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Beta 0.6 - Tons of changes, additions, daily, leaderboards Sticky

A topic by aeiowu created 220 days ago Views: 243 Replies: 31
Viewing posts 1 to 19
Developer

We just pushed a big new version. If you have Steam we recommend playing through there from now on since you'll be able to have leaderboards and access to the Daily run there. We sent out an email to you all just a minute ago but here's an incomplete list of some of the big things we've added/changed in the game:

TumbleSeed 0.6 Beta

  • Leaderboards (Steam only). You can see where you rank now globally amongst all players (the TS alpha and anyone else that has access through Steam, including us).
  • You can now play a Daily (through Steam only) that is the same for all players and only playable once. You'll see where you rank in the local leaderboard above the title screen.
  • Seed power videos: instead of a description of each seed power in text, we've made videos that show the power being used to help understand each function better.
  • TrySuit Area: In each "choice room" or "crystal room" as we call them, you can now "try before you buy". We hope this will help people get comfortable with trying new suits and widening their arsenal.
  • Reset save data: This version WILL reset your save data with quests/tutorial and so on. We're sorry about that, but it's part of the growing pains of this whole process. Hopefully it doesn't set you back too much.
  • Tutorial: The tutorial is much more polished so if you bounced off it, give it another go.
  • Camps/Towns/Villages: New stuff, I don't want to spoil too much but we've made huge leaps with those.

Gameplay specific changes:

  • There are a lot of seed power cost changes. Shotgun (now called SpreadSpore now, most of the seed names have changed too) costs 3. Antidote 5. Horizontal Projectile Thorn 3, and so on.
  • Crystal Seed now gives you 2 crystals, no more no less.
  • Enemies drop a lot more crystals, especially high health enemies. 1hp enemies: (1 to 2) crystals. 2hp enemies (4-6), 3hp (8-10).
  • Star Power is now a 5 plot investment
  • Digseed, Gardener, Radius Teleport, Red Hot Rock and Warp are no longer available powers.
  • There's probably a few things I'm missing but I think that's most of them!

Anyway, let us know any general discussion you might have in this thread and if you have larger thoughts feel free to make a new thread. Thanks as always for playing and hope to hear more about how these changes are affecting your experience. :)

  • Star Power is now a 5 plot investment
Oof. Tough, but fair. Star was too good.

NO DIGSEED OR GARDENER??? /weeps

The absence of all plot-creating seeds changes a lot of what I thought were the optimal strats...

Also, I gotta pour out some spirits for my homie Red Hot Rock. I never used you much, but you were cool.

No Warp also = :'(

Developer

you may reunite with your lost friends one day though, just not this day.

RIP Hot Rock

New tutorial is great, one little nitpick I have is that I think the late title card was cooler in the previous version, now that transition feels a little clunkier. Before it had like an understated cinematic feel to it.

I love the new fall damage animation. No more confusion about what's happening there.

I used the new seed-exchange thing in the Aura room and it ruined my run because I gave up my Heart seed. Learned that the hard way, but I guess I won't forget what that does! It seems like it will be useful, will have to play more to get a feel.

Looking forward to getting back into this!

Wow, the seed exchange thing. Needs some gating. I accidentally lost my heart seed trying to figure it out, and then ended up losing two more when trying to tap the second one to maybe get it back, because it dropped one, and then reset, so it took a second.

Super gross, def needs work.

Bummer, too, because I found a Thwompy first room, and it could easily have been a game winning run otherwise.

Ooof, now you can't see what seeds do before you buy them?

The desert feels so much better now. So much more interesting.

Oh my goodness, you guys. Feels like a totally new game.

The good:

  • I love finding the spring minigame in the wild. i've reached a point where I can beat it about half the time. Two seeds seems like a fair reward, and now that this minigame is more frequent (once a world? at least in the forest), I'm happy with it.
  • Love being able to throw away 2 seeds I don't want to pick up a new seed. I will probably never use the poison or cure seeds, since laying a 2-step trap (poison, then kill) seems like too much effort, but maybe that'll change.
  • Love the new intro and towns
  • Love the new seed videos
  • I'm hearing more music in the huts, right? and it's so flippin good.
The bad:
  • 15 seconds is absurdly too short a time for that shooting minigame. I'm lucky if I fire one gun in the first 8 seconds, then I have to wait 1 more second to fire from the same one again. The guns always seem the spawn in the middle of the room, and I'm coming from the bottom left corner, and I don't even feel like I have a chance. Huge huge bummer, but I like the concept. The pistol seed is a huge underrated seed and encouraging people to get comfortable with it is a smart move. If there are other shooting gallery concepts that encourage you to play with seeds, hot damn, that'd be great.
  • I still think it's silly to not be able to pick up the next quest after cashing in my last quest. I'm cashing in a quest because I enjoyed doing the quest; asking me to play the game again and potentially not complete my next quest (because I can't pick it up until I play again and die!) is frustrating and unexpected. It encourages me to start and a game and quit just to get back to the village and pick up a new quest.
  • The gaps are so much more narrow in the first world, it seems! I consider myself to be pretty competent at driving the ol' Tumbleseed, and I'm occasionally getting gaps that are suuuuuper narrow in the first world. As in, gaps that I have to squeeze through to proceed because there is no other way forward, not just gaps in general. I'll snap a screenshot when I play again
  • First and second worlds have so many enemies I feel overwhelmed. Purple homing bugs in the first world are always present and numerous, and those black teeth monsters that rotate and zoom at you seem to be everywhere. With the paths in the first world seeming more narrow than before, sometimes I only have one valid path to go up, and when I'm being chased AND there seem to be more enemies than before, it feels cheap. Occasionally I pull of a set of maneuvers where I feel like a badass, but I mostly feel overwhelmed very early into the game.
  • Did the crystal seed animation get longer? This is more an extension of my previous point, but I just had a couple runs in a row where I straight up could not pick up my crystals in time because there was a yellow snake behind me and that little animation before the crystals pop out was so long I had to just run away instead of picking up my dang crystals. And then with the gaps being more narrow than before, there wasn't often a way back down to claim my crystals, because the only path down was full of homing jerks.
  • Expected the cup game to mix up the cups in a way where I can pick the right one if I'm sharp (e.g. the minigame in Tapper), not present them in such a way where I have a 1 in 3 chance of winning without any skill involved. I guess this makes sense (you could totally farm hearts this way!), but dang.
  • Overall I feel a lot less in control of my own destiny than with previous builds. Between the (I'm assuming!) increase in the amount of enemies and the less open playfield, death seems more the result of being overwhelmed than it does because I made a mistake.
The bugs:
  • The second quest (collect a seed from a diamond room) isn't checking off for me when I pick up a seed in a diamond room.
  • I rage quit upon dying and the game went back to the title screen, then when I went back into the game, it resumed showing me my death sequence. I'd expect to just go back to the title screen.
  • I have absolutely no idea what the ripple rock does. It sent a shockwave throughout the screen but didn't kill enemies or seem to have any noticeable effect. This is after watching the video and using the demo room.
Also holy shit I watched a slug pick up a "shoot horizontally every second or so" powerup and it was very very silly to watch that silly enemy fire shots while it slowly moved upward. Fun addition, letting enemies pick up weapons.

Pardon all my griping! I don't remember dying ever making me so cranky. I may get used to the changes eventually but 5 deaths into it and I generally feel unfairly mobbed and my blood pressure has never been higher while playing. I'll play more tomorrow. Always psyched to see more content.

Man this new update is pushing certain parts of this game into FEZ/Hyper Light Drifter territory, aesthetically. The new art and audio is incredible.

The wheel guy in the camp could use some animations to make it clear that it's like a slot machine in Isaac, maybe this is already planned but unfinished but I figured I'd bring it up.

I'm finding that the videos are encouraging me to use the nonstandard seeds more frequently, which is weird since I know most of them are the same as they were before! I think the "this may hurt you" text just scared me off those seeds. BTW, I think free seeds need some sort of symbol to indicate that instead of just no crystals.

I agree with @tehawesome that it feels like the game got a lot harder, but it's also been over a month since I played it last. We should probably play the new build a lot more before we officially declare it unbalanced though!

Developer

Awesome, yea I hear you hank, on that shooting challenge. i have NEVER gotten it, we just forgot to push it up to like 20s this build. Also a lot of the other stuff. Also, sorry about the sacrifice room not being messaged, shops not having desc. etc. etc. there's still a lot of little stuff like that that needs love but we had to draw the line somewhere in the interest of shipping this beta.

for difficulty: this is something we're going to be massaging until the final day of sending it off. so yea. we actually haven't changed the hole density, though we have changed the "peg" spawning a bit. and i thiiiink the enemy density is pretty much the same too? but yea, there may be just some tendency towards hole/enemy clustering that we need to manage.

NOTE: Are you all using the try-a-power out in crystal rooms? that was a huge addition that we are hoping gets folks acclimated to suits they might otherwise not try. that's something specific we'd like feedback on if possible. i know that sort of primes you to try it, but before this were you experimenting up there at all with more dangerous powers and stuff?

Ok, I beat the game again. The game still feels much harder than before, but obviously it's not impossible, despite by griping last night.

Had to use a totally new strategy this time:

Enemies drop more money, so aggressive play is rewarded more than ever before. Beat every spring challenge presented so I had a ton of seeds to choose from. The flail seed seems like a steal right now, costing only one crystal, but also, finding a situation where you can go fast AND not run right into a group of enemies is really difficult, so it doesn't feel broken either. Used that one early on to take out a group of purple homing bugs. Horizontal seed saved my butt a lot too. Then from the desert onward I used a now-renamed Thwomp to take out worms and anything else chasing me.

Then once I got the missile seed, the last world and the final boss became substantially easier. I had the money to buy missiles, and in the final battle, I could take out those terrifying pink homing monsters (the missiles exploding is HUGELY helpful). Spent most of my money on missiles. Had a star seed ready to go but never used it. Finished the final battle with one heart, with a turret aimed right at me.

Overall, I think the new updates encourage prioritizing offensive options earlier than before. Mastering the spring seed rooms makes this easier, as does the sacrifice room. (Gonna trade in those unwanted seeds, Gamestop-style.) I still find myself adopting two strategies I didn't use as much in the last version: 1) I'm going to slow down and attack everything until I move forward or 2) I have to run like hell because I can't possibly kill all these things. In the last update it felt more like I was in the middle of those two strategies, moving up carefully. Now that I've realized how much money I can get by focusing on murder, I'll probably lean more toward 1) than 2).

It's great to see the leaderboard up and running, too! Hot damn!

Daily challenges are the best, the make me super happy.

Challenge rooms being in the levels and not the camp makes so much more sense intuitively, and feel like a great addition to the levels, instead of being some strange thing you avoid in the camps.

The new art and sound are bloody great.

I don't think the game is a lot harder, but I do think it is marginally harder.

Developer

Thank you for all this fantastic feedback, everyone! We're holed away in an AirBnB crunching and it makes our day to hear your stories and thoughts!

How do we get the Steam key for our purchases? I'm eager to try (and fail miserably) the daily challenges!

Developer

Hey! You should be able to find the download button at the top of the game page: http://aeiowu.itch.io/tumbleseed/

The beta feels fantastic. Definitely feels like a whole new version. Love all the extra ornamentation. Makes the mountain feel alive.

Developer

<3 thanks chris! :) this warms my heart cockles

(Edited 1 time)

I've been pushing off with feedback until I was sure that my impressions weren't just knee-jerk reactions. Here's a few things:

Pros:

- New towns, huts, artwork, and underground caverns are all awesome!

- Finding the spring pad challenges out in the wild gave me the encouragement to give them a try. Especially finding them in Region 1. I felt that I hadn't invested too much in the run to give something so high risk a shot. The fact that it was still really freaking difficult still balanced it out. I've tried several times, but only completed once. I don't know what the reward was like in previous versions (I avoided it), but now that I know what the reward is, I can do that cost-benefit-analysis.

- Rebalancing the economy seems like a smart move. Collecting crystals was kind of a casual part of the Alpha, but seems way more important now. It kind of bums me out that the Crystal Seed only gives 2, but I can understand why.

- Trading in seeds in town is a very welcome addition, although accidentally losing your Waypoint Seed because you lingered on the pad a little too long was really really frustrating.

- Giving a limited number of uses on Squash was a good move. That was turning into a crutch, for me. Still very useful, but the reward of money-money-money is a little more balanced with the risk of getting clobbered.

Cons:

- The difficulty is crazy. I just completed my first run where I got to Region 4 since the update. I used to get there pretty reliably, since I continued playing TS right up till the update. I've been playing almost every day since the 0.6 and I just NOW got there, and I have no idea when that will happen again. I used to get all the way to region 4 pretty reliably, but now almost all of my runs end in Region 1 or 2. I'll go into more detail below.

- Region 1: The density of enemies and holes SEEMS a little higher. Maybe nothing has changed. It's hard to tell. But one thing that definitely changed is the economy, and playing as agressive as you can has become almost manditory. This new change in how I have to play just to get 20+ crystals in R1 leads me to get into a lot of situations that I used to be able to avoid. Things like taking down spiders. I never used to take those things on with just thorns, but now I kind of have to, making a lot of my runs end pretty quickly. If there was a little more room to move around, the high density of enemies might not be quite as bad. I'm actually really concerned for new players if Region1 stays like this. My wife wanted to try this out, she's only played a little bit of TS, and she bounced off of this build pretty hard.

- Region 2: Oh my. The denisty of holes in this region has sky-rocketed. Maybe something else effected the math, but the hole-density now resembles the desert, a region where I used to think that the shit just got real. This in turn makes all other challenges really really difficult. The majority of my runs end here, and the majority of those are before I reach the crystal room. I was starting to think I was getting a pretty good handle on the movement mechanics and I even beat 0.5 several times, but Region 2 is my doom in 0.6. If you ask me, the hole density needs to loosen up.

- Region 3 and 4: I don't have much feedback about these since I've only gotten to 3 about 3 or 4 times, and Region 4 once. The new towns are amazing, though. :)

- Region 2 vegetation: I'm a supporter of the new clutter art for Region 2, but there is one problem I'm having. I can't distinguish between plants that are solid and which ones I can pass through, very well. Even when I identify which ones will fuck up my roll or push me into a hole (that's happened a couple times), when they are all bunched up together, it's hard to see them as individuals. I really like the idea of those clusters of plants, though. When there is a seeking enemy after me, it's nice to have a place to go and screw with their pathfinding.

Bugs:

- One time a grub had a "hole-maker-worm" smash up from underneath it. The grub was now in a hole, and it got stuck.

- I placed a purple spider right next to a node so I could finish it off with one last thorn I needed to plant there. The spider was positioned to the node's 12 o'clock so that as soon as the thorn was planted, I could stab him from a safe distance. For some reason I took damage when the seed was planted, and no thorn appeared (probably because I took damage). The spider didn't take any damage, so the thorn didn't spawn on it. Then, out of curiosity, I was descending from my damage-jump and landed on the node that I had supposedly planted the seed (of which existed a spent thorn plant) and immediatly took damage again, ending my run. Somehow a collider got stuck there that was dealing me damage......or something.....

- I'm still falling into holes that are spawning behind towering sprites, making them invisible. Now that there are so many more things that stand tall enough to obscure holes, this seems like a bigger issue.


I'm still enjoying the game quite a bit, but with Region 2 being as it is, this build has gotten pretty frustrating.

Developer

thanks for the feedback gerry! sorry we haven't responded sooner, we're crunching for GDC and in general but definitely hearing your points esp. about difficulty and thinkin on 'em!

Totally understandable! :)

I forgot to mention that I also got the bug where the Diamond-Hole quest never completes.

I don't know if this has been mentioned, yet, but I've run into this bug a couple times.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/...

I call it the "Great Purple Nothing". There seems to be a level underneath a giant solid colored sprite. I hear enemies moving around up there and when I enter it, I eventually find a hole to fall through.

An interesting thing to note: Quiting the level and then restarting doesn't cure the game of this. I have to restart the entire application.

Developer

oh hmmm, that link you pasted isn't working for me. i wanna see the Great Purple Nothing

It sounds like this bug I reported a few days ago? https://itch.io/post/119625

Developer

oh yea! totally. yea i've even seen this from a couple people streaming the alpha. i still have never gotten it, though maybe it's related repeat play. do you seem to find it late in play sessions? like after a lot of rounds? i feel like it's an altar room or jump challenge not being cleared up or something...

Fixed the link. Steam doesn't make sharing screenshots very easy. I've reviewed their UI 3 times, now. I finally found the magic button that makes it public...


http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=871585212

This was fixed in the 0.7 update!

Developer

Yeah this should be fixed! It was an issue with restarting or quitting a previous run while in a room underground

:)