itch.io

Не прошло и трех лет

I apologize, can I...? Just a little bit. Screenshots? They say it helps you understand the game better.

Русский язык решили совсем убрать?

Что не так с ссылкой на русский перевод? 

Ничего не найдено

В ссылке опечатка, либо владелец удалил файлы или закрыл к ним доступ.

So that's it. Well, then there's nothing to be done. If the graphics in the game were designed any differently, I would have bought this game on Steam.

Are you not planning on releasing this game on Steam? I would buy

Your demo version crashes on the second boss. The intro is too long, I'm tired of starting the game for the third time

В общем, для тех у кого так же проблема с русским языком, делайте вот что.

Смените язык обратно на английский и поменяйте шрифт. В игре есть несколько шрифтов на выбор, и именно то что установлен по умолчанию не поддерживает кирилицу.

Кстати лучше играть на английском или не играть вовсе. Перевод на русский отвратительный. Даже кнопки в настройках перевести не смогли правильно.

Смешно. Ха-ха

Раз уж в игре "есть" русский язык, напишу комментарий на русском. Где текст? Почему при выборе русского языке в настройках и диалогах отображаются только точки и запятые? Добавили русский язык а шрифт забыли?

Can I ask you a question?

Are you not planning to release the game on Steam? I'd rather give the same 15 dollars to Steam where all my main game store is than here. And if you add Steam achievements to the game, that's great.

What do you say about the release on Steam?

And what was it you were telling me about the word "spatial"? I go to your wiki, and why isn't there a single word for "spatial"? But the word "space" is there all the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-dimensional_space

You have fundamental misconceptions. What you talk about is not reality. It is not physics. Not even mathematics.

Of course, of course, of course. It's not physics or math. It's just geometry. Are you really that stupid?

The term itself does not give this meaning.

And after saying that, you take offense when I call you stupid? You're stupid! Can the term three dimensions mean something other than three dimensions? Only a stupid person would write such nonsense. And you fit the definition of such a stupid person.

The term does not even say anything about time or perspective.

What's time got to do with it? Space time is already four dimensions. We're talking about three. Also, what does perspective have to do with it? Perspective has been around since long before the advent of electronic computers. But we don't call it 3D.

So tell me, where does it say, that 3d is only for games that have real time graphics that is rendered in 3d?

The tag itself says it DUMB YOU BARAN! THREE DIMENSIONS! Where do you see three dimensions in the picture? NOWHERE! If it's a rendered picture, then say "3D RENDER" but not "3D GAME"!

Just click the russian wiki for that term and there click on other language.

And what do I see? Outer space (or simply space)

So космос is space. And пространство is space. And пробел is space. And космическое пространство is space. That's great!

Oh, and the 2.5D tag was mentioned by you. https://store.steampowered.com/search/?tags=4975 This is 2.5D in English Steam.

I didn't write a word about English Steam.

And here's another thing, clown. You're the one who wrote that 3D also means stereoscopic games that need to be played with glasses. For such games in Steam there is also a tag - "3D Vision". So do not confuse stereoscopic games and three-dimensional games.

You also said that in Stim the tag 3D marks games without three-dimensional graphics. You know what's funny? It's the players themselves who put those tags. If a lot of players put a new tag to a game, this tag will be assigned to that game. And nobody in Steam moderates it. And vice versa, if a game receives a lot of complaints about a tag, it will be removed.

So it's illiterate players like you who add a tag to 3D games without 3D. If I find a few thousand accounts who will raid the Steam store together with me and put a new 3DCG tag on some games, this tag will be fixed in the Steam store.

Especially your refusal to accept that there are other opinions.

Opinions at odds with reality? Yes, I refuse to accept that.

 You can cite all you want in russian. It is English that I am talking about.

What the fuck do you mean the site you're daring me to use is Russian? That blue text on the Russian site says. Are you so stupid you don't understand? And since the site is Russian, I'm quoting Russian for you to understand. But to no avail.

If you gonna put 3d near space and say one is a word to describe the other and the context is games, you will get laughed at

Of course of course, three dimensions of space is ridiculous.

Or how do you call the big long key on your keyboard that makes the empty thing between letters?

"Пробел"

Oh I didn't want to bring this up but you made me. Why does one word in English have only different ones? Here I have shown five different Russian words that are equally translated into English. THE SAME, KARL! And there's a funny word combination - "космическое пространство". How does it translate into English? "Space space"? Funny language.

It is words and they mean what people use them for. Your disbelief will neither change this, nor the fact that all this is opinion and not some dictionary defintion. Even dictionaries only write up how people use words. If meanings change or words get additional meaning, they update their definition. Yet somehow you want to apply more strict rules to mere game tagging.

What's the point of your words if you don't know what they mean? You still can't give me a definition of what 3D and 3DCG are. And why did you even bring 2.5D into it if it was never mentioned at all?

By the way clown, since you like your favorite steem so much, here's a tag from steem that you probably didn't know about. "Псевдотрёхмерность" (Pseudo three-dimensionality).

https://store.steampowered.com/search/?tags=4975

I guess this could be considered some sort of analog to the 3DCG tag

Space

Now, asshole, look up how "space" translates.

Really?

Really. Here's an article for you, see the word "пространвство" in here?

Three-dimensional space, geometry paper. What were you telling me?

spatial (пространственный)

I can't even find an example with the word "spatial" in it. Except "пространственный тоннель." And that translates to "space tunnel."

"Пространственные измерения: классические физические теории описывают трёхмерные физические измерения."

I disagree.

I don't care if you disagree. When the character on the screen is spritely, it's noticeable. When it's three dimensional, it's just as noticeable. You can tell the difference between a sprite character and a drawn character. And not just in games. In animation there are moments of mixing drawn characters and modeled on the computer in 3d. You can see the difference especially in movement. Even in manga you can see the difference between a drawn character and a modeled one.

Here are some examples of modeled manga

And these are examples of drawn manga

Is there a difference?

Oh, and it even is a suggested tag (without description no less) https://itch.io/games/tag-3d-platformer

And moreover, a game with the tags "3d" and "platformer" is not the same as a game with one tag "3d platformer". Platformer means that the game is in the platformer genre. 3d means that the game is three dimensional. And 3d platformer means it's a 3D platformer. There's a big difference. Take Mario, for example. Super Mario Odyssey is a 3D platformer with a third-person view. It can be tagged with the single tag "3d platformer". At the same time, in one of the parts of Mario (I don't remember exactly which one) there were elements on the level in which the game became two-dimensional, that is, the graphics as before was three-dimensional, but Mario could only move left and right, as in classic games on 8-bit console. But that was a separate element on the level, in general, the whole game is three-dimensional. But if there was a game with three-dimensional graphics but two-dimensional gameplay, it could be labeled with two tags "3d" and "platformer", but the tag "3d platformer" here is no longer suitable.

Another example is the game Nier Automata. It's three-dimensional. But in some cases the camera is placed on top or on the side of the character, turning the gameplay into 2D. But the game is still three-dimensional.

Another example. Crash Bandicoot. Is it a platformer, with three dimensions? Or a 3D platformer?

And for digital things you do can put them into both boxes at once.

Then it would no longer be called a category. It's something else.

or you can have a fight with your friend what label to put on which box

That's true. But the difference is that in this example, there are no established rules about what labels to put on a box of dishes when moving to a new apartment. There's no such thing. Large moving companies may have their own rules about how boxes should be labeled, and they follow them. But me and my friend don't have any rules yet.

And in the case of games, there are already rules that are followed on some sites. And even a person who is not familiar with these rules can easily guess what it is about by looking at the name of the label or its description. That's how people learn new words. From the pronunciation (spelling) and the context in which they see the word for the first time.

3d without context means three dimensions. 3d manga and 3d video means style. The style of "drawing" even though it's not actually drawn. A 3d game originally appeared specifically as a three dimensional game. Because before this term games were two-dimensional or textual (without graphics). And here relatively recently began to appear 3DCG games and people are confused. They are already used to calling such pictures 3d. But the game is two-dimensional with 3D pictures. So the game is 3d? But there are two dimensions?

Confusion. We should call this kind of game 3DCG.

And what once was 3d is now split into third-person, first-person, walking-simulator and the old word 3d is more and more used by things that only feature stuff that is 3d.

Who decided that? YOU? You personally decided that word is no longer in use? Who are you to personally decide that? I use this word, my environment, my acquaintances use this word and on the Internet it is actively used on the sites I use. What makes you think it's not used anymore? On the contrary, what you wrote, first person, third person and even more so walking simulator. I very rarely encounter such definitions. I never say in a conversation with a friend, "I bought a cool first person shooter yesterday and played it all night". It doesn't happen. I either just say "shooter" or the name of the game. A shooter already implies that it's first-person. Otherwise I specify whether it's a shoulder view shooter or an overhead view shooter. And this is the first time I've heard of walking simulators. I don't know what that is. There are games where it's not really important to specify whether there is 3d or not. If it's a strategy game, I don't care if it's sprite graphics or three-dimensional. As long as it is good. In platformers or metroid games it doesn't really matter if it's three dimensional or two. In souls games it doesn't matter, in horror games it doesn't matter, in roguelikes it doesn't matter either. In quests it doesn't matter all the more. In general in AAA games it doesn't matter, as a rule they are all three dimensional. But in some indie games it is very important to have three-dimensional graphics.

So go to Steam and look up the tags. You will see the vote of the users, what are the most important tags for the game. If it is on Steam.

You're a total asshole. I've told you more than once. Don't use stim as an example. It's for big games. Not for indies. 3DCG games are unpopular there. Are you so dumb you can't understand a word? I've told you more than once to stop writing about Steam!

And you can shove the developers' opinions up your ass. They can add the tag 3d to their games where there is no three-dimensionality to attract attention. Why? Because the tag is popular and in demand. It's a stone in your favor that no one uses the tag. On paid sites like Nutaku games are paid, and the site itself is important to sell as many games as possible, so you can lie about the three-dimensionality of the game. 

Change it yourself. I am serious.

I did it a long time ago. On the first day of our dialog, I offered my description of the 3DCG, 3D game, and 3D tags. I did that a long time ago. And where is the result? There is no result. Apparently game developers don't want to change anything. They are responsible for the tags, not the site administration.

Not since every smartphone can compute 3d.

Why did you write that? What's the point? If every smartphone can handle 3d, then the tag is unnecessary? I don't understand you. 

Look at the visual novel plus 3d combination on Steam.

Here we go again. Fuck you and your stim. I don't need no fucking steam. We're not talking about steam right now. Why the fuck do you keep referring to steaming?

https://itch.io/games/genre-visual-novel/tag-3d

I guess I was right, you are dumb.

Did you look at the search results on that link yourself? 90% of the games there are 3DCG. And I don't need that! I only want 3D games. I've been talking to you for a week and you still don't get it?

Why is there no description for the 3d platformer tag?

You're really really dumb. I don't care about that tag. Are you capable of answering my question or not? You asshole!

"space" is a word with many meanings. In the context of games, it is about outer space. Usually science fiction. Often with space ships.

Are you a complete idiot? It says 3D and at the bottom it says space and a link to the article "3D computer game". What the fuck is space? Three-dimensional space. Where the fuck is space? There's not a single space game on that site.

(spatial)? Well, you're an idiot. You should at least read in which cases this word is used and what it means.

Propositions with the word "spatial"

• In such a context, the transfer of the capital, being an important component of the change of the spatial structure, can become a noticeable factor and a prerequisite for the change of political principles.

Vadim Rossman, Capitals. Their diversity, patterns of development and relocation, 2013

• Thus, the space of autonomy is a new spatial form of networked social movements.

Manuel Castells, The Power of Communication, 2013

• Theoretical problems of organizing the spatial movement of economic flows in the real conditions of modern economic environment constitute the main content of general logistic knowledge.

И. D. Afanasenko, Economic Logistics. Textbook for universities, 2013

Quotations from Russian classics with the word "spatial"

• Being became sick: everything became temporal, i.e., disappearing and arising, dying and being born; everything became spatial, i.e., limited and alienated in its parts, close and distant; it became material, i.e., heavy, subject to necessity; everything became limited and relative, subject to the laws of logic.

Berdyaev N. A., Philosophy of Freedom, 1911

• The spiritual and cultural decentralization of Russia, which is absolutely inevitable for our national health, cannot be understood as a purely external spatial movement from the metropolitan centers to the backwoods provinces.

Berdyaev N. A., The Fate of Russia, 1917

• So, in order to conceive of human action subject to one law of necessity, without freedom, we must allow for the knowledge of an infinite number of spatial conditions, an infinitely great period of time, and an infinite series of causes.

Tolstoy L. N., War and Peace. Volume Four, 1873

Combination of the word "spatial"

• spatial pocket
• spatial relations
• spatial orientation
• spatial scanner screen
• spatial corridor arch

No one uses the word spatial in the context of number of dimensions. Even in your own language there is the phrase "three dimensions of space". Or "space-time".

The usual abreviation is three-dimensional and not space. And even that gets shortened to 3d.

And the full text, three dimensions of space. If the tag is called 3D, how to specify in one word that it is about three dimensions? Right, add the word "Пространство".

The issue is, that tagging a game "3d" is not the same as saying it is a three dimensional game.

And after saying that, you're lying to me that you understand the meaning of the 3D tag? Tag three is, you stupid idiot, THREE dimensions. If there are no THREE DIMENSIONS in the game, it's not 3D!

If I talk to you and say, let's play this new 3d game, the meaning is clear. But no one is talking to you, when you just read a bunch of tags that are attached to a game.

I run the tags in my head reading them myself. Example tags.

[2019, SLG, 3D, Constructor, ADV, School, Tiny tits, Big tits, Anal, Oral, Group, Uniform].

I'm reading this to myself and I'm insightful. Yep, the game of 2019. A simulation game (SLG means simulator). The game is three dimensional (there's a 3D tag in there). You can construct something in the game (usually meaning character constructor). The game is about school. And so on. I read each tag and realize what exactly is in this game.

If I see turn-based in addition to 3d, and no third-person, first-person or fps, or walking-simulator, I will not assume that it is a "3d game". At least not the game play. There are platformer 2d games that have the character model rendered in 3d. Would they qualify for "3d game". I would say: no. But they totally qualify to be tagged with 3d.

No, that's 3D, too. A platformer in which the environment and character are flat pictures (sprites), completely 2D. A game where the character or the background (or all together) is a three-dimensional model is a three-dimensional game.

There are visual novels where both the background and the character in the background are pictures. And there are rare games where the background is a picture, and the character is a three-dimensional model. And well animated model. And this is a three-dimensional game.

You won't argue that Resident Evil 1996 is a three-dimensional game, will you?

Are you having trouble with a 3d platformer because there are 3D models but you can't rotate the camera? And what then to speak about visual novels there are only pictures, animations and videos. There are no three-dimensional models at all. Can such games be called three-dimensional?

About the categories. Whatever word you use in your language seems to have not the exact same meaning in English.

The categories are best told by a live example. You have a real physical object. I don't know, a plate, for example. You have to put it into some category (put it in a drawer when you move to another apartment). Where do you put the plate? Probably in a drawer labeled "kitchen" or "utensils." That's it, you've already put the plate in that category, you only have one plate, you can't put one item in two different categories.

And now the tag (or label, they're synonyms). You can put the plate in any box you want, and put stickers on the box - plates, utensils, kitchen, fragile, do not drop, and so on. There are many tags, one category.

I already did, but here again: it means that the chooser of the tag was of the opinion that the tag was appropriate. Nothing more, nothing less.

So the tag by itself doesn't mean anything? Authors add tags to themselves not because tags have a definition, but because.... I don't know, the letters in the tag are pretty? 3D looks like a smiley face with glasses. Or because this "smiley face" is often used, so I'll add it for myself.

Is that the principle behind tags? Add a tag because you like it, not because it has a definition?

For 3d I expect the game having to do something with 3d.

You're an idiot. You've proven it again. Where in that tag does it say this game has to be for adults? It doesn't follow from the tag itself. The tag just means that the game is entirely based on rendered images. That's it. The game can be completely childish if the author wants it to be. The problem is that games with such graphics are usually made with adult or erotic content by people who can't draw. It's their choice to create graphics like that. But it doesn't mean that they are obliged to create adult games if they chose this type of graphics creation.

I argued early in this thread, that I believe the 3d tag to be superflous. ...If the main aspect of the game is, that it is a 3d game, third-person or first-person or fps or walking-simulator are better tags.

In some cases, it's important to know if the game is 2D or 3D. The fact that it is three-dimensional is its main feature. There are first-person, second-person and third-person games. But these tags are not suitable for all three-dimensional games. How can I explain this to you. Let's go back to adult games. There's a game called Koikatsu. You know it? In this game, the only guy is transferred to an all-girls school. It's a three-dimensional game. Is it first-person or third-person? Just to remind you, during the sex scenes, the camera is free to move as you please.

Let's take another game as an example. So-called sex simulators. There should obviously be different poses, different actions of the player and different responses to these actions. How to build such a game? You can make a completely two-dimensional game, like the old flash games. But that's boring. You can use "modern" Live2D animation. But in inexperienced hands it looks crooked. Or make a three-dimensional game. Of course for the player is likely to be better to play a three-dimensional game.

Next. Visual novels. They tend to be two-dimensional with flat pictures. But I've seen a few fully three-dimensional visual novels. Or, there are regular visual novels but with fully three-dimensional sex scenes where you can randomly rotate the camera. And this feature could be a major feature of the game.

There are cases where the presence or absence of three-dimensionality is a key feature of the game. Another example. A two-dimensional game was released, and then the developer made a new version of the game (the second part) and put the game fully on three-dimensional rails. This is the key feature of the new game compared to the last part.

Therefore, it is important to specify the three-dimensionality of the game is not appropriate other tag implies three-dimensionality

On the site tags first-person and third-person, not only three-dimensional games are marked.

This is for the popular game Cyberpunk. That is a 3d game. But no 3d tag.

There's another important tag in there. FPS. Shooter, first-person. Are there any 2D first-person shooters?

And you're also missing one very important detail. Cyberpunk is a huge, high-budget game that's been advertised on every radio. Only a man living in a cave would be ignorant of it.  Everyone knows it's three-dimensional. Moreover, on the game's page there are videos where you can see that the game is three-dimensional. 

The only thing the description does, it spells out what 3d stands for. Three dimensions.

Is there a manga on itch? 0_0

And I repeat my question, are you sure you understand the meaning of "three dimensions"? For manga, you should use the 3D style tag

If the tag description doesn't fit, then why won't they change it?

What would be a 3d comic for you?

This is a comic that is drawn (rendered) in 3D style.

In comics and videos 3D means only the way the graphics are created. It would be more preferable to use the 3DCG tag, but 3D is also suitable because there is no alternative. But in games there is a difference between 3D or 3DCG

From my experience, for this type of game, fps is the most common term, even if no shooting occurs. In recent years, walking-simulator seems to be the word for fps without shooting.

Don't bring the game's FPS into this. Like their walking simulator. What genre is that anyway? And if the game is third-person and there is no walking, but the game is three-dimensional? Can't you understand that? There's no tag that can perfectly replace the 3D tag.

Also, in my experience FPS games are not just first person shooters. They're dynamic, very fast first-person shooters. Shooters are demanding on the player's reaction time. FPS also means frames per second for a reason.

And that reason is, that the 3d tag is often useless, as you also have found out.

That's exactly why I created this thread! The 3d tag is useless! That's what I want to get through to the administration to fix it in future projects. And you're saying to me, "Get over it, you're not getting anywhere." That's fucking great.

But would most devs do that too? And would they do that retroactively?

In hindsight, they are unlikely to fix the tags. But new games might be tagged with the correct tag. And what the hell did you write below?

Просто посмотрите на разработчиков, использующих его, ни один из них не использовал его для игры для взрослых.

On the contrary. Only adult game developers use it. Because in adult game circles, these graphics are the most commonly used. Now pay attention to the question, which you will ignore as usual, find me some 3DCG games that are not adult games. Are there any on the site? There certainly could be, but I've never seen one. And if there are no such games, then developers of children's games have nothing to fear. Even if there are such games, I don't mind if a few 3DCG children's games are tagged 3D.

As was explained to you, that is not a thing the administration controls. Nor were you talking to administration here. This is community. That mod is not itch staff. He does forum moderation. And itch chose not to control it, it is their tagging system and they decided to give the power of tagging to the developers that publish the games. And the developers will  see this, if they look for it on the faq:

Our song is good start over.

So the developers don't control the tags. Then, asshole, why the fuck isn't there a 3DCG tag on this page?

(Посмотреть все метки)

Why doesn't the 3DCG tag have a description?

Is it the game developers who didn't want to add the 3DCG tag to the list of all tags? Is it the game developers who didn't want to add a description to the 3DCG tag? Is it all game developers don't want to do? And the site administration has nothing to do with it?

What's your problem with the word space? "three-dimensional space." You don't know what that is? There's blue text under the tags that links to the following pages.

A three-dimensional computer game (3D) is a game with a visual space made entirely of three-dimensional objects. The character is in three-dimensional space and in some games has complete freedom of movement.

Is there any other definition of a three-dimensional game in English?

Three-dimensional graphics - a section of computer graphics, devoted to methods of creating images or videos by modeling objects in three dimensions.

3D modeling is the process of creating a three-dimensional model of an object. The task of 3D-modeling is to develop a visual volumetric image of the desired object. The model can correspond to objects from the real world (cars, buildings, hurricane, asteroid) or be completely abstract (projection of a four-dimensional fractal).

Isn't that translation enough for you? Are you gonna say it sounds funny in English again?

Next. What is a category? In the context of games, it is a division of games based on some criteria. Usually they are divided based on the main genre. The category is shooters. In this category, only games in which the shooter mechanics are basic are placed. This does not include games with shooter elements. The category is unique and one title cannot be in two categories at once.

But this does not apply to tags. There can be as many tags as you want for one title. 

I do know what 3dcg and 3d means.

Are you sure? If you knew, we wouldn't be having all this shit.

Tell me what the 3D and 3DCG tags mean in games. In games. Don't bring in movies and stuff.

It is you who does not understand what the grouping by the word "3d" means on Steam or Itch.

I understand exactly what the 3D tag on itch means. Because I can read. 

Like when your dimensions come in three? Try out some of these top 3d games on itch.io.

What are the keywords? "dimensions come in three" and "3d games." Do I have to explain to you again what three dimensions and a 3d game are?

Sites that use "космос" to talk about 3d games, I want to point out.

Where did you get the word "космос" from? "космос" is only one of four translations of the word "space".

3d as a grouping word to attach to a game means only one thing: the people attaching the word had the opinion that the word was relevant.

But that doesn't mean people aren't wrong to add that tag to their game.

I'm proving it to you once again. Let's say I'm a developer. I made a game in which there are no three dimensions, but there are pictures in three-dimensional style. What tag should I put? I go to the website and look at the list of tags. I see the 3D tag and I add it. It's the closest tag that I can find that works for me.

If there was a 3DCG tag next to the 3D tag, I would put the second one. But it's not there. People take the easy way out. If there is no tag, but they take the time to google, look for other tags, add new ones. They work with tags that are already there. That's what most people do. That said, unofficially, there is still a 3DCG tag on the site. Those who used it are not as lazy as others. They added the appropriate tag even though the site itself did not offer it to them. Respect to such people.

You say that this tag is only used for adult games. Why is that? Yes because such graphics, such a way of creating graphics for games, are used mainly by creators of adult content. Usually creators of visual novels or rpg maker games. And there are a VERY large number of such games.

I'm complaining because the administration doesn't understand what I'm trying to convey. I'm not asking for anything outrageous. Just add a new tag. Is that so hard?

Understandable wishes, but it it is arrogant to think all those devs and a site with near 900k games are wrong in their tagging and you know a better way.

That's why I think you're stupid. A stupid autist who doesn’t understand what three dimensions are!

You assume that the 3dcg tag is used to prevent misleading, because the games could be confused by their screenshots for actual third or first person games in a 3d engine like Unreal.

Maybe stop lying already? I'm not guessing, I KNOW THIS FOR SURE. I talked with the administration of some sites; other sites have descriptions of the tags. You idiot, before you write your nonsense, bitch, suggest an alternative meaning for the 3DCG tag. Facts bitch. Where are the proofs? Prove that the 3DCG tag means something else. Can you? Freak!

Oh and Steam does have a 3d tag. It was mentioned in this very thread.

PROVE. Am I the only one trying to back up my words with some kind of evidence? You just write tons of text, don’t support them with anything, and think that’s enough?

I have already written that it is inappropriate to compare Steam with big-budget games and with itch.

https://store.steampowered.com/search/?tags=4191https://store.steampowered.com/search/?tags=4191

Great, now look on Steam for visual novels that could be tagged as 3DCG. Find at least 10 such games on Steam. Can you? These are niche games that are not suitable for such a large platform as Steam. And if there are few such games, then no one on Steam bothers to create a tag for them. On Steam, they don’t even worry too much about translating tags. They translated the visual novel as a visual short story. Although novel and short story have different terms.

God, how stupid you are. When I communicate with you, I feel like I’m being infected by your stupidity. What did you write at the end of the message?

Do you even understand what a category is and what a tag is? The game's category is clear. If a game is in one category, it cannot be in another category. Not so with tags. A game can have multiple tags. A game can even have both 3D and 3DCG tags at the same time. What do categories have to do with it? Where did you get this nonsense from? I have not used any site that uses categories. Why are you lying again? I've told you many times, 3D games are three-dimensional games. Because motherfucking 3D means three dimensions. On sites where there are both tags, I will enter a search query of this type “3D -3DCG”, and get the result in the form of a list of 3D games. I already told you the fool, there are very few games there. For comparison, look at how many games with itch are presented on steam. A lot of?

When will you idiot finally understand what 3DCG is and how it differs from 3D?

Stuff in the quality of those pixar animation movies are also called 3dcg. Search the internet and not your malware spreading sites, if you do not believe.

Are you autistic? No really, are you really that stupid? What the fuck are we talking about here? BITCH ABOUT GAMES. ABOUT GAMES! Why the hell are you dragging movies into this? We're talking about games. AND IN GAMES, 3DCG is a well-established term. Download any visual novel, go to the game folder and you will definitely find the CG folder in which the game backgrounds are located. CG - computer graphics. In almost all games, these graphics (background pictures) are created using a computer, in Photoshop, for example, or something else. 3DCG means the same thing, but the picture was not drawn, but rendered from three-dimensional models.

Why do I know this and you don’t? Why do I understand what games with 3DCG are, but you just can’t understand it?

But let's pretend that I'm just as autistic as you, and I don't see the difference between games and movies. Games don’t only contain pictures, games also have animated pictures and videos with sound. And there are animations and videos that can be built on the game engine, or rendered in advance. And if they are rendered in advance, then this is also 3DCG. Yes, just like in the movies. But we're not talking about films!

Citing sites that use the tag proves what exactly? That the term is used as a tag. It does prove nothing else. It does not prove that they started using it. It does not prove that they use it to avoid misleading. It does not even prove what they actually use it for or what it means on their respective sites.

And now you're lying again. You said that this term is not used as I think? Here I have given you examples when this term is USED as I think. This is how games that use pre-rendered images are marked. Why do they do this? Because a screenshot of such a game, due to the 3D style, can be misleading. It looks like a still frame of a 3D game, but in reality it is a simple game with flat images. There are rare three-dimensional games that have exactly the same graphics, but are drawn in real time by the power of your PC. And not pre-rendered like in visual novels. And so as not to confuse these two types of “3D” games, they use the 3DCG tag.

Or maybe you’ll say that this tag is used differently and I’m mistaken? Okay, what do you think the 3DCG tag means if not what I described?

And of course 3dcg as well. And in this nieche it means, the pics are computer generated, in contrast of hand drawn. Some might even use 3dcg in contrast to 2dcg.

Are you really that stupid or are you pretending to be? ALL pictures were created on a computer. Exceptions are photographs, or paintings painted with paints on canvas and then scanned with a scanner. Only such pictures were NOT created on a computer.

Everything else is created ON THE COMPUTER. There is Photoshop, there are graphic tablets, there are programs for “drawing” pictures with a mouse on a computer, there are pictures generated by an artificial intelligence, all this is created on a computer. This is all CG. 3DCG are also pictures created on a computer, but not drawn, but rendered based on a 3D scene. To draw a picture on a computer, you need to be able to draw pictures on a computer. To create a 3DCG picture, you just need to download some kind of 3D editor, download some kind of 3D character model, download some kind of 3D room scene, then place the character model inside the room model, give it the desired pose, emotion, and set the virtual camera at the right angle. READY. You have a pre-rendered image. At the same time, I didn’t know how to draw and still can’t.

Since Steam does have adult games, I do not know, why they do not have the 3dcg tag. Maybe because it typically is not used for non-adult games.

Why are you comparing itch with Steam? Steam is primarily a store for large games, and visual novels have appeared there relatively recently. It was originally a high-budget games store.

Next, why is there no 3DCG tag there? Yes, because there is no 3D tag? And therefore there is no confusion where there are three dimensions and where there are not. Do you understand no? On sites where there is a 3D tag, pre-rendered pictures and videos, and 3D games are marked with it. But since 2D games with 3DCG pre-rendered images became popular, many sites have introduced the 3DCG tag to differentiate these games from 3D games.

Where there was no 3D tag, the 3DCG tag is also not needed

Let's look at an actually respectable adult game site (and not your malware spreaders and not very legit looking sites). Nutaku. Well, you will not like this. They use the tag 3d for visual novels that have 3dcg images.

There are a total of 178 games with the 3D tag on this site. And most of them are DLC for the game Custom Order Maid 3D 2, which is truly 3D. There are 43 titles in total, which are considered to be one game with DLS. 135 games remain. And on itch there are only 88,807 games with the 3D tag. Do you think it's worth comparing these two sites? It is not profitable for them to divide games into more tags since there are few games themselves.

The biggest fish in the pond, Steam, a specialiced legit adult game site and indie game platform itch that also has adult games. On all those platforms, the tags are used different from the way you want them to.

With these words you showed how ignorant you are of this topic. Or you are aware and deliberately lying. “a specialized legit adult game site”, do you understand what nonsense I wrote? Their Steam regularly removes "adult" games. I have 5 games on my account that have been removed from the store and cannot be purchased. And even more games that I wanted to buy but didn’t have time, they were deleted. Lots of "adult" games on Steam with cut out "adult" content. The same koikatsu you mentioned. A patch for the return of adult content must be searched on the Internet or purchased separately, and often it is not even translated into English.

So there’s no need to talk bullshit about the adult games store here.

Это не новый термин, и он не используется так, как вы думаете. Это также не имеет значения скриншотов.

And again lies

• https://www.pasgames.com/tag/3dcg
• https://mrvishalblogging.com/game/tag/3dcg
• https://r34games.com/en/tag/3dcg
• https://www.moddb.com/tags/3dcg
• https://eng.dldshare.net/archives/category/type/3dcg
• https://gig-life.ru/tags/3dcg/

Should I continue to list sites that have such tags?

Also, how can you be on the internet and not notice that Twitter changed its name to X?

Or maybe you shouldn’t think that the whole world revolves around you and your social networks? First of all, your Twitter is not popular in all countries. Secondly, in some it is even prohibited. Who would use a garbage dump in which even personal messages are paid?

All those games have a tag that is not in the suggested list and that has no description.

Now answer a simple question. How would I have known about the existence of this tag if you had not told me about it? It's not in the list of tags.

Context is important.

That's right, context is important. How can games be classified? According to the genre, but 2D is not a genre. Based on the location of the camera, this is also not suitable. Technologies of graphic image. This is what you need.

Classification according to graphic image technology:

• Lack of graphics (text games, pseudo-graphics)
• 2D graphics (vector, raster)
• 3D graphics
• 3D image (stereo glasses)
• Augmented reality (mobile devices with a video camera)
• Virtual reality (virtual reality helmet)

As you can see, everything falls into place here. When it comes to 3D, in the context of games. The first suitable definition is 3D games. Game with 3D graphics. Stereoscopic games came later and are less common.

So you're screwed again.

But neither you nor itch can change this.

And again a lie. itch can change everything. How? It is enough to remove the 3D tag from the list of tags and clear its description. On the contrary, add the tags “3D game” and “3DCG” to the list of tags and write a description for them. Then everything will fall into place. The 3D tag is ambiguous, and therefore it should not be supported. The tags “3D game” and “3DCG”, on the contrary, are very clear. This, of course, will not eliminate false tagging, but it will definitely benefit the site and users.

Tags are not words

What class are you in? Have you even finished school? Can you write me a definition of what a “word” is?

3d is related to visual novels using 3d rendered images. 

3d means three dimensions. Most visual novels don't have three dimensions. Flat sprites on flat backgrounds. If a character in a visual novel were a 3D model, or the character's background was 3D, then the 3D tag would be appropriate.

Q You're talking about a 3D style of images that still remain flat. With the development of various games with a built-in visual studio, there are too many “3D” crafts on renpai. People simply take screenshots in the studio of some game, insert these screenshots into their game and post them on the Internet as a “3D game”. Previously, this kind of crap didn’t exist, but now self-respecting sites have started tagging such games with the 3DCG tag so that beautiful screenshots wouldn’t mislead people

(1). They are selected by the devs and any tag can be selected, even one that is not in the list or does not exist yet. Yes. This is so. You can browse ANY tag and will not get a 404 error message.

With every message you seem dumber and dumber to me. How will the user understand that there is a tag on the site that is not in the list of site tags? HOW WILL HE KNOW? Don't you see the problem here? I see. If the tag is hidden, then what difference does it make whether it is there or not?

This is my first time visiting the site. And I want to find interesting games based on tags. What tags will I use? That's right, those tags that I see in the site interface. I repeat the question once again. How do I know that the site has tags if they are not in the list?

(3). I do not know and I do not care. But it does not look like an automated list. Probably a site admin curates the list from time to time. The tags on that list are sometimes called suggested tags.

THIS CAN'T BE HAPPEN (sarcasm). You said that itch cannot influence anything and everything is decided by game developers. And now it turns out that itch does decide something? So maybe my proposal to add tags to this list still makes some sense?

Tell itch to change the see all tags button, because it is misleading. It should read, see suggested tags or something like that. It made you think that "all tags" means that it will show exhaustivly all tags.

THIS CAN'T BE HAPPEN (sarcasm). It looks like I “heard” the first reasonable thought from you during our communication

That is how I found out, that the list is incomplete and you can write and guess any tag.

Well, I never looked at the description under the spoiler. What useful information is there? Game platform? I select it during the search, and I know for sure that I will only find PC games. Tags? I only look at them while searching. If I went to the game’s page, it means I’m already interested in it and the rest doesn’t matter.

But what I used was the “Similar Games” button. The site searches for games with similar tags, but only uses official tags. This is easy to check. Take the link - https://itch.io/games/tag-3dcg

This is a list of games that are EXACTLY tagged with the 3dcg tag. We open each game and look at similar games.

1. Related tags: Visual Novel Adult Erotic Ren'Py Romance
2. Related tags: Visual Novel Adult Erotic
3. Related tags: Visual Novel Adult Anime Male protagonist Parody Romance Visual Novel
4. Related tags: Visual Novel Adult Dating Sim Erotic Management Simulation Story Rich
5. Related tags: Adventure Adult Parody
6. Related tags: Role Playing Adult Erotic Fantasy Gay Monsters Point & Click Role Playing Sandbox Singleplayer
7. Related tags: Visual Novel Adult Adventure Furry Sandbox Unity
8. Related tags: Visual Novel Anime Cute Fantasy Parody Ren'Py Visual Novel
9. Related tags: Visual Novel Adult Male protagonist Multiple Endings Visual Novel
10. Related tags: Visual Novel Adult Erotic Male protagonist Ren'Py Story Rich
11. Related tags: Visual Novel Adult Erotic Female Protagonist Male protagonist Ren'Py Visual Novel
12. Related tags: Visual Novel Adult
13. Related tags: Visual Novel Adult Adventure Unity
14. Related tags: Visual Novel 3D Adult Erotic Fantasy Visual Novel
15. Related tags: Puzzle Erotic Lesbian Puzzle
16. Related tags: Visual Novel Adult Male protagonist
17. Related tags: Visual Novel Adventure Fantasy Male protagonist Visual Novel
18. Related tags: Visual Novel Adult Male protagonist Ren'Py Romance Story Rich

I looked at 18 games, and none of them offered me games with the 3DCG tag. If this tag is added officially, the situation will change

***

And I didn’t understand what you wrote next.

I bought myself a video card. Not very powerful, but before I didn’t have a video card at all (Ryzen with integrated graphics). And now I can play more demanding and non-optimized games. Large AAA 3D games are usually more optimized than Unity games. And now, having a normal video card, I want to play 3D games. But before that I need to find them, but I can’t. Due to the fact that under the 3D tag, everything is mixed up. If I use any other tag, I couldn't find what I need. I need a 3D tag or a 3D game tag

So go to X and complain that people invent tags all day, instead of using predefined ones.

What is X and why should I complain about this site there?

Just because anyone can create their own tag does not mean that anyone will use them. These tags are not in the list of tags, they do not have descriptions, and therefore they will not be used by ordinary site users. They just don't know that such tags exist.

Regarding the language. The site has been translated into my language. Maybe you should learn my language?

It merely says, it is 3d games. Which does not give you any new information. You alread are browsing for games and you already have selected 3d.

And you still teach me the language? What is 3D anyway? Literally three dimensions. Is there a third dimension in flat visual novels? Did you study geometry at school?

With an open tagging system, you do not consult any descriptions.

So words are not important? I can attach any tags to my game, the most popular tags, to attract attention, and no one really cares if I blatantly lie? Great "open" tagging system. Why then do we need tags at all if when I search for something specific I don’t get it? If I choose “first-person”, then there may well be “second-person” and “third-person” games, and do you think this is completely normal?

And as said many times here: tags are chosen by the devs.

Are you saying that tags are added by developers? You are blatantly lying! If this is the case, then why are these tags not in the tag list? I checked all the pages!

Нет тегов 3DCG или 3D-игр. Их нет ни на одной странице. А раз их не существует, значит, ими мало кто будет пользоваться. И пользователи, и разработчики. Пока тег не будет официально присвоен, он будет менее популярен.

You (as a publisher) can only select 10 tags for a project.

Did I write somewhere that I am a publisher? I am a user who is not satisfied with the current tagging system.

Okay, let's say I was a publisher. And what does this change? Do you want to say that if instead of the “3D” tag, there are two tags “3D game” and “3DCG”, will this somehow negatively affect publishers? Nothing like this. Now, regardless of the description of the 3D tag, publishers add it to themselves to attract attention. If instead of one tag there are two, publishers will set themselves one of the tags, the one that suits them best.

(3) That is a matter of opinion in most cases, including "3d".

What opinion are you talking about? On the website, the 3D tag has a specific description, which narrows all variations of this term to a more specific one. If the site didn’t have a description of the tags, it wouldn’t matter. But there is a description

(4) Feel free to click the link below the tag description that reads "Suggest updated description".

And what will this change? If I offer my description, will all game developers listen to the change and correct their tags? I doubt

(5) About what? People having different opinions than you about what constitutes correct usage of tag 3d?

Then answer a simple question. Why was the language invented? Speech. Words. Why is all this necessary if people are not able to understand each other because no one uses dictionaries and the same word has a different meaning for each person? Why do we use words at all if we cannot understand their meaning? Replace tags with pictures and nothing will change. Let's communicate like primitive people with cave paintings.

That’s why words are needed to exchange specific meanings. if I say "sea". So I mean the sea. A sea is a large body of salty water. There is a word and there is a specific meaning of this word. The same goes for tags. What does the "first person" tag mean? Does this tag have multiple different meanings? Does everyone understand it differently? Or does the tag have one meaning in the context of games? Likewise, the 3D tag should have one meaning so as not to confuse people, otherwise the tag is useless. We use tags to narrow down the search and not to confuse it.

But no one uses the second one.

Nobody uses it? And what's that? Enough mentions

Oh, and according to your logic, all the 170 games in that list would be unsuccessfull because of their usage of that tag.

What does this have to do with the “unsuccessfull” game and the use of one unsuccessful tag in it? If the game only had these unpopular tags and an unattractive name, then obviously the game itself would be unpopular. But these games also have other, more popular tags, tagged 16-bit (6,145 results), Platformer (128,458 results)

You need to actually read the answers. The method to do tag exclusion, is talked about in several threads.

Do you know what it's called on the Internet? This is called "sending in rough form". Instead of answering how to do something, you send me to look for how to do it. Why did you even come to this topic then? This is a universal answer to any question. A person comes to the forum, asks for something, and they answer him - go and look for it yourself. GREAT! This is the most useless and, moreover, offensive message. Or maybe the tag exclusion method is so complex that you don't understand it yourself? Then everything is clear. If you yourself are technically illiterate, then don’t try to teach others.

Show me specifically where someone helped me? In your language, does the word “help” have a different meaning? What does "help me" mean?

• Change the tag system, this has not been done
• Tell me how to search only for 3D games and nothing else, no one told me that
• Tell us how to exclude the “visual novels” tag from the search query “3D”, this was also not covered

So where is the “help” here? I was not given any help regarding the questions I asked. So what are you offended by? It’s me who needs to be offended because they don’t answer my questions and switch the conversation to another topic...

You're wrong. Torrent trackers have separate 3D and 3DCG tags. There I can search for the specific games I need by adding 3D to the search bar and excluding -3DCG. But I can’t do it here.

And it looks like you didn’t read me carefully either. I don't need games like X. I need 3D games. All 3D games on your site. Games in which there are three dimensions.

And that there are only 10 tags you can have

Well, let's count together

1. Singleplayer
2. 2D
3. Horror
4. Adult
5. Pixel Art
6. Erotic
7. Adventure
8. 3D
9. Short
10. Atmospheric
11. Visual Novel
12. Retro
13. Role Playing
14. Action
15. Fantasy
16. First-Person
17. Platformer
18. Cute
19. Puzzle
20. Simulation
21. Creepy
22. Unity
23. Romance
24. Interactive Fiction
25. Survival
26. Story Rich
27. Top-Down
28. Tabletop role-playing game
29. Shooter
30. Psychological Horror
31. Indie
32. Dark
33. LGBT
34. Eroge
35. Sci-fi
36. Arcade
37. Sprites
38. Casual
39. Anime
40. RPG Maker

Page 1 of 14

Already on the first page I see more than ten tags. And there are many pages with tags on the site. Where did you get the number 10 from?

There are even people tagging "game". Or "indie". Even "3d game" is used as a tag.

I found the indie tag in the list of tags. The rest are not there.

With this knowlege you can answer all your questions yourself. Also the question, why it is not done what you propose. And not doable.

I never received answers to my questions. Why is the 3D tag added to games that do not correspond to the description of this tag on the site and no one does anything about it? Why can't you remove this tag and add two others as I suggested?

What good does it do, if you use technical correct terms, but no one using the site would search for them?

There will be no benefit until these correct tags are fixed on the site. Let's say I'm a game developer, I add my game but I don't find a suitable tag in the list of site tags. What to do? Can I make my own? You are trying to convince me that I can. Fine. What's the point of this? The site does not offer this tag. There is only one game marked with this tag. Naturally he will not be successful.

But we need to officially add the 3D game and 3DCG tags so that they are displayed on the site, then they will be used and it will make sense. The current 3D tag can be changed to 3DCG, this will be more correct, and the 3D game tag can be added separately. If the tag is officially accepted, it will begin to be used

Should you still wonder how to find the games you want, maybe try actually searching for them.

How? You still haven't answered how I can search for 3D games? How to do it? There is no suitable tag on the site

Use alternative tags that mean the same.

There are no such tags on the site. There are only those that narrow the search and display even fewer games than needed

You can even browse for 3d and add the exclusion for visual novels.

Do you see a minus symbol somewhere here? I only see "plus". I see how to add another tag to the search. But there is no button to exclude their search tag

I think your game lacks the 3d game tag

I think your game lacks the 3d game tag

And since I was not heard, I repeat my question. What combination of tags do I need to enter to find ONLY 3D games? Not “first person”, not “third person”, not “walking simulator”, not “fps”, not “fps platformer”, but in general all three-dimensional games and nothing but three-dimensional games.

Are you making an idiot out of yourself on purpose? Have you read my very first message in this thread? Do you understand that 3D and 3D game are different terms? While 3D can mean anything, a 3D game has one specific meaning that is clear to everyone. Everyone except you, apparently.

A three-dimensional computer game (3D, English three-dimensional) is a game, a visual space that is entirely built from three-dimensional objects. The character is in three-dimensional space and in some games has complete freedom of movement. The first 3D game was Maze War (1973).

Three-dimensional games are fundamentally different from two-dimensional (2D) games, in which the game space consists of ready-made flat images - either hand-drawn or created by an artist in a three-dimensional modeling environment and then saved as ordinary images. The computer's task here is reduced only to combining these images in accordance with the game algorithms, which explains the low requirements of two-dimensional games for computer power. The freedom of movement of a character in two-dimensional games is limited: he can only move along the route provided by the developers.

Intermediate options between 2D and 3D are possible. Sometimes the term 2.5D is used for them.

• The game space is three-dimensional, but the models of game objects - buildings, plants, characters - are flat pictures, sprites. An example is early 3D games such as Wolfenstein 3D and Doom. In modern 3D games, sprites are used only to display objects that are present in very large quantities (for example, grass and trees), as well as objects that are located at a great distance from the character. This is done to save computer computing resources: for example, modeling a completely three-dimensional tree with thousands of leaves is a very difficult task for a computer, and modeling an entire forest is an impossible task, and it is impossible to do without sprites.

• The game space is two-dimensional, but the character models are three-dimensional. This technology is used in many quests. It allows you to combine high-quality two-dimensional hand-drawn backgrounds (usually partially animated) with “live” freely moving characters and at the same time does not require computer power. A striking example of such a game is Syberia.

My who? I suggest removing the 3D tag and adding two specific tags with specific values instead.

What misunderstanding could there be with the third-person game tag? I think this tag is extremely clear and unambiguous. Why is the 3D tag so vague?

Then answer, how can I find through the search games that have three dimensions? The genre of the game doesn’t matter to me, it doesn’t matter if the game is played in first person, third person or second person. It doesn't matter if it's a simulator, a shooter or a strategy game. All that matters to me is that the game be three-dimensional.

What combination of tags should I use for this?

For me this is the problem. I want to play a 3D game. So I find a game with the 3D tag that is three-dimensional in the screenshots. It looks very nice. I download the game, unpack it, and see that the game is based on the Renpai engine. And I know that Renpai does not support 3D.

This is what I think is the problem. Looking only at the screenshots, you can’t understand whether the game has three dimensions or not

You can always add more tags to refine your search.

No matter how many tags you add, it won’t change anything. If I add the 3D tag, it will certainly add visual novels that are not 3D to the search query. Tags cannot be excluded from searches. You can't add a 3D tag and exclude visual novels. That is the problem.

Grim Fandango is a 3D game despite having a static camera because the characters themselves can rotate in 3D

Rotating the camera usually means the game is in three dimensions. I haven't seen a game in which you can rotate the camera but that isn't 3D. Just like you said, in this game you cannot rotate the camera, but you can rotate the character himself since he is a three-dimensional model. And the entire environment, as far as I understand (I have not played this game), is also three-dimensional.

What about visual novels labeled 3D? There are pre-rendered flat pictures, and also pre-rendered 3D animations (video). But there is no real three-dimensionality there. The camera cannot be rotated, and the character cannot be rotated. The characters are not three-dimensional models, nor are the entire environment. Roughly speaking, this is a set of pictures and animations (videos).

The problem is that tags are selected by the game creator, and every creator has a different interpretation of what the tags mean.

They have no alternative. The 3D tag has a lot of meanings, and naturally, when there is only one tag, they add it. But if there are two separate tags, 3D game and 3D computer graphics, it will become more clear where there is real three-dimensionality and where graphics created using 3D technology are used. Naturally, the game co-creators themselves will add tags to their games. But in this case, users will be able to complain about developers who have assigned an inappropriate tag to their game. Now there is nothing to complain about.

What's wrong with my comment? Why can't I add a screenshot??

It's the same here. I can’t even add a screenshot of the problem HERE

[code]

I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.

While running game code:

  File "game/script.rpy", line 518, in script

    scene black fade

Exception: Image 'black' does not accept attributes 'fade'.

-- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------

Full traceback:

  File "game/script.rpy", line 518, in script

    scene black fade

  File "C:\Games\Tales_Of_Unity-0.11-pc\renpy\ast.py", line 1542, in execute

    show_imspec(self.imspec, atl=getattr(self, "atl", None))

  File "C:\Games\Tales_Of_Unity-0.11-pc\renpy\ast.py", line 1371, in show_imspec

    renpy.config.show(name,

  File "C:\Games\Tales_Of_Unity-0.11-pc\renpy\exports.py", line 686, in show

    if not base.find_target() and renpy.config.missing_show:

  File "C:\Games\Tales_Of_Unity-0.11-pc\renpy\display\image.py", line 414, in find_target

    self.target = target._duplicate(a)

  File "C:\Games\Tales_Of_Unity-0.11-pc\renpy\display\core.py", line 397, in _duplicate

    args.extraneous()

  File "C:\Games\Tales_Of_Unity-0.11-pc\renpy\display\core.py", line 265, in extraneous

    raise Exception("Image '{}' does not accept attributes '{}'.".format(

Exception: Image 'black' does not accept attributes 'fade'.

Windows-10-10.0.22621 AMD64

Ren'Py 8.0.3.22090809

Tales_of_Unity-v0.11 0.11

Sat Dec 16 23:07:27 2023

[/code]