Post by waltercool in Harem Hotel (18+) comments

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waltercool3 years ago (3 edits) (+1)(-6)

Unpopular opinion here:

By last updates, the game "elf history" is becoming quite lame, while the other stories are quite good and can't complain.

The "elf drama/revolution" feels very non-related to the game itself, the game began as a "dating sim" alike game, but by any reason Runey42 made a twist to a drama/fight/politics story which feels very non-related to the hotel original story.

While some people may like the idea, I don't, as mentioned before its personal opinion, likely unpopular feedback but a good intended one.

RuneyGames3 years ago(+6)(-1)

If you're not interested in the elf stuff, that's fine. But Lin is the first main character you meet, and her first event sets up that you now own a slave, and she's worried who you're going to turn out to be, hoping her luck didn't run out. This has very much always been in the game, the shift is happening in focus. That was in the background, and now it's in the foreground.

waltercool3 years ago(+2)(-4)

Hey, thanks for the response!

I agree, elves been part of the "game topic" just like the "androids", but it felts like some characters and overall history changed way too much at last updates and doesn't fit them too much with previous narrative.

Lin for example, in very short time went from a submissive maid who was okay with "their reality", to a character who's mostly accusing everyone of elfphobes with inner hate. For Nia felts natural as her background is consistent.

As said before, I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but felts like the game is losing the "dating sim" thematic but becoming more like an action visual novel in order to achieve deep immersion on the main topics.

Hope my comment doesn't sound bad, my only intention is to give a constructive feedback :-)

LunarD3ATH3 years ago(+1)(-5)

I agree with you. It's not to be rude, only constructive, but the whole story isn't very interesting to me and in particular takes me out of it.

I'd much rather have more of a personal focus on Lin and her life than a wider focus on elves as a whole. That feels like it should be something optional, not the only way to further her story.

RuneyGames3 years ago(+5)(-1)

You did experience a story about Lin's personal life. That was the first parts of her story until recently. You've grown her into a good cook, she's fairly independent now, she's not so shy and is even the boss of the kitchen, her insecurities have been fixed and she's found the one person she wants to spend the rest of her life with. The only thing she wants now is a child with the MC, which she refuses to do unless that child will be treated equally.

If you don't want a serious story, this game isn't for you.

LunarD3ATH3 years ago(-11)

I was worried you'd respond like this. Your inability to take criticism isn't a good look for you. You don't have to agree, you certainly don't have to change your game for it, but if the best response you can give to my criticism is "if you don't want a serious story, this game isn't for you" about a game that's literally just based on fucking a bunch of women at once, you have something seriously disconnected in your brain.

You are not writing classical literature here, you're writing smut. I'm not criticizing that, I'm playing the smut like everyone else here, but you need some perspective desperately.

RuneyGames3 years ago(+6)

From a poll I did the other day for Harem Hotel

RuneyGames3 years ago(+4)(-1)

Lin was only okay with you being her master because you've been the best master she's ever had. MC treats Lin very equal and helps her with almost anything she needs.

Once Lin fell in love with MC, she said she would like to have a child with him, but she would never want to bring a half elf into this world because they have no rights. This happened quite a while ago, it was in the background because the focus was on her character (learning about her, fixing her, unlocking sex, etc). The slavery aspect of the world is in the foreground now because this is one of the last problems she has to deal with, but it's also one of the hardest. The rest I mentioned above has largely been solved and there's no point in going over the same story points over and over again.

Lin has never accused anyone of being an "elfphobe", I don't know where you're getting this.

Harem Hotel has never been only a dating sim. As it says in the description of this game: "Upgrade your hotel, build friendships with them, follow their stories, and train them."

While it certainly has dating sim themes, and will continue to have them, my goal for this game is more than just meeting a girl, fucking her, marrying her, and seeing the end screen.

Harem Hotel is a lot of things. Thematically it's a fantasy contemporary sci fi. Some events like Ashley's are emotional, some like Nia's are action packed. In the end, what this is, is my story.

LunarD3ATH3 years ago(+1)(-5)

I think the problem isn't that you're addressing the whole "slavery" thing, so much as making it a big part of her story. It's more than a little unbelievable that you and Lin are going to change history, not to mention a bit much for the focus of the game: a harem hotel.

I don't mean to be overly critical, but the story with Lin makes me want to approach it less because it gets to be a little overwhelming, when I'd rather just focus on her individual life and not the lives of every single elf in the game and how we can save them.

I mean this is a game where you're basically just getting your rocks off with every grown woman that walks into the hotel, it just seems like the focus should be a little less... revolutionary.

RuneyGames3 years ago(+6)(-1)

The focus of Harem Hotel has never only been "a hotel full of women you can fuck". That's certainly a part of it, but if you just want a fluffy game about anime women who are a bit too perfect there are plenty of games like that for you.

I have an interest in sociology, geography, politics, mental disorders, and the other themes you see in game. I don't want to make a game only about tits and ass, that's boring.

MC and Lin could never change history, that's in the past. Assuming you mean change Syl'anar, or the world, Lin and MC could never do that alone.

I've responded to this point in another comment, but focusing on her individual life happened a ton already. You will still definitely get to have 1 on 1 time with all of the characters, but there is a story to this game.

If you want tits and ass, go to pornhub.

LunarD3ATH3 years ago(+1)(-9)

"The focus of Harem Hotel has never only been a hotel full of women you can fuck."

Oh dear god, you're delusional. It's a fucking porno game and it's named "Harem Hotel", how disconnected from reality are you that you don't see what you're making here?

"If you want tits and ass, go to pornhub."

I said I wanted more of a personal story, but do you actually think what you made here is anything other than a porno game? Really, are you actually this deluded? Take a look at yourself. You didn't use Honey Select, a literal Japanese porno game, as the basis for your own game because it was convenient, you used it because you wanted to have tits and ass in your game.

You know what? I really don't have time for someone this laughably dense. If you want to be taken seriously, you should start by not making porno games. Nothing about your writing convinces me you understand reality, which is fine because that's not why anyone's here (and you know it), but I guess it was silly of me to think you had a brain in that thick skull of yours.

Maybe when you stop jerking off to your own ego and start jerking off to your own game you'll clear your head for a minute, reread what you just said to me and realize how utterly ridiculous of a person you are and make some changes.

Maybe your writing will vastly improve then, too.

Tiloleus3 years ago(-1)

It's not this serious. Both sides have said their piece. Lunar, I respect your opinion AND Runey's, however, no one is perfect. If this is Runey's first game, it's a hell of a start. If it isn't, there's still places to go. Neither of you are better than each other. Look everybody involved here is mature myself included and everyone else in this thread. But no offense Lunar, there's more to life than this game. I understand your criticisms and I understand Runey's defense of the game and story, but critiquing somebody for the way they critique your criticism, if that makes sense, isn't the way to go about it. Regardless how everyone here feels we can at least agree that the basis of the game itself is good. If you like the game that's fine if you like the story that's fine. At the bare minimum please at least respect what is trying to be done and the least you can do is tolerate the direction the story is going. Matter of fact, you don't even have to do that. It's great that you're sharing your opinion and as earlier stated both sides of this argument have been voiced I'm not trying to make myself up here more important or knowledgeable in this topic because I guarantee I'm not and I'm not taking anybody's side. I'm just simply saying whether you're for or against the storyline or theme or whatever, at least appreciate the basis of the game. If you're just here for the sex that's fine. If you're not that's cool too. I'm not trying to draw ira from anybody and I have respect for you as a commenter by voicing your opinion in the threat and I have respect for the Creator because this is their effort. I'm not expecting everybody to be kind on the internet to each other because in reality that's impossible. I think there is pretty much everything to be said about this discussion that there can be so maybe it would be in everyone's interest to just take a step back for a minute and you want to talk about it I'm sure there's someone out there that would be willing to talk to you about it. There's a whole discord for discussing this game after all. and look I know I don't normally comment on here and I apologize for this very long reply, but if anybody reading this manages to actually care enough to make it down this far, have a tolerable amount of respect and as said earlier everyone and everything has flaws however there are some situations where going to only pick out the bad things the situation won't work. I'm going to be completely honest Lunar, I agree with some of the things you're saying but implying ego mania and saying someone has a thick skull just because they don't necessarily see completely eye to eye doesn't make either side look like the better option. I'm not trying to hold a United Nations conference here only reason so long is cuz I have a lot to say. I was going to post earlier but I had hoped by now the discussion would fizzle out either one way or the other, but in the end discussions like this are fruitful and critique is a good thing most of the time. But again if you want somebody to accept your criticism with open arms you have to treat them as an equal and not talk down on them every time. It's okay to chide people for things but going out of your way to make someone look dumb doesn't help anybody whether you're in the right or the wrong. I know I have again no place in this because I didn't start this discussion I'm not the Creator and I'm sure as hell probably not going to end it with this but conversation is a lot more fruitful when everyone is treated as equals. Yes this has some things that could be better but I'd imagine relatively speaking we're not too far into the entirety of the story. I'm glad that your voice is being heard for better or worse and I'm sure somebody here is going to either agree or vehemently disagree with one or multiple things that I've said here at the end of the day if we can see eye to eye on at least one thing or if we wind up disagreeing but can be least a tad bit polite, then everyone would be better off. To close this out because I know this is going to be overlooked most likely because of its length, Lunar, it's great that you're so passionate about your side and Runey is defending the work because as a creator of content I'd imagine that whether it's your first project or your 100th project you're still equally as protective. I know there's a lot of things on this thread and this entire page in general that highlight both the good and the bad about this but at the end of the day we can't see what the other person is thinking we can't feel what they're feeling. I'm sorry if that's a dense or stupid thing to say but in all honesty nobody really knows how another person feels and if you're passionate in your criticism, then by all means, be critical but don't be overtly critical to where it feels like you can't find anything good to say. If you're going to defend it then defend it; you can't give everything you've got one way or the other. Everybody can go about their lives myself included and we need not worry because if you want to play keep playing if you don't want to that's fine too. If you want to criticize every update I'm sure you're going to get some flack by the end of the day you're just voicing your opinion on the internet.

As for Runey, I think this game is going really well so far and I'm really sorry that you're receiving hell from people in this thread. And I don't know if it means much to you because pretty much everything good about this game has been said and most of the stuff that people would find to criticize about has been said, but at the end of the day you're a great storyteller with a lot of places to go if you continue to hone your craft and you're obviously great at designing games so seeing those two mesh is incredible especially in this way. As stated above I don't know how far into the "entire story" we are but it's nice to see the engine metaphorically get going and I await the surprises that I'm sure going to be here and things we may already know. Keep being you and I don't know if you've already been told this, but please continue making the game the way you want to make it. It's okay to listen to the fans but I pray that you don't go the route of some other game developers and give pieces of your soul just to listen to the people the play your game. I'll be honest I know I've seen it said here before but I came for the sex stayed for the story and both are equally as important and impactful so far this game is made by you so the end of the day the only person that can truly influence how this game goes direction wise is you. I personally love the way you're taking criticism because you're trying to maintain neutral ground which I don't know you personally so I can't speak to if that's how you are about everything but I understand from a Creator standpoint how you kind of take things like this and it doesn't feel good to be insulted it never does but you should more so take a hell of a lot of pride in the things you've done right and after you prioritize that then look back on what people say could be done differently. Set timer again but you don't really have to listen to anybody on this game if you want to make the game based off only things you like I'll still play it and I'm sure a lot of people will too if you want to listen to us that's cool just keep the aspect of you in it as long as you continue to be a supportive and well-rounded content creator then myself and a lot of other people in this community will continue to support you because I mean this I appreciate everything you do and I'm sorry if this is getting to becoming a cheesy supporting the Creator and backing the origin moment but I feel that people just absolutely dumping on you and your game isn't the way to go and a lot of this disrespect and perceived disrespect is completely unjustified. I'll be the first to tell you I don't normally get involved in Internet discussions whether positive or negative but in this case I had to because I don't want to see anything happen to you or the content that you put out. Because again this may sound cheesy but remember you're human Runey, and your mental well-being is JUST AS important as any direction this story goes. If Lunar wants to criticize they have every right to obviously and I'm not telling you what should or shouldn't be done, but I'm sure you've learned by this and probably other examples that not everybody is always going to have nice things to say and trust me you see on Twitter and discord I'm sure and patreon and here on itch the good far outweighs the bad and I personally would like it to continue that way because I feel like at the root of it all you're kind-hearted human and you're probably putting a lot of your emotions and sentiments into this game to go along with your effort. If I ever met you in public I'd be sure to tell you face to face what a damn good job you've been doing.

RuneyGames3 years ago(+4)

From a poll I did a few days ago.

Tiloleus3 years ago(+3)

That one person's opinion is obviously in the minority, so we shan't dwell on it longer than necessary

Zexian Krutz3 years ago (1 edit) (+4)

Let me to disagree with you, guys, waltercool and LunarD3ATH. This part of the story is very important. Slavery and principles of slavery were introduced from the very begining. MC for a long time ignored that fact and enjoyed his life as hotel manager. But this cant be ignored for all time. As a result, we have Maria story. Also, Cornwall have a possibility to recall slave ownership from any slaver at any time. Ok, lets imagine that Maria's story doesnt bring any sense to MC mind. What can happen next? Cornwall already have very strong antipathy against MC because of some incidents. Eventualy he will find that MC now own Sylvia. She is a running slave of Cornwall. How do you think what he will do. Easy, Cornwall will recall all slaves from MC: Lin, Sylvia, Nia and even Maria now. Plus, there is Ashley and her DNA never was confirmed for sure... who knows, maybe she is half-elf too. Do you realy think that MC can continue to ignore these possibilities and agree with everything that politicians will bring to him? Will he agree with losing Lin and Maria forever just because Cornwall has decided so? I dont think so.

Slavery problem has been bringed to light and now all main characters must do something with this. And, after all, MC and Lin are not the only people who are fighting against that sistem. Sooner or later there will be more. Revolutions doesnt begin randomly eventualy, someone must begin to do something and then many others will join.

Yes, this game has been created just as a porn game. But after all creator included some very strong story lines and now these lines must be somehow bringed to an logical end. Such logical event is revolution.

P.S. I know that my English is not perfect, so Im sorry for this.

Phoenix3 years ago(+5)

This. Slavery was a core theme from the get-go, and most of the characters we meet are directly involved in it, whether one side or the other. The outcome of potential liberation effects so many main, side, background characters and even us the player, as well as the world the game takes place in.

Just because wandering into the shower one morning and boning whoever's there because you're horny isn't related to slavery, doesn't mean the game is separated from the story.

ad240pCharlie3 years ago(+3)

I can understand the point that waltercool and LunarD3ATH are making, but I still agree with you. The direction the story ended up taking was certainly not something I would've expected at the start, and I can see how some people might be disapponted by that particular storyline getting so much focus in a game like this.

Making a game about a harem hotel, if the interactions with cute girls and sex scenes were all the game had to offer, would get a bit boring after a while so some more emotional and engaging content will be necessary if the game is gonna be as long as it currently is. Lots of great VNs end up including that kind of "surprise plotlines", Lucky Paradox and Once in a lifetime are two that come to mind for example.

And the idea of the revolution being started by someone who's just an immigrant hotel manager is probably the most fascinating part to me, and there are examples in history of social change being accomplished despite the movement being started by "nobodies" so it's not that far-fetched as one might think.

RuneyGames3 years ago (2 edits) (+7)

When I first created Harem Hotel, I wasn't sure where this game would go, or even what skills I had. In my mind, before I released v0.1, this was mainly going to be a game about tits and ass. I quickly realized I liked making story though, and realized I was getting a lot of compliments on the story so I decided to focus on that.

If this game were just about interacting with the characters, and the end goal was to impregnate them and marry them, I could have ended this game by now. So I agree that it would get a bit boring. Instead, I'd like to make an interesting somewhat serious story and I'm so happy people are enjoying it, the growth has been insane :)

I'm glad you like that premise!

ad240pCharlie3 years ago(+2)

Every sort of criticism is obviously going to be subjective to some degree, but it seems like a lot of people sometimes forget what "constructive criticism" actually means. It isn't just expressing your opinion in a polite manner, it's explaining WHY you think the way you do.

In a political debate, you can't just calmly claim that your opponent is wrong without providing EVIDENCE for it. Then you have to agree on what the goal of the political issue is and how "success" should be measured, otherwise you'd just be going back and forth. In a book, movie, game and any sort of narrative story, the "goal" of it is to reach what the creator intended, and the "success" is measured through how well that is being delivered to the consumer. If the criticism is "I don't like this kind of content, the game should be different", then that's certainly a fair opinion but it's not constructive. However, saying "If this is what you want out of the story, then maybe this narrative structure, this pacing, this scene or this way of doing it wasn't the best, and here's why it doesn't work!"

You need a perimeter from which to measure the the success of the story, and that perimeter should always be what the creator wanted out of it. You may not like what that vision was, and that's fine.

Let's take a different criticism. "I feel like this new update was a bit too heavily focused on the serious aspects of the story, and it felt like it could've done better with a little bit more lighthearted content to balance out the emotional scenes. It would give the player some time to take in what they just read and get them mentally ready for the next heavy parts." I may not actually agree with that particular criticism myself, but it's articulated in such a way that it takes what the point of the entire work is and what the writer wants and gives a suggestion on how that goal could've been reached more effectively.

To sum it up, every criticism is going to be somewhat subjective but the point of CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is to make is as LEAST subjective as possible, by everyone agreeing on certain guidelines and measurements from which to approach it.

waltercool3 years ago (1 edit) (+3)(-1)

100% agree on that, and reason why I made my feedback.

Never said it was a wrong or bad decision. That strategy may work for some people, it may not for others.

I just gave an opinion, as a player. For the developer is always nice to have feedback if what you are doing is good or not for users.

My intention isn't to generate a whole debate, blame the developer or anything like that.

RuneyGames3 years ago (2 edits) (+4)

I appreciate the feedback, and I really appreciate you being coherent and honest. (Apologies for the other guy, I probably shouldn't have responded to him in the first place) As you could probably tell, your opinion was not very popular indeed, haha. (I didn't downvote you)

Lin is only one character though, the story isn't about an elvish revolution specifically. There's been 3 in the past, I could have covered one of those if that were the case.

I don't want to blatantly spoil something as big as the end goal yet since this game is still a work in progress, but you may be able to guess. This world oppresses all sorts of people, not just elves or half elves.

Elves are a big part of this game though, I won't lie. And the land of Syl'anar. It's sort of this fantasy continent on an otherwise earth-like planet. I thought I could do some fun things with that while being inspired by the real world.

Lucky193 years ago(+1)

Just as an idea, the shift in tone might be less jarring if the Lin, Savior of Elfkind storyline were locked behind the current Maria sucker punch storyline. It's not perfect, but it does provide a "well, yeah, they *would* try to do something after that". Though I don't know if would interfere with other things you have planned... On the plus side, it shouldn't break save compatibility.

I have been told that most people don't seem to find it quite as abrupt a shift as I did, however, so... YMMV.

RuneyGames3 years ago(+3)

Exactly this!

MC enjoys fixing these broken girls and helping them through their life. Most issues that the first floor cast had in their personal lives has been fixed, except a major common thread they all have. That being the horrible world they live in. The system hurts each of them in one way or another, and this isn't something they can fix individually or even with just MC's help. Instead they need to group up and make change.

Zexian Krutz3 years ago (1 edit) (+3)

This serious part of the game is what I enjoy in your game the most. There is not just "a hotel full of dolls for sex". Every girl have her background, her story and heavy problems. Every girl diceded to stay in hotel because of very serious reasons. And, ofcourse, when I play I can associate myself with MC only because he realy cares about these girls and trying to help them in any possible way, trying to give them hope for the future and protect them, he took a full responsibility about those, who decided to stay in his hotel... even elfs who kidnaped him - they asked MC for help and this was enough for him to help. "How many laws I already broke?!" he asks... and still he is ready to do even more.

Thank you again for this amazing story! This is realy a shame that I cant support you with money. I want, but I cant... But still, Im looking forward for future updates to enjoy the story you will create :)

waltercool3 years ago(+4)

It's okay to disagree, no worries. I just gave an opinion, never intended to make my opinion as statement.

My critic was related about how the game dynamics changed on last updates from a "sim date" relationship game, into a world-issue/conflict, which sounds more like an action-based history. Assaulting, murdering or overall violence part doesn't make much sense if you consider the whole Player personality, who is clearly not a conflictive guy.

And I must disagree with you on the porn part. Not everyone plays date sim NSFW games for just "porn part". Otherwise we wouldn't be discussing about the "history part" lol.

It's okay if the dev wants this way, it's just a feedback. Zero intentions to start a blame war or anything else. If I'm playing a nice game, it's fair as users to provide a feedback when you consider something is feels off.

Tiloleus3 years ago(+2)

This through and through. I read through and understand where everyone is coming from

Zexian Krutz3 years ago(+2)

Ofcourse I dont blame you for your opinion. Everyone is free to tell what he wants... wtf, we are here on this site because we are perverts who masking theyr real names and looks to be free in our opinions :D

Sorry if I made you feel bad, this wasnt my goal.

itch.io

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