Post by djstaircase in Trap Quest comments

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I'm sorry, I just don't agree that any of us can authoritatively speak for "MANY in the younger, but also older, generations". Without knowing you, I can't give that any weight.

But you can authoritatively speak for yourself. May I ask: what do YOU think? What is your actual criticism of the game? What specific aspect, character, premise, mechanism, or other element of the game do you take issue with?

(I have read your comments, unfortunately the most descriptive bits I could find, like: "it's not my thing", "distasteful", "attracts a certain crowd" "clean up... the game" "troubling" "repulsive" "problematic and counter-intuitive" "highly upsetting" don't help me understand your actual concern. Those same comments could have been made by an extreme animal rights activist upset about the depiction of the dog, someone who believes that cosmetic surgery is immoral, someone offended by fantasies involving control or domination, someone who believes that all porn is harmful and evil.. the list goes on. I truly don't mean this insultingly, merely to illustrate why I haven't understood your concerns from what you've previously written.)

johnnyjohnsonlongcock20 days ago (1 edit) (+11)(-2)

No offence taken, and well to avoid me typing up a whole paragraph that ends up just as vague, by all means ask me in whatever order you want and I can give you answers in a bullet-board manner! Apologies if my original overview seemed vague, didn't want it to be a essay but have just enough context to let people know my stance, but feel free to ask for elaboration as I've said! And thank you for not immediately jumping on me and saying how my opinion is unwanted and toxic, it's really refreshing!

And, true, to be honest NO ONE can 100% be guaranteed to KNOW how a specific community feels on average, all we can do is make educated guesses!

djstaircase19 days ago(+4)(-3)

Sure, I'll list some questions if it helps :)

What is your actual criticism of the game?
What aspect, theme, character, premise, mechanism, or other element of the game do you take issue with?
I saw something in one of your comments about homophobia and transphobia. What specifically did you think was homophobic and/or transphobic?
Are there specific fetishes that you have an issue with? (e.g. feminization / autogynephilia, inanimate object transformation, bimbofication, diaper play, vore, tentacles, animal sex fantasy, egg laying fantasy, pregnancy fantasies, etc.) If so, is your issue with the entire fetish itself (i.e. all feminization fetish), or just this games treatment of it?

johnnyjohnsonlongcock19 days ago(+11)(-3)

1-2. My main criticism is that the games overall excecute of its theme, especially in relation to the prologues and other flavor texts, is really mean spirited and potentially, very likely in my opinion, very bad tastefully to the larger LGBT demographic and like it attracts the more unsavory crowd. Of course it's just my opinion, but outside of this particular community I think it's true. But stated the developer of the game has the right to have the game in any shape that they want, but what I don't get is then being surprised or denying it attracts a said certain crowd of the more, antagonistic kind. The actual game mechanics as I've said are functionally unique and like how it's a rogue-like so on a purely aesthetic and mechanical level I got no complaints.

3. As for homophobic and transphobic, going to give a few examples but think you agree the main "draw" of these kinds of projects is the objectification and primal, raw, ugly lust that is latent in every human. Which normally it's just like "Oh, not my thing but to each their own!" but in this particular instance I think it would be smart to step back and really think about what they're into, why they like it, and why they're consuming/making it. For example, I know one of the endings, think "Rich Shemale," is self-explanatory. Another is the constant use of the word "faggot." And especially playing as a male character, the mechanic of them of becoming more and more feminized means more harshly treated and treated like "corruption" and/or something bad, think it's safe to say it's just part of the beast. Oh and the name in the first place, "Trap," which makes the title change more peculiar since they still have all that other stuff, not complaining though they're sanitizing the game.

4. Actually think that a male character who likes their masculinity or a woman character who doesn't care for or like girly things getting feminized and/or "sissified" one way or another makes room for a LOT of story telling, and of course hotness, potential. Every thing else, which may or may not be my thing, I'm actually fine with. Of course raceplay is peculiar and absolutely not my thing, but it's better than BWC at least, otherwise I'd have a bigger problem with it I think. But it's fine, it's whatever, though the more I stop and think about it the more and more I have a problem with it, so definitely put a "*" next to that. I either toggle it off or get a chuckle out of it, nothing offensive to me from any of those. In essence, most of the fetishes are whatever and not the subject of my criticism, but mainly the execution of those core ones gives me some lingering thoughts.

Also, I assume you're in good faith because if you didn't know, autogynephilia is a bit of a slur word thrown around at LGBTQT+ people, plus don't see how it's in game unless you're referring to people who get aroused at being feminized? Describe more what you mean, DJ if I can call you that.

djstaircase11 days ago(+2)

Thanks for answering. I wasn't really able to understand some of your comments (e.g. "bad tastefully" doesn't say what you found in bad taste, "the 'Rich Shemale' story is self-explanatory" is unfortunately not true for me, etc.). However I did find five comments that were specific enough for me to understand:

mean spirited
objectification and primal, raw, ugly lust
the constant use of the word "faggot"
playing as a male character, the mechanic of them of becoming more and more feminized means more harshly treated and treated like "corruption" and/or something bad
the name in the first place, "Trap"

The common thread here seems to be domination, degradation and humiliation. So I have two followup questions:

(1) Is there anything you take issue with in this game that isn't also in other BDSM fetishes involving harsh treatment, pain, name calling including offensive slurs, whipping, trampling, "force" fantasies, etc.?

(2) Do you have the same opinion of similar non-LGBTQ+ material, for example a mean spirited woman treating a man harshly, objectifying, using offensive slurs, "corrupting" him to be treated more harshly (e.g. by dressing him as a pig or "gimp"), etc?

PS- Regarding autogynephilia, yes I simply meant arousal at being feminized. And thank you for the comment - I see now that I've been using the word incorrectly! I wasn't aware of its real meaning nor its odious origins, but I've done some reading and I am now. For anyone else interested, this journal article was very helpful: https://www.juliaserano.com/av/Serano-AutogynephiliaEmbodiment.pdf

"some people today inappropriately use the term autogynephilia in a manner similar to how I use feminine embodiment fantasies (FEFs) – i.e. to refer to a particular type of sexual fantasy or pattern of arousal that some people happen to experience" ... "autogynephilia is not simply a theory positing the existence of FEFs. Researchers were already well aware of this phenomenon, having previously called it by various names (e.g. automonosexualism, transvestic fetishism, cross-gender fetishism). Rather, what makes autogynephilia unique is that it asserts that there are two fundamentally different types of trans women, each having a distinct sexual cause for their transsexuality"

So basically "autogynephilia" refers to a specific widely disputed theory which declares the reason people transition to be mere fetish gratification. It has no meaning at all in relation to guys like me who have no interest in transition but get off to the idea of growing boobies. Kinda sad because the word seemed like such a great name for the fetish, but obviously I can't use it anymore now that I know its real meaning. Back to just "feminization fetish", I guess..

johnnyjohnsonlongcock5 days ago(+2)(-1)

(1) Honestly everything else done elsewhere and/or in private doesn't bother me, ESPECIALLY in private. So no, while general BDSM isn't my thing, I understand its appeal and pros for the people who practice it. So really less so the content but rather how it's presented in this game, if they're trying to make the game more inclusive than how you execute it is important. If that answers it for you?

(2) No because men have, in my opinion, always been privileged so to me that's WHY less problematic if it's just a guy being treated like shit and doesn't extend to LGBTQT+ peoples or women. Because to me, the fact men are mostly in power excuses pretty much all those elements. Not to mention many of them are transphobic and to be honest, could care less how cis guys are presented, as long as, like I said, the treatment doesn't extend to LGBTQT+ and women.

Thought I said what was in bad taste, and shemale, well, if you didn't know transwomen are either indifferent to that term or when they hate it, they're really, really, REALLY loud about their disdain for that word. If you didn't know, you now know.

As for that word, honestly words have varying meaning so honestly if that word means "guy attracted so much to femininity he wants to look feminine" to you, than that's what you are. Just be aware with how you use that word. Plus, take academics' opinions with a grain of salt. Honestly, use whatever word you want to use: the LGBTQT+ space lends itself to identifying as whatever you want. Plus you could make the same argument, like they do in academics, about what "nonbinary" is so yeah, refer to yourself as whatever you want.

If anything, that should just serve as a indicator of how much more you and people who criticize me has got to learn.

itch.io

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