Skip to main content

Indie game storeFree gamesFun gamesHorror games
Game developmentAssetsComics
SalesBundles
Jobs
TagsGame Engines
A jam submission

Can You Beat Chroma?View game page

Play the game of your childhood, and try to beat it using guides and glitches.
Submitted by rioreur — 2 days, 22 hours before the deadline
Add to collection

Play game

Can You Beat Chroma?'s itch.io page

Leave a comment

Log in with itch.io to leave a comment.

Comments

Got chroma turtle and shroom, but primavolt seemed like it would take some grinding because I wasn't certain about the timing.

It's a very interesting concept, but I think it wears off quickly. Frontloading all the information even if theoretically optional doesn't let players be clever and explore the game on their own. Immersion is also sacrificed as a result. 

Locking progression behind exploits is a banger idea, though focusing on timed execution rather than pure knowledge checks adds a lot of friction (but I can respect the brave design decision).

Developer

The current game manual is probably one of the weakest point of the game. I have a lot of information to convey, and I also had a lot of system to create to this is a trade of to have something playable.

This needs to be reworked at some point to allow a better "on boarding" experience.

Hopefully you can have an early game were the game takes you by the hand and introduces you to most concepts, and gradually let you do things and glitches on your own.


Still a lot of work to be done, but thanks for the feedback!

Submitted

This is so cool and incredibly well polished. I feel like I only scratched the surface after an hour which bodes well for the refund rate in future lol

I like how the save game spinner is so subtle. I can easily imagine a dev without vision making each rotation obvious, but this way I really felt the same nerves as I did turning off my gameboy during a pokemon trade back in the day lol.

It would be nice to have controller support for the game boy buttons.

This vod will disappear in a few days: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2718294505?t=0h3m47s

Developer

Oh, I've already seen it!
A friend of mine sent me the VOD already xD

I laughed a lot. I think you're the player which had the most chaotic experience I've seen so far.

The game central mechanic is getting chromatic creatures (creatures with perfect random stats and a different sprite) to beat tough trainers. But you completely skipped that aspect xD.

Not a criticism by the way, I know the game manual is pretty hard to get into. The big game manual is a compromise of the other ideas I had so I could actually release my game in less than a year and still communicate the pretty complex mechanics... But it's still a tough read.

Though it was very informative. It seems you still managed to have some fun while avoiding one of the main mechanic, which is a good sign I guess x)

I'll try to make the onboarding experience more palatable in the future.


As for the controller support, you're not the first person to ask for it. I'll see what I can do!

Submitted(+1)

-I'm trying to play, but the mouse is driving me nuts. It seems to gain increased latency like an awful software cursor(more than half a second behind my mouse) over the course of couple minutes(but it feels bad after only 30 seconds), then semi-randomly resets to near native. I just notice now that it also resets when I drag the window bar around. So with that I can actually play now, but preferably you would add an option to use hardware cursor in the options. I am using modern AMD cpu gpu on Win10.

-Not sure if it's a font issue, but sometimes during the countdown, the timer number display shifts left and right for a frame on almost every second or minute boundary.

-Took about 2-4 tries to get the first chroma, my years of rhythm game experience probably helping. Which makes me wonder, if you should add an audio calibration so the countdown sfx can be better synced with player input, since we're talking about frameish perfect tricks here.

-Cute, I like having to stamp the achievements manually. Maybe being a bit silly, but it's weird to have an ink stamp for each one, would make more sense if it were printed stickers or something. Albeit I don't know stamps maybe it's dirt cheap either way.

-Countdown volume isn't changing with the options. In fact it plays even if you mute everything.

-Trying to get chroma Schroomth, much harder than the other one with like 20+ attempts. Oh wait nvm I just forgot about the -40 thing, woops! Got it first try after that (⌐■_■). I also then got the chameleon guy first try. Though it was a bit tense since the wait time was over a minute. Hopefully you ensure the RNG doesn't make it so you have to wait more than 3 minutes or something.

-If you press a button with the mouse and hold it down, the sfx for the press will repeat ad nauseum exponentially until it's playing every frame. Oh nvm I guess it's intended to button repeat fast to speed things up. But, then why doesn't it repeat(nor play the press sfx) when holding with the keyboard keys? ie spacebar.

-Primeape is giving me troubles for real, and the wait time makes it hard to stay motivated. I did the math on the encounter I got and was only 2 frames late. Sucks to suck I guess. I almost want a method to skip ahead time so it's less of a slog, but I guess it's the point? It depends how often you need to do this waiting, and if it's worth dissuading some people from doing  the more advanced tricks you want them to find.

-I give up and start battling the beach bros, and also get the gacha stamp. I beat all but the last beach guy, so guess I'm back to trying to get the primeape... eventually I get tired and read some of the comments and see that apparently there's a delay to the primeape battle start? I just so happened to see a monster 2 frames later with the same stats as the one I caught, and I only see it again at +22 frames(754chroma -> 776), so I guess that's the real offset I'm working at? What a great contrivance to convince me the cutscene wasn't adding to the rand function; I thought it was instant like the other static encounter.

-I proceed to get the chroma first try (⌐■_■)(⌐■_■). But really it stinks that that happened. idk how you can prevent that sort of random troll, unless clarifying that cutscenes always add to the rand function or something. Assuming I didn't gloss over something like that. I then got the rod and got the last chroma. Note that the achievement pops up before the wait for the success of copying finished. May be 'bug' or not.

-You can still use out of combat moves like pheromone when the mon is dead.

-I was getting extra mons for the sake of unlocking equipment and realized I maybe messed up by not copying more than one of the chroma primeape? Maybe I can copy the boss's one? Though it makes me wonder why I can't copy my own mons.

-Even though the option exists, I can't actually equip items from the Team menu, only the Items and Computer menu.

-Every now and then, pressing menu doesn't open the menu when it should. It seems to happen after events that start without your input, like the text of pheromone when used not in grass, or after a respawn after being beat. However, this is only the case if you proceed the last dialogue with Action not Menu. Then once you regain control you press menu and it does nothing the first time. See this:


-I try a couple more times fighting the last beach bro but I'm getting a bit tired, I don't really like pokeman to begin with. Suppose I could do some duplication to stack equipment. Think I'll leave it there though. Didn't look for any secrets, maybe I'll try another day assuming saves are a thing.

So overall a cool puzzle / glitch showcase type game. Though, the time to satisfaction ratio felt lacking. Doesn't help you can easily waste a bunch of time without knowing you're barking up the wrong tree. Since this is like a puzzle game having all the puzzles available at once, it can be both overwhelming and directionless. So if you make details revealed over time it may help the surprise and pacing. Though in that regard, it's unlike puzzle games because instead of having to figure out the rules you skip to hints that just tell you what to do. So idk it may be impossible to make it really great while not driving players crazy.

Keep up the good work.

Developer(+1)

About the cursor problem : 
Very weird... I had a similar bug reported to me during play test, but I wasn't able to reproduce the issue and have no idea what can cause it. Though an option to use the hardware cursor might be a good idea as a work around.

About the countdown timer number display shift :
Saw it, absolutely no idea what causes it, and also no idea how to reproduce it consistently... It's still pretty minor at the end of the day...

About the Audio calibration :
could be an idea, but it might be a bit redundant with the timer offset calibration which can be used that way.

About the ink stamp :
In my head those are pretty cheap... Stickers could be cool as well, but they more or less do the same purpose here.

About the countdown volume not changing : 
Dully noted, clearly a bug, I'll test that out later.

For the wait in between each chroma attempt : 
My goal is to be between 10 to 30 seconds for early game chromas. Right now that's how it mostly is, with some outlier being way earlier or later than that, but usually not more than a full minute.
I plan to have some encounters which makes you wait longer, but they would use a mechanic which helps you "save" a moment in time and reload it, to like, skip the first 5 minutes or something.

About the button being repeated when held :
All buttons do that EXCEPT the game console face buttons. At least they shouldn't, so I assume this is a bug. I'll test it out later

For Primavolt (or Primeape as you said) : 
I'm torn on this one... The offset between the moment you start the battle and the moment the encounter is decided was unintentional. I added a small animation, and it created this "issue". But when doing play testing, some players just got to work, read the game manual and figured out how to time it correctly (as the solution is written down), which is what I want this game to be in the end. A puzzle game where you go through a big game guide to find useful informations. But yeah... This has been a point of frustration for many, so I'm hesitant about keeping it... Maybe just giving more hints about the solution would be a good idea (I saw a really good suggestion in an other comment about making the Game manual an actual guide on what to do in the game in what order. I need to think about this...).

Also, the issue you had is very unfortunate... My conclusion is that the "here how you can correct the timing" is not working as intended right now.

About the success popup timing before you did the caputre : 
That's pretty minor, but I should probably look into it... Feels better if it appears right when you do the capture.

About being able to still use outside of combat abilities of creatures that are dead : 
That's intentional. It's just for convenience.

About the creatures you can't really get back to (Primavolt and Tortolodon) : 
There are ways to get them back, but I count that as "hidden" content :D.
Do know that it requires the use of glitches though

About not being able to equip items in the team menu : 
Huh... That's weird... maybe I broke something when adding the option to equip from the computer? I'll test that out later.

About the bug where pressing the menu doesn't work : 
I think I know what causes this... I'll look into it


Anyway, thanks a lot for this HUGE feedback.
The game being kind of "directionless" has been a common criticism, and I think it's a fair point. I'll try to think about a way to better guide the player...
Also, the current game manual is definitely an other issue (kinda hard to find the information you want... Or even to know if the information is there).

I probably won't fix those aspect before a while (because those are a lot of work) but I take note!

Submitted

Thanks, it's fun to read the thought process on these things. A few notes I'll add:

Here's my ID, so you can see the unfortunate Primavolt contrivance yourself: 755616. Summary: Chroma is 754; I catch a mon which I identify as 756, but it was actually 776.

One thing that came to mind, is to include the HP on the encounter tool. So it adds another stat to make each random encounter more different, thus (more likely) preventing accidental matching. Unless HP is corelated to the STR DEF DEX already, ie 1 3 3 always == 6 HP or something.

With the audio calibration, I guess that's a fair point. Also I forgot how most calibration works, it's mainly for the visual to audio latency, but if you just use the audio of the timer to time your press it doesn't matter as much. Assuming the audio itself isn't desynced from the keyboard input too much.

Developer

The max health is just twice the STR.

Did I somewhat forgot to write that down somewhere? I feel a bit dumb if that's the case... I'll check that out later as well.

Submitted(+1)

First of all, fantastic presentation. This is extremely well polished. I really like the idea of having all the tools, including the game, as if they were phisical objects. Very nice.

The game itself is very pretty. Almost makes me want a proper version of this not-pokemon, to play properly haha. Good taste on the moster designs as well.

Now for the parent game itself, it is a very interesting concept. Having to glitch the game to progress. My opinion on how should you scale the game:

Right now, we have a guide, but is not a game guide, is a guide on how to perform some glitches inside the game.

What I think you should do, is provide an actual guide, on what to do to beat the game. Like where to go, what glitch to use when, etc. This will be "NG". The catch will be that, you will be following a linear path provided by the guide, but as the player begins to familiarize itself with the possible glitches, they will discover that there are a lot of other things todo, outside of the guide. So it will be maybe a "NG+" kinda of thing. Maybe even allow for glitches not present in the guide to exist, that the player can learn about somehow.

Anyway, it's just an idea. Maybe not the best idea...

But very interesting game. Keep up the good work.

Developer(+1)

Hi, thanks for playing!!!

I think that's actually a really good idea... I got focus a bit too much on explaining the different glitches and how to do them, but if you look at old game's guide, they usually were centred more about how to beat the game. They weren't trying to be exhaustive.

I had an idea to replace the game manual with a forum where you could be a bit more proactive in how you got glitches and found out new bugs, but having both (an obscure forum to search for the hidden stuff, and a guide on how to beat the game) might be what I'm looking for...

I'll think about it

Submitted(+1)

That a very good idea, having the guide, and the forum to search new glitches, and things to do. Good luck on the development!

Submitted(+1)

Very cool concept.

Busted out pen and paper after reading the manual but to my great shame I couldn't get the first glitch to get a chroma starter to work. Thought it might have been some framerate related thing but limiting the game to 60 did nothing. Spent like half an hour trying, changed seeds and save files but I can't seem to trigger it. RIP.

Developer

Hi, thanks!

The randomness isn't frame dependant.

Right now, it changes 16 times per seconds, but you also have an auto-correction if you're off by a at most 2 frames so the precision you need to have is 5/16 of a second (so about 0.31 seconds).

Though if you have difficulties, there is an option in the"escape" menu to increase this auto-correction (the "Encounter Assist" option).

You can increase it up to "8" which means you can be up to 8 frames off. This way, you have about a second of leeway (0.5 seconds before and after the correct timing), which should be hopefully enough for everyone.
If you still have difficulties, I would assume you're doing something incorrectly... If you want I can give help if you can provide a video of what you're doing.

Submitted

hmm, can't get it to work with max assist either.


Am I missing something?

Developer (1 edit)

Well then, I guess either you struggle with how to time it (happens), or something is done incorrectly... Kinda hard to tell without seeing a video sadly.

Your Encounter tool seems to be correct though


The important parts are : 

  • Start the timer and your save file at the exact same time (not a new save file, the one you saved with the ID you wrote down on the Encounter tool)
  • Trigger the dialog that displays the Tortolodon right when the timer reaches zero (It's the dialog just after "And to go with it...")

Using the timer audio cue helps a lot.


If it still doesn't work, it might actually be a bug, but I doubt it as this part was tested out extensively...

Submitted

Take a look I made you a video.

https://s1.webmshare.com/KJGJq.webm

Double checked that the seed is for file1 btw

Developer

Links give me a 404 not found sadly

Submitted

Sorry, try this one:

Developer

Ok, fun fact: I have the exact same ID as you on my personal save (I know this can happen, not sure why people tend to get the same ID but not an issue).

Anyway, I don't have the same result as you when using the encounter tool...

For me, Rand 174 is just a normal Tortolodon.

To get a chroma, I have to go to Rand 319.

I think someone had this issue in one of my playtest, but it was a while back, it happened only once on a really old version, and I think the problem resolved itself by doing a hard reset on their save...

I should probably look into it more (I'll add it to the todo list) but I think you should try to fully reset your game using the overall option menu, and then uninstall and reinstall your game...


Sorry, but without knowing what causes the issue, I can't really give more recommendations...
The only thing that comes to mind is that the ID displayed in the encounter tool is not the same as the one being used for calculation for some reason (maybe an issue with how it's saved...). But right now, I have no idea...

(1 edit) (+1)

I really like this concept.

So I'm trying to get a chromy primavolt and it's difficult, because there seems to be a delay between starting the actioning the monkey and actually starting the battle (I think?). But there's no good way of exactly knowing how long this delay is. Should I be aiming for when the screen turns completely white? Or when the battle jingle starts? Or when the monkey first appears on screen?
OR maybe it actually does happen right on action input and I just got the timing slightly wrong... And so it's very hard for me to rule anything out.

So I guess a solution is to just put another section in the handbook on animation-delayed encounters. Just so I know for sure I'm on the right path and not restarting over-and-over aiming for the wrong target.

OR, and this is completely stupid and insane, let the player view a copy of the games decompiled source code.

^LMAO.


I feel like there should be more, cooler things I should be getting from breaking the game. Doing all this work for slightly better stats is just a little bit lame.

Some cooler things: Legendary Chrome that has a .001% chance to appear. Missingno-like glitch chrome. 


I would like to see this lean more into the real-life aesthetic: maybe we're playing this on a kitchen table, maybe we have a phew chromie-collectible-trading-cards scattered off to the side, that kind of thing.

Developer (12 edits) (+1)

Thanks!

For the Primavolt timing, there is multiple ways to find the correct timing, but the most consistent one is in the "Tips to help with the encounter tool timing" part of the Game Manual.
This tip doesn't require you to know when the battle starts (and when the encounter is decided), but if you want to know it's right when the flashing animation of the battle begins

As for what you can be getting from breaking the game, their is a lot of hidden content currently already implemented. Primavolt is still kind of the early game, just so you finish to understand how to get chromatic creatures. And I definitely plan to add more (for example, with the current game you can use a glitch to get out of the starting house without getting your Tortolodon. For now it does nothing, but I do plan on building upon that idea of roaming around in the game without a valid team, though there definitely are glitches currently in the game that do do something and gives cool rewards)

Finally, for the real life aesthetic, my original goal was to have a hand hovering and touching the different elements where you click, as well as having a kind of "Desk" aesthetic with random furniture you could move around.
Though in the end I didn't go with it yet, as it wasn't the easiest thing to do and didn't add that much to a first demo version. I put priority on the gameplay and game systems.

I figured out the chromy monkey after reading that section in the manual.

I'm curious how you might encourage these glitches while also maintaining the front of: "This is a retro video game that you could technically beat just by playing normally".

I have not found any secrets yet. 

But I have gotten inside the monkey.

Developer

Huh... I'm not sure how you did that...
If that's with a saving glitch then I guess I can't really do anything about it, but if it was through an other mean it probably deserves some fixing x)

As for the "How to encourage the player to do glitches", my current best idea is to replace the game manual with a forum of some sort. Like, you can find posts about how to perform things, but more importantly, you can ask questions to get specific answers.
Like, the first time you fail to get a chromatic Primavolt you unlock the "what is Primavolt offset in the encounter tool?" question or something.

This way, you could still search normally for answer, but you could also be a bit more proactive in getting them.
Also, it would allow me to handle pacing better and introduce mechanics one after the other, instead of the current "50 pages manual to read".


As for the secrets, I'll keep them mostly for myself but know that I got inspired by games like Blue Prince or Animal Well, so some of them are just not told at all xD.

Though I see you managed to get one of the "secret" stamps, which I would count as "hidden content" (as, it's not explicitly told that you can do that, and it is not strictly necessary to beat the game)

Submitted(+1)

b
very neat concept. I caught my first chromatic, wasn't sure what I was supposed to do in the game in terms of objectives after that. Saw I needed a pheromone skill guy but didn't know how to get one.

This seems like a game where you should have the player go though the entire subgame normally first, and then start to cheat it or something. Like there should be an official manual before the cheating stuff comes into play.
Developer (1 edit)

Thanks for playing!

For now, their isn't really a clear objective. It's more of a melting pot of the different concepts... Filling the stamp card maybe ? There is also a tough trainer at the end of the current game.

I thought about letting the player play the game normally first, but their was two issues... The first was that I think people wouldn't really want to redo the game they just did with glitches (not an easy transition), and the second was that their isn't any reasons to do glitches anyway if you can beat the game without them. I kinda want cheating to be mandatory (that's why there is no level up system, so you can't just farm your way out of your problems).

Though I do agree that it lacks some incentives right now... The main problem people point out is that the game manual is a big read to ask from the player right away.

If I make this into a full game, I'll probably entirely change the game manual for something more incremental.

Edit: Also, I just watched your video. God, I never really fought against Shroomoth with a low stat Tortolodon, this looks painful xD.
I already nerfed it before this release, but I should probably nerf it even more...

Submitted

I thought the hard battle was the games way of saying "wink wink try cheating"

Developer

Kinda, but kinda not that much x)

The real "time to cheat" hint should be the trainer preventing you to get into the beach.