Indie game storeFree gamesFun gamesHorror games
Game developmentAssetsComics
SalesBundles
Jobs
Tags

Wait, that's how reviews work here?

A topic by Narushima created Sep 27, 2021 Views: 4,952 Replies: 41
Viewing posts 1 to 24
(+32)

I was wondering why my reviews never showed up on the game's page.

If I understand this correctly, when you rate a game and add a review, unlike every other website on the Internet, and contrary to human logic itself, that review is not actually published, but the rating is? If you want to write a public "review", you have to write a "comment", despite the fact that those words have different meanings?

It does say in rather small print that's easy to ignore "Reviews are shared with developers and your followers." But even that doesn't mean it's shared ONLY with those people.

So essentially I've unwittingly been a rude prick, telling people to their face I don't like their game when I've written negative reviews? That's great...

Who thought this was a good idea???

(+19)

I also find this strange.

To me, the word "review" implies that I am writing for a general audience.  This is distinct from "feedback" aimed at the developer.  They have very different purposes.  Reviews are there to answer the question of whether a game is worth playing, whereas feedback is there to help the developer grow by encouraging them and praising what is good about the game while still pointing out where there is room for improvement.  Feedback should be gentle and encouraging when aimed at a newbie developer and highly critical when aimed at a skilled and experienced developer, but reviews should be the other way around.

I use comments for feedback and reviews for reviews, because reviews have a star rating and comments do not.  As a result, feedback aimed at the developer is publicly visible and reviews aimed at the general public are not.

(+19)

Yeah personally I think this is completely wrong and needs changing. I have looked at games and tried to find the reviews(before I realised how it worked) and left because I thought nobody had bothered reviewing it. 

(+10)

I agree that if a dev opts to allow reviews with ratings they should be visible to anyone.

(+16)

I think Itch.io needs a review system that customers can see. Yeah, you can post reviews in the comment section, but that's like setting up a tent in a parking space; that's not where it's supposed to go. If they do add reviews, they should let us include files and give us a file limit of at least 5, 6mb at the minimum so we can add in a few screenshots and a short 720p .mp4 or .webm showing gameplay (or how to do a glitch, easier to demonstrate through video than text and it's evidence that it works).

(+2)

You could argue that pictures and videos are what hyperlinks are for.
Linking to a YouTube video is convenient enough for a comment and if for whatever reason it fails to post properly, you don't have the frustration of re-uploading said video.
As for photos...there are various sites folk use for storing them.

Another thing, I don't like about leaving specific feedback in the comments is, that people leave all kinds of comments, not everyone of a quality level that would be considered constructive feedback. So, it's totally fine to chit-chat in the comments, but it would bury actual

(+9)

I completely agree, I've been reviewing games and adding things thinking that they would help other people thinking of getting the game but they're... not public??? What's the point of a written review then?  I use comments for quick quips about enjoying the game and reviews for actual, yknow, REVIEWS, but the comments are all people see

(+8)

Perhaps to avoid help devs obsessing over numbers the words should be public but scores/aggregate scores should stay as-is?

It’s kind of nice to have a place where 5-star reviews isn’t the only metric that matters

(+1)

There could be more metrics like

  • Story
  • Gameplay
  • Characters (distinctiveness, development)
  • Interactivity (choices, paths, consequences, etc.)
  • Worldbuilding
(+16)

In addition, I'd personally like the option to reply to reviews. Ask for more clarification on what could be done better, suggestions, and let people know that updates to fix the problems they had are on the way. It's so weird that reviews of all things are private, even if allowed by the dev.

(+7)

Damn, I was reviewing things thinking it could be helpful for bypassers in case they were interested. But now I learn it's basically useless, and just a direct message?

That sucks...

What's the point of a metric being visible but not showing the added comment about it? It's contrary to any kind of rating style I know of.

I really hope they change this. How would I know if I want to try out something if I'm not able to know why people liked/disliked it.

(+1)

Just wanted to add in my support for this as well, I definitely would want my reviews to be visible. Even if it’s just an option for reviews to be visible or not (which is its own can of worms in itself but I don’t think too many people would abuse that).

(1 edit) (+6)

As someone who's completely new to the website, I mainly registered to leave a review on a game I really enjoyed. Did that on the comment section and then wanted to check out, if there's anything more I could do for the game - like rating it, etc. And then I had to google a bit to figure out where the difference between commenting and reviewing is ... I'd really like to rate the game, but then I'd have to send my review twice to the developer and also the rated review wouldn't be public? That's just so confusing, honestly.


I think that both leaving a public comment/review and sending a private (for example for detailed bug reports) message to the developer would be viable.

 However, I'd find a merged system nice, where when I want to comment on a game, I get asked if I want to just comment (maybe for a quick question n stuff) or leave a rated review (Plus maybe the option if I want this to be public or private?). Both ideally with the possibility for the dev to reply properly.

(+1)

I think, it could be quite beneficial if, additional to reviews, there'd be an option for feedback (see https://itch.io/post/4639621) for different kind of things:

  • Bug reports (attach log files)
  • Visual feedback (attach screenshot with a comment)
  • Text corrections (would be great if there could be something like version-controlled edit suggestions or the like)
(1 edit)

Reviews can be used to manipulate persons opinions and induce biases about any work, for both good and evil purposes. I believe this decision was to avoid letting someone make use of "mob mentality" against developers.

I personally prefer it this way, since who benefits most from reviews are the developers themselves.

(+7)

Can't that just be exploited using the comments system anyway, though?

(+2)

At some extent, yes. But the reviews also score the game and the chances of it to appear in the store recomendations. If a lot of persons decide to give a 1/5 star score to said game, not because the game is bad, but because of personal purposes, the developer surely will suffer from it.

(+6)

But you can still do that anyway. How does hiding the text of reviews prevent review-bombing?

(+2)

You have a good point. It won't prevent at all.

(1 edit) (+1)

I agree with A.L. Neto. I too prefer it as it is now.

Yeah, but that's not a problem with reviews, that's a problem with human communication.  If the aim is to prevent cancel mobs, this is the equivalent of building a gate with no fence - and not even in the specific spot where you would need a full gate+fence, but in the middle of a completely unrelated street in the next town over.

(+10)

Reviews hardly seem to serve any purpose.  Star ratings without context are meaningless to both developers and buyers; star ratings with context are borderline superfluous, and far more granular than is actually useful.  Stars only seem to exist as a visibility metric to give the site a way to help popular games get more popular.  Want to help out a game?  Uprate it.  Want to actively hurt a game?  Downrate it.  On top of that, we can't even reply to reviews, making even a review with text a far less useful way to engage the developer than just leaving a comment.

If it weren't for the "top-rated" tab, I would probably just disable reviews.  That and the fact that it probably makes it look like I'm not open to feedback, when I'm actually trying to encourage it.

(+5)

I think everyone stumbles about that "feature" here. Easy fix would be to rename it from review to feedback. Maybe it was planned differently and scratched for various reasons and reduced to be only to the dev. I do not understand why it is visible to followers. That should have been scratched as well.

Public reviews have advantages, but also bring new problems. Problems an indie platform might not want to deal with. A dev has complete control over comments, if desired. For reviews that opens a can of worm. If you give the devs control over the reviews, that review section is worth nothing. And if you do not do that, you have to moderate it and you can bet that devs will whine and bitch about "unfair" reviews.

(+4)

chiming in to say it's super dumb reviews work this way. i had a sizeable handful of review comments from people that i literally never knew about until i happened to click the ratings page for a work that had one. i never would have known to look otherwise! either change the name to feedback or make the reviews public: the people writing them clearly expected them to be!

(+8)

That's the thing: I'm not even asking for the feature to be radically modified and scrapped altogether; It just needs to be made clear to users that they are just sending the dev a private message and NOT writing a public review, contrary to how it's done on every other platform.

But this thread has now been up for a year and a half without any official answer one way or another, so I'm not holding my beath.

(+2)

yeah after replying to this thread i went and looked in their forum for new features and junk to see how often they implemented new things and was shocked at how little they're apparently doing to improve the site lol

Seriously hope they do something about this. Itchi.io could thrive if they fixed up the site a bit. 

Deleted 265 days ago
Moderator (1 edit)

Please make your own topic to post other complaints. Thank you.

(+5)

I checked all the possible settings to see if I missed something - I wanted the review to my game to be shown on the page together with the comments  - that's it. I don't need stars, just the players' feedback. But I had to google and I found this. A year old thread with no reply or comments from the mods.
Can you you please explain us how you intended this review vs comments concept to be used and tell if you have any plans to change anything?
Renaming reviews to feedback, as was suggested  - so that the person giving a "review" understands it will be shown to creator only seems like the easiest fix.

(+1)

"A year old thread with no reply or comments from the mods."

It will actually be two years at the end of the month, but this forum does that relative time thing that you see everywhere on the Internet now, so a year and 364 days will still show as "One year ago".

(3 edits) (+1)

I my experience, public reviews encourage dog piling and bias. When I uploaded my game on Newgrounds where reviews are public, there is a system where newly uploaded games and movies are "under judgement" where everything is hidden (ratings, reviews) until the game reached like 50 votes. My game passed with a decent rating (3/5) perhaps because people used their own personal judgement. But then right after a negative review shows up complaining about random things, suddenly a bunch more negative reviews started to pile in and as people  enter my game page, all they see are negative reviews so they too, left negative ratings until my game was reduced to 2.0 at 150 votes and almost got kicked off the platform.

Also no I'm not saying what game, not gonna let you guys come over and finish me off.

(1 edit) (+4)

As was already pointed out, itch does have a rating system already, and people can already leave negative comments on your game page.

I'm not asking for the creation of a new feature, just a clarification. The "Rate & Review" window should tell you specifically that your review will not show up publicly.

(+1)

"Public reviews" don't do that. Humans being able to communicate is what does that.  If you want to stop cancel mobs, you have to either move to an alternate universe populated by more reasonable sophonts, or put in the heavy moderation work on your platform to prevent it from happening.  You can't do it by blocking one particular avenue of human communication and leaving all the rest.

I don't even understand what you're trying to say. Do you want people to be completely unable to say anything about games?

(+1)

No.  I want people to stop trying to solve problems that boil down to "eliminate all the bad things that can be done with human communication," because [a] that has literally never worked, [b] the only way to accomplish it would involve total human extinction, and [c] it's almost always a distraction from some real problem (in this case, forum moderation), which requires a significant but achievable level of work to accomplish.  Substituting an impossible problem for a possible one is just a cheap way to avoid actually doing any work, and I have zero respect for that kind of moral cowardice.  

OK, that sounds... crazy. I'm not sure how you got to that point, but all I'm saying is that it should be made obvious that "reviews" are not made public, but sent to the publisher/dev as a private message.

I was responding to the guy (Mango Scribble) who said, and I quote, "public reviews encourage dog piling and bias."

(+5)

Also chiming in to add that I agree with the feedback. I'm hoping that reviews can either be made public (pretty much everywhere else, I expect reviews to be public because they can help other people decide if they might also like thing being reviewed), or renamed to "private feedback". Thanks for this thread!

(+3)

The way itch.io's system works is weird in general. When you publish a game, there is a checkbox, saying "Make game visible." If you don't check that box, your game that you published is not visible. Ummmmm, so when I publish a book, if the publisher don't put it on the shelves, if they don't even put it in a search engine, that doesn't seem very published to me.  We call these things "Drafts."

And yes, writing a long review that nobody could see is kinda off.

(+3)

I just found out about this now and while I understand what you're trying to do here, naming an action a "review" implies that it behaves like a "review" on other common platforms. If you're not going to consider making reviews public, then PLEASE rename "review" to "give feedback". The current wording just made me assume that devs would be notified of a review, but it would still be visibile to all.

I personally find public reviews to be very useful before I buy a game, and the ones I've seen on itch.io have been very helpful to me (as well as kind to the developer). I also left some reviews to help others out but realised only now that no one would have seen them. That is an issue - how you address it, is your decision.

(1 edit) (+1)

I know itch.io has a very small team. I think it would be nice to address the comments here. I personally think a system like Bandcamp is nice. I like the developer having control of their page. There are a lot of mean reviews and comments I've seen people make. Let us choose reviews to highlight on the page. Or just let us turn off reviews. Some people don't want to be scored by strangers and just want to share art for the joy of it. 

Edit - Just realized you can turn off ratings. That's great.