Tower of Archeos

the puzzle dungeon · By Benjamin Soulé

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Suggestions

A topic by Ozzythezombi created May 07, 2016 Views: 1,782 Replies: 43

Viewing posts 1 to 20

Ozzythezombi7 years ago(+2)(-1)

Here is the traditionnal topic where we suggest stuff to the devs

I will begin with mine:

I think that a will be interesting to have a litlle counter ( not sure it's the right word for that, excuse my english), like a box, where every monster on the grid apears and how many they are.

For example, if there is 17 rats, the box show the picture ( the little one) of the rats and the number 17

I think this could be useful when you want to plan your moves, especially with item like the book.

This could also applied to items when you have the torch equipped.

Demadogma7 years ago(+2)

I think it'd be interesting if Archeos laughs at you if you die during his level.

Benjamin SouléDeveloper7 years ago

added on the todolist :D

James Edward Smith7 years ago(+1)

I feel like if there are multiple keys in the grid, using a key should always use the lowest down one. There has been multiple times where I have had lots of keys on screen, opened the door, and have lost keys on the bottom of the screen. This is frustrating.

Benjamin SouléDeveloper7 years ago(+1)

Selecting a key allow you to choose which key you want to use. But I will implement your lowest key as a default idea.

Active Up Games7 years ago(+1)

I really like the format of the game. A couple things I would have liked differently:

-The prisoner that I rescued did not stay for the next round; It would be nice to have some kind of external progression

-If I used my last key on a treasure chest and there is a door to get out, I have no recourse but to play the game until I die. It seems like this shouldn't be an option available.

Really cool game idea though, I like it a lot!

Benjamin SouléDeveloper7 years ago

For the one-time use prisoneer I was expecting some frustratrion. I will try to improve jail spawn rate again to solve that, because I would like to save this morphing team specificity. If I keep having negatives feedbacks ( and I do -_- ) I will consider a permanent unlock.

I recently added a feature on 0.8 so a level cleared from every monster auto-jump to next floor.

James Edward Smith7 years ago

Poison from vipers feels really brutal. I don't know if I understand why it's so punishing.

Geonjaha7 years ago (1 edit) (+3)

- Vampires spawning (not with bats) naturally are basically a game-ender. I think that their damage should be limited to 1 heart (total) whenever some of them are concentrating.

- When you pick up an item with a full inventory there should be a way to decline throwing one away (i.e. a back button), like you have with the keys. This might already be in but I couldn't find out how to do it.

- Heroes being lost isn't really a fun mechanic, especially when they don't offer much advantage over the starter character, if any. If they're going to be lost maybe they should actually accompany the starting hero in some way (i.e. only in the dungeon where you free them), else a permanent unlock system of some sort would probably be better.

Steneub7 years ago (5 edits) (+2)(-2)

Been playing through the game several times and I really like it! I was hooked by the gif preview on your page. I have some observations and suggestions - some of which already appear, but I wanted to get my thoughts down too. Sorry if it's a bit much!

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- The game is hard! The play seems to reach a point where you can't possibly win, even on easy mode. The monsters get varied too soon and you end up with a jumble of mismatches. Take a cue from other varied-block puzzle games and reduce the variety of types in the beginning so that it's easier to make broad clears. Give the player confidence they can do the task asked of them.

- I've seen other "group clearing games" where the stacks will compress if a column is cleared.

- I love the undead / slime spawning! I would suggest with at least doubling of their regeneration rate

- Those jerk Scroungers almost always get the best of me.

- It feels like the rats dodge is far greater than 50%. It might *actually* be 50% in the code, but it just feels off.

- When freeing a prisoner, I expected them to join my party and help me fight like I saw in your gif preview. I was confused why they didn't and I only saw them outside the tower.

- I was disappointed I could only bring one party member into the tower with me.

- And I was further disappointed that I couldn't choose them again after I lost them in the dungeon!

- I like the art! I would suggest changing the portraits of the turtles when they lose their shells

- The effect of the tower walls closing in and locking into place is very much a "way cool!" moment. Well done!

- Speaking to the difficulty of the game, consider adding more defensive equipment. The helmet which guards against some damage if you attack in the top three rows is nice, but there needs to be more.

- When getting gold, I like the "ghost" preview effect of how much gold you would collect if you were to attack, as well as the HP loss from doing so. I would like a hovering gold-colored [+8] to accompany the targeting grid so it's clear how much gold you are getting. Just one little bit of information to help players. It was not immediately clear how the gold-collection worked until I realized the coin on the monster-card was how it all correllated. Once I realized that, I could count it out if I wanted to, but it would be nice to see it done for me.

- Add an ability to disarm a trap

- When advancing floors, non-monster items should not fall off the bottom of the screen. They should "float" up and remain on the bottom row.

- The flashing "current party member" indicator is distracting and useless if there is only one party member

- The floor indicator is horizontal, when the tower is vertical.

- As you advance in floors, can you palette swap or change tilesets?

- Low-level monsters become a clog at higher levels. Maybe some "magic powder" could destroy all half-heart 1GP on the screen, or this could be something that happens automatically as you advance floors

- Poison damage is applied after leveling up and restoring HP. Bleh.

- For the amount of grief snakes cause, they should be worth at least 2 coins, or lower their initial damage.

- Evading Fairies deal damage, but Dodging rats do not. This is inconsistent. Fairies who do not "fight back" should not deal damage

- "1" damage is half a heart. This is... weird. Consider making the values and the graphics one-to-one instead of two-to-one

- On level-up, all action, including particles, stops. This feels weird to wait for the hearts to fill back up.

- Class selection screen feels like I have to wait too much for the animations to complete before interacting again.

-Bulls which deal 3HP (1.5 hearts) when attacked, drop meat which heal up the three half hearts (1.5 hearts). What's the point of this?

BlueJackalope7 years ago(+1)

About the bulls, if you kill them with an item, you get free food!

Suspended account7 years ago

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I agree with:

Compressing of stacks.

Rats always screw you.

Something more to do with the prisoners.

the turtles dont look like turtes if you are unaware that they are supposed to be turtles, otherwise its pretty good art.

Disarming Traps, they are pretty bad.

Changing the colours of the backgrounds and ui would be sweet per floor.

Taking damage after leveling up from poision or traps is dumb.

Fairies are generally annoying, having them be the only things left and having to click them over and over again is so terrible

BlueJackalope7 years ago (1 edit) (+2)

I like the idea of some counters showing the amount monsters per type on the floor. Furthermore, I suggest that, on hovering those boxes, the player should get a visual cue of that type of monsters in order to know where they are, p.e. when hovering Rat counter, all the other monsters get shaded.

salah7 years ago(+2)(-1)

Could you add a mute button too please

Suspended account7 years ago

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I feel like the game is basically minesweeper, where if you don't find any chests, your gonna lose, and on top of that there is an extreme difference in usefulness between items, fishing rod does absolutely nothing for you, helmet is bad, surely freezing enemies could be somehow more effective, the grappling hook is like an unusable swap rod, there has to be more enemies that are flammable to make incendiary items good, not enough undeads for the cross item to be of use, boomerang doesn't serve much purpose other than to be removed after like 1 throw, i feel the bow should be an archer only item without that quiver that takes inventory space you could put numbers on the bow instead, it would be so nice if all the items had the same potential as the fire rod, swap rod, armor, shield, ring, diagonal sword, necklace, those items are what people need.

Make the game spawn 1 less kind of enemy at a time, if that would make the game too easy then i would recommend changes to make enemies less threatening to remove instead, since late game is a massive struggle

The vampires should only be spawned from bats since having them appear regularly absolutely blows, the fairies/rats suck and yeah the protective enemies suck too.

as far as the classes go the knight is utter rubbish, make him start with a shield.

A party system.

Difficulties affecting damage recieved, item spawn rate, etc

Other than that the game is solid and a lot of fun.

Steneub7 years ago (1 edit) (+1)

Thanks for the new build! Here are observations on 0.82. Keep up the good work! I love your game!

Dig the +Gold indicator! However my first reaction was to read it as "40" instead of "4(G)" My point is the coin looks like the digit zero
The Bats that transform into a Vampire, which immediately drains additional health, and then transforms to a bat is interesting... I will need to play it some more to get you better feedback.
It's interesting that naturally-appearing vampires that perform their drain ability transform into bats. Was this intentional?
Vampires ready to drain should be more visually obvious - they are easy to miss. Perhaps an effect should emanate from them.
Consider increasing coin-bags worth based on floor to make them just as valuable as you gain levels. 10 coins on lower tower levels when your character level is low is nice, but on higher character levels, 10 coins are barely worth it. Do this or increase the rate of their drops per floor for the same net effect. I actually like this second suggestion better because it spreads the gold gain around rather than simply getting lucky and getting a huge amount of gold in one bag.
Used fire to clear some Evil Roots leaving some blank spaces. A Jail did not update the floor's clear percentage until I attacked a new group of monsters
The Munchers really encourage grouping. I think I like them as they are
Fairy evaded while holding a key and took it with her. Your release notes say this should not have happened.
I finally understand the Snake's poison/damage on the card. Yes, it may be 1.5 HP, but only at .5 HP at a time. That's not so punishing as I thought it first was. Once poisoned, the player might as well just go after snakes because there is no penalty to being further poisoned once fully poisoned. I don't think this is a suggestion as much as an observation.
Fleeing single fairies can be chased indefinitely. Perhaps they should get tired after one or two flees and must rest one or two turns? Maybe they seek out other fairies to be adjacent.
Using the Banisher Book yields no coins. That made me sad.

The Dragon Sword and the Rapier are used automatically. I would prefer if they can be used like other items instead of the first attack on a floor.

Benjamin SouléDeveloper7 years ago

About the dragon sword an rapier, they used to be permanent effect items but were too powerful*. I dont want to make them selectable because I would like to make weapons behave differently than other items. But I'm not quite satisfied with the first strike on each floor system too. I need to find something, if I have no solution I will change them to normal items.

* : At this time the mallet was also a permanent effect weapon which double damage monster with armor.

cutegoblingirl7 years ago

Love the game -- hard as nails. Just the kind of thing I'm looking for in a puzzle game.

I admit, I was really disappointed that the characters freed from the jail don't join you permanently; they're hard enough to get that it should be a permanent unlock.

Admit to also being bothered slightly by the floor indicator being horizontal when you're actually climbing vertically.

To me the rat dodge mechanic seems to be hitting at about the intended 50%, though I agree that it's kind of a magnet for Murphy's Law.

Gas7 years ago (1 edit)

I'm playing 5 days so far ... and in easy mode, mostly. Never beat it. The game need a serious logic rethink.

A: vampires = game over. Leave them for harder difficulties. Really.

B: Ogre that cover units = defeat single ogres. Too costly on energy. Solution? Rush the stage. But you'll end to have more ogres AND more kind of shuffled single monsters. This can be solved by some kind of item, but is too random. My suggestion is to have ogres cover only horizontally.

C: Ice rod = why? really. I want to remove enemies, no need to stop them. Fishing rod is unusefull.

D: Level 6 onward= wrong math. More variety of monsters mean less groups, so more damage on your side to solve the stage. PLUS more deadly enemies... PLUS 3 hits to open the door (usually on single enemies that drain you 25% of the energy). This is not hard, is impossible... if you don't own the correct items (that's too random). So: or more variety, or more damage - one of them, not both.

E: Difficulty progression. My suggestion. Easy - really easier than now, but no prize or endings, and play alone. Normal - as it is, and up to 2 characters, unlock hard mode. Hard - 3 characters, unlock some other game mode (survival?).

F: Knight= another skill, like blasting in one hit multiple hit enemies (orcs, turtles...).

G: New Characters to unlock in normal and hard mode will add some replay value (Cleric, Elf...?)

Benjamin SouléDeveloper7 years ago

Just a short answer about <D> : The game spawn only 4x monster type at a time. Each floor add a monster type and remove another. It was more visible on pico8 version I guess, and I realize now reading your comment that I should do something about it.

Deceased Crab7 years ago (1 edit)

It wold be nice to know where the chest is. Or, at least an indicator if you've already found the chest or not on the current stage. I'm forgetful. Also, the game is aggravating to play when you have no idea where the chests are, unlike classic Archeos. Please let us know when this is fixed so I can play this again.

Benjamin SouléDeveloper7 years ago

Chests are very attractive but sometime leaving them behind bring you more benefit than trying to find/open them all.

If you really want to seek every chests you might like the new thief character :)

HuvaaKoodia7 years ago (1 edit)

Really liking it. Reminds me of Desktop Dungeons and that is a great thing. Here are my two cents:

- Permadeath on party members is annoying. This is mostly because playing with multiple characters (with varying stats and abilities) is more interesting than playing with a single standard adventurer. I would make character unlocks permanent, but using a character should have a cost (money or some other resource). This way the player might need to do some grinding with a single character, but there would be no luck involved in using more characters (after finding a few that is).

- Analysis Paralysis is a thing (on Normal difficulty at least, haven't tried Easy yet). Less enemy types per level would alleviate this, but then again maybe that would be too easy.

- A bonus for clearing a room, for instance full health for the whole party (no monsters around, might as well rest).

-A group of Munchers drops the wolf trap in a random position. It would be quite nice if the wolf trap always spawned on the specific Muncher you attacked, allowing for some tactical thinking.

-When I first saw Evil Root I though it would stick to other Evil Root and together act as a Tetris piece of sorts. The current Evil Root design creates quite interesting situations on its own, so maybe the Tetris behaviour would work in a new enemy type which sticks to other enemies and only falls with them.

Benjamin SouléDeveloper7 years ago

The Clearing bonus is actually leaving the room ( even if you dont have a key ). I might add the full regeneration later but I already tried to add more potions to the game on 0.83 and I want to see the result first.

I tried more deterministic spot for muncher's trap ( & bat>vampire spawn ) but I was disappointed by the result. I just ended up thinking longer and I guess that's what you were talking in your 2nd point. This Analysys Paralysis thing was very interesting and I will keep an eye on that, I think that a bit of randomness can someone help people who take too much time calculating everything.

HuvaaKoodia7 years ago (2 edits)

I've been playing more since then and even changed my mind on a few things:

- Analysis paralysis only happens when all the monster types happen to have similar stats (and the room is full of them). Otherwise it is an easy decision to start attacking the weaker monsters first.

- I personally would like as many tactical options as possible concerning each monster type (like the wolf trap positioning). In the end exploiting the enemy quirks is the whole point of the exercise (and very satisfying).

Benjamin SouléDeveloper7 years ago

Ok I will re-add it for 0.84 so everyone can try it.

I used to take most down > most left place for spawning traps. Should I extend this to vampire spawn too ?

HuvaaKoodia7 years ago

Sure. The way I see it is that any effect that is triggered by an attack should take into consideration the specific monster targeted, especially if the effect is beneficial. The odds are already heavily stacked against the player so any tactical advantage, no matter how small, can be the key to survival in some situation.

Benjamin SouléDeveloper7 years ago

Oh ok I get it. You mean like the dodging rat ( who is always the one you click ). It sounds interesting I will try it on 0.85

buckle20007 years ago(+2)

I need a restart button and a quick start button (which can let me skip the intro)

Benjamin SouléDeveloper7 years ago(+1)

I'm not sure this intro will stay in the final version. I will try to add a replay button for test purpose at the gameover screen.

buckle20007 years ago

Thank you

Jerom7 years ago(+1)

A restart button would be nice indeed: I just got stuck (door surrounded by iced monsters I can't break).

Demadogma7 years ago

Any particular reason you're removing things like the Bull and the Blob?

Benjamin SouléDeveloper7 years ago

The Bull is removed because the Minotaur replace him as a meat dropper.

The blob and many others items/monsters have been removed because I plan to release a premium version of the game with exclusive content. Most of this content is actually unlocked and I dont want the beta version to be to similar to the premium version. That's why. I think I will divide the game in free and premium version on next patch.

Demadogma7 years ago

Why on earth would you gate a basic monster that serves to balance the game behind a paywall?

Benjamin SouléDeveloper7 years ago

The monster with the most simple a classic behaviours should stay in free version ( this include blob ).

If I can't balance TOA with 20x monsters instead of 32x I will just give up on offering a free version.But I think it can work this way.

bubble7 years ago

Some kind of multiplayer/co-op mode would be nice. For example: each player starts with one chosen hero, and fight for who gathers more gold and survives. Other idea is that players could attack each other with the monsters (P1 clicks the group of monsters, P2 gets damaged?).

Minibosses could be also fun. 1 monster per floor with the unique ability, health system a'la Archeos (or different, for example dies when a hero levels up or something), a reward for killing it. I think the more mosters, the better.

I'd love an android version of the game!

Benjamin SouléDeveloper7 years ago

The multiplayer / miniboss sounds like good ideas, but to be honest I'm not sure I will have enough energy to work on this...

I was especially interested for the miniboss. I had miniboss on floor 3 and 6 in my initial project but I had to get rid of them to focus on other features. Introducing more health-based boss would also add a reason to design weapons inflicting extra damages. Sounds good but I'm really close to release the project and I'm not sure I want to make that many change right now. Maybe for a sequel if the game is successful...

I plan to make a mac and maybe an android version. I would like them to be ready for 1.0

bubble7 years ago

I think it would be better if you focused on this game instead of making a sequel, it is one of the best puzzle games I've played recently. You could consider releasing it on steam or kickstarter. About multiplayer, you could make it simple by making a "play with 2 heroes mode" and make heroes unable to help each other. Minibosses could be a normal sized monsters with health similar to Archeos or prisons.

Benjamin SouléDeveloper7 years ago

I must say this is tempting but I already spend 5 month instead of the 2 I was planning for this game. I really need to check if people might like it before I invest more time. Time to check if the game is sustainable and If I have good results ( need to sell >500 units for that ) I may work on a free extension, like the Faster Than Light team did for people who bought their game.

James Edward Smith7 years ago (1 edit)

Between the snakes and the bear trap guys, this game is too damn hard now. I can't even beat the first floor most of the time on normal anymore.

Benjamin SouléDeveloper7 years ago

Yeah I agree. I need to rework the difficulty levels to make first floors on easy and normal easier

James Edward Smith7 years ago

It's just too many hard monsters at the start of the game. You used to face a lot of easy monsters at the start - things that ran away, things that spawned more guys, things that dodge you - all monsters that aren't very damaging. Now you have snakes that do a CRAZY amount of damage that you can't even avoid by leveling up or clearing a floor, you stay poisoned, plus bear traps that damage you, plus robbers that can take food or gold bags from you. It's just way too many harder monsters added.

Benjamin SouléDeveloper7 years ago (3 edits)

Actually snake poison is cleaned on levelup and the poison is not cumulative which mean if you hit two snake in a row you will suffer 2 damage total and may avoid most of them by leveling up before. The muncher drop a single trap so if you hit 10x of them and trigger the trap later you get a total of 1 damage which is basically the same than hitting 10x blobs. The scrounger is indeed very annoying but it's a lvl 2 monster you need to compare it with turtle or goblin for example.

I think the real problem is the lack of a real easy mode so player have a place to learn how to deal with this impresive monsters without dying every 2 minutes. I'm currently working on this part.

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Tower of Archeos

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