldn't have written them backwards in 1.17, but probably would have done with the newer hints).
How about this idea - 12 checkboxes on each page corresponding to where the words would be written, which may inspire the player to write each word down and then check it off. Checking boxes is satisfying and it's easy, and perhaps it encourages us to write in the thing that's being ticked off to make it more satisfying? So the simple thing with no details is offered, and paradoxically we spend more effort (writing the words to find) just to get the small dopamine hit of a tick.
(Whether the boxes are always to the left or always to the right, or always on the inside or always on the outside, I don't know.) Separating out the blanks like that feels unnecessary to me -- having the faint horizontal lines with letter hints (that I see in 1.19 vs the 1.17 I solved) seems to me a huge improvement already.
I also think a player doesn't care about the order of items (#1-#10 don't use any order; possibly the two zodiacs _could_ use one, but does that make the player look for ordering in the others that isn't there?) -- and they may fill in the #12 word list in the order they're solved! (I filled it in in puzzle order, but went down each column in turn instead of going row by row, which didn't help.) Possibly they respect the order in #11, where it does follow the ordering of the puzzles, but it's just as possible that (if they write the categories in at all) they write the first two above KEY where there's a big blank space. Having placeholders (lines and/or checkboxes) to show the word placement in #11 may encourage more careful placement in the word list, and thus help guide the player to correct placement in #12. (Again the new blanks with some letters on #12 helps hugely.) And does that mean it's needed on all puzzles, and does that add too much clutter?!
Oh right, I forgot that players don't care about the order! Thanks for the tip. That actually makes me more inclined to use the separated blanks, to give guidance on which word goes where... otherwise players might think the D clue is for REVILED instead of DRAWER. Plus, that'll help avoid the situation where you went down each column. I will keep the bottom hints uncovered.
I don't want to add blank lines to #11, as I want to officially reveal the 12 Words twist at #12, but I might add one green glyph to #11 to discourage players from placing word randomly at the top.
(By the way, every puzzle does have some sort of ordering, but sometimes its just alphabetical or has an arbitrary starting point.)
Thanks for the feedback! A few others were also confused by the ending, so I'm now planning to replace the circle and squiggly line with just a few normal blots [covering just 5-10 letters total]. Less fancy, but hopefully more clear and more satisfying.
Thanks! The idea of having hidden categories was what initially inspired me to make this.
Hope you enjoy finding n15, I actually just added that challenge in the most recent update. If you watch Icely's playthrough, you'll see that puzzle #12 is quite different. (And JoePlaysPuzzleGames played a version with a simpler n15 solve.)
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed puzzle 6 and the double zodiac, those were some of my favorites. Puzzle 11 was absolutely meant as a two-way street, I'm actually surprised that many people didn't use it as a key to the remaining puzzles. I guess it's because of the "puzzles should be attempted in the order given" thing.
In puzzle #8, the f9 glyph is an evil milk carton, to help players confirm that "foe carton" is correct.
Thanks! N-Step Steve is certainly a high compliment, it absolutely has those crazy moments of realization that I try to replicate.
Regarding puzzle 11: It seems I accidentally made LEFTOVERS too hard in v1.21 when I changed it to cross KEY (to remind players that words can cross). I forgot how hard it is to find words that cross over diagonally. I think I'll do a tiny update to revert that tonight.
Hi! I really enjoyed the entire game, but there is just ONE thing bugging me after my completion: puzzle #2’s name. Like, I know the last word has to be Zodiac because of the topic of the puzzle and the C sticking out at the end, but the first word is JUST out of reach for me. I matched the font and size that you used for the titles, but every idea I immediately thought of, one of which was “Creature Zodiac,” got debunked because of the length! I really hope I can see what the intended title is supposed to be soon, because it has been annoying me ever since I solved this thing. I also attached an image of the “title.”
I figured out the answer literally RIGHT after you sent this message. I seriously don't know why I didn't try "Chinese Zodiac" before this! I am so smart for figuring everything else out and so oblivious that I didn't even think of what the theme for the level even was at the same time! I am so sorry for asking such a dumb question to the creator of the entire game.
Thanks!
Yes, the L is always hidden. In case you missed it (though it sounds like you didn't), you can logically deduce it by using the L10 clue. You can also deduce it in puzzle 12 with no ambiguity (if you know "_acking any"). Early versions of the book had another hidden leftover in puzzle 5, but I removed it when remaking that puzzle. If I do another update, I might foreshadow the mechanic early on using a partially-covered leftover letter.
Ooops! I did have both, sorry 😅 Thanks for your reply and thanks again for the game, it was really fun to play :D
I feel that. I didn't know that it was about cookies until I looked up "how are jumble fortune and oatmeal related" and it gave me the Wikipedia page for cookies. Whole list of all the cookies you'd ever need.
Absolutely, go for it!
Feel free to let me know if you have any questions while designing it. My main advice is to place words in a stretched-out shape (like the planets were) rather than bunched in on themselves (like "rooster" was), when possible. And also that puzzle 2 will likely be the toughest to design -- make sure that the player feels confident they solved it "correctly". Also, I recommend picking an obscure Otagedaugnel, perhaps leaving it as-is. But feel free to change the words and even the themes as needed! Oh, and puzzle 8's words are listed chronologically; I tried to put all the lists in some sort of order, but puzzle 1 is not. Puzzle 1 can perhaps be listed alphabetically, but IMO it's more important that the shape of the visible word list feels natural, not like it has gaps in it. Okay, I think that's about it!
Thanks! I'll do my best!
Damn, I didn't even realised the words were listed in a certain way (except for the numbers and the months)... My objective here is to make a game as close to the original as possible, so I'll make sure the translated words lists are correctly arranged.
And thanks for your advices, they're greatly appreciated!
I just have one question regarding the shape of the grids: I figured the timepiece one has the shape of a watch and the solar system one is... Well, it's obvious, really. But what about the Chinese zodiac, or the numerals? Does the shapes all have a meaning or did you make them like this just based on the number of characters you had to put?
Here's a recent (very messy!) version of the game files you can use, and a few quick notes on all the grids and word lists. 12WS - shared
Most stuff is fine to change if needed, the most important thing is the word list order for puzzles 11 and 12.
Oh, and my typical process for puzzle layout (excluding puzzles 1 / 2 / 5 which must be built around red herrings) is to start with a cute gimmick or two like the shape of Question Mark, and build the rest of the puzzle around that while minimizing ambiguous word placement. (e.g. having two Ds to choose from for the end of DEIFIED.)
Wow, I didn't expect that many notes and advices, thank you very much! You sir are a true gentleman.
I'll keep you updated on my progress, I hope having some time to work on it during the summer.
Hello,
Sorry, I forgot to keep you updated on the translation... Anyway, it's finished!
Here are the pdf and some notes about the translation
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1lktkme7VdOxySfNfUUU0sU4qupidtTn7
It's not out officially yet, I wanted to know what's your preference:
1: I post it on my own itch.io profile (which I created especially for this) but, as always, by crediting you as the creator of the game
2: you post it on your profile as the French version of your game (and I remove my itch.io address on the front page)
Let me know what you want to do (if you still want to do it).
Wow, this looks incredible! Puzzle 2 and the final message seem perfect, I was worried they'd be impossible to get right. I played through levels 7-10 and they seem great as well. Puzzle 7 was actually a lot of fun to do without knowing french -- the logic for KAYAK is really great, seeing the k clue and connecting it to the only possible other k. I think I made the palindromes too easy in my version.
I greatly enjoyed the words ESERPACATROT and NOIL, and SPAM is a good choice for a red herring. I was happy to see the Obelisk shape and the two half-fish-half-hourglass things. Oh, and the scorpion stinger blot! I almost missed it. Great blot shapes overall, mine were a bit repetitive and chaotic.
I assume it's just a coincidence, but I like that the center of #9 apparently spells "I thought" in Portuguese. (In mine, I made it so the center would say "Le remains" as a vague hint, in terrible half-french, to look at leftover letters in reading order.) It also worked out nicely that BALANCE and MARS get to appear twice -- I wonder if that'll make #4 easier or harder!
It looks like you pretty much got everything important in there -- and even some little things like KEY/TOUCHE being a confusingly vague category name! I just noticed two potential errors:
And then I have a few small suggestions:
When you're ready, go ahead and put the book on your own account, so you can update it or respond to feedback if desired, and have a French comment section. I will link to it in the description, probably "French translation available at chapeltok.itch.io/whatever". Feel free to keep your chapeltok.itch.io link on the title page if you like.
Thanks again for making this! It was kinda wild to see my own book but different, and I'm glad more people will get to play it. (My next puzzle book will be much, much easier to translate.)
By the way, I got most of my anacycles/anadromes/semi-palindromes by piecing together bits from https://foxhugh.com/word-lists/list-of-heteropalindromes/ and some list of palindromes I forget. As for BONE-based timekeeping, I think I got it from https://www.history.com/articles/ancient-timekeeping. Wikipedia categorizes these bones as "tally sticks" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tally_stick) and Google says "tally stick" would just be "baton de pointage", so BATON is good!
Thank you, glad you enjoy it! And thanks again for your trust, translating your puzzles was a wonderful experience! I may already have told you, but 12 Word Searches was easily the best pen and paper game I had the pleasure to play, and the first "metroidbrainia" paper game I played. 😉
About your notes:
I'll make the final changes this week, and a landscape version too, and I'll post them on my account. I'll tell you when it's done.
Great! The vector graphic for TOMEDECART is in the same folder I shared before (12WS - shared).
OK, it's officially done, the French version is online!
https://chapeltok.itch.io/12-mots-meles
BTW, I tried to email you but I may have the wrong address...
All the info you need is right there in the final puzzle.
The question to ask is... Jung ner lbh gb qb jvgu gur yrsgbiref sebz cntr 12 orsber lbh fbyir?
Alright, I think I got it, but not sure if I happened to notice it by coincidence or if that is the intended way. Is the intent to see that you have duplicate letters left at the end, and then figure it out that way? I did not do this; I saw the word "won", and traced it backwards since I knew the "N" was the final letter and of course knew the total number of letters I was looking for.
Also, what is the box next to 12th word list on the final page meant for?
Yep the intent is to use the leftovers as a guide for the 12th word, but your way works fine too.
The box is just a little checkbox to mark off to affirm you've gotten the final message, in case you didn't get 144/144 in doing so, or got all 144 but missed the message due to not writing out the list.
I was stuck for far too long on that final word, appreciate the nudge in the right direction. I really enjoyed this puzzle and hope to check out some similar ones in the future, any recommendations that would scratch the same itch?
Hmmm. The most similar game I can think of is LOCK for PS Dreams. (Although I haven't played it myself, I just watched Keith Ballard's play-through.)
I don't play a lot of word games or puzzle hunts, so everything else that comes to mind is just normal puzzle games with good epiphanies -- Linelith, Öoo, Slicecraft, Pâquerette, Bee Magic, N-Step Steve, Insight, A Monster's Expedition, etc.
In terms of books, ABDEC might be the most similar to 12 WS (consistent rules, fleshed out over time) but it is fiendishly difficult at one point. Oh, and the excel-based puzzle Rainbow Challenge / INTAO 🟥🟧🟨🟩🟦🟪⬛ seemed excellent, though I got stuck halfway through, and it's structured such that the rules change for every puzzle.
Oh my gosh, thank you! I remember getting Puzzlecraft probably a decade ago now, and getting inspired to make some riddles for my (rather mediocre) 10 Puzzles project. Oh, and coincidentally I just ordered Betrayal a couple days ago -- didn't know you were involved with that until I googled it. Excited to play it this Halloween with my family.
Awesome.
If you liked the old version of Puzzlecraft, there's a new version on our store. https://shop.lonesharkgames.com/collections/puzzlecraft Happy to send you a free PDF if you'd like one.
