itch.io

Browse Games Game Jams Upload Game Developer Logs Community

Log in Register

Indie game store Free games Fun games Horror games

Game development Assets Comics

itch.io Community » General » General Discussion

Blockchain and gaming can they co-exist?

A topic by AppleNinja created Jan 16, 2022 Views: 683 Replies: 33

Viewing posts 1 to 9

AppleNinja2 years ago

I am often looking for games that bring together blockchain and gaming in a harmonious way where the bridging makes sense and isn't superfluous and unnecessary. Recently I found and uploaded https://appleninja.itch.io/shodown (which is a browser based game that uses solana blockchain to achieve a penny-arcade-machine experience). The game is very difficult and easy to learn but hard to master and issues rewards for those who beat the game in record time.

Do you think blockchain and gaming can be bridged or are they forever to remain apart?

Midnight Spire Games2 years ago(+7)

Why?

AppleNinja2 years ago

Why not? The integration can create unique gaming experiences, better payment methods for those devs who choose to have their games accessible via payments also.

No Time To PlayModerator2 years ago(+5)

Like what "unique gaming experiences"? That's a buzzword. And "better" payment methods? As in burning down an entire forest to buy a cool hat in-game?

AppleNinja2 years ago

Depending on the blockchain used you aren't burning much energy (certainly not burning down rainforests with solana txs as these are very cheap)
Yes for sure lots of buzzwords thrown around (However as the game demonstrates you can achieve a penny-arcade like experience in a much more fun way vs buy 100 virtual coins after a stripe payment for example(which would be very cumberson if had to do it one by one)

Arekku2 years ago(+2)

Yeah you can get an arcade experience in Run Together and thousands of other games that are free on itch.io.

AppleNinja2 years ago

I think my comments below explain more what I am saying with respect to penny-arcade-experience. I will check your game out though looks fun!

AppleNinja2 years ago

With respect to paying for games ( there could be a micro pay 2 play model much more easily constructed with blockchain => Instead of paying for the whole game you can pay on a run-through basis(so like its based on until you die for instance)

Arekku2 years ago(+3)

Because buying Solana in order to buy Ray in order to buy Cope in order to play the game is so much more convenient than just using the standard itch.io integration with paypal to pay for access using regular money.

Truly an experience.

Midnight Spire Games2 years ago(+2)

The integration can create unique gaming experiences,

Like what?

better payment methods for those devs who choose to have their games accessible via payments also.

Why is it better?

AppleNinja2 years ago

'unique gaming experiences' I think you are right here. this is definitely said alot. I suppose what I mean is that anything in a blockchain potentially has some real-world value => This can change how the game is viewed by the players (of course in many settings this will be viewed as exploitation but I think it doesn't make sense to completely disregard this aspect)

Midnight Spire Games2 years ago (2 edits) (+3)

Players don't necessarily like that, though. Diablo III's real-money auction house was so despised that it was removed from the game entirely and never came back. In MMOs, gold farmers are among the most hated class of players for contributing to inflation and being a general nuisance, and people who buy gold or entire accounts tend to be looked down on as cheaters who are enabling said nuisance. "Pay-to-win" is understood as one of the worst possible criticisms for a free-to-play game, and it gets slung around at the slightest nudge to your wallet. Obviously there are enough people spending money on these business models to keep them profitable, but that does not make me think it's good for games.

Many years ago, before I knew better, I tried out a game called Project Entropia that was all about this kind of RMT, and it was an absolutely terrible game. It was little more than a glorified online casino. The game was designed to entice you to pour money into it to buy in-game resources (which were very difficult or time-consuming to acquire otherwise) to hunt down rare trophies in hopes of a big payout. Before I played the game I dismissed this as a dumb gimmick that I would just ignore, but it can't be ignored, because it is the core of the entire experience. I did not play it very long, or spend any money on it.

Arekku2 years ago (1 edit) (+1)

Wow this game is terrible, I can't even play it.

There is no idea that can't be made worse by adding blockchain to it.

Edit: This just gave me an idea. There is no idea that can't be made worse by adding blockchain to it, and the reverse is also true. If you take an idea and remove blockchain from it, it becomes better. So I just take this concept, remove the blockchain, put in Clawdia instead and we have an instant hit.

AppleNinja2 years ago

I am sure there will be lots of folks on itch who won't be able to play this game I have found on the web right now (as probably many not crypto native or haven't even processed a crypto tx ever) However instead of buying this game (if you want to play it you can but it just costs 7 cents a turn and there are rewards if you beat it in record time) => achieving this kind of experience with fiat payments is much more cumbersome from an end user perspective. I understand if you simply hate internet money protocols (if you have a complete disdain for them then of course whether the game is good or not you will probably just dislike it) => Having said that, you probably find that you 'cannot play the game' due to the inherent limitation (of having to connect wallet) => However if you do want to give it a go and are struggling let me know I can help you

AppleNinja2 years ago (1 edit)

What is also interesting is how blockchain protocols enable composability. So like for example if everyone played game X and let's say 5000 sessions took place across 100 players potentially all could have spent $50-$300. This amount can be used in a yield farm to acquire some yield (for which can be used to buy a digital good that can be given out to a player of the game with the original amount used to play the game returned to the players) ==> This is a fun way of making use of valuable protocols to reward players of a game( This is one aspect of creating unique gaming experiences)

No Time To PlayModerator2 years ago(+3)

In other way, the unique gaming experience is... getting robbed blind? Thanks. I'll pass.

AppleNinja2 years ago

If you go to a penny-arcade machine and play the game (you pay x cents to play an arcade) => The arcade might reward you with a high score if you play well and beat it (but it never rewards you in the real world for the amount you put in) => However with composability its possible to make it worthwhile playing the game (from a real-world value perspective also) In the example given the pennies put in so to speak are given back to the users with one of them receiving a digital good on top. I think it would be unfair to completely dismiss this capability especially if it can mean more value for players (I think this bit is important ("IF" and there are ways to make this possible)

No Time To PlayModerator2 years ago(+4)

The only value I expect when playing a game is having fun. Try again.

AppleNinja2 years ago

I think this is a great point. And honestly have to say this is the crux of it all. Fundamentally games should be fun. If they are not fun then it simply doesn't matter. Having said that there are many arcade machines that are a tonne of fun. I think the arcade machine can be reinvented and reward players (because of composability which simply cannot exist with the protocols implemented in existing arcade machines).

No Time To PlayModerator2 years ago(+4)

You still haven't explained what this "composability" means apart from game companies taking more money from me.

AppleNinja2 years ago

Composability between protocols (exists on Solana for example) => This means any inputs can be combined together and worked on a different protocol in the solana network to earn yield. The yield can be instantly realised(after it has been collected) and the inputs returned back to the users = > With this a user who played can be picked at random (or it could be a high scorer) => They receive a digital good (realised from this yield (which can be harvested at any time). This composability is exists in this digital economy and it can be used to give more value to players

Arekku2 years ago(+3)

I don't think anyone here knows what "yield" and "harvest" is. You'll need to explain this to us.

Tbf I don't anyone knows what inputs is either because most people don't possess that level of understanding of blockchain.

No Time To PlayModerator2 years ago(+2)

I'm going to assume that's con artist slang for reaping money off victims. And that's us. It's all a big obvious scam, and they hate that people are catching on at last.

Midnight Spire Games2 years ago(+2)

I don't understand what this means. Who is collecting these payments? If it's the developer, why would they charge players money and then give it back to them? What is a yield farm? Who decides what to buy with the money? If it's an in-game item, why does the developer need all these extra steps or even the blockchain at all to give it away? Couldn't they just randomly give stuff away for free every month? Is there really any difference from the player's perspective?

AppleNinja2 years ago (1 edit)

If its trustless then its the game program that will collect. It can also be the developer wallet for example but probably better if its the game program wallet. The developer has multiple options (they can charge on a per turn basis with micro payments and super low tx fees like $0.0001) in any case all payments from users can be pooled together and put into a yield farm(this is just one example) => This earns a yield on the existing pooled amount => After some time elapses the yield collected can be used to completely reward a user (or set of users) => A portion can be put aside for the continued development of the game also (users can vote on this for example) => Once yield is realised and digital good bought the principal pooled amount can be returned to the players (e.g. literally just a few steps from realising yield to buying digital good rewarding user with digital good to returning pooled capital to users

AppleNinja2 years ago (1 edit)

if you have thousands of players (say you have 10000s of players => The yield can be significant enough to continue long-term development of the game and reward users )

Midnight Spire Games2 years ago(+4)

Eh... that sounds basically like playing the stock market on top of playing the game. Speaking for myself, I don't really want to do that.

At any rate, this kind of blockchain yielding or mining or whatever has priced me out of the GPU market for the past five years. Irrespective of what it means for game design, it's been a disaster for gaming.

AppleNinja2 years ago

yield is yield (the term is different from investing). Yield is typically fixed rate. And I don't think anyone really mines these days. Unless you were there when the protocol was in its infancy.

Whitewatt2 years ago(+3)

AppleNinja2 years ago

Great point! I asked the devs they were saying I can post, so I think it's okay. I want to share more games like this that make use of this technology, hopefully in a harmonious way. I will only share stuff if the devs say its cool

AppleNinja2 years ago

The fundamental crux of the matter though is , well, is the game FUN? The penny-arcade-machines work well because they are fun. I just think in this digital economy these machines can be re-invented and built with composability in mind (and this is possible). I think such an SDK will exist at some point and it will be interesting to see what the uptake looks like

Deleted post2 years ago

Deleted 1 year ago

Arekku2 years ago(+3)

My RPG senses tells me you're not getting paid....

No Time To PlayModerator2 years ago(+1)

No you aren't. Good guess.

quou2 years ago(+3)

I think they will and are being pulled together, because the NFT guys will find a way to wedge themselves into everything in existence - like Rule 34, but worse. I don’t think they should be bridged, though. Games are for entertainment, storytelling, creative expression and a way to socialise. This part of gaming has already been ruined to some extent by massive corporations, but that is to be expected. Don’t ruin it more by purposefully mixing scammy blockchain bullshit in with it.

Log in to reply Join the discussion. Log in or create a free itch.io account to continue.