Quite rude, don't you think? In my 30s, actually. And that's my point exactly: aspects of this particular desires is antiquated and off putting to MANY in the younger, but also older, generations. And like I also said, I just suggested to keep other's feelings and experiences in mind as society evolves, or devolves in some aspects unfortunately. Plus, "(As if vast numbers of people are even aware of the game!)" would imply it IS a smaller niche than most to this extreme. Your wording, not mine, but obviously don't mean any disrespect.
In essence, it's not my thing, I've played it, find it rather distasteful, think it attracts a certain crowd, but never implied Aika or LGBT+ or nonbinary people who enjoy this are degenerates, just to clarify. And I don't think I'm spamming comments, just merely responding to people's posts to me, and just feel for as inclusive this community claims to be, the vitriol I got towards me stating an opinion as a opinion was unwarranted, I feel. But besides the point. Here's to hoping for a better tomorrow.
I'm sorry, I just don't agree that any of us can authoritatively speak for "MANY in the younger, but also older, generations". Without knowing you, I can't give that any weight.
But you can authoritatively speak for yourself. May I ask: what do YOU think? What is your actual criticism of the game? What specific aspect, character, premise, mechanism, or other element of the game do you take issue with?
(I have read your comments, unfortunately the most descriptive bits I could find, like: "it's not my thing", "distasteful", "attracts a certain crowd" "clean up... the game" "troubling" "repulsive" "problematic and counter-intuitive" "highly upsetting" don't help me understand your actual concern. Those same comments could have been made by an extreme animal rights activist upset about the depiction of the dog, someone who believes that cosmetic surgery is immoral, someone offended by fantasies involving control or domination, someone who believes that all porn is harmful and evil.. the list goes on. I truly don't mean this insultingly, merely to illustrate why I haven't understood your concerns from what you've previously written.)
No offence taken, and well to avoid me typing up a whole paragraph that ends up just as vague, by all means ask me in whatever order you want and I can give you answers in a bullet-board manner! Apologies if my original overview seemed vague, didn't want it to be a essay but have just enough context to let people know my stance, but feel free to ask for elaboration as I've said! And thank you for not immediately jumping on me and saying how my opinion is unwanted and toxic, it's really refreshing!
And, true, to be honest NO ONE can 100% be guaranteed to KNOW how a specific community feels on average, all we can do is make educated guesses!
Sure, I'll list some questions if it helps :)
- What is your actual criticism of the game?
- What aspect, theme, character, premise, mechanism, or other element of the game do you take issue with?
- I saw something in one of your comments about homophobia and transphobia. What specifically did you think was homophobic and/or transphobic?
- Are there specific fetishes that you have an issue with? (e.g. feminization / autogynephilia, inanimate object transformation, bimbofication, diaper play, vore, tentacles, animal sex fantasy, egg laying fantasy, pregnancy fantasies, etc.) If so, is your issue with the entire fetish itself (i.e. all feminization fetish), or just this games treatment of it?
1-2. My main criticism is that the games overall excecute of its theme, especially in relation to the prologues and other flavor texts, is really mean spirited and potentially, very likely in my opinion, very bad tastefully to the larger LGBT demographic and like it attracts the more unsavory crowd. Of course it's just my opinion, but outside of this particular community I think it's true. But stated the developer of the game has the right to have the game in any shape that they want, but what I don't get is then being surprised or denying it attracts a said certain crowd of the more, antagonistic kind. The actual game mechanics as I've said are functionally unique and like how it's a rogue-like so on a purely aesthetic and mechanical level I got no complaints.
3. As for homophobic and transphobic, going to give a few examples but think you agree the main "draw" of these kinds of projects is the objectification and primal, raw, ugly lust that is latent in every human. Which normally it's just like "Oh, not my thing but to each their own!" but in this particular instance I think it would be smart to step back and really think about what they're into, why they like it, and why they're consuming/making it. For example, I know one of the endings, think "Rich Shemale," is self-explanatory. Another is the constant use of the word "faggot." And especially playing as a male character, the mechanic of them of becoming more and more feminized means more harshly treated and treated like "corruption" and/or something bad, think it's safe to say it's just part of the beast. Oh and the name in the first place, "Trap," which makes the title change more peculiar since they still have all that other stuff, not complaining though they're sanitizing the game.
4. Actually think that a male character who likes their masculinity or a woman character who doesn't care for or like girly things getting feminized and/or "sissified" one way or another makes room for a LOT of story telling, and of course hotness, potential. Every thing else, which may or may not be my thing, I'm actually fine with. Of course raceplay is peculiar and absolutely not my thing, but it's better than BWC at least, otherwise I'd have a bigger problem with it I think. But it's fine, it's whatever, though the more I stop and think about it the more and more I have a problem with it, so definitely put a "*" next to that. I either toggle it off or get a chuckle out of it, nothing offensive to me from any of those. In essence, most of the fetishes are whatever and not the subject of my criticism, but mainly the execution of those core ones gives me some lingering thoughts.
Also, I assume you're in good faith because if you didn't know, autogynephilia is a bit of a slur word thrown around at LGBTQT+ people, plus don't see how it's in game unless you're referring to people who get aroused at being feminized? Describe more what you mean, DJ if I can call you that.
Thanks for answering. I wasn't really able to understand some of your comments (e.g. "bad tastefully" doesn't say what you found in bad taste, "the 'Rich Shemale' story is self-explanatory" is unfortunately not true for me, etc.). However I did find five comments that were specific enough for me to understand:
- mean spirited
- objectification and primal, raw, ugly lust
- the constant use of the word "faggot"
- playing as a male character, the mechanic of them of becoming more and more feminized means more harshly treated and treated like "corruption" and/or something bad
- the name in the first place, "Trap"
The common thread here seems to be domination, degradation and humiliation. So I have two followup questions:
(1) Is there anything you take issue with in this game that isn't also in other BDSM fetishes involving harsh treatment, pain, name calling including offensive slurs, whipping, trampling, "force" fantasies, etc.?
(2) Do you have the same opinion of similar non-LGBTQ+ material, for example a mean spirited woman treating a man harshly, objectifying, using offensive slurs, "corrupting" him to be treated more harshly (e.g. by dressing him as a pig or "gimp"), etc?
PS- Regarding autogynephilia, yes I simply meant arousal at being feminized. And thank you for the comment - I see now that I've been using the word incorrectly! I wasn't aware of its real meaning nor its odious origins, but I've done some reading and I am now. For anyone else interested, this journal article was very helpful: https://www.juliaserano.com/av/Serano-AutogynephiliaEmbodiment.pdf
"some people today inappropriately use the term autogynephilia in a manner similar to how I use feminine embodiment fantasies (FEFs) – i.e. to refer to a particular type of sexual fantasy or pattern of arousal that some people happen to experience" ... "autogynephilia is not simply a theory positing the existence of FEFs. Researchers were already well aware of this phenomenon, having previously called it by various names (e.g. automonosexualism, transvestic fetishism, cross-gender fetishism). Rather, what makes autogynephilia unique is that it asserts that there are two fundamentally different types of trans women, each having a distinct sexual cause for their transsexuality"
So basically "autogynephilia" refers to a specific widely disputed theory which declares the reason people transition to be mere fetish gratification. It has no meaning at all in relation to guys like me who have no interest in transition but get off to the idea of growing boobies. Kinda sad because the word seemed like such a great name for the fetish, but obviously I can't use it anymore now that I know its real meaning. Back to just "feminization fetish", I guess..
(1) Honestly everything else done elsewhere and/or in private doesn't bother me, ESPECIALLY in private. So no, while general BDSM isn't my thing, I understand its appeal and pros for the people who practice it. So really less so the content but rather how it's presented in this game, if they're trying to make the game more inclusive than how you execute it is important. If that answers it for you?
(2) No because men have, in my opinion, always been privileged so to me that's WHY less problematic if it's just a guy being treated like shit and doesn't extend to LGBTQT+ peoples or women. Because to me, the fact men are mostly in power excuses pretty much all those elements. Not to mention many of them are transphobic and to be honest, could care less how cis guys are presented, as long as, like I said, the treatment doesn't extend to LGBTQT+ and women.
Thought I said what was in bad taste, and shemale, well, if you didn't know transwomen are either indifferent to that term or when they hate it, they're really, really, REALLY loud about their disdain for that word. If you didn't know, you now know.
As for that word, honestly words have varying meaning so honestly if that word means "guy attracted so much to femininity he wants to look feminine" to you, than that's what you are. Just be aware with how you use that word. Plus, take academics' opinions with a grain of salt. Honestly, use whatever word you want to use: the LGBTQT+ space lends itself to identifying as whatever you want. Plus you could make the same argument, like they do in academics, about what "nonbinary" is so yeah, refer to yourself as whatever you want.
If anything, that should just serve as a indicator of how much more you and people who criticize me has got to learn.
From your answers it seems to me like you're not OK with humiliation and degradation fetish content when LGBTQ+ people or women are in the submissive role. This is ironic to me considering your apparent desire for inclusivity. Maybe you're not aware that people enjoy being in those roles (and fantasizing about being in them) in BDSM fetish play?
Also I noticed that you still use a lot of vague phrases like "how it's presented", "how you execute it" without saying what you mean. As I was wondering if there's a reason for that, I read this statement: "Because to me, the fact men are mostly in power excuses pretty much all those elements. Not to mention many of them are transphobic and to be honest, could care less how cis guys are presented, as long as, like I said, the treatment doesn't extend to LGBTQT+ and women."
Wow. Again you seem to think depiction of a person in a humiliation role is something bad that would need to be "excuse[d]".. but then shockingly you say you don't care if that person is a cis man because "many of them are transphobic"?! I truly hope that nobody ever paints you with as broad a brush as you have just painted most men, and that nobody ever uses that prejudice to justify indifference toward your (perceived) suffering or harm.
Thanks for answering my questions but I'm not going to continue this conversation further. I'm really not a fan of this kind of thinking. I think I understand why you avoid stating your actual opinions plainly -- when laid bare they're not so kind.
I get the impression that they have some sort of subconscious self-hatred going on. After all, they're here, and they've indicated they've played the game in some of their responses.. But they advocate for changing the game to make it 'less mean' toward LGBTQ+ people.
This leads me to suspect that they subconsciously feel ashamed of themselves for having enjoyed this content in the past, and have seen bad actors use content like this to persecute LGBTQ+ people.. And that's led them to conclude that this sort of content is what's causing people to not support LGBTQ+ people's rights.
The problem with that is that they're giving credibility to the source of that hatred. Bigots that are against LGBTQ+ rights won't be okay with letting a 'non-perverted' version of the LGBTQ+ community exist, because to those bigots the very definition of every form of the LGBTQ+ movement is perverted. Trying to tame the LGBTQ+ movement and make it 'less perverted' is not going to appease the bigots, and is only going to weaken the entire LGBTQ+ movement.
I've hopefully at least started to convince them of this (as they've not responded to any of my posts for a few days now, while previously they responded every day), but it could also be they've simply been trolling and doing exactly what I described to them (about bigots posing as LGBTQ+ people and sowing seeds of in-fighting by trying to rally other LGBTQ+ people against the 'more perverted' LGBTQ+ people).. And when they realized they couldn't actually refute the arguments I presented without making that more obvious, decided to quit before they got further behind.
I hope that's not the case, and that it's just that they have some subconscious self-hate and shame that was planted in them by such trolls, and are now realizing what they've been doing and are quitting before they make things worse while they think things over.
Or it could be that they have a good guess about which other communities I'm in that I mentioned vaguely, and that made them uncomfortable with chatting with me. Which is honestly understandable, though a little sad.
"From your answers it seems to me like you're not OK with humiliation and degradation fetish content when LGBTQ+ people or women are in the submissive role." I wasn't trying to hint at that, not at all. Love is after all choosing to be vulnerable to people, so I couldn't disagree more with that sentiment. So you completely missed my point there.
"Also I noticed that you still use a lot of vague phrases like "how it's presented", "how you execute it" without saying what you mean. " I will literally provide you examples from the game itself, if you want me to get more specific, even though I felt I was pretty dang specific to begin with.
And yes actually, much like how you didn't know about autogynephilic being used as a derogatory term for transwomen, maybe the fact my rights in multiple countries have been set back by cis guys and it's being perpetuated by cis guys? Honestly I'm speechless at your statement, if your a cis guy you got almost no right to comment on that in my opinion. God forbid we're critical of cis men, truly they have it bad.
AKA, you can't actually address or discuss your viewpoint further. What was the whole point of even asking me than? Sad that your poor male feelings got hurt? Get out of here, disgusting. Now go make a Reddit AMA where you ask if you're the asshole for insinuating that cis guys have it as bad as LGBTQT+.