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Comments on 'Time Trip'

A topic by Dee Cooke created Mar 15, 2020 Views: 204 Replies: 15
Viewing posts 1 to 6
Submitted (1 edit)

I really like the setting of this one, where you travel the same map twice in different time periods and change things, but there are quite a lot of frustrating aspects.

When you're trying to get the mask and are told to 'ask for forgiveness', ASK FORGIVENESS doesn't work.

For Chest One, Chest Two, Message One and Message Two, GET/X/READ/OPEN/CLOSE CHEST/MESSAGE don't elicit responses - only GET/X/READ/OPEN/CLOSE ONE/TWO.

When interacting with the ghost okapi, GHOST works but OKAPI doesn't.

When you give the okapi the correct grave response in the past for a second time, the exslowsive gets created again and is removed from your inventory.

I'm stuck now.  I've got a torch, which I presume I'm supposed to light, as the skeleking is craving warmth.  However, despite the fact that the coluga told me that the okapi is a pyromaniac, the exslowsive doesn't seem to help me with the torch, and neither does the okapi.  I also can't find a tool to remove the small ivy (maybe the skeletons will help with that once I've solved the torch puzzle?).

Submitted

I'm at a complete loss with this one. I've only found one movable object (the smelly leaves), which also happens to be a treasure. I can't get past the skeletons, shaman or alpaca. I can't work out what to do at the temple, temple bank or truth room.

Has anyone got any hints to offer? I think it may be a guess-the-verb issue or perhaps I have to guess the existence of an object that's not mentioned.

Dee has clearly got further than me, as she has discovered a second time period and several objects that I haven't seen.

Submitted

I found a way to get the mask and get past the shaman. It's illogical, but, hey...

Submitted

Hi everybody, I'm sorry if I'm not partecipating much here, but lately I've got much to do. As soon as I have some spare time I'll answer everything.

Submitted (1 edit)

This is a really hard game. I have been very persistant and after 1177 turns, I have eventually managed to solve all the problems I raised above except for the truth room. I've found three treasures - smelly leaves, health bone and holy flower. I suspect that the last treasure is related to the truth room, but I do not have a tool to remove the ivy and I have no idea where to find it. The game appears to have a very limited vocabulary and doesn't seem to understand anything other than what's required to solve the puzzles. Even though I haven't finished, here are my comments so far...

I played version 0.1.0.

Please follow the advice in tutorial-uploading-your-adventuron-game-to-itch. In particular, steps 9D & 9E so that the game runs in its own window, not in an iframe.

Consider overriding the default CREDITS with your own. You can still see the system credits with *CREDITS.

Consider overriding the system HELP with your own, as the default response is longer than 6 words.

Make sure that all sentences in responses end with a full stop.

When you EXAMINE or TALK SLOTH or anything that provides a quoted response, the response is right justified. I'm sure this was intentional, but why? It just doesn't look right and is harder to read than if it was left-justified.

When providing random responses, it is better to cycle through them using cycle as described in section 9.11 and 9.12 of the tutorial.

You can't examine the smelly leaves when they're in the room, but you can examine them when they're in your inventory. You should use is_present rather than is_carried in this case.

It doesn't understand WAKE SLOTH, even though it's asleep.

EXAMINE and TALK/SPEAK are often synonyms. They should always be different.

You can EXAMINE ALTAR repeatedly and the mask keeps reappearing. Use has_not_created to prevent this.

When you PRAY or ASK FORGIVENESS, you get killed. That's pretty cruel. Is there any logic behind it? If so, tell the player.

You can't CLOSE CHEST when it's open.

When you GET CHEST/ONE/TWO, it says "Not here.", but it clearly is there.

When you travel back in time and GET ONE/TWO in the temple bank when both chests and both messages are present, again it says, "Not here." when there should be a disambiguation menu to ask whether you mean the chest or the message.

When I open the chests, then EXAMINE CHEST, it still says "Closed, without any lock", even though they are now open.

When you try to go south from riverside, the response is in quotes, but there is no one around. Who is the mysterious speaker?

You can't SMELL LEAVES or FLOWER.

GIVE MASK to shaman doesn't work, but X SHAMAN with mask does. This doesn't make sense.

Shaman enters tree, but you can't. This doesn't make sense either. (You have to go up.)

EXAMINE PORTAL sends you backwards and forwards in time. This is illogical and should only happen when you ENTER PORTAL.

When "(Past)" is appended to descriptions, it is more than two words. Delete "(Past)", as it's not necessary. You know you're in the past and the change in status bar colour confirms this.

When you EXAMINE OKAPI, then press the up arrow to repeat the previous command, it doesn't work! I'm not sure if this is a bug in Adventuron or just the strange way you're dealing with the answering of the question. If you don't answer the question the way it wants you to, it seems to ignore everything you've entered and prints the next EXAMINE response. Whatever you're doing here, it doesn't make sense.

"an horrible taste" should be "a horrible taste".

"Giraffe" should be synonym for "merchant".

X MESSAGE: Seems normal to me
When you EXAMINE ONE, it says, "Closed, without any lock", followed by "You". There is no disambiguation. The first part only applies to chest. The second part presumably applies to the message.
X MESSAGE ONE: ditto

You can't get the messages. If you try, it says "Not here.", but they are there. Surely, the messages should be movable objects.

When you EXAMINE TWO, it says, "Open, there's something under it", followed by "GREEDY". I think the first message refers to chest two, even though nothing changes, and the second refers to message two. Once again, it's unclear what's going on here.

Are the messages even relevant? I couldn't find anywhere to use them.

READ MESSAGE doesn't work, but READ ONE or READ TWO does work.

"The door of the rooms shuts" should be "The door of the room shuts.", but nothing obvious happens.

When door has shut, OPEN DOOR says "I don't think I know that". It should tell you something more useful than that, such as "It's locked tight."

USE TORCH at forest encampment says, "The torch is lit (for now)". This is the same response you get when you light it, implying the two are synonyms, but I don't want to light it, as it's already lit. I want to use it for something else. You shouldn't really use USE anyway.

When I found the exslowsive, I tried LIGHT/BURN/DETONATE/PRIME/USE and probably a few others, but nothing seemed to work. If this is the wrong approach, then give an appropriate message so you know that it's not just another unknown verb, but you need to try something different.

If you X OKAPI in the past, the exslowsive keeps reappearing, even if it's in your inventoy, in another room or has been used for its intended purpose.

If you USE EXSLOWSIVE, it says, "Not the case". I have no idea what that's supposed to mean.

"otherwordly" should be "otherworldly" (if I understand you correctly).

When you return to the temple in the past after doing you-know-what, the exslowsive is gone, but the crack is still there. Either the exslowsive should still be there (perhaps it is stuck in the crack if you don't want it to be recovered) or the d.w. should be there.

If you try to OPEN MOUTH, it should tell you something more useful than "Doesn't work."

Can't BLOW/PUSH/PULL/CLEAR/WIPE/CLEAN/DUST/RUB/EAT/SCRATCH/WRITE/SEARCH/DIG/COUGH/SNEEZE DUST. (As you can see, I was getting pretty desperate by this time.)

And so on...

This is an interesting game that is marred by limited vocabulary, insufficient anticipation of the things a player is likely to try and a lot of beginner's bugs. The time-related puzzles are particularly good. I know you implemented this game in a very short period of time, but please put a little more time into it, as it has the potential to be a really good game.

Submitted

(hoping that this time my computer will not shutdown unexpectedly while writing this)

Hi, sorry if I answer just now. I am amazed of your patience and I'm very sorry for all the problems and  issues you have encountered. The time we had was very limited, as our knowledge of text-based games and of Adventuron itself were. I'll proceed to answer your questions and fix the issues.
-If I type CREDITS I can see my own ones, am I missing something?
-I right-aligned the quoted responses in order to clearly distinguish them from the system messages, almost in a chat-like fashion. I didn't find them particularly hard to read honestly, but if the feeling is shared by others I'll proceed to change the alignment.
-I can examine the leaves both in my inventory and when they're on the ground (even after dropping them in some other place).
-I purposefully used EXAMINE and TALK as synonyms, even though I knew it was wrong. I was afraid that the player would not be able to understand out of the blue that he/she could talk to the animals, and given the lack of other ideas and the time to create a proper tutorial I opted for this.
-Is there a way to create a disambiguation menu or is it just an ad-hoc match entry?
-The Bank Room in general was just a bait, but it ended up being a mess. I even considered not including it altogether. I had many problems with understanding how Adventuron handles names composed by more than one word, since sometimes they seemed to work fine, while some others it just didn't recognize the commands. I couldn't find anything in the documentation, so I had to scrap most of the names with two words or more (all the animals had a proper name originally) and keep only the important one, hoping that they would have worked properly. What's the deal with them?
I reworked it a bit, now it should be a bit more clear in general, but I still haven't found a way to make two-words-names work properly.
-For the Okapi thing, I am failing to understand what's the problem. I handle the question with the ask_string operator, then check the player's answer and give an adequate response. Is this a wrong approach?
-I ended up removing the dust, it was just part of some scrapped things I wanted to insert just to create a more vivid ambient, to create more atmosphere. It didn't make sense for that to be the only object or scenery of this kind.

CHANGES in version 0.1.1:
-The game now runs in its own window.
-All (?) the sentences end with a full stop.
-HELP command overridden with a (temporary and not very explicative) personal one.
-Corrected the random dialogues using the "cycle" statement.
-Added a proper response to WAKE SLOTH.
-Fixed the multiple spawning of the mask on the altar and of the exslowsive.
-Added PRAY and ASK FORGIVENESS to the possible answers in that situation (there was no cruel logic behind it, just me not realizing what could have been some common answers to that question).
-Added a proper response to CLOSE CHEST, GET CHEST, EXAMINE CHEST.
-The messages in the chests are now described as "carved", so there's no ambiguity in how to pick them, since they're not needed.
-Fixed the EXAMINE CHEST response after opening them.
-Added proper response to SMELL LEAVES and SMELL FLOWER.
-Fixed the GIVE MASK issue.
-Changed "The Shaman enters the tree" with "The Shaman climbs the tree".
-Fixed the south block in Riverside.
-Fixed the EXAMINE on the time portals.
-Deleted (Past) from the locations descriptions. (They were there just for debug purpose, I thought I had removed them all)
-Fixed various typos.
-Added "giraffe" as a synonym for "merchant".
-The exslowsive now gives a hint if used in the wrong place, and it can't be recovered after being placed in the right spot.
-Added a proper response to OPEN MOUTH.
-Removed the DUST.

Submitted

Hey, no need to apologise. I'm just wearing my tester's hat and trying to help you improve your game so that other players (and judges) will enjoy it more .

Re CREDITS, I meant that you could write something a little more user friendly and specific to your game. Don't just rely on the system credits. See mine (ABOUT, CREDITS or INFO) as an example. I used stagger to account for mobile, as this is the only command that provides a long response. (A long response for credits is allowed in the jam rules.)

Re quotes, the natural response is for your eyes to move down to the next line immediately after entering a command. I found it a bit jarring when there was nothing there, but your peripheral vision indicates there's something to the right, so your eyes move to the right. (This is a human factors engineering thing. You might not have noticed it yourself, as you knew what to expect. The staggered display on text messaging is quite different, as the two conversations overlap quite a lot and the eyes don't have to travel as far on the small screen of a mobile phone.) If you want the quoted text to look different, you could use a different colour. Anyway, this was just an observation of something I found quite annoying. It's entirely up to you whether you change it or not.

Re leaves, you're right. That was fixed in 0.1.0. Either I was mistaken or I'd noted it in an earlier version.

Re disambiguation menu, if you have two objects with object IDs of red_key and blue_key and both objects are in scope at the same time and you try to (say) EXAMINE KEY or GET KEY, then Adventuron will automatically provide the disambiguation menu for you. You don't have to do anything special other than ensure that the object IDs include the appropriate adjective. Better disambiguation techniques are now available I believe, but I haven't used them yet. You can avoid the disambiguation menu with two-word input by allowing the player to refer to the adjective, e.g. EXAMINE RED, GET BLUE. You just need to account for this in your tests, especially match statements. The code can get a bit messy, so test thoroughly.

Re the Okapi issue, I think it's the ask_string that's causing the problem. I noticed this in a couple of games. What happens is if you use ask_string, it asks you a question and you are expected to answer that question. If you don't realise you have to answer the question and just play on, it can get in a real mess. I thought it was a rhetorical question and pressed the up arrow to repeat the previous command. (I had got into the habbit of doing this a lot in your game to see whether responses were consistent or random.) When you press the up arrow when Adventuron is expecting an answer to an ask_string question, it does NOT repeat the previous command. A similar thing happens if you don't answer with a number after a disambiguation menu. Adam Sommerfield just demonstrated this quite unknowingly in his review of 'Opposite Edge of Slumber' on YouTube. He had to terminate the playing session because he thought he'd crashed the game.

Thanks for doing all the updates. I'm sure it will be a lot better now. Will I be able to find that last treasure now?

Submitted

I hear you about the quotes, the original idea included using different colors too, so maybe I'll stick to that if I have time.

For the ask_string thing, is there a way to approach it or there's no better solution?

Oh, I forgot to tell you about the last treasure. I'll give you a hint: have you tried using the fishing rod? 

 

Submitted

Regarding the Okapi, the first time I played I examined the Okapi and he asked me a question. I thought it was a rhetorical question, meaning it wasn't expecting an answer. I examined the graveyard and got a response that sort of made sense, but I didn't realise it was actually telling me that my answer was wrong. I went round and round in circles for a little while trying to answer the question. Even when I knew the answer, I couldn't get it to accept the answer because I hadn't re-examined the Okapi. If it was me, I would do it something like this:

Talk to the Okapi and he asks you the question. Answer the question by just giving the answer (as though it was a verb) or using SAY <answer>. If the answer is wrong when you haven't used a verb, it will just give the normal "Not understood." response. If you use SAY and the answer is wrong, give the response you're giving now. If the answer is right, do what you do now when the answer is right. You can optionally set a flag when you initially talk to the Okapi so that you know he's asked you the question. For an example of this, see the handling of the magic word in my first Adventuron game, 'Seeker of Magic'.

Regarding the fishing rod, yes, I did try it, but maybe I didn't find the right verb. I'll try again. Thanks.

Submitted

I have tried every single verb I can think of with the mouth, ivy and rod and I'll be buggered if I can get anything to work in the truth room. This is clearly a read-the-author's-mind problem. You're going to have to give me a verb to use.

Submitted

Thanks for the feedback on the Okapi question, I'll handle it as soon as I can!

For the rod, it's not a verb issue. Have you encountered a lake among the various places of the past?

Submitted

I thought of that as soon as I clicked Submit. It was after 1:00 a.m. so I didn't have time to try. I'll give it a try shortly. Thanks for the help. The game is playing much better now.

Submitted

This is for Dee. I couldn't respond to your original message, because there was no Reply button. Did you get any further? You're on the right track. Light the torch at the bonfire. It only stays lit for about 10 turns. Take it to the skeleking in the past, then revisit him in the future.

It's a similar principle with the exslowsive. Drop it somewhere that needs to be blown up in the past, then revisit it in the future.

Submitted

Thanks Garry!  I've not returned to this one yet, but I'll have another go tomorrow.

Submitted (1 edit)

I've finished the game now. Here's a few more comments on version 0.1.1 for Sanjuro:

Sometimes you refer to the player in the first person (my duty, all I need, I need the ingredients, seems normal to me etc.) and sometimes in the second person (thunder strikes you, you travel back/forward in time, you drop last ingredient, you can now travel back to your king etc.). You need to be consistent.

There's still a lot of sentences that don't end with a full stop.

There's an extra press_any_key when smelly leaves, golden mask, axefish, aspirin and health bone appear.

There's 11 words when you try to GET MASK before asking for forgiveness. If you don't answer correctly on the next turn, you get killed. If you then answer Y to the rollback question, you get another question mark prompt. This is apparently the prompt for the forgiveness question. Very confusing. The question mark prompt is a similar issue to the one with the Okapi. I think you're better off avoiding the ask_question thing, as it presents too many issues that cause confusion for the player. Alternatively, I've notice that a couple of the other games that use this have redefined the prompt to a greater than sign (>). In this way, the more observant player can at least see that there's a different prompt. If you want to change the normal prompt, change prompt in the system_messages{} block inside your theme. For example:

themes {
   my_theme : theme {
      extends = two
      system_messages {
         prompt = ">>"
      }
   }
}

When you give torch to the person that needs it, "warm" should be "warmth".

I dropped the exslowsive where and when I needed to drop it, but when I took an inventory just before dropping the last treasure, I noticed that it was still in my inventory. I'm guessing that it wasn't really dropped or I reacquired it at some point. You'd better check this.

In the end game message, "save her daughter" should be "save his daughter".

Thanks for a great little game. It was very difficult the first time I played it. Now that you've made some changes, it's still quite challenging, but at least things seem to make more sense.

Host

The TWO game never used : ask_question, so there was no downside to using ? as the prompt character. If you are using ask_question, then clearly there should be a different prompt for the question and the prompt itself. Garry's workaround is good, but I'll actually tweak the TWO theme to not alter the system default ">" character as the prompt character, and the "?" character as the question char.

This will make it's way into the next release of Adventuron, which is scheduled for after this jam ends. There will be a few little cleanups as of this release based on feedback and observations.