This past year I've seen atleast two individuals attempting to re-upload games that were not made by them (and do not belong to them) to "archive" the games on itch.io. This is behavior is unacceptable, and I'm planning on making a video to discuss this issue.

But, I want to get your opinion before I make the video. 

• How do you feel about people archiving indie games? How would you react if you found a re-upload of your project?
• What if the game in question was removed by the creator? Does this change your answer to the previous question?
• In your opinion, is there any situation in which it is morally acceptable to re-upload a game you do not own?
• What preventative measures can developers take to prevent their games from being re-uploaded by a third party?

Thanks : )

Edit: Given the sensitive nature of this subject, I have decided to not make a video about it. Although I do feel it is important to talk about (which is why I will be leaving this thread up) I don't think I'm the right person to discuss it in a YouTube video. Thank you to everyone who provided their thoughts on the matter.

Honestly, I'd ask the developer first about it on such a subject and such a scenario, and listen to them. For example, if they say "You can give the copy to a few people at _____.", then I don't see the problem with it.

Otherwise, I wouldn't really re-upload it, in my opinion, as the developers probably have their reasons for taking it down (even if they're personal ones).

I understand alternative views. Some see a game as a work of art, and think art must be preserved. But, I think the comparison can still get a little muddy past surface level, so I'd still ask the developer.

This is hard to answer cause people who went the trouble archiving other dev's games must have a reason. Though not necessarily good reason.

If you're only discussing this matter in the forum like this, IMO it's fine. However, if you're going to make video about this, I highly recommend you to ask the games developer's comment and those people uploading those games first! listen from both sides so viewers could get enough insight and make their own judgements.

How do you feel about people archiving indie games? How would you react if you found a re-upload of your project?

 I give them my positive thought about them that they are doing it for good cause. But only if they specify the name of the developer of the games they've archived.

If they uploaded my games without asking me, I'd ask them why.

What if the game in question was removed by the creator? Does this change your answer to the previous question?

No. I'd still ask them why.

In your opinion, is there any situation in which it is morally acceptable to re-upload a game you do not own?

Only if it's done for preservation purposes.

What preventative measures can developers take to prevent their games from being re-uploaded by a third party?

Probably nothing. If you've shared your games to others, they have copy of your games and they could anything with them including uploading. If you don't want people to reupload your games then don't share them in the first place.

As others mentioned above, first and foremost there are legal matters to consider. Not even only for the archiver, but also sometimes for the dev themself, who could have a very good reason of why they only publish their game a certain way, or - because of that - how they can handle future sharing and archiving.

From an archiver's point of view: You can not >just< take another person's game and upload it without considering (and knowing) that legal situation. I think it was mentioned in another topic a while back, but there is no law for video games the same way as for some music and literature that has been made public-domain, and even there sometimes the situation is not that clear-cut nowadays.

With all that being said: I am also on the side of game preservation. As soon as you publish your work to the outer world, it starts connecting with it. That is partially why you wanted to create it, right? It can resonate with people - a lot even. It would be entitled of those people to say they have a right on it, yes. But it also seems short-sighted to take it away for them without reason. Or to not think about avoiding such an outcome.

Which brings me to how I would (generally) handle this situation: Try to plan a way you will handle this for future preservation. You have terms of use for your game, you want to keep it in your hands as long as possible and only the way you want it to be available. That is fine. But think about how you will open this up for a scenario x (or think about it when scenario x comes) and change your terms or add an addendum. Give your work (partially) into the hands of others, so that they can at least keep it online and alive.

At the end, it will always be the responsibility of the game dev, and they also will always have the last word. Which makes sense and I believe this should not be changed (unless something like public-domain would make sense). But they should also bear the responsibility to think further ahead about their work and what it means to the world. It would actually annoy me quite a lot to know I would have spend so much effort into my work just to see it gone one day because I did not set up a proper way to allow people keeping it around.

As others wrote: You should try to get a broader picture of the situation and ask both sides. I support you for opening this topic first - and making a video out of it can be informative and inspiring.

Video finished? You do not seem to have social links to the videos you make.

How do you feel about people archiving indie games? How would you react if you found a re-upload of your project?

That is not archiving. Abandonware sites do some archiving. Uploading things to a site that does not allow this kind of thing is not archiving, it is outright stupid and will result in account termination sooner or later.

And yes I have seen several of those types. Some even sell those games. Some were just scammers. Some probably kids that do not understand what they are doing.

And the reaction would be the same as with all software piracy.

What if the game in question was removed by the creator? Does this change your answer to the previous question?

Should I shrug any harder? ;-) 

On the parts of the internet where you can't prevent it, the reason for the dissapearance changes not really anything. Same for the parts of the net, where there are things like a tos that forbids it.

What might have influence about my opinion is, if the game in question was a paid game to begin with. But you still could not upload it to places like Itch. 

In your opinion, is there any situation in which it is morally acceptable to re-upload a game you do not own?

On Itch? No. It just creates additional work for staff when they delete it and maybe your account for tos violoation.

On the darker parts of the web, the newer generation of developers often embrace the distribution channel and upload it themselves at places that might be considered archives. Or they use the pay what you want feature on Itch.

So, morally, it get's okay-ish if there is no harm done to the developer. And removing logos and credits would be such a harm.

What preventative measures can developers take to prevent their games from being re-uploaded by a third party?

None. It can't be prevented. On sites like itch, something can be done after the fact. But any non-online mandatory account login game (and some of those too) can be "archived" by anyone bothering to do so.

If you still make your video, I suggest you have a look at the situation of No One Lives Forever. I would love to buy that game digital. But. I. Can. Not.

So long as it doesn't interfere with me making money from my games, I want them to be distributed as widely as possible, which means being uploaded on as many archive sites as possible.  I've already converted several of my paid games into free games so that they can reach a wider audience, and I hope to do this to all of my paid games before I die.

I'd be happy if someone re-uploaded my game, maybe a bit annoyed if they didn't ask, but it's nice to know SOMEONE cared enough about my work.

I'd say it's morally acceptable when the author gives permission to upload, or doesn't know HOW to upload, so the person just uploads on their behalf.

Well, game creation is a form of art,so I yeah, the preservation is certainly a good thing to take in mind, and I like the way hechelion made the parallels with people like Mozart. Now in my case, I guess some games of mine are set up with a license that even permits you to do so as long as I am credited as the original creator.

Still I am wondering if itch.io is the right platform for this practice (even if the games' licenses allow it). 

I think tying the word "preserve" to itch games is very weird, I mean there's not much to "preserve" really. People also use that as an excuse for pirating games, using "I'm just archiving it" would open up way too many loopholes in copyright systems. Anyone thinking the idea of just archiving random games is a idea should consider what their own reaction would be to someone taking their product and giving it away for free where you never got any money for it. That's literal piracy, I mean I've already thought about making virus-filled versions of my commercial games and putting them on piracy sites or these "archive" sites for free just to discourage said behavior. And I might still go through with that if people really think this idea is an overall good idea. Also artists that are long dead and gone aren't losing anything from their work being preserved, in fact most people with "preserved" items weren't making money on them anyway. There's also limits on copyright anyway, if someone doesn't keep using a copyright it becomes public domain, so if the original owner doesn't keep "preserving" it then people will get to "preserve" it themselves anyway. Which that's kinda the whole idea around owning the rights to something, just get the rights for it. If you want to "preserve" something the laziest and stupidest thing you can do is uploading it somewhere without asking. At that point you're seeking out legal trouble. 

That includes game disks that most people sell at yard sales

It does not. "resell" is not a clear wording, since it can mean two different things with software and licenses.

You cannot buy a software and sell copies of it. But you can sell your copy as an used item. And depending on your jurisdiction you also can sell your license, even if the license tells otherwise. There is a reason why big software companies want to call it software license and not treat it like a physical item. They sneak in things in those eula "contracts" to give them "rights", like selling your data, be not responsible and other dubious or illegal things, like forbidding you to give your license to someone else. The parody Southpark did about the Apple license covers the spirit of that.

And they sometimes change the license after the fact. I saw it happen to a game. They changed the license to allow them to collect and sell my data. Now I cannot properly access the game I bought 5 years ago, since I of course do not agree. The "benefits" of drm.

I want to play a game, not sign a contract to do so. I was never asked to agree to an eula on a game on Itch. Things like not buying the right to redistribute when buying a game are regular law, there is no eula needed for that.

and the user just uploads it for free. That's literally pirating

And Itch will remove it. But it needs you to report it. (Insert meme about that fire fighter bear). Might take them a while though.

I think if they want to preserve a game that's fine...
but this is not the place to do it, they went to the wrong website.