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What Does She Have Against Asterion Anyway?

A topic by Theodwulf created 37 days ago Views: 581 Replies: 37
Viewing posts 1 to 7
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This is a question that's growing on me, the last few playthroughs.

What vote records are currently discoverable make it clear that Athena, specifically, wanted the labyrinth. This was her idea, she moved heaven and earth (literally in the persons of Zeus and Demeter) to make it happen, to the point that she didn't care who could tell she was rigging the trial, and then even demanded a recount which she then adulterated. Why? Why does it matter to her that Asterion have his own private hell dimension forever?

One possibility is the way that a lot of the current scholarship seems to accuse Athens, Athenian historians and poets and playwrights, of skewing the mythological body of Ancient Greece to give Athens a more important place within the lore: Athens, as an inhabited site, is not as old as places like Mycenae, Sparta, Corinth, Arcadia, or especially Crete, but because they were the ones writing the history and doing the theatre contests and establish the academies, the version of ancient Greek history and myth that gets passed to us is THEIR version. The Narrator says as much themselves, cites the Orestia as an example, which ends with Athena talking the furies into "legal justice" rather than "revenge" and inventing Due Process, in Athens, which is ridiculous. So maybe this was an attempt at something like that? Maybe Athena thought, oh, I need the fact that Athens won and Crete lost to be something that everyone gets always reminded of forever, I can't let it be forgotten in the underworld.

Another possibility is that Athena's fallen into Recursion, the same way Hermes does at the (current) end. Setting up a labyrinth with a human master who torments Asterion might be recursive, with the succession of Masters standing in for Theseus. But it's also possible that it's a recursion of the older rivalry against Poseidon: hell, Theseus himself might be a recursion of that. Asterion being of Poseidonic lineage, and part of an actual sacred Bull-Themed lineage, as his underworld trial explains, might be reason enough. The question, though, is if it is recursion, is it DELIBERATE? The recursion Hermes fell into seems to have been partially intentional on his part, he set up the Argoi, which means the first step of his plan to free Asterion was "make the situation more like one of his myths," presumably in the hope that recursion makes it more likely to succeed. So, was Athena trying to accomplish something to which she meant to connect Asterion's punishment? Have him re-enact the labyrinth as a power source? Or, is it possible it's not HER recursion, it's Asterion's? According to Robert he's maybe much more powerful than he knows, so perhaps his recursion, like, gravity well is powerful enough to pull Athena into orbit?

A third possibility has to do with what Robert tells you about Asterion's soul, that it's been "drained" in some way. Now, it's possible this happened at the initial actual killing, something to do with why the Labrys is the way that it is, but it's also possible that draining him and keeping him drained is what the labyrinth is supposed to do? I don't think there's enough material yet to speculate as to why.

The final possibility I can see is that it's something to do with the way mythicals are marginalized in this world. We seem to be dealing with a somewhat... right-wing Athena, let's say, one who emphasizes Law and Order and The March of Progress and Civilization. Humans, then, could be aligned with Athena (every background you can pick, except "speedrunner," is something that falls under her patronage,) and non-humans with Poseidon (since Hermes' vote mentions her grudge against Poseidon's "lineage.")  I could see this leading thematically into a mandate that people who are clearly not human are required to remain invisible with the charm and passport system. Whether that means she instituted the first one, just divinely inspired them, or just happens to like them, they do seem to be thematically congruent.

didn't Asterion mercy kill a follower of hers? I can't remember the details but I vaguely remember it being mentioned in the game

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I had another thought about this... What if Asterion's suffering is a battery of sorts. Someone who lived in the times of the Olympian gods and goddesses and by continuing to exist keeps them in power. We learned from the story that gods without worshippers lose their power and eventually fade... By keeping Asterion alive in the labyrinth they have a captive power source for the rest of time, plus it's inspired all the myths that we would recognize today about the Cretans the Romans and Greeks. By keeping the old gods somewhat active in popular culture and myth, and strengthening the existing mythos, they gave themselves another possible way to stay alive...?

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Honestly, she might not have anything against him specifically. Asterion is likely a form of scapegoat to an issue among the gods. Maybe she just has a problem with Poseidon and she targeted Asterion to punish Poseidon. Or it's an elaborate plan to keep an eternal worshipper of the olympus, given that gods might require followers to have power and overall health, like some fucked up form of a retirement plan she devised.

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People keep coming up with the eternal worshipper theory but by the looks of it currently in the story Asterion only gives worship to Hestia and Hades which aren't apart of Olympus, it is also seems that worship to the gods only goes to the god you're worshipping, as is mentioned by Robert that Hades is doing fine due to the fact that people residing in the Hades worships him meaning that worship works only to the individual and not the Greek gods as a whole. it wouldn't make sense to plan for something like that considering they are probably aware who he's worshipped in the past and being put into this situation would most likely cause a lesser person forsake the gods.

That's.... true.... Hmm, now I'm not sure haha

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the Olympic gods have always been spiteful and bitter, Athena is probably just doing it for the sake of it.  for example, shes known to be a sore loser with the tale of Arachne who was turned into the first spider because she beat Athena in a weaving contest. The 12 are flawed beings

That's certainly true! We may be looking for some greater reason in this, where the answer is literally just 'because she felt like it' or 'because she could'

knowing how the game has gone so far, I doubt the devs would out right go for "because she felt like it" they seem to be alluding to something going on behind the scenes

Flawed, certainly, but Athena isn't that kind of... impulsive is maybe the word I'd use? I think if a story had her doing something like this, something that requires this level of planning, logistics, negotiation, and strategy--all things she's admittedly good at--for no more reason than "just because," I'd say that story wasn't being fair to Athena

Even in stories with an antagonistic Athena, such as Arachne, or an outright evil Athena-equivalent, such as the Wicked and the Divine, I don't think a story gets to call an Athena "Athena" unless there's a reason for what she does and plans. That reason might be misguided, harmful, imperialistic, even insane, but she'd have to be the only Olympian who I just plain wouldn't ever buy that she's acting on pure whimsy.

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Or she just wanted to mess with Poseidon by proxy.

The eternal worshipper theory is pretty entertaining though; it seems like something clever Athena, who is touted for her intellect, set up to perpetuate their existence.  Plus, are we sure that direct acts of worship is what keeps them alive or gives them power? For all we know, it might just be faith, belief and other directed feelings/thoughts (admiration, awe, fear, respect) instead, which Asterion is not lacking in any regard. Maybe eternal believer would be more fitting?

Also, I think I can counter one of your points of thinking that Asterion would forego the gods-- both collectively and individually. They've sentenced and deemed Asterion to be meek and timid-- submissive to the wills of the gods and higher powers. Perhaps Athena thought that this mentality is eternally cemented in Asterion's character. In fact, this proves true; Asterion found himself genuinely deserving of his sentence all this time. A perfect personality to serve as an eternal worshipper, no? Asterion knew that the torturous labyrinth is the collective efforts of the gods (Athena included). What could the prisoner do but continue believing in the power, existence and dominance of its creators as the reality of his experience in the labyrinth is continually proven to him everyday all these years? If the gods are indeed fed by this kind of belief, then the labyrinth is an ingenious self-sustaining system. Just to add, I don't remember Asterion harboring contempt on any of the gods. He's placed them on such a high pedestal that he probably can't even start to think of forsaking them-- he'd probably supplicate himself to them more. I swear, this may be an intentional big brain move on Athena's part-- taking advantage of his personality and all.

when I mentioned forsaking the gods I was referring to a lesser person that wasn't Asterion, I'd assume if one of us were in the same situation we'd most likely do that

well the details to how that works aren't exactly clear, how come dead people can worship hades but not the gods they used to in life?

besides, the labyrinth has worked enough that the gods are still around. but even then, they are kinda failing and going senile. hermes straigth disappeared.

so this eternal worship can only do so much or has requirements we are not fully aware off. part of the theory is that it's a flawed solution.

we see that Asterion learns of the true purpose of his punshiment in one of the ruthless endings, and he isn't very pleased. so at the very least it's safe to assume it has nothing to do with what he did. maybe it's something that he specifically could accomplish. or is just a scapegoat to someone else's problem.

I wish I could do the ruthless endings but I don't have the heart for it

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you don't have the heart? then you should be good to go you heartless monster ^^. 

but in all seriousness, you can detach yourself from the protagonist. the ruthless chapters are predominantly played from Argos perspective anyway, and it focus more in the secrets of the lore about the labyrinth. it's absolutely worth checking out

I can try, but I don't think I could handle the big boy getting hurt :p

don't worry, if you don't have the guts, you will find some spares you can take

I have seen certain sprites in the files...

hehe, you've already seen the worst of it. should be fine to read.

:( I'm scared

I feel like I just shot a puppy in the face

that would have been more merciful, this the ruthless route. like i said, it's best to separate yourself from MC in these chapters

wait, there is a purpose or motive on why hes being punished? or i jsut misread it? its been long since i palyed this vn...

well yeah, you don't just make a magical labyrinth to specifically torture someone for eternity for nothing. what the motive is, however, we can only expeculate from the hints given. but Asterion is likely not guilty of anything.

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What does he learn at the end of the ruthless route, what's the purpose of his torment?

doesn't says. we know he know but we don't know what he know

Hmmmmm darn 馃槀

Ok, this seems relevant. Who told you to put it like that, Argos?

see what i mean? this is probably a game for her to bully on Poseidon

Ah this, this makes me laugh, and cry. 

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Humanity also has a tendency to dehumanize and vilify the Other, especially in light of WW2, and Asterion is an easy target for that. But what if she is working with Argos and also trying to test the masters? I wonder if this is a mythical Stanford Prison Experiment, and she is watching how long it takes for the average man to get drunk on power.

i don't think she is working with Argos, the rutheless route explores enough of his character that it would be unlikely that it would be the case

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She just hates bottoms.