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Love the conversations we have :)

One of the objectives of this game is to raise curiosity about old times and old texts. The fact that you decided to read more about ancient Greece makes me truly happy!

Snow in Alexandria? That I didn't know!

I am not truly a historian, just a social scientist (versed in economics and politics). But I do love history! Usually, when I am making the art for the game, I am listening to a history podcast. 

What do you mean by methodology?

I was in Canada for Xmas and NYE! It did snow in Toronto and Montreal, but in Toronto it melted a week later.

I have never been to Greece either, but I am planning a huge, slow, backpacking trip there!

First of all: thank you so much for saying it has come a long way! Coming from you, who have been following the project for the longest time, it means a lot!

With regards to the coldness/snow: I did a research on this. It can snow pretty much everywhere in Greece, though it is not common in the southern parts, where the climate is truly mediterranean. On the northern parts of Greece, however, it does snow pretty much every winter and even multiple times per year. 

In a previous devlog, I mentioned that game story is located in northern Greece, in Thrace. The city is inspired in ancient Maronesia, not far from modern day Alexandropolis. Here are some images of that city under snow.

Apparently, Alexandropolis experiences snow multiple times per winter, but usually it melts quickly. Unfortunately, I couldn't animate it well if the snow were to melt quickly, because only have 36 frames. If I was to represent snow melting in lwess than 10 days, the snow would only appear in a single frame and that would make for a horrible animation. I thus decided to allocate 100 days for the snow to melt, 10 frames, clearly departing from reality.

Perhaps it was colder there 2400 years ago? I don't know!

Nice game concept!

My king, thanks for visiting us again! Your opinion is much appreciated. I am truly glad you liked it!

So you "like the land" but not so much "the people"... Is that a veiled threat of conquering and colonizing our lands? I hope not. It is well established by Pericles that citizens of democratic cities fight better than anyone else. Beware!

Jokes aside, the characters are not final, but are currently being developed by our character artist, Andrea Yepez. I expect to present some of them soon. I put them on the scene just to get the proportions right and to give off the feeling of a "fight".

Indeed, I expect the devlogs to intensify soon, as some art assets mature and my day job vacations begin.  

Cheers!

That is sweet to know! I am currently working to make this a real game, check out my devlog!

Thanks, Ghost, these are really useful comments :) Thank you a lot for taking the time not only to watch the video but also writing this up. 

Here are some thoughts on each of them, in reverse order :)

4- Your last comment is so helpful :). It is amazing how a creator (in this case, me) may fail to notice gaps in their narrative. I must explain in the animation that the rise in inequality meant a new oligarch class emerged. 

3- No doubt there will be a skip option.

2- Yeah, I will check out if there is any support for the greek animation. If there 5s no support, I will drop that idea.

1- The art needs tons of work, for sure!!! The current art there is just what I could do myself in 5 days of work. I want to get these animations perfected in terms of narrative before commissioning the final art.

Again, big thanks for sharing your thoughts :)

If I can ask one thing more, though... what are the other things that were "good work"? The narrative works for you? Or what else?

Man, that is a true show of interest :) Thank you a lot! For some reason I am not been able to open it, there comes an error "This track was not found. Maybe it has been removed"... is it some cookie thing on my part, or could it be that this song is currently not made public?

As long as you remain a foreign in these lands, we consider it a privilege to host you, my King :)

I agree they saw gods/myths as reality, particularly up to the 4th century BCE, when traveling around started to shake some beliefs out of them, and some new philosophies proposed a much reduced role for gods or unified them in a single force. But the game is focused on a single book from Plato's Republic. I don't want to add anything else, even if it would be realistic for the time the game is happening, in order not to distract from the main goal. 

With regards to the female character... I don't think she would die immediately, she would instead be unable to succeed in politics. Maybe she would become the local oracle I mentioned somewhere else in the game comments. 

Let's call her Lysistrata. I am thinking that, if you choose female, you become Lysistrata, a philosopher/diviner, but not a politician, and the game ends in frustration. If you chose a male character, you will encounter Lysistrata as a NPC. Maybe Lysistrata would actually know Socrates' philosophy, and annoy the male main character for being a tyrant in the making. 

I do agree with you, there should be many paths towards victory. I do wish I had enough resources to make something really awesome: to create two alternative victory paths, one in which you reinstate the oligarchy (you win but the people lose) and one in which you reinstate the aristocracy (all win, according to Socrates). I am sure that I do not have the resources to do that as of yet, because each path would lead to at least 25% more cost and time, and I don't have those resources. But you are right: all initial conditions of the male character should be able to arrive at a victory, perhaps through a different path and with more effort and luck. 

Cheers,

Pedro

Hi there, my King! Be welcomed in our humble democratic polis...

I am planning on some character customization! Nice that you thought that too! I will be frugal on changing the appearance of the character, because our artist is already very busy. She is a student and will only be able to dedicate 240 hours to the project this year.

I am more excited on customizing the character's abilities/story, as you also mentioned. I didn't think about noble/rich versus middle class or poor, but now that you mention it... this is actually a great idea. In book 8 of Plato's Republic, Socrates seems to be talking about an upper middle class citizen, as he (1) can pretend to be from the people but at the same time (2) had enough resources to live a bohemian lifestyle and be educated by a sophist. I therefore can imagine some advantages of being rich: the character can promote more parties to obtain more happiness, and perhaps is able to perform some tasks with his own money instead of been corrupt. However, a rich character may get unhappy when expropriating the rich, because he identifies with them and/or is friends with them. He may also be less popular, and his threat to expropriate, less credible. So, thanks for this idea; it can totally fit the game.

I was thinking about three other customizations: 

1. Gender: male or female. If the player chooses female... the player will lose the game immediately, prompting an ending expressing how sexist greek society was back then. I think that is funny, will require few resources, and will not be seen as sexist on my part. If the character is male, the game continues. 
2. Whether the character is frugal/disciplined or compulsive (may look for better words). According to Socrates, the democratic man is compulsive, desiring not only what is needed but also excesses, in a pursuit of pleasure. The democratic man drinks too much, eats too much, buys too much, parties too much. Focused on his own liberty and a pursuit of mere happiness (but not truth), the democratic man loses control. I expect players to think a frugal character is best, but a frugal/disciplined character won't go to parties or accept bribes, nor will it corrupt the system. Thus, a frugal character won't be able to rise in power or obtain cheap happiness points as easily. The best choice to win the game is to be compulsive. But I may make it possible to win as frugal... not sure.
3. How unequal the city is: somewhat unequal or extremely unequal. According to Socrates, a populist leader will thrive when there is a lot of inequality, as he can feed off polarization turning the people against the elites and making himself look as a necessary evil. Thus, the best choice here is to go for extremely unequal, although the player will probably think "somewhat unequal" is best. In the game, the strategy of expropriating the rich almost guarantees election when the society is extremely unequal; however, when the society is somewhat unequal, expropriating the rich may not be enough.

What do you think of those choices? Is it bad that I am giving you such spoilers?

Now, with regards to the gods... I can't implement that. Socrates only tangentially mentions god's favor and stuff like that. As this game must base everything on book 8 of Plato's Republic, I cannot incorporate god's punishment. 

In Socrates' view, the city did commit a sin: it preferred vices over discipline, the pursuit of happiness instead of truth, pleasure instead of the common good, liberty in place of responsibility. While the introduction will hint at it, it cannot be too clear. The player has to discover for himself that these sins are causing the city's decay, while at the same time riding on these very sins to win the game as a tyrant.

My king, thanks again for your comments, I hope this effusive answer makes it clear how happy this interaction makes me. 

Cheers,

Pedro

Hi there, ma King! I love that you took the time to not only write this message, which makes a lot of sense, but also find examples of art that feels more adult. I do appreciate as well your positive comments on the direction of the art we are currently producing. 

I actually can't fully explain the reasons behind the art direction we are taking. I feel like such choice should take into consideration aspects of game development that I ignore, including how art affects marketing potential. I also lack an art background, which could help me rationalize my thoughts. But here are some of the reasons for the art been as it is:

1) Cost. A more adult aesthetic tends to be harder (and thus, costlier) to make. You may notice that the style we are using can get away with simple textures and shadows. 

2) Originality. When searching for an artist, we did get some proposals that looked more adult. But they looked like many other games out there, such as "Old World". It felt like we would have less of an original identity.

3) Contrast. I like the contrast between an innocent and even children's book art and the actual violence of the story. I have seen plenty of animes that have that. Which makes me think that it is not so unusual, and can be used to great effect. 

4) Practicality. Our team is so small, and our money and time so scarce, that we can't afford to take a deeper dive into art styles. But you make me think that I should consult some friends on the topic, and perhaps do some adjustments.

Again, thanks for the interest, and hope to see you around here more often. Except that... our democracy was born by killing the elites, even Kings!! Beware!

Cheers!

Hi there, my King!

 I love your comment, makes me feel that the game is better than what we get credit for. But in reality, I feel like no one even knows we exist, jejeje!!! Like, we are "not yet rated", instead of "underrated".

The idea you mention is really easy to implement, and so I will, next time I find 2 hours to work on it.

Cheers!

I don't have a patreon yet... Thanks for asking! You motivate me to create one.

About the spiritual leader and votes... This is an educational game, and almost everything in it is based on chapter 8 of Plato's Republic. So I would check if there is something about religion support and votes... I remember something quite different: Socrates' suggest that populist leaders would use temples as their property, or something like that.

I agree with everything you say! I will implement random events, but few. My resources are limited, as I am a university professor (of politics) and my team is made of students or former students. Feature creep is something my team has to be unusually careful about. Still, I am working on like 4 different places where small events and dialogues can take place. Examples: (1) promote parties, where you talk with the population; (2) visit the adversary city, which would give you hints you cannot win them in a war; (3) visit a local oracle, (4) have chats with Bion, the philosopher (in place of him telling you things you didn't ask). 

If you want to check where the art is going, you can visit my latest devlog entry: https://pedrorns.itch.io/democracia-socratica/devlog/455422/evolving-the-art-of-...

Thanks, again, for sharing your opinions about the game.

I agree! I am currently working on the art (see the devlogs), and on making the game more of a visual novel. Would you like to give me some advice on how to improve it? 

Thanks, Khalynin! You are the first to mention the LOTR references! :) Sorry for the UI issues!

I probably should not increase pitch and volume linearly.

Both things are true in my view, Sinclair. The sound you made is good, as I said. But when the pitch and volume increase by a lot (which was my decision, as I was programming) with the acceleration of the turbine, it gets annoying. 

Yeah, the generator sound is annoying! I will work on that for the next interaction. 

You wanted an endless mode! That is sweet to read. If I extend the duration, will tell you about it.

Thanks for the feedback, YouCarryOats! I agree the sound is currently annoying. I think decreasing its volume and choosing a nicer pitch will help keeping it in the game. Thanks for silencing your computer instead of giving up the game!

Yeah, I got the color feedback, and I did improve the color differentiation between the Ultra and Classic jams, but I guess I have to work more on that. Perhaps you could provide some interesting ideas on this matter. Would you mind talking about it at some point?

Thanks for your feedback! It is much appreciated, and my main motivation to participate in jams.

The evolution part was truly minimal: The atoms evolve, that is my take on evolution. But yeah, it is not a great use of it. What happened is that I focused on Ultra (theme: too much power) with a little bit of the Classic theme.

I agree that some precision could help in the temperature aspect, and the interaction with the cooling rods can be improved. At the same time, I think a bit of the charm lies in the imperfect control, like, the cooling rods going up or down too slowly.

That is really sweet to read!!

Hello all!

I am Pedro Silva, I am a professor of politics at USFQ in Ecuador. I have always loved games, but it was only with the lockdown last year that I decided to start creating my own. 

So far, I have focused on educational games (check out https://pedrorns.itch.io/democracia-socratica), but I have plans to make several electronical board games in the near future. 

It seems like I can only work 5 days per semester on games, so my games are far from polished.

Small but nasty! With my bad computer controls it took me 30 or so attempts!

It is very fun, I would love to play more than the demo! Just one little comment: I could see some lines in the screen as I moved through it, not sure how to describe it.

Jogo lindo! Perfeito exemplo do que se pode fazer numa Game jam!