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COMMENTS FOR NEXT TOY BOX JAM? Sticky

A topic by ThatTomHall created Jan 02, 2020 Views: 384 Replies: 23
Viewing posts 1 to 10
Host

Hey, what did you like or not like about Toy Box Jam? How can I improve it for next time? What did you really enjoy?

Let me know! Thanks!

Submitted (1 edit) (+1)

Hello, happy new year and thanks for the awesome jam! 


There wasn't anything, in particular, that  I didn't like or would prefer done differently, though this may be due to my inexperience/first time participating in a jam.  What I really enjoyed was the whole backstory and puzzles of Max Tojoby, a lot of "Ready player one" vibes which made the jam very exciting. I literally refreshed, zoomed in and out and inspected the source of "WATCH THIS SPACE" every day of the jam and tbh even now, I still feel like there's more to investigate, secret puzzles to solve. Or I'm just thinking way too much out of the toybox :)
Looking forward to even more!

Host

Thanks....!  Your watchfulness might be rewarded slightly if you keep checking... ;)

I didn't make the ARG too deep as a) wasn't sure folks would be into it... and b) didn't want people to be working on solving it for too long instead of making a game!

Host

Your vigilance will be rewarded. :)

Submitted(+1)

Happy new year !

I really liked the idea. Everything has been done well. The demos were enjoyable. The assets were cool.

The only thing I didn't like is the use of one graphic page for the custom font. I would prefer all the pages with sprites.

Thanks for this good jam.

Host

Thanks! Ah yeah, early on, was trying to have a choice between map, font, and sprites without being able to move them but I went and added new rules later.... good point for the next one!

Submitted (1 edit) (+1)

Happy new year to everyone!

This is my first jam experience and I must tell it was a pleasant one. The assets were spot I mean.. I saw entries with flying cheese, combined sprites and all kind of genres were implemented. This is nice.

The backstory was a nice touch. I did solve one of the mysteries, but then I felt I was investing in it too much and proceeded with the actual production.

The only thing that I couldn鈥檛 get was how the entries were added to the launcher: a couple of words in the jam description could be useful next time. Anyway you were very supportive and that was nice too.

Thank you for the jam and hope to join to the next ones ;)

Host

Thanks much!  This was my first launcher ever, so didn't know if it was gonna be a webpage or a cart until just before the end of the jam. This seemed to work out, so I will use a similar thing next time, with instructions at the start.  Thanks!

I jumped in late to the jam but still wanted to code a fresh submission. I was intimidated by the number of rules on the jam page. I think many people (although not me in this case) just want to join game jams simply to submit things they've been working on, for exposure and feedback, which they don't otherwise have a venue for. This was my experience running another literal no-effort jam over the holidays. You might get more submissions and random enthusiasm if you made the rules more minimalist. However, then submissions might feel less relevant and thus undesirable -- not sure how you'd feel about that possibility.

This being said, I think the rules all make sense, and synergize well with the provided code/assets/theming. I plan to continue to use the democart as a reference point. My suggestion would be that, while listing the rules against a bright red [delightfully festive!] backdrop, add lots more pictures. Pixel art is one of the best languages around, I find. Add a blown up image of the spritesheet on the jam page, "ONLY use THESE SPRITES," could do the same for the soundwaves ("ONLY use THESE COOL TRACKS by THIS COOL PERSON!") -- then potential jammers see they have an opportunity to use really awesome assets from a supporting community, instead of feeling like are prohibited into following rules. 

Positive psychology! Holiday cheer! Fine print can always go lower down on the page :)

Another thought -- I don't do many jams, but maybe themes weren't necessary? I think a more elegant solution would be to let the sprites and assets guide the theming. It felt like they really wanted to! Sometime prompts are inspiring, but this jam had so much goodness that I just found myself trying to make my code fit one of the themes at the last minute.

But now I'm not entirely sure of these suggestions. The jam seemed to want to appeal to both new programmers (being in P8 and having lots of easy-to-start assets) as well as more experienced ones (given the complexity of some of the code and associated community). In this sense, I think it succeeds very well. The assets, mystery content, and retro appeal definitely bridge those two groups. Maybe put even more links to PICO-8 communities (Discord, BBS) on the jam page? With big PICO-8 style pixel art buttons that beg to be clicked?

All that said, this jam was really fun to follow and incredibly well thought-out in its metagame and theming. Would be great to see it get bigger and/or better next year

馃巵

Host

Thanks for all the detailed feedback!  Appreciate it since it's my first public jam. :)

Submitted(+1)

We are still in the thick of it, IMO, so I may have more suggestions, but these have jumped out at me so far.

  • Most importantly, the overall idea (provided assets) and timeline (2 weeks over holiday) were SPOT ON. I have 2 young kids and am busy at work, so I don't jam as much as I want (hard to tell my wife I'm gonna hole up all weekend and code), so I really loved getting a jump start and having 2 weeks.
  • Sprites. I overall liked the sprites provided, but I thought a lot of them were a little too gimicky with pal() switches. I don't think I've seen a single game implement the spinny wheel or the animated character. I think they are cool ways to use pico8, but they kind of pigeon-hole how they are meant to be used.
  • Sprites again. This is a personal preference, but I thought a lot of them were a little too detailed for their own good, like the insect or ninjoe. I kind of get a headache looking at Ninjoe and how much subtle detail is crammed into 8x8. 
  • One more on sprites. I would have preferred 4 characters with 6-8 frames each than Ninjoe having so many frames. I think variety is better than depth. However, i can also hear the argument that having 1 major character unifies the jam a bit. I dunno, this is all opinion.
  • Themes. I don't think we need them. The mystery and the toybox were enough.
  • In contrast to comments above, i liked having the font (AND THE FUNCTIONS TO USE THEM!!!) I thought this unified the games a bit visually.
  • Music. I think it was great, but everyone more or less just used it as is. If someone could write functions in the democart on how to customize music (slow down, transpose, remove channels, etc), that could inspire more innovation.
  • Max's mystery. This is definitely my opnion - I liked it, but I did not have enough time to make my game and work on it. I still haven't solved anything. I'm not crazy about the idea of locking assets behind it. My hot take is that the mystery is good, but I would hide something else besides assets behind the solution.

Left field suggestions/ thoughts:

  • It was a sort-of-smallish crowd who jammed - it would be fun to do a community event of some sort. A stream, a chat? 2 weeks allows for multiple chances. 
  • I think the jam should get opened outside pico-8, unless there are reasons against it I am not privy to. If there were a community dropbox of sorts where volunteers could port the assets (to tic80 for eg) that would be cool. This is harder for sfx and music, but im not crazy about locking a jam behind closed source SW.

Lastly - thanks, Tom, for liking stuff on Twitter and being present on itch and the BBS. it is very validating to have someone like you comment on something.

Thanks for organizing! I loved it! I love creating and I need a kick to do it sometimes.

-PB

Submitted

I have participated in few jams in the past and I must say this one was one of the best or at least the most special one for me!

THINGS I LIKED:

  • Premade assets & 2 weeks of holiday time was perfect! Some of us have a limited time and having assets ready with that jam duration it allows us to participate. And what a better time than through the holidays.
  • Usually jams are not that limited but having Pico-8 as an only options was a great choice in my opinion because entries and the whole jam have a coherent theme & feel.
  • Mystery of the jam is one of the things I loved the most! I wasn't expecting new assets after solving one so I was positively surprised. In the future I would love to see more layers added to the mystery and with it more secret assets.
  • Big plus for constant feedback from your side and for being active on Twitter & Forums! It feels great to see Jam host being active :)

SUGGESTIONS:

  • The only thing that could be improved is the jam/rules page. Overall there was just too much text and after reading it some things still weren't 100% sure. Maybe more visual examples would be good (eg. what kind of sprite changes are allowed etc.). Less text and more visual presentation?


Overall, ToyBoxJam Jam made my holidays even more special because it touched the kid in me with the whole Mystery & Toys (available assets, Pico-8 tool) things.
Really good job on your first Jam as a host! Looking forward to the future ToyBoxJams ;)

Host (3 edits)

Thanks for the comments, Blody!  Glad you dug it all.

Yeah, thanks for appreciating the Twitter/site comments ... tried to stay on top of it!

Yeah the rules were too much.  Will try to be more visual and clear! Thanks!

Host (1 edit)

Thanks for all the input, Palo!

Palette Anims: I understand the palette changers seem high-maintenance.... The rules stated that you could copy the sprites and change them in any way that PAL and PALT could change them, so even if you didn't animate them that way, you could store out the frames and change them as if you did.  This was all based on trying to cram all possible games into ONE spritesheet. If/when I do the next one, I will just provide more than one cart for the assets, but that was the artifice.  It got like a dozen more other variety sprites from that. Also, there weren't that many palette animating sprites, really. More of "a variety-based thing to try if you want".  But I totally get they may have seems daunting and/or impractical.

Too detailed: Yeah, I tried to strike a balance between representational or monochrome/recolor me sprites, also just used ones I had lying around.  I decided to focus on a main character with TONS of animations, to see all the different ways people might use the same character.  Some uses were great, but one problem with that is platformers can be hard to make!  So then that's half a sprite page that a few people used. Will have more characters next time.

ARG: The mystery is VERY LIGHT (some people solved it within an hour) and just meant for interest. The added assets aren't that much really. Again, tried to have it as an interesting facet. Some folks dug it, some didn't.  But it didn't much affect the games, really.  I will probably do it again, I just like little mysteries.

Music: okay, I barely understand music, but if other people do and have ideas how to change it other than "have more available", I'm all ears.  But that was just generosity on Gruber's part.  Lafolie made a bunch of sounds.  I think actually the sounds were too limited probably.

Outside of Pico-8: was intending to do that, but ran outta time. Also, I kinda really like having a launcher, so we'll see!

Outreach: Yeah, that would be good. I wanted this first public jam I ran to be cozy so it wouldn't be a ton of maintenance, and well, I could make mistakes and learn before I did a BIG jam. I did try to advertise it a bit myself and such, but any bigger and it might've been too much.

Anyway, thanks again, for the input, will think about it all for next time!

Submitted(+1)

Thanks for getting back! I hope i didn't come across as too critical - honestly if the exact same event happens next year I'll be very happy, but I figured I would provide some feedback.

Will you be looking for help next year? Rather than just me complaining, I would like to help out with some of these things. Some things I could do:

  • I'm not GREAT with music, but I can take an action to provide functions to modify the songs.
  • Do we maybe want a github account and a github personal page for the jam? The github personal page could act as a "launcher" if we open to other engines. I could do this as well. I would be happy to work on this! Having a github repo per year would also be a nice way to store the materials.
    • The more i talk about github the more i like it. Do I have your permission to set up a repo for jam #1? Maybe we would want to do it next year.

Anyways, this is all to say, i would love to help out next year. Cheers!

-PB

Host (1 edit)

Yeah, no problem, I am weighing all opinions with my own. Want it to be the best possible Jam for folks!

Pretty good idea -- I have a Github account, I can just make a directory for it, yah?  I just fixed the dumb ice tile.

I wouldn't mind help for sure, but I'd prefer to be the source of the data storage, cuz life can be crazy.

Now that people have liked it, will make it more epic for next time.

One big help might be better support routines -- would like some not-obscurely-coded easing functions, score counter that supports < 32K,  and so on....

Submitted

Happy to start cracking on some support routines.

One last idle thought... it seems like with the support routines you are chasing after beginner-level participants. Would they be served well by individual demo carts? 

I'll admit that I had a bit of a tough time following the code in the demo cart, as it was easy to get a little lost in the transitions. What if there were, for instance, a NINJOE.P8 which actually implemented the character in a barebones platformer, so folks could just design levels and tweak values? Or a RPG.P8, MATCH3.P8, etc. I could work on one of these as well.

Thanks again!

Host

Yeah you are gettin' ahead of me -- exactly what I was planning!  Great minds think alike!

I wanted one general routines cart, then a few carts as you describe. ;^) 

This is the list I had so far for Optional Toy Box Jam Code:

-- color font print routines (with top/bottom colorizable borders&background, without borders but colorizable background, or just font with drop shadow), big print version of same

--print Pico font with outline

--simple collision

--simple colorizable windows

--starfield with depth and direction

-- ASC(same as ORD) and CHR ASCII number to character and back routines

--Particles

--Easing functions

--progress meter routine

--double-size sprite routine drawing

— screen shake

— printc

— distance between points (with safe SQRT)

—-trifill etc

— POKEd proportional font

-- > 10000 score meter

Let me know if you see basic things that would be helpful.....

Submitted

These would be all great and if possible, I would like to see a simple highscore system or at least a sample code for storing the highest score.

Host

Oh yeah! (Maybe even simple entering initials, hmm.)

Submitted(+1)

That's a bonus, I didn't want to come out too demanding ;)

Host

Yeah, well, for TBJ maybe just the score.... trying to build up a personal library too....

Submitted (1 edit)

I really liked this jam. It's the first game jam I've seen that's focused on using the same pre-made assets for everyone who enters, which makes the jam pretty unique. I thought the variety of the assets was pretty good. There's just enough variety that you have a choice of either using them the way they were most likely intended, or combining them and picking apart the assets in interesting ways. The functions available in the carts were also really helpful.

I personally liked the mystery and the rewards from it, which gave me new ideas for what to make (although I ended up not having enough time to use them).

I think instead of multiple themes, there could maybe be one theme based on the mystery itself, so how much does a game reference or build off of the mystery. Just an idea.

The rules could be a bit more clear on what you're allowed to change after submission, like if game-breaking bugs or typos can be fixed.

I'm looking forward to seeing another jam like this one!

Host

Good feedback, thanks!

A mystery-oriented theme is a good idea! I just put those there since someone said they like having optional themes just in case they can't think of anything, to get them going. But that is a good "this jam only" focusing idea.

I think I may loosen the rules though some folks love them -- or have "styles" of jam like the Ludum Dare's compo vs normal entry.  Also I may add more of the intended support routines (I cut 4-5 due to time).