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Jeroen P. Broks

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A member registered Feb 14, 2016 · View creator page →

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Well necromancing an old forum thread isn't ALWAYS a bad thing (it mostly is, but in some cases it isn't).

When it comes to your distaste about Epic. Epic used to be Epic Megagames, and were back then a bunch of enthusiastic developers themselves, and yeah they were semi-indie. Games like Epic Pinball, Jill of the Jungle and Jazz Jackrabbit, show the passion they had back then. Now that Epic has become a true AAA company, I miss that spirit, and let's say, most AAA companies are going that way, only a few exceptions. 

I like products (could be anything) made with passion for the job. Like I said, could be anything. Like Disney's movie "Snow White" in which Walt Disney literally put his own house on the line to get the funding to create that movie, and the animators would only be paid if the movie was a success, but you never know beforehand if it will be, so the animators too took a risk, but in the end the result was worth it, although the movie may not be completely fit for modern standards, but hey, this is the time pre-WWII we're talking about. And so I also like games written with passion.  Some of them may look amateur, but they are really cool nevertheless... Sites like itch.io and Game Jolt do have such games. 

A downside is that thanks to tools making coding very very easy these days, there are also a lot of products out there that never get finished, or some people who mindlessly dump some assets together.  The coming of the internet is also responsible for this, though. Back in my day (NOW I sound like an old man), there was no internet, or at least, only very little people had it. You had to come up with something really great to appeal magazines, and that wasn't exactly easy. And indeed jams are fun, but I prefer to aim for game that require time to develop rather than a game that must be ready in less than a week. 

And yeah, I guess I should be using Twitter more myself. I never liked that medium, but it appears to have great effects if you manage to write that "perfect tweet".

Thank you 😊

Thanks for the explanation, and now that I get an answer I didn't expect to get, I'm glad I asked.
Does this only affect web games? Or downloadable games as well?

The Secrets of Dyrt.NET (No link yet, as the project is in a too early stage for that)
image.png

Now I wonder (not that much of an issue to me. Since to my own JCR6 system that I use in nearly all my projects, this error won't hit me (good thing, as my project would exceed 1000 files otherwise already)), but why this limit anyway? Now the question by That Other Fish, makes me think it could indeed be because there could be too many files to find the main executable, and then indeed I wonder if files in sub-folders are indeed fine.... ;)

"Summon"? I wish I knew... Do we have a ping feature here so we can just use the "@ + username" system to notify somebody? (If not, it could be a handy feature).  If what you say is true only the administrators can tell us more now...

I've heard similar issues before, and then it appeared the old app didn't completely close before the new was being started, therefore causing a conflict. So I'd say try that first. If that doesn't help, then maybe we need to call out to our dear administration to enlighten us.

Now that is already more like it.... If I could verify that is really written by an employee of that site, it would be great.

I see that they do admit how risky it is, and that it's crazy and that they are quite unique.... Altogether.... I don't trust them.

The screenshots look cool however, I don't speak Russian (or any other language using the Cyrillic alphabet for that matter), and since your entire game page is in Russian, it makes me a bit hesitant to try the game. I hope you don't blame me... I'm already fluent in 2 languages and when I count languages I speak a little I even come to 4, so I hope you don't mind I don't feel like learning a 5th language ;)

Lua is pretty fast for an interpreted language, easy to learn, and due to the way it works with C/C++ very extensible indeed. I currently use it in combination with C# (although I must add that I use my own extension NIL with it), and there are also modules for both BlitzMax and Go to communicate with Lua, and possibly many other languages.

If you plan to use C/C++ for your "hardcore code", then Lua could be a good choice for scripting indeed. I don't know about AI libraries for Lua (I never looked for those myself), but I do know that knowing Lua is always handy, since many professional companies work with it. There are many games written in it, and there are even some professional tools out there which use Lua for configuration and add-ons. It is said that if you ever want to be a professional game programmer, that knowing Lua can get you very very far (sometimes even further than knowing C/C++, depending on the company... or so some some people say).

A few genres I like: 

- Puzzle Games
- Action adventure
- Point and click adventures
- Dungeon crawler RPG (like Eye of the Beholder and Lands of Lore)

My most favorite is likely the turn-based jRPG. Final Fantasy may be the most famous series in that, but for me the series is (only a few episodes are notable exceptions like FF9, FFX and FF6) is heavily overrated (not bad, but overrated), I've played many other titles in this genre as well, like Grandia, Wild Arms 1-5+altercodef, Breath of Fire I-IV (I REFUSE to see Dragon Quarter as part of the series), Atelier series (although there I still do miss loads of titles), and well also Disgaea (although that is more a tactical RPG series). And if you wonder why you see RPGs in my profile, I guess you now know why :)

Nope!

And what benefit do you have by lying? Well, the benefit must be great as I've heard lies about payment systems on other sites dozens of time, during my time as a moderator for Game Jolt, where the same discussion also comes back a lot.  Oh, and proof was never provided there either, and by now I even know some claims about itch.io were made that have now been denied by moderators here, so yeah, I wonder too what the point in lying is, but hey, I am not the one making these claims,so, how could I know 😜 Impatience comes to mind first. (that or misunderstanding of the systems other sites have).

Second, what you show is NOT what I asked for. I asked official documentation about the payment policies. None were provided. The screenshots you show wouldn't convince me that easily. First of all, the data on the screenshots isn't full, so no irrefutable relations are shown. Second, even if they were about the same payment, nothing's been proven. Multiple purchases could have taken place, of which the true purchase is outside of the screenshot, and that by coincidence somebody bought the same game just on the same day the previous purchase was paid out, which is just one of the dozens of theories that can... Oh, and in times of photoshopping I'm surprised you believe screenshots can convince anybody that easily.  (Most internet shopping sites do not provide the name of the buyer, since privacy laws don't allow them to).

And even if the claims are true, then DriveThruRPG must have some way in which they can do that in a risk-free way. Like I said before I don't believe only honest people make use of their service (as they'd be the first company in the history of mankind to which that happens), however if people get swindled through DriveThruRPG, they will get the blame and not the swindlers (that's how the human mind works) and I don't think DriveThruRPG can let that happen. They'd be out of business already if they were that naive. If they really pay out immediately, they must have some kind of safeguard. Can you show me the documentation on their site that proves this. And even if it's noted there some extra clauses must exist so they can catch things up. I was asking for this documentation on their part. Not for some screenshots which provide too little information.

If DriveThruRPG would just give out payments immediately without any kind of good reasoning behind it they'd be either a) stupid or b) beyond naive or c) not legal themselves. Either way I wouldn't do business with them, in that case (nor would ANYONE in their right mind), so if they do, I wanna see how they can do that, and laws in most countries obligate proper documentation on such things... Show me that... Not some non-informative screenshots, as they don't help me at all...

Python is actually being "abused". It was NEVER meant for big software productions, and that's also why it's next to undoable to distribute stuff in it. Python is a prototype language. Meant to test simple algorithm theories, and for that it's great. I've used Python a lot for that purpose. To test small algorithm theories, but as soon as algorithms become really complex I mostly go to either Go or C#.

The Python compiler you mentioned does NOT transform Python code into machine code. What it does is merge Python itself, bytecode of your program and the bytecode of all used libraries together into one big .exe file so it will be easily distributable. Due to this speed issues will still remain (Oh, in my experience Go is even slower, and Go does compile into machine language, which makes it even worse). Also the python compiler may only work well if you limit yourself to pure Python code and the libraries that came with Python by default. Games written in PyGame won't work after being compiled as PyGame has some machine code libraries that the Python compiler will simply ignore... So much for that solution.... 😒

Since payment stuff is always very sensitive to fraud, the exact policy in how money is given out must be written out somewhere by the site's administration. And means both the positive and negative. Legal issues you get when you don't, can work out quite terrible, you know. Whatever you call it, yeah, I wanna have some official sources that allow me to verify the claim that DriveTrueRPG does really pay out immediately, and does not hold your money for 60 days (or any time period for that matter). You are the one making that completely incredible claim, so you can't blame me for wanting to see some official sources that back that claim up.

Now what is meant by "bad review"... bad quality of the review itself or a review speaking bad about the product being reviewed. The term is always confusing... 
And your post can be interpreted in multiple ways... A review of a reviewer who didn't understand the product they were reviewing, or a clear obvious fake only written to either give a game false praise in order to get more downloads/buys... In the case of self promotion the latter seems most likely. Fake reviews are often easy to recognized by not mentioning anything content-wise that makes the reviewed product unique, like story-line stuff for example. I've also seen fake reviews (plus ratings) in a way to give a game a bad rep, as a kind of trying to break somebody. Both are equally terrible in my book .

Can you source that claim? The risk DriveTruRPG takes by this would be so unacceptably high, and I can't believe only honest people come to that site. I want to be able to verify this claim before I believe it. Even when refunds are offered in store credit only it would be very very costly if the real money was already sent away, since these 'credits' can then replace real money in a different purchase, so that doesn't make much of a change in risks compared to real-money refunds, so bringing that up as the reason why they would instantly pay out doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Hmmm, sounds risky. You sure the users of "direct to you" are sued and not itch.io if anything goes wrong?
I would not be fond myself to include such a feature if I were ever to host a site like this (no plans in the nearby future though).
Well I trust you guys also know what you are doing ;)

"Ironically, someone on Game Jolt was recently using us as an example of marketplace that pays creators instantly"

I wonder, since as a former Game Jolt moderator I've received many complaints (even a short time before my days as a GJ moderator came to an end), about people who got into distrust since they had to wait for their money for some time. Although I was not in charge of GJ's marketplace I too know that GJ keeps your money for at least a week if not longer, and indeed fraud prevention and/or refunds are also the reason there (I never heard of the Direct To You payment method, actually).  By the way I am also a novel writer, and (Dutch) novels I sell also do not cause me to get my money instantly (depending on when a novel has been sold I may even have to wait for a month). 

"if DriveThruRPG sends your money instantly, that means they have no good way to handle refunds and fraud."

Which I would deem very very stupid, and a very good reason to never release anything there (at least not paid stuff), as I would be willing to wait for my cash to make sure no legal issues can arise. It's not only the seller who can try to swindle a site and its users, you know. Buyers can too, and cause a lot of trouble in the process.


Now on Game Jolt too claims came in that "other sites" (and yes, some of them even mentioned itch.io, how convenient) pay you instantly came in, and I was always a bit skeptical about it, and I guess now that I see this topic, I got my evidence, the claims were a lie (at least as far as itch was concerned) 🤣

Beholders were specifically designed for DnD, so they can be used by Wizards of the Coast to bully you (no, they are not fighting copyright infringement. They are just bullying you, however the law backs them up, showing that justice is not always just). Same goes for gnolls and Sahuagin, and I couldn't even bother anymore to look up the Mind Flayer (which I did also find in Final Fantasy I (for PlayStation), under a different name, but I guess that's rather a miss-translation than a copyright issue avoidance).
Like MaxSMoke777 said, the majority of the monsters you'll find in the monsters manual for DnD (any edition) are directly copied from folklore and mythology and some of them even from religions that still have followers today (like Tarasque, which came from a French Christian legend). Trolls regenerating can be a hard one.

Trolls themselves are in the public domain due to being part of age old folklore. I looked them up, but could not find mention of regenerating properties. Now I did also find Trolls in the Wild Arms series, who have a free healing action at the end of every turn in combat, which makes me think that was heavily inspired on the regeneration properties the DnD-variant is famous for, and I doubt Wizards of the Coast were ever paid royalties for the examples I just named.

It's alright... I'm just new myself to the "inner depths" of itch.io, I posted some stuff here, but only recently I got the analyze the site seriously.

Well, yeah, I found the latter out by myself a few moments ago, but thanks anyway, but the first one was indeed a bit odd to me, so thanks a lot for clearing that one up.

Cynthia Johnson

I tried to search your game without success either (assuming that "OviVixen" is the game we're talking about). Now I just tried one of my own games (just to see if that would work) and that did pop up... Now something else... I did try to download OviVixen through the Itch App, and that didn't work. Said the game was not for my platform, and yet when I analyse the zip file (downloaded through FireFox this time) I just an .exe files (and I am on Windows). I wonder if these issues are connected somehow.

I don't live there.... I live in the Netherlands but not in Holland. To put it even stronger, I gotta travel approx 30 km at least to reach Holland, if I had a car. Since I don't (and am therefore denied passage to the motorway) I got a longer way to travel for that.
Where are you from, so I can deem a province from your country the country as a whole....

I guess there are rare cases in which necromancing a thread is fully justified 😁😁

I'm normally not fond of speaking things like these out on a public forum, but since the user in question did already seek out the community by themselves I guess, being transparent about the matter and put it out in the open is now the right way to go. The things listed here are very serious offenses I must say.

You know, there are many engines and or languages I never even tried. Like ClickTeam Fusion for example. I've always been in the lower level languages.

For me C never really worked as it lacks too many features I hardly can do without, and the chance of memory leaks is pretty great. C++ came more to my liking... Not quite the best (for me), but a lot better already. I've grown to hate Python for the same reason I don't want to give Godot a try for.... Scope-indent... One tiny mistake in your indenting and you'll get parse errors or bugs that will take forever to pinpoint let alone fix them. Maybe having to write countless end-commands or }s can be a bit annoying, but at least you can make sure, everything's right. Especially since some IDEs easily mess up spaces and tabs, and in language like Godot and Python that's the road to HELL!

I always think "anti-social media" are a better term (considering how things go there). I do have accounts there, but I rarely use them....

Okay, I didn't know that, but I guess if what you say is true, things come to a completely different light.

And perhaps if you want the administration to take you seriously, a good way to start is not by posting five messages, where one would have sufficed, and perhaps a good way to go is also not to call people (administrator or regular user alike) names. 

And there could all be a very good explanation for this, but perhaps it would be a good idea to let the administrators speak, before making any assumptions. It could just have been a database error, you know, in which case, things should be traceable. After the admins have spoken, we know if you have reasons to be mad or not.

Now that is aboslutely incaceptable! :P

I remember the same "conversation" (read: flame war) in Game Jolt, and we basically came to the same conclusions....
"I think video comments are good if the videos actually show the game."
I must agree with leafo on that one (and no I'm not trying to score points with an administrator). There are not many ways in which a YouTuber can make the dev of a game know they shot that video, and loads of people will actually be interested if it handles videos about the game, whether it be "Let's plays", walkthroughs or reviews, or just videos showing a few playing techniques. Should all be allowed. When people do indeed shamelessly promote their channels regardless of being related to the game, I too think they are spam.

Now on Game Jolt I've seen a side problem in this discussion though. Some people branded YouTubers who posted RELATED videos to games as spam went shouting and using abusive language towards the YouTuber to vent their views on that. I don't know how that goes here on itch.io, but I think it should be taken a look at if that happens here or not. 

Banning video posts from comments is not gonna solve matter though, and is in fact a very bad idea. For starters, I've already received some videos in comment sections on games I posted (not on itch, but on other sites) where the videos showed some very nasty bugs, and it was only to those videos I could see why they happened and come to a fix. Furthermore, especially when videos contain "Let's plays" or reviews, the videos do add information to potential players about the game, which can help them decide if this is the game for them or not, particularly since itch.io also allows selling stuff, such videos can then be of vital importance.... And I don't think dev approval is gonna work. Some devs never mind the comment sections of their game, and considering the time you sometimes need to put up a good video, it can scare serious video posters away, making everyone to suffer.

Best way to go is... Is the video related, leave it be. You don't HAVE to watch them. If it's pure channel promotion, report them, and let the moderators handle them.

In side the client app for itch.io I see the same as I see in the browser, and everything looks like it was never supposed to be able to download flash games (which is actually also what I suspected). Perhaps you came past a few games which were specifically configured to be downloaded before... I've checked this even out with a downloadable game, where the download/install button does appear.

It looks to me the app was never intended to grand the possibility you claim it should have (it really doesn't look like that to me, at least). Oh yeah, the app also wants me to install Flash....

It does? Then I'll have a closer look later today (I'm in the middle of a coding session myself, right now) in using the app.
You mean the GUI based App and not Butler... right?

Okay, I don't see a download link at all, as these games are (as I suspected) supposed to be played inside a browser.

What I see is "Adobe Flash is required to run this project in the browser. Enable Flash".
Now since Flash has been deprecated I never bothered to even try to install it at all, and it's not even fruitful to get this to work, since Flash will finally die in 2020. I don't know if itch.io has any plans to make the .swf files downloadable (doing so could violate copyrights of the game's developers, so they gotta be careful on that one), but given the way these games have been uploaded here, and that Flash is going to die, that these games will die with it. The Microsoft browsers (IE and Edge) already stopped Flash support or will do so this year.

I'm very very sorry... But if this a fault on your computer I don't think you'll find much support, and if this is a bug in itch.io, I don't think it's in the site's interest anymore to get it fixed.


The Netherlands (and don't ever say "Holland" since that country doesn't exist!)

I feel stupid for this not being my idea... :)
It was really a good one... I think I'll defragment my mind some more soon ;)

zFRAG community · Created a new topic ZEN, eh?

So this tool is not a "real" defragger, eh?
I do remember defragmentation in the good old DOS days, and I must say, that it did indeed have some kind of calming effect to see the visual output of those tools back then ;)

I'd like to replicate this for myself, but since it can take me a long while to find out which games were written in Flash and which were not, perhaps things go faster if you post a few links to games you tried.

What I do know about Flash is that the entire concept has been deprecated, and that causes trouble on more and more sites now. Still I suppose downloading an .swf file should still work... Right?

I've been a member of itch.io for quite awhile, but I guess I never properly introduced myself here, or took part of the community at all. I guess, I need to change that.

First of all, my name is Jeroen, for those who don't know how to pronounce Dutch, I'll try to explain how to pronounce my name. In Dutch the "J" is pronounced as the "Y" as in "Yes". And "oe" is pronounced as "ou" as in "you" or "oo" as in "soon". The "r" is hard to explain, but it's a bit more 'rolling'. I guess "Yeroon" can give the global idea of how to pronounce my name. I guess it's also a clear giveaway now that I'm from the Netherlands.

I'm currently in my forties, and I've been coding since I was eight. I've been using many languages such as BASIC, Pascal, BlitzBasic, Blitz3D, BlitzMax, C, C++, Lua, Python, Lua and C#. And I've also developed my own language called NIL, which I'm currently using in a very very great project (which also allows me to fine tune the language a bit more, as this shows me any flaws the language COULD still have). 

To sum up a few more facts about me:

  1. Aside from coder I'm also a novel writer. My ages old novel Weniaria can be downloaded for free, but I can tell you, that was one of my first (and therefore not my best), but it did set up a basis for a lore that is sometimes a bit overwhelming for me too. Funny how things go.
  2. I like to play darts, although I haven't done it in a while, so I've gone a bit rusty. I also like to play pool (I'm not very good in it, but hey, I like to play for some fun. I don't wanna win the next world cup or something). :P
  3. I'm a former moderator of Game Jolt, that "other" indie site, and you can still find me there a lot. I've been a moderator and admin on multiple communities, though.
  4. I'm a man of contradictions. I can't stand tomatoes, but without tomato sauce my pizza is incomplete, and I do like tomato soup. You follow?
  5. Yes, I'm a man, NEVER allow my choice of avatars to fool you.
  6. I did play cabaret, or well, something like that, in the past. 
  7. Another crazy fact about me: For some reason I like watching "Masha and the Bear".
  8. I drink too much coffee
  9. I've been married before. Although, I'm divorced by now, I'm still on good terms with my former wife, whom I now regard as a good friend. (So yes, I'm single).
  10. I'm an Aspie, and proud of it! It allowed me to view the world in a way I would never have been able to if I wasn't.
  11. I'm approx 1.83m tall, and I wear glasses.
  12. I have a cat named Kitty, and she's adorable

When it comes to games, I like to create puzzle games and RPGs, although I do sometimes also do a few other genres. Well, and if you wanna know more about me.... Just ask.... I never promise an answer, but asking can't hurt, right?