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Voting Results - Clickteam's Official Response Sticky

A topic by Clickteam created Jul 01, 2016 Views: 611 Replies: 21
Viewing posts 1 to 17
Host(+1)

#Resultsgate2016

So Clickteam agrees this contest did not work out as well as we had hoped. And in fact we are communicating with itch.io about how to improve the system of voting from our collective viewpoint

We all at CT used the system to vote and thought we where going to be able to weight those votes. but it turned out the system was misunderstood by us on our end. This is the first one we have done by popular vote and on the Itch.io platform. The next contest will be using more established rules we have done in the past and may even completely ignore the voting system.

The contest was always ment to be fun and not a point of issue for those involved. As we develop our next contest which we hope to launch soon we want your input on how to make it fair for all those involved.



Submitted(+1)

Copypasta:

The reason we wouldn't do the same as BadDoge/LoadedTeaspoon is because we have integrity and are not trying to game the system. I think we can all agree that if someone were to make 50 alternate accounts to manipulate the votes (giving dishonest ratings), it would be seen as wrong, yet for some reason if we got 50 friends to give us 5/5 it is seen as ok? It's still dishonest manipulation. Furthermore, by justifying it, you are just opening the door to people doing it again in the future. Why would a developer spend 20 hours of labor on a game to represent your product when you are showing that it is more worth it to play games with the voting system? Also, there was a 60%/40% split that you never even utilized. The scores would be more honest if you were to utilize them... unless you honestly think that the winning games are how you want your product represented.

Submitted (5 edits)

Just to elaborate, if you took the 4.232 (60%) overall of the "winning" entry and weighed what it deserves (1/5) (40%) against it, it would come out to a weighted average of 2.9392. If you gave LoadedTeaspoon's entry what it deserves, (about 3/5) it would come out with a weighted average of 3.6630000000000003.

If you gave Dave C's entry what it deserves (5/5) it would come out with a weighted average of 4.1942.

Please do right by the community and utilize the 60%/40% split that were a part of the rules.

Link to an awesome calculator to help with this process: http://apps.mercer.edu/registrarcalc/weightedaverage.html

Host

Dave C's entry in my opinion was certainly the best of the lot. Again as I mentioned we had thought we would have been able to reflect our weighted votes in the voting system. That was a miss communication on our part with Itch.io.

I have yet to hear from Dave and would like to at least e-mail me.

Submitted (1 edit)

It really doesn't make sense that the user voting system is what is driving the contest. Again, this is going against the rules of the contest that you set forth. Use the results as the weighted user vote (60%) and then manually average in your score of each game (40%). Release a thread with the official results. Your user base and potential user base deserve it.

Host

The whole point of the contest was for us to rely on the voting system here, so that we would remain impartial. As mentioned before when we are completely in control of the selection process we receive a different set of complaints, that we choose wrong, being un fair etc. It was out understanding that we would have a weighted vote. Turns out I understood in correctly. And the voting results are posted. You are asking me to now change the results after the system published them. Which in turn can be seen as on fair by other parties.

Best I can tell I don't have a "Make everyone happy" scenario. What I can do is handle each persons complaint and try to make them happy as best as possible and make sure the next contest, should we do it here. Is done better. Anyone who has been around Clickteam knows we work HARD to be fair and friendly in our service to our community.

Submitted

May I contact you via e-mail?

Host

of course. ccarson at clickteam daut com

Submitted

Sent you an e-mail

Submitted(+4)

I can understand CT don't want to retroactively change the rules/results.. as far as the prizes go I say meh! But to be clear, I think everyone was counting on the weighted averages to keep the scores realistic and when it didn't happen CT simply swept it under the rug and didn't even acknowledge it until pressured to.

The creator of SCIME (long time, valued supporter of CT community) pulled his entry from the jam in protest, presumably because he sacrificed hours of his time with his new family to work hard on his entry and then lost to a game anyone could make in less than 30 minutes..

Likewise, there came a point during the jam where I thought to myself "I've already spent hours on this.. I can't stop now (the fallacy of sunken costs XD) I'm going all in and it will be worth it when I win!" this is the lie I told myself when I turned down chances to spend extra time with visiting friends and family etc. when I went to bed at 2 am and got up for work at 5am..

What I'm saying is I worked hard, so did the Authors of Outpost 56, Timers Overdrive, I Bearly made it, Escape, Whale Wars, The Greys are Here etc. all of which weren't just a little bit better than the winner, but were objectively, way better! I would have been happy to lose to any of the quality/real entries.

I'm not gonna lie, I was kinda seething at the results when they were posted.. which is why I'm only posting now, it leaves a bad taste for all the real creators, the people that CT should back.. When people ask me what Fusion is capable of I guess I'll link them to "MNasons"?

I probably won't enter anymore comps because (I know, my choice, my risk) I derailed my serious money making (hopefully) project to partake in a rigged game. The one silver lining was this comp helped me to realise how hard I can actually push myself in such a short window.. so at least there's that!

Deleted post
Submitted(+3)

I am more or less satisfied with the way that Clickteam is handling this post-results, but still think BadDoge can be booted out and replaced with Dave C with justification. A very important improvement for the competition next month would be to set the competition to be 48 hours of game making instead of an entire week, so that people don't get so attached to their submissions like we are now, and so that there isn't a huge gap in how much time some people were able to spend on making their game than others. If that and the voting system were modified, I would be happy to try these competitions again.

Submitted

I know this is not helpful for calming down the community but I would like to direct attention to Macromaker's comment on area 52's entry page made a day ago. I don't want to enrage anyone by it, and this person could just be a troll, but is still worth pointing out.

Submitted(+1)

In Clickteam's defense, they have been very responsive about this issue and they seem to be working to the best of their ability to do right by everyone involved.

Submitted(+1)

It`s mean results will be overridden?

Or new contests will have new result system? -.-

Submitted
Hopefully we will hear what Clickteam has decided to do soon.
Host(+3)

Due the large number of issues with the voting, we are considering a few avenues. We will need till Tuesday to announce our intention on what we think will be the best solution to move forward. No prizes will be sent intill we get this sorted. We appreciate your patience as we work this out.

Submitted

Maybe in next Contest you make more advance juding system?

Like that:

Players can vote, and most popular (on players) game get People`s Choice Award.

General prize will get game, what selected judges. Is it easy to do with curret itch.io jam systems. ^-^

P.S.Winners get steam copy of Clickteam or Clickstore copy?

Submitted (1 edit)

Any word from Clickteam or itch.io on this matter?

Submitted

Not yet that I know of.

Host

As mentioned to you in the e-mail I sent back to you yesterday, I am still waiting a response from itch.io.

Host

I am waiting to hear back from Itch.io, the current level of dissatisfaction with the voting has left us with few options. The best avenue we have figured out is to conduct a revote. This time with the clearest of understandings of how the system works amongst all parties involved. Including Clickteam which will manually append their 40% weighted vote correctly at the end of the voting period.

Submitted(+1)

That is a good idea but if we had a revote, everyone will vote the same thing as they did previously. To have an actual change, the voters should be limited to only those that submitted a game, and Clickteam of course. This eliminates the potential duplicate accounts.

Host

I am not going to be in a position to change how the voting system works on Itch.io. But not that everyone understands that portion is a popularity contest, everyone can modify there game on the voting. get out the network your game. Plus the revote will allow us to properly assess our 40% weighted vote at Clickteam.