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Unity game engine will become a virus, change engines now

A topic by firecat created Jul 14, 2022 Views: 2,924 Replies: 33
Viewing posts 1 to 10
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Big news today is Unity merging with a well known Virus company and scammers,  ironSource. They install what is called installcore which is a virus that Microsoft blocks: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/threats/malware-encyclopedia-description?Na...

You need to change engines, Unity will not going to be in control for long and there are better open sourced engines available to easy redo your project in a few days with C# Programming. The list are as follows:

- https://www.stride3d.net/

- https://www.neoaxis.com/

- https://www.ambiera.com/coppercube/index.html

People are already leaving Unity for other engines, this is now the time for major changes on how your game might be looked at by players.

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You need to change engines, Unity will not going to be in control for long and there are better open sourced engines available to easy redo your project in a few days with C# Programming. 

This by itself is not very convincing; it is like saying "Just install Gentoo, you can still play all your Windows games on it."  This is more likely to take months of dedicated work, with bugs and unforeseen obstacles continuing to crop up through the life of the project.  Can you speak to the ease of migration to any of these engines from firsthand experience?  If so, I would like to hear the details of what was easy and what the pain points were.  Just skimming the documentation for Stride and NeoAxis, I see several incompatibilities that would require significant time and effort to refactor.

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Unity did predict this will happen, their blog says: https://blog.unity.com/news/welcome-ironsource

"While Unity’s and ironSource’s management believe the assumptions underlying the forward-looking statements are reasonable, such information is necessarily subject to uncertainties and may involve certain risks, many of which are difficult to predict and are beyond management’s control. These risks and uncertainties include, but are not limited to the expected timing and likelihood of completion of the proposed transaction, including the timing, receipt and terms and conditions of any required governmental and regulatory approvals of the proposed transaction;  the occurrence of any event, change or other circumstances that could give rise to the termination of the merger agreement;"

This is why we know Unity and Ironsource will keep going on with the plans, Unity knows the problem and Unity did not care about the past behaviors until something bad happens. This is why everyone is saying to uninstall Unity because something bad will happen.

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I didn't say anything about Ironsource.  You wrote that the engines you linked are better than Unity and are trivial to migrate to, so I was just asking you to support that.  The documentation available for them does not give me that impression.  I looked at Flax, too, for good measure, and felt the same.  Even migrating my existing framework appears to be non-trivial, let alone all of my existing content.

you can't add a framework onto another framework, i'm mostly thought everyone would have to either find a way to copy and paste their code to other engines or almost redo their project to fit the new game engine. Each engine runs in different rules to set up games so i dont know the problem when the problem is starting over in a new engine.

(5 edits) (+1)

That's the problem.  By framework, I mean all of the scripts, prefabs, mechanics, UI, workflow, environment templates, etc. that I have built up within Unity that support creating content for this game.  I first developed this for my previous game, refined and expanded it for my current one, and intend to continue using it in the next one.  By content, I mean all of the monsters, items, map data and so on that are specific to this game.  At this point, I am mostly in drag-and-drop mode for creating content, except for the occasional small feature that I need to code.

Moving all of that to a new engine would be a huge effort and setback, much more than a few days.  To give one concrete example, none of them seem to have a clear equivalent to scriptable objects as far as I can tell, which I use very heavily for a variety of purposes (custom assets in Flax might get part of the way there, but not all of the way, I think).  I would have to find an alternative implementation for each specific use case.  Most would probably have to be converted to JSON files, so I would have to convert the corresponding classes and my content management code to populate from JSON instead of just referencing a scriptable object in the editor.  Then I would have to migrate hundreds of scriptable objects specific to this project into JSON files, some of which would reference other JSON files that in turn reference still other JSON files.  Then even once it's working, I now have to deal with editing and referencing a few hundred JSON files, instead of working with that data natively in the inspector like I do now.

So that's one example of what would be involved.  I have a number of issues with Unity and this merger is one of them, so I am not opposed to finding alternatives, but the alternatives don't seem to be ready yet, and I don't think uprooting my current project is worth the effort and risk.  I am more likely to look at other options for my next project, but even then, there is still a lot that I would need to rewrite to make it work.  Right now I have a fully-functional, mostly-easy-to-work-with RPG model built in Unity that I am hesitant to throw away without a good solid alternative, and I don't really need the latest versions of Unity anyway.  I can stick with 2020 for as long as it's viable, if I need to.

you cant move scripts and other unity exclusive files to other programs, unity script developers made it only for unity, it was never designed  to work elsewhere. This may also go with unity store assets as well, they were build only for unity.

Yes, I know.  That is why the statement

there are better open sourced engines available to easy redo your project in a few days with C# Programming. 

is completely untrue.

it's true if you didn't exclusively use unity engine and every asset you got was from unity. No one controls how they worked,  the developers who rely too much on unity are now facing problem because of exclusivity not game problems.

Nope.  I do not use Unity store assets, and you do not know what you're talking about.  This is a waste of time.

if you cant move anything outside of unity then it's never meant to work anyway. C# code and other stuff should have been  able to move because the assets are not locked but if they are locked like your stuff then it is only created to be for unity. As i said scuptis are a unity thing just like blueprints are a UE4 thing, you cant make these work on other engines.

Deleted post

bad joke

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This is kind of an overblown take. I don’t want to minimize the fact that Ironsource is awful, and given current trends in management it’s probably best to drop Unity as soon as convenient, but the engine will not magically transform into a virus overnight. Far as I’m aware the company also no longer produces malware, pivoting to the similarly-awful business of mobile game monetization.

Does that make them trustworthy? No, absolutely not. But I don’t think the level of “Unity’s turning into a virus!” fearmongering going around right now is healthy, you can criticize this merger and question the engine’s long-term viability without crying wolf.

Most long-running projects generally don’t change engine versions often, if someone has a game in development they can complete it (and probably should, given the monumental cost of switching) in the same version they started in. After that? Probably a good idea to look at alternatives. But there’s no need to jump ship immediately and risk your project in response to this news either.

Nope its judefity because unity CEO is formal EA guy that once try to add microtransactions for reloading the guns. You didnt do enough research,  they were sued for illegal use of a Patent in 2021: https://portal.unifiedpatents.com/ptab/case/PGR2021-00096

Sold data  of kids that broke the COPPA law in    2018: https://www.techdirt.com/2018/05/16/ad-software-dev-doesnt-like-being-called-out...

Ironsource did not pay developers in 2017: https://forums.makingmoneywithandroid.com/t/ironsource-doesnt-pay-me-money/20161...

Dan Greenberg of ironSource says misleading interactive mobile ads were huge in 2019 :https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2020-01-28-when-do-deceptive-playable-ads...

Understand the malware started in 2015, it's been 11 years and they are still doing bad things. Unity will fall into the same fate.

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These are all pretty awful things for sure, and I’d concede the point entirely if even one of them refuted my points. But none of them do, they reinforce what I’m saying here–this is an awful merger and we’re justified in being mad about it, but hammering on the virus point masks the current issues and kills the arguer’s credibility. Pretty much every place I’ve seen folks discuss this merger people have largely only reacted to the virus bit and not their scummy present (which, again, I acknowledged in my post) or the shit Riccitello’s been saying lately.

These are the things we actually need to worry about, and the current discourse only serves to hurt small devs currently making Unity games by painting their work with suspicion while ignoring the real problems.

its a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll

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I have a game made with Unity called "Randy & Manilla", and to this day i still use the Unity 2019.2.9. But after the news of the merge with Ironsource, I was forced to change the engine for 2023but I don't know which one to choose. ¿Unreal, Godot or Flax? Speaking of Flax, I've heard that it has a very similar interface and scripting language to Unity. But nevertheless, since I have it in development since 2019, what do you think is the best option?
Change the engine, or keep the existing one to finish it?

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Just after posting this post, I just tried Flaxthe engine it really intended to use for Randy & Manilla after the merge scandals of  Unity x IronSource and layoffs. Using it, I found that it did have some very cool features (such as instant play of the game or it's scripting language), however, it still looks like an alpha on many other features (like a store, or the animations).

Well, I will just wait until Flax has enough features to be a viable replacement for Unity or Unreal. Anyway, I have no choice but to finish the game with Unity 2019.2.9 before abandoning it permanently. Developers who use Unity and can't properly align with Unreal or Godot, shouldn't update the engine, don't buy anything else from the Asset Store, and don't use their ad services as a protest against the abusive policies of the company behind the engine.

Unity is basically the Youtube of the game engines (or worse), very popular, easy to use and bad policies and decisions that make it more and more humdrum and conformist.

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I must the panic attacks from this are a bit overblown considering a couple of facts:

1) InstallCore has been deprecated for a while. If you try to google for it or it's SDK you will find absolutely nothing. 

2)InstallCore itself wasn't a virus at all as many people think it was. It was actually an open source installation and content distribution SDK which is where it was classified as a virus because many malware creators used it to create infected installers for programs. Not to mention it was also free and widely used(100 million users according to wikipedia).

3) Ironsource shifted their focus towards mobile app development and monitization and their main area of focus nowdays are mobile apps , ads and games. They even own a mobile game publishing company called Supersonic studio. Many mobile developers use Ironsource for their mobile apps or games even the ones made in Unity. 

Unity itself will not become a virus or become overloaded with ads. The reason why Unity merged with Ironsource to begin with was because Unity started to focus more on profit and mobile ads were earning unity a lot of profit and that's where Ironsource is hugely successful.

This merge will only massively change who the provider of mobile ads is going to be thou in reality nothing will change with this merge because you could already use the Ironsource SDK with Unity for a long time(since version 2017.2).

You can still use any older Unity version if you so desire. The only reason for change is because Unity as a company themselves shifted focus from the game engine to profits. The rest is honestly just fearmongering. While IronSource is shady rest assured that this will only affect the mobile game development and mobile ads.

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If what you say is true that it will only affect the mobile games, then fine, I will finish my project with the version of Unity established and for the next one I will change of engine.

1) No it's not true, the SDK is still around: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2020-01-28-when-do-deceptive-playable-ads...

They were also sued for breaking the COPPA law:   https://www.techdirt.com/2018/05/16/ad-software-dev-doesnt-like-being-called-out...

2) Microsoft has details on it and it is not anything you just said.

3) Yes they only care about profits, the CEO of unity was once CEO EA guy who wanted to microtransaction everytime you reload a gun. They do not care about game or the engine.

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1) That's not the installCore SDK. That's the IronSource SDK.  Different SDK. One is for installCore the other one is for ads. Also these types of deceptive fake playable ads are nothing really new. Many companies used them and still use them to promote their product. They are deceptive as many ads are ,but usually not malicious.

2)Obviously to you know make ads personal many companies usually collect a lot of data of users. I will say this while this is shady IronSource is 100% not the only company doing this stuff. Google, Meta(Facebook),Amazon even Unity themselves do this. There are bound to be a couple of privacy violations. I think the most famous one is the Facebook one. Google themselves got in trouble with COPPA with Youtube. Again while shady it's really nothing new in the world of mobile app/game development or how ads work in general. You would be surprised with how much Google knows about you.

3)Unity developers can use other ad services other than IronSource or Unity ads.... however reminder that no matter what service they use ads are always going to be shady and deceptive. That's just how ads work nowadays. 

What this means for Unity is unknown ,but since IronSource is a massive player in mobile app/games development and one of the massive ad service providers it means Unity will probably use IronSource for their ads. Again this does not mean that every single unity game will suddenly become infested with these ads as Unity ads are an optional package that developers choose to use(unless that changes somehow) and like I mentioned before they can use other ad services. In fact IronSource was one of many ad services Unity developers could and still can use to this day. Some unity developers already use IronSource. Do what you wish with that information.

you are only looking at the ads which is not how these companies work to make money, anyone can block ads they know this and we know this. The problem is the tracking and lying to get you the player to agree to give up access to your personal data. Unity will require you to sent personal information and other ways you make money. These things are legal for them to do by law, other companies do not offer such because they are not as evil and scammy as installcore.

You can see a almost exact copy of such things in Valve/Steam in the User Agreement, you have given up all your rights to Valve and this is just to play games.  Making games as a different effect and has different legal stats.

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Quite honestly the reactions I am seeing to this news around the internet, including from the media, concern me more than the news itself.  There is a narrative going around now that games made with Unity are dangerous and must be avoided because they are all going to come bundled with malware from now on.  All this does is hurt the indie developers that build with Unity by promoting disinformation about their products.  We shouldn't be your targets.

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Like I said it's fearmongering and it's honestly not the first time Unity got a bad reputation. The engine itself nor games made with it won't magically become viruses because of this merge because installcore(the open source installation SDK) is deprecated and IronSource themselves shifted focus from installcore to the mobile app and game market. They are now one of the major players in the mobile development market. In fact nothing major will come from this merge to the engine itself. The area of focus for this merge were mobile ads which are again going to be optional and if you want to use some other company for ads rather than Unity Ads you can and always could do. You can use Ironsource SDK for mobile ads in your Unity game right now as we speak.


You can still use Unity and still make games with Unity and it will still be continued to be used. However I would say switching engine if you are worried about the future of Unity and how the former EA CEO who is now Unity's CEO is running the company worries you then yeah consider switching. To what? I have no idea.... GODOT 4 when it comes out maybe.

As for the reputation hit yeah it's to be expected. Unity has always had a bad rep with gamers in general.

I am not saying the merge is good or any news surrounding Unity is good. 4.4 billion dollars could have been used to I dunno improving the game engine so it stops being such a bloated piece of software. The fact that the company laid off 200 employees who were working on their own game project is really really scummy ,but hey look who's the ceo of Unity now. It's none other than former EA CEO who during his time at the company got an award for the worst company ever twice and who got laid off by the company themselves because he basically destroyed many game studios under EA. The dude called game developers who don't focus on money when developing games f-ing idiots.

If there is a reason to switch it's because a former EA ceo is now the CEO of Unity and he as always is a greedy f-ing idiot.

To give some credit, he did what they brought him in to do: bring in more investment, grow them fast and get them to an IPO so they could cash out their stock. In the process, they made Unity free (just about everything you need, unless you just have to have a custom logo), which was after I'd paid six thousand dollars over the years for Unity Pro, and this is why $100k-license engines like Unreal and CryEngine (if anyone still cares) are now free.

Nevertheless, I wasn't excited about him taking over, and the last several years have confirmed my preconception (obnoxious press interviews, sexual harassment allegations...). The last straw for me was when they introduced their publishing service, with partners including a piracy site that already "published" several dozen copies of my game. So I deleted my Unity account over two years ago (funny story,even  if you delete your Unity account, your apps with Unity Ads will still display ads generating revenue for Unity, and Google Play users who don't like seeing any ads in a free app will still complain vociferously).

Unity is a big and dominant company, so their product is not going away anytime soon, and they have a lot of really sharp developers, some of who have even reached out to help when I complained on twitter, but again, it's a big company, so it's a mixed bag - some of their staff I'll be happy not to deal with again. And they remind me of Google in how they introduce new services only to lose interest a few months later.

But dropping Unity was a personal decision, not a business decision. It took me six months to port the game I licensed into Unity (and a couple of years for it to really be complete) which involved getting the original game running enough to integrate an FBX exporter, then manually reconstructing all the scenes in the Unity editor and debugging all the coordinate differences (different scale, swapped UVs...) and then of course writing all the code in Unityscript (and later rewriting it all in C#), and since I dropped Unity, I have yet to port anything from my old projects into a new engine or start a new project from scratch. Every engine is different, which is a good thing, but that means you're talking different scripting or programming languages, different APIs, different paradigms (e.g. Unity uses a component system while Godot is more object-oriented).

Ironsource has still only done bad things since then, i already posted this many times but they still mislead ads, they still break laws like COPPA and they still are a virus under microsoft after 7 years. Nothing about this company is to be trusted.

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Or people can just not update their Unity editors lol. I have to admit this kind of hysteria never made any sense to me.

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Christ, and just when I was sitting down to work on my Unity game.

Honestly, I don't care about the virus-scanner fiascos, nor the layoffs with the company. But after I finish this game (it's using an older version of Unity, before this garbo), it's off to Unreal. I don't even care that I'm working with 2D. IDK about anything else other than that the CEO called me stupid for not monetizing a free game. Only two people get to call me "stupid:" people who prove they're smarter than me, or a fem-dommy-mommy, and that fat blowfish ain't either.


Shame too, since I knew some very good single player games that were made with unity (TWEWY:Neo for one).