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The benefits (and pitfalls) of playtesting

A topic by TheMetalCarrotDev created Jun 24, 2024 Views: 366 Replies: 6
Viewing posts 1 to 4
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I've both made games where I tried to get extensive player feedback, such as large playtest sessions - and games where I didn't specifically seek it out. I won't talk about specific feedbacks or specific playtesters or specific cases, just the broader picture. I also think it'd be better if we stick to talking about that, and not talking about specific people or individual grievances. So during the time of playtesting, I've noticed two different kinds of feedback:

1. Feedback that will universally make your game better

Feedback about controls, bugs, other issues, that weren't meant to be part of the gameplay experience.

2. Feedback about making your game fit within other titles of the same genre better

I consider this feedback a little bit more risky to listen to. Sometimes, it can result in a better game. Other times, it can make your game feel less inspired (in my personal opinion).

Other notes:

I feel like when it comes to feedback, there's a balance to achieve. I want to listen to feedback to a certain extent, especially in cases where a person might have bought a copy of my game and gone that extra mile. And yet, if there's any way around it, I no longer try to get large groups of playtesters together, because I feel that in the process of listening to 100 pages of feedback, some of which might be from FPS gamers when your game is a puzzle game or platformer - well I feel that in that process, sometimes the original meaning of the game gets lost.

So I think if you're going to schedule a playtest session, and it's not a huge game... you might be better off listening to a small group who understands your type of game, and a small group who doesn't in addition. But it can create an overload if you, on the contrary, take feedback from 20-100+ people, and try to incorporate most of it. I don't always feel it results in a better game to do it that way.

On the other hand, I will list a positive of receiving feedback:

It's that I think it can keep you a good game designer. It won't teach you talent, but with the right feedback, you can implement some other's suggestions in a test copy, and see if other people like your way of doing things better, or the playtesters' way. And I actually feel that when you get to the point where you've mastered enough, where you no longer benefit from people teaching you and "your way" of doing things is actually seen as better... I feel you've truly become a pretty good game designer. Though, I'd still keep a few playtesters just in case.

Disclaimer: These are just my thoughts and experiences. I am not an expert, and I feel I'm better at some things than others.

....Overall though, I am thankful for the feedback I've received.....

How about you? Do you think playtesting has made you into a better game designer?

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Nowadays my two 'anchors' for handling feedback are the following:

1. Know what you yourself want to do and how you want to do it. Only you yourself can know that, and it is understandable that you have a vision about your project and how much changes you want/plan/can implement

2. That being said, the surroundings and 'how it goes' are quite important. You always should be open to feedback, and (at first) not even limit yourself too much in your own beliefs. There are always things you may have not considered, and you can always improve or take a chance that made itself available

To give some more context: I am currently planning out the projects I want to do with what I am doing here. Granted, it is only a hobby for me - so you already have much more space to maneuvre and do your own thing (so keep that in mind). The reason why I am doing that is because I want a clear idea and plan going forward, as it feels right to me to do so. With this statement alone you would already have a lot of situations/personalities who would strongly disagree with you, however.

Based on that, I also know what I want to put into the games, and how receiving feedback will be able to shape this vision. And while this does not mean that you could not potentially still go a complete open way of re-designing everything as it comes along to make it a better game, it is not something that I plan to do, simply believing that I will get out something enjoyable the way I already planned to do it.

And those last scentences above are where it becomes tricky, because as you said yourself: You believe to have talent - and you should (no matter if you could improve). So handling feedback and the way you incorporate can/will always get tested by certain situations where people would like to have you do it different for one reason or the other. Because they want to see it made another way, because they think they are right, because they believe you are not caring for feedback otherwise. Again, it is not that they have to be wrong - they could have valid points. It is just that thinking feedback has to be 'this' or 'that' is a way too limited approach. Some people/environments understand this, and they do not mind how you do your work as long as it is good. Sometimes you find yourself in situations where you are constantly questioned about your way of doing it - and it does not always have to mean that your work is not good. It can be quite a variying experience.

That is why I believe the first point to be important: Know yourself what you want and how to handle it. Because then you can ask a lot of people for feedback and take everything as valid. No matter what group of players, no matter what they believe and what they are providing. Everything is valuable, and everything that is not for you -personally- - it is your job to remind you how you would like to handle it. You do not have to change your gameplay if you do not want, even if you got 100 reports about it. But you can look into all of them with an open mind to see if there is not still something in it that you could see a point in - and maybe even do change in your project - as long as you want to do it.

The second point is more versatile and objective(?): Your surroundings play an important role. If you know you have people that play your games who understand you and your work and how you want to incorporate feedback, you can either let more into your testing, or simply write out to them what your are looking for (and what not for example - can save them a lot of work if they know you do not want to check that specifically). Also - workload. As you said yourself, it can be daunting to go through so much feedback. It is totally valid to reduce the amount of testers (or give them clear directions) because of that. It just comes back to the question: Are you limiting it because of a realistic circumstance or because you do not want to handle it as described above?

About your points specifically:

1. Feedback that makes your game universally better

While I see where your are coming from here (and you are basically correct), do keep in mind that even these things can be subjective. Not everyone is bothered by the same control schemes, mechanics (technical aspects), and some (perhaps you yourself) see them as solid and an improvement. So even this feedback needs to be split up, theoretically.

2. Feedback to make the game fit better with others of the genre

Yes and no, based on what I described above. I am personally more in the 'Yes' team myself, as I do not like to do the same things over again just because 'they are part of the genre' based on what people feel it has to contain. A game is a game, it can be enjoyable (for some), no matter how it fits into a glove. That being said, if you are on a budget and have to make something that appeals, this thought process can break your neck if you strain too niche.

That being said, remember the point about being open for yourself: Maybe they do mention things that you can see improving your game, or that they have a point of your game missing something - even if you want to give a different experience. Or maybe even reading their feedback or their point for a game mechanic gives you an idea how to change it up and include something more unique into your project that still qualifies why people suggested it. It can potentially be a win for both sides.

Other notes:

Technically speaking: Even a fps player could potentially give you valid feedback. For example about controls and camere movement in your first-person-puzzle-explorer. But yes, it does make sense do keep in mind where they are coming from saying 'the game has not enough action for me'. Still, even that could be something: Want to include something more active in your game after reading this? It may not be enough for the fps gaming crowd, but it could benefit your game how you envision it and give others more enjoyment. Again, stay open and think around the initial point of the feedback. But yes, if you only have so much time, focusing your testing on a more limited group - based on what you want to achieve out of that testing (there can be different 'studies' you want to perform), can be important, too.

About the positive things:

Debatable. Depending on how you define 'teaching'. You cannot specifically learn every talent, that may be true. But executing said talent efficiently (and even that word is debatable in what it could mean) is an ongoing learning experience. You can always improve over time - based on the lessons you have learned - and how you handled them. Of course, we once again have the two sides of the coin here: Yes, you can already have talent. Your work could already be good. And then good old fps gamer (no offences meant, they have their valid interest and place as everyone else) comes around and says your game is 'not good' because you do not take their feedback and have nothing to show to prove them different. You know what is different when you have made a name for yourself? Your experience? Debatably.

Yes, of course you got more experience. But what would be the first thing people may say about your work at that point? 'Ah yes, the developer has made a name for themself, they handle feedback like -this-, and people like their work.' Great. It just shows how empty these arguments can (not have to) be. You can already make something decent. So stick to it. But be open to feedback. That is how it should be, I believe. Everything else is just making it bigger in your head than it has to be.

Now again, if you do this as a job and got stuck into a scenario where your game is not receiving the popularity it needs to, it can get limiting. That is why you often read about specific design choices made because of thinking processes you as a player would not have thought to be the reason of why the game came out as it did. Or why it was only like 'this', or not like 'that'. And then sometimes a game became a masterpiece specifically because of those limits, and sometimes it flopped. And the other way around, as well. Which only brings us back to the two points in the beginning: Know yourself, know your surroundings. If you know that and why you have to handle things the way you do, you can - at best - handle it and yourself as honest as possible and combine making something you would want to do with how it may has to be based on how it is (or can be, if you are open to it.)

In short: I basically agree with you a lot, so my rambling is more of giving it a bit more 'insight' from my point of view.

Deleted 166 days ago
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Something I've learned as an artist is to take a critic's expertise and possible bias into consideration when receiving feedback. It sounds like a similiar approach ought to be taken when getting feedback from play testers, especially with things that are inherently subjective.

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That can be useful. A playtester with more experience can often be more helpful.

I think my overall message though, was the same as a somewhat popular saying, it's "Too many cooks spoil the broth."

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You should also distinguish between someone testing the game and someone playing the game and giving feedback. It might look the same in some cases. But there is a fundamentally different approach and different expectations.

This also overlaps, when people play games they know are still in development.

Yep. True.

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Playtesting has certainly helped me get a new perspective on how other people build and design games, but in terms of what it means for my own project it is of limited use. I don't see a lot of ARPGs as compared to some other genres (e.g platformers, horror, cozy), and when offering my own critique I keep in mind the intention of the game as opposed to what I think it should be.

With playtester feedback, this has been stated already but it bears repeating - they are excellent at determining when there is a problem, but they are generally not good at determining what the fix should be. If your goal is to incorporate playtester feedback, then it's necessary to have a statistically valid sample to draw from. Where you hear the same complaints over and over is your clue as to where to go, but that doesn't mean that what they suggest is the right course of action.

I also keep in mind the intended audience for my game. ARPGs appeal to a certain crowd, and some complaints I've received are the result of the player not being my intended audience - a good example is in the difficulty. I certainly want my game to be enjoyable, but it is meant to be challenging much like the RPGs of old. Now if that challenge comes from unfair mechanics or bad controls, then that's very different than the challenge coming from the nature of the game itself. One is a problem to be solved, while the other is the product of player subjectivity.

When I do my own reviews, I will sometimes let the developer know if I am their intended audience or not. If it's a genre of game I don't care for, then I will often restrict my feedback to the more technical/mechanical parts of the game. I don't want the developers to think they should chase the opinions of people who won't ultimately play their game, but I do want them to hear feedback from another game developer who understands that side of the process.

Basically, be receptive to feedback and don't get defensive when you get it, but evaluate it holistically. We have our own preferences and biases, and nothing a player says should be taken as gospel. They are just data points, and it's up to you to determine how to interpret and act upon them.