Post by Ryftik in Demon Bluff comments

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I find myself relying pretty heavily on the wiki for unspoken mechanics like demons can’t disguise as a villager in play but minions can, or outcasts can’t be corrupt (except the drunk), and judge sees the wretch as truthful (even though other characters see wretch as evil), and which roles renew abilities after night passes in Lilis rounds.

There’s an unacceptably large gap between the mechanics on the cards, and the mechanics as relevant that maybe a compendium within the game could address.

The ability to practice with a deckbuilding mode would be helpful or at least more casual.

MetaMetaPuzzle24 days ago (1 edit)

You can right-click on a card for more detailed information.

Also, everything you've said can be deduced by the wording of the cards, or by looking at right-click view. Hovering over "Demon" in right-click view shows that it can't be a duplicate. Many cards that corrupt say "corrupt a Villager", meaning they can't affect Outcasts. The Judge detects a lying character, which is very different from an evil one (corrupted characters lie and aren't evil, the Puppet tells the truth and is evil, evils disguised as Confessor tell the truth and are evil, etc.)

I have no idea what you mean by "renewing abilities".

Ryftik24 days ago (1 edit)

Perspective from Ascension 8 (just so you know I’m not screwing up too terribly), what you are saying isn’t wrong, but the minimalism is frustrating and the wording isn’t great.

“Always Disguises as a unique villager, can not double-claim a good character.”

Should be

“Always disguises as a villager in deck but not in play, and never an outcast.”

“Double-claim” is jargon, and should be defined somewhere, and frankly is misleading because I’m pretty sure the drunk can double-claim with a demon.

I wish I could open a compendium and just see all the characters explained with a little more elaboration - “targets villager, not outcast, minion, demon”. Or have a face up test mode in the main menu to verify behaviors I’m not 100% sure about, like the baker’s propagation. With the judge-wretch example, my thought was, well, the wretch breaks the other villager’s judgments, so would the judge be fooled?

I have no idea what you mean by “renewing abilities”.

After Lilis murders someone in the night, several of the character powers can be used again: the Judge, the Dreamer, the Jester, and the Fortune Teller. Keep in mind it overwrites the last use so you have to write down what they said before. You might be able to off Lilis in time, or leave only Evil characters unflipped for the second night cycle.

When I figured that out, Lilis rounds became a lot less intense, although you sometimes get unlucky.

MetaMetaPuzzle24 days ago

"Double-claim" should definitely be changed, but there is no problem with the drunk disguising as a duplicate of a disguise of a demon.

Lilis renewing abilities at night sounds like a bug in the game.

The test-ability mode sounds like a great idea, and I would like to back this suggestion if it isn't too much trouble for the developer.

Funtime Alex_Fz24 days ago (1 edit)

Adding "and never a outcast" when there is already "always disguises as a villager" makes the outcast part pointless since "always disguises as a villager" means only villagers as always intends only.

"the baker’s propagation" -Ryftik

If you read the Baker carefully for it's ability, than you'd understand what I failed to before, every time a Baker is revealed, a random good villager is converted into a baker.

"With the judge-wretch example" -Ryftik

You don't need a test mode to prove that the Wretch is telling the truth...

Just because it's seen as evil, doesn't mean it's a liar, just like a minion, demon, and drunk disguised as a Confessor will always be truthful due to 'Dizzy'.

And the Puppet cannot lie, villagers that are corrupted can be seen as liars yet are good.

"Keep in mind it overwrites the last use so you have to write down what they said before." -Ryftik

On the right side of the screen is an eye, if you hover over it you can see the previous results.(Therefore seeing what they said before)

The result effect can only happen with Lilis night mechanic for now, and at least 1 after night turn.

Additionally you can also see the order of which cards were opened, and some other effect about it which I don't understand yet, you can also see dead character bluffs.

Edit: Fixed a sentence and converted it into Quote Format.

Ryftik24 days ago

I’m fairly well aware of the game mechanics at this stage. Getting there was frustrating, and now I realize it didn’t have to be. It became a lot less frustrating when I used the wiki.

There is quite a lot of nuance to the baker, such as when it hits a corrupted character and ends the chain, what the medium says about a villager before they get converted (and worse if the villager turned into a baker was corrupted then lies about their original role so you have the medium and the baker arguing), a doppel baker rebakering a baker, which I had happen. Does an alchemist’s ability trigger at flip (not this) or at game start after the evils/plague do their corruptions (this) so if he gets bakered, did his original cure ability work before?

There’s so many new roles appearing at this point, the player is still adjusting to a lot of things. It’s a lot to take in, without any low risk tutorialization to test understanding, or simply a tutorial mode where I can pick what cards are in play and try to get a run where the desired collision between rules happens so I can see how it plays out.

And it really sucks to lose a run because a 7-round ascension takes me forty-five minutes to an hour thirty if I am being somewhat careful/thoughtful and how far along I am.

I think the best way of handling it would have a mode of themed challenges for every role where the rounds are rigged to act as a tutorial. So you would have a baker-themed five village ascension challenge that runs through some of the weirder rules interactions.

463021 days ago

they mean that after the night passes, you can re-use certain cards' abilities again if you used them before

itch.io

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