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4x4 Archipelago

A procedurally generated, text-based fantasy RPG · By agat

Feedback thread Sticky

A topic by agat created Oct 01, 2021 Views: 1,585 Replies: 75
Viewing posts 21 to 35 of 35 · Previous page · First page

Finally, some typos. This is a bit of a text dump, as they're probably best done at once, searching through the source, but let me know about any concerns with my individual suggestions.

Your opponents seems ecstatic at her victory.

-> Your opponent seems ecstatic at her victory.

"Luckily, they were empty, as aren't transporting any cargo."

missing "you" plus a shift in verb tense

-> "Luckily, they were empty, as (you) (weren't) transporting any cargo."

Tell the Inventor you're a recpected member of the Academy

-> Tell the Inventor you're a respected member of the Academy

"You dare intrude upon Arch-lich Egros, mortal?" the undead hissess

-> "You dare intrude upon Arch-lich Egros, mortal?" the undead hisses

It's clear telling his story costed him a lot, and that he's utterly desperate.

-> It's clear telling his story cost him a lot, and (that) he's utterly desperate.

("that" is minor stylistic stuff)

When Quicksilver Crossobw is the active weapon, there's a chance that using ranged techniques

-> When Quicksilver Crossbow is the active weapon, there's a chance that using ranged techniques

This may or may not make a difference anywhere in the output, but a variable name was off.

While wandering through the dense jungles of $currenislandname you walk into a small clearing and stop in amazement.
-> While wandering through the dense jungles of $currentislandname you walk into a small clearing and stop in amazement.

The market is noisy and crowded; goods from all over the Archipelago are being traded, people are chattin, haggling and buying food at street stalls.

chattin -> chattin' (or more likely chatting)

I may call some beastie after you if you really help me.

-> "I may name some beastie after you if you really help me." (semantics: calling after is different from naming after. "Call" implies he will call the beastie to chase you.)

Finally, the serpents gives up the chase.

-> Finally, the serpent gives up the chase.

Sungleam doesn't deal physical damage, instead ...

-> Sungleam doesn't deal physical damage. Instead, ...

???? also in the Sungleam description

armour, but is -> armour but is

Coral Cave monument text:

Both leaders were convinced the other side is preparing to attack them.

-> Both leaders were convinced the other side was preparing to attack them.

The skeleton dragon roars and flies at you, trying to crush you!

-> The skeletal dragon roars and flies at you, trying to crush you!

(both are grammatically ok--"dragon skeleton" sounds a bit better than the reverse IMHO--but skeletal dragon is the name of the enemy so I think that's what's best)

(+1)

Finally, one bit of syntax recurs 4 or 5 times...

attackallmessages:["The drowned one claws at you", "The drowned one hits you", "The drowned one bites you"],

attacknormalmessage:["The drowned one claws at you", "The drowned one hits you", "The drowned one bites you"],

"The drowned one hits you" results in "The drowned one hits you, and hits you for X damage" or "hits you, but misses," which sounds either redundant or contradictory. So I would suggest going through attacknormal/all messages and replacing "hits you" with "swats at" or "slashes at" or "lunges at".

Developer(+1)

Thanks! I fixed this, as well as all the typos/grammar issues from your previous post, and, most importantly, the Arch-lich bug (which affected the "normal" lich as well. Now both enemies die as soon as they've been reduced to 0 HP).

I like your suggestions about the journal and improved dungeon room descriptions - I added that to my notes for a post-comp release.

When returning the statue to the temple after finding a thief, I seriously think the player should gain some renoun for doing this. Since the guards didn't chace the thief into the sewers, and the  villagers thought they'd never see their treasure again, surely this is worth a small bit of renoun, or would the quest be considered too insignificant, due to it being a small village? I do have a counterpoint to that, even. Surely, the villagers would spread word about this, and the beginner's tips do say you gain renoun for doing good deeds. What are your thoughts?

Developer

Thanks for your comment! The idea here is that you get bonus EXP for returning the statuette. You can think of it that way: the priests, who wanted it back, mostly stay in the temple and rarely talk to others, and common people weren't that interested in the artifact. But the other (probably bigger) reason is, I wanted to have some variety with quest rewards, so this one gives more EXP, while several other quests where you help the common folks can raise your Renown (I don't know if you've run into them, as sidequests are randomised and you don't see them all in a single playthrough).

that's fair. Thesame can be said for the one about the children and the curse in the village, as the villagers just seem suspicious of everyone but you get some good experience.

Do you think you'd also be adding the ability to pick what objective you try for a playthrough, or do you think it'll just be a list of classes? I do wonder how many there are, as when I played a couple of weeks back I kept on getting the story of relics and the story of spire, but when I started again yesterday, first time, I got pirate captains, which is a completely new one to me. I do wonder how it'll go, and am enjoying it so far. Managed to explore several islands on this playthrough and this time, I have magic.

Developer

I'm not planning to add the option of selecting the objective (long story short, with how the procedural generation works in the game, it would be complicated). But there's only 3 main objectives - you've actually seen them all :)

(+1)

Reporting a few typos (which may already be fixed since I played a little while ago):

  • The wise Queen saw through the Serpent's lies and lead her army to fight it. —> led
  • Lost Gem Island used to be the source of the clearest, most valuable gemstones in the Archipelago – until the ever expanding marshes have flooded the mineshaft the stones were found in. —> "have" seems extraneous
  • You know, You know, most people only know about Lahni from the great leap story, —> double "You know"

Also, this game is so good and I love it <3 <3

Developer

Hi, Passerine! Glad you're enjoying the game! Thanks for reporting the typos – I fixed them.

Passerine's post reminded me of a few more miscellaneous typos to sweep up whenever... (my local index.html reads 11/2)

(Red Knight)

But you look like and adventurer

-> But you look like *an* adventurer

(Hunting Fury)

The monsters emerges

-> The *monster* emerges

(Various combat)

The stone eel shoots a ball lightning out of its mouth

The tamed stone eel shoots a ball lightning out of its mouth at $enemy

The elementalist summons a ball lightning and sends it flying at you

(general search/replace) a ball lightning -> a ball of lightning

Developer

Thanks for reporting the typos – I fixed them. (Also, with the IfComp judging period over, I'll now try to fix small issues like these ASAP instead of waiting for a big bugfix to post an update ;)

I gotta be honest, it's a kinda hard to start out for me. I can't beat anything, everything hits more damage to me than I do to them and has more HP. Don't mean to complain but some advice would be appreciated, especially since I'm slowly going broke without any source of income LOL.

Developer

Hi there!

You can find some basic hints on getting started inside the game, in Journal -> How to play -> Beginner's tips.

There's also a great (and very detailed) strategy thread on the game, with lots of information compiled by a player. Available here:https://intfiction.org/t/4x4-archipelago-strategy-etc-warning-spoilers/53190 (it contains a lot of spoilers, but they're all tagged. Also, it's based on an older version of the game and doesn't mention things from the 1.2 update, like perks, but what it does mention is still accurate).

Hope that helps!

Thank you so much  ^^ I read everything of it. I gotta say I didn't understand of it but the gist is I'm gonna be collecting exp and leveling up my character, see how that goes xD. Thanks again ^^ 

Developer

Yes, the strategy thread goes into a lot of detail about all the individual quests etc., so it can be confusing if you haven't encountered them in the game yet! To simplify, the safest early game strategy would be to avoid combat (you should always carry a couple of Bottled Mists to be able to escape from strong monsters without rolling) unless with really weak enemies, check rumours on various islands to start quests (some will be too hard at first, but many require no combat/skills at all and give significant rewards) and visit markets (you can earn a lot of money by buying and selling trade goods). If your character has Charisma, listening to stories at inns and later "selling" them to the lady at the Academy also gives you a nice silver/exp boost.

That's what I've been doing ^^ I've been trying to find non-combat exp and it's worked so far. I'd say I'm on my way to a pretty good game. I have one further question; every time the game says savespot I assume it'll save, but I just died with a thousand plus silver on me (I seem to die a lot lol) and the last save it did had only 2 silver on my character... I assumed the islands were savespots, so that would be completely my fault if it wasn't just curious ^^ 

But all the help means a lot to me :D Thank you so much :) It really means a lot 

Developer(+1)

The game autosaves after you've sailed to a new island, not every time you visit the island's "main screen". You can still save manually in each "Savespot". (This is because the size of the game - as you've probably noticed, saving takes a lot of time, and I didn't want to introduce this long pause every time a player goes back to the island's main screen). Basically, whenever an autosave gets recorded, you get a "Game saved automatically!" message at the top of the page, and Savespot means you can save manually. Sometimes both happen at once.

Glad I could help, and good luck with the rest of your run!

(2 edits) (+1)

Ahhh yes I see I see that makes a lot of sense ^^ I was just confused since I thought it meant I saved those sweet 2000 silver and then I lost them xD. It just said 'approaching' and I was like 'eh????' 

BUT I got the silver back. Turns out I still had the map to it lol. Anyways I shall try my best to finish all the stories ^^ The first one I did was the pirate one, but I never got to finish that one cuz I lost the game and I finally found it back. And then I was like 'wait where are the pirates? huh? Tragic queen? Tower? What?' and then I noticed there were multiple story lines so I'm trying to finish them all :) 

All that's left is to figure out how to swap weapons xD cuz I read that you can do that in battle in the game but I had no idea EDIT: Figured that out too :') How did I never notice the inventory button still sitting there LOL. All this time I had acess to my character's precious stuff... (I'm uh... not so good at gaming XD but I'm having fun and that's all that matters if you ask me ^^) 

I hope you have a wonderful day and thank you so much for your time and patience, it really means a lot ^^ 

(+1)

I saw a small typo, it's nbd but I thought I'd mention it. "There were stolen from the great Southern Empire in its heyday, centuries ago, by four daring pirates." from the first page on a new game, "There" should be "They"

Developer

Thanks for reporting the typo! I fixed it.

(+2)

Hey agat! First of all I'd like to congratulate you on making such an incredibly well-put-together game, I've been playing for hours and hours and yet feel like I still have so much left to explore and discover! Anyway, i'm not sure if this is the best place for asking this, but I really wish you considered redesigning the character creation process in a way that let us mix and match names, classes and objectives as we saw fit instead of having to hit re-roll until we finally get the combo we were hoping for.

Developer

Hello! Thanks for your kind comment. I'm really glad you're having a good time with "Archipelago"!

As for your request: other people have also asked about this, so I decided to add it in an update, alongside another small feature I had planned. Combined, the new "Advanced start" option lets you select your class, give the character a custom name and optionally start the game with more EXP and/or silver.

I did not add the option to select the objective, because the objective influences many aspects of the world generation, so it has to be set as the first thing after running/restarting the game. Changing this would be really complicated. However, since there are only 3 objectives, I hope it won't be too bothersome to restart until you get the one you want, then change everything else in the Advenced start menu.

Cheers!

Thanks so much for the quick reply! Sounds great, keep up the good work! 

(+1)

Love this game!  I love the open-world feel, and enjoy exploring and completing quests. I was thinking it might be a good idea to add backstories for the  PC. These might also add  skills to the ones the player has e.g. if a your character was raised by nobility, the charisma skill is added, or increased to 2 where applicable. 

Developer

Thank you for the feedback!

Right now, I'm not planning any updates to the game, and I'm not quite sure if I'll ever update it at all (other than bugfixing), but if I ever do, I'll consider your suggestion! I think backstories could be nice - your particular example, +1 level of a main skill, seems too powerful, but something like a minor skill, extra cash or a special "heritage" item would certainly be possible.

Absolutely! I also think certain backstories could have quests associated with them. Sticking with my earlier example of nobility, the related quest might entail  defending your family’s honor or engaging in political affairs. Also, if you do decide to update the game again, it might be nice to start  off on whichever island you were raised on.  As it stands, the player is left to wonder, “Where am I sailing from when I first open the travel map?”  

This is not as much a bug as a feedback but ever since I've been playing this game I have been thinking... 

It would be great to choose your name and character type (Battle Mage, Explorer, etc) instead of having to click through until you find one you like. Just an idea tho :D You don't have to but yeah.
I really love this game as it is :D 

Developer

Hi!  The 1.2 update I published a while ago added these exact options, as they were requested by more people. Check the "advanced start" option in the main menu to see them.

Thanks for the comment, and cheers!

(2 edits)

Oh, sorry!! I didn't see that, forget i said something!! I need to wear my glasses more :') Thank you so much!! EDIT: Ok now I'm trying to find the advanced start menu I feel so stupid haha

EDIT 2: You can scroll down??? SINCE WHEEEEEEEN okay well uh... I'm going to be having lots of fun with this, thank you so much again, so sorry for the bother!! 

(1 edit) (+1)

Question: how in the heck do I kill the ancient dragon? I mean this thing’s a super mega boss with a buttload of Hp. Not to mention it keeps utterly destroying me. Is there some kind of puzzle to it? Do I have to acquire some super awesome weapon?

Developer

Hello! You're not the first player to ask this question. I created a new thread for strategy, and posted some hints about the ancient dragons in it: https://itch.io/t/2655166/hints-and-strategy-thread-ask-questions-share-your-str...

Hope this helps!

(+1)

Hey agat! I just noticed that after studying a renegade mage , the info you get about them actually relates to rock crabs, not renegade mages.  Obviously this isn't a huge issue and the game is absolutely incredible otherwise, but I thought I'd still mention it, mostly because I think it's kinda funny lol. 

Developer

Thanks for catching that! I fixed it. 

Glad you're enjoying the game!

(1 edit) (+2)

First off, this game is absolutely amazing! I had so much fun playing it, and it definitely has a lot of replayablity. There's so much to do, and I especially love the procedural aspects of it. 

I've actually made a few procedural games similar to this, but never finished them. I spent a while in choicescript, but eventually migrated to javascript so I could do more complex things. But 4x4 is definitely better than the games I made, in terms of actual playability. I looked at the raw html code, and there's over 70k lines of code in this, which is absolutely insane.

I have three suggestions for this:

One: Coral City is incredibly complicated. I had no clue how to escape, and that's with me mapping out every location and where it leads. I eventually ran out of health potions and had to go back to my old save, in which I never entered Coral City. 

(This was the little map I made: 

EDIT: Turns out my map was actually incorrect. I don't know how that happened, but it did lol. So don't use this as a reference.

Broken Piere: (West: Ampitheater) (East: NA) (Norht: Broken Statue) (N/A)
Ampitheater: (East: N/A) (South: Flooded House) (West: Tower Island) (North: Tower Island)
Flooded House: (West: Merfolk Statue) (East: Broken Statue) (North: Broken Pier) (South: N/A)
Merfolk Statue: (West: Ampitheater (Norht: Broken Pier) (South: Flooded House) (East: N/A)
Tower Island: (North: Ampitheater) (West: 3 Arches) (South: N/A) (East: Ampitheatre)
3 Arches: (North Ampitheater) (West: Tower Island) (East: N/A) (South: Tower Island)
Broken Statue: (South: Coral Hut) (East: N/A) (West: N/A) (North: Flooded House)
Coral Hut: (North: N/A) (South: Broken Statue) (East: Broken Statue) (West: Broken Statue)

As you can see, they all lead to each other, and none of them lead out of Coral City. And I traveled to each location and couldn't find anything that would help me escape.

Two: Allies should fight with you, not only when you tell them to attack. Right now, allies work similar to another weapon, which takes away from the immersion. Also, it would be cool if enemies could group together and didn't have to fight alone. I feel like this would massively improve the combat system. The way I would implement this is: 

Each fighter has a dedicated speed value. And if you don't want to add that, just go off their combat level. Whoever has the highest speed attacks first, they attack the weakest enemy. It continues like this. When it's the player's turn, they can choose whom they attack, and then the attack type. I have some code for a system like this, but I've never coded in Twine, so it wouldn't transfer. But if you wanted, I could share it, if it makes this any easier to understand.

Three: When I finished the main quest, it ended the game and didn't let me continue playing. This is probably good for encouraging more playthroughs. But if you finish the main quest early, you're cut off from much of the content. So, in my opinion, it would be better if the main quest didn't end the game.

Keep in mind that these are all suggestions that I think would be better, and that others may or may not agree with me. I hope you keep updating this, because it's actually amazing and has so much potential! Thanks!

Developer

Thank you for your kind comment and feedback!

I'm sorry to say that, but right now I have no plans for further updating the game. This is partially because I feel it's complete (previous updates were all things I had planned for the original release, which didn't make it in back then because of time constraints of IfComp), and partially because the game grew so big Twine editor cannot handle it any more. You noticed how long the code is - this is also because it's poorly optimised (I learned many functions as I worked on the game, and didn't learn some useful stuff until later, which would help clean and optimise the code). Right now, adding more stuff to the game would basically require rewriting and improving everything, and I rather make new games based on what I learned from this one. I don't categoricallty exclude the posibility of making a "remaster" of Archipelago one day, and then I'll certainly add new content, but this is all preliminary ideas now.

As for Coral City: it is intended to be difficult, as it's an optional dungeon, and the only puzzle-like one. That's why there is an autosave before you enter and no autosaves in the dungeon - so that you can easily reload if you get stuck. A hint for exploring the City, if you want to return there: pay attention to how long the current carries you each time. It helps figure out where you end up. For full solution, there is this excellent map a player made a while back, which explains everything: https://intfiction.org/t/trizbort-or-other-maps-for-ifcomp-2021/53008/10

Cheers,

Agat

Thanks! If you ever make something similar to Archipelago, I'll definitely play it!

(+1)

A most excellent game!

My only gripes are with the pacing (the first 3-5 points of renown take longer to collect than the next 20+) and replayability (most side quests, encounters, etc. are shared between the three main quests).

In my humble opinion, it would be cool if, after finishing one of the main quests, you could continue to another, using the same character and world. That way, you can experience all the main quests, without having to grind up to a high enough level three times on largely the same side quests, encounters, etc.

I'm looking forward to playing 4x4 Galaxy.

Developer(+1)

Thank you for your comment!

Just a heads-up, I made 4x4 Galaxy before Archipelago and it's a much, much simpler game.

(1 edit) (+1)

Finally got around to 4x4 Galaxy and loved it! The fact that it is much simpler and shorter, makes the early game feel less drawn out (it is easy to quickly earn renown) and makes each playthrough more contained and therefore easier to replay multiple times in quick succession. In their own, distinct way both 4x4 games are great!

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