Hi,
Playing against Zola ([0.5.9.4]-venom-zola-(192)-(1813930977).json), I attacked the villain with Spider-Man Otto Octavius (https://marvelcdb.com/card/31022). The ally was defeated. I had Rapid Response in play (https://marvelcdb.com/card/08031) but it did not trigger. However, it did trigger correctly for other allies when they were defeated. This happened in the penultimate turn of the game.
Thanks in advance!
Hi @quantumodo,
Thank you for sharing your save file. We have identified the issue in step 136.
However, we don’t believe this is a bug.
The card “08031” (Rapid Response) states:
Put that ally into play from your discard pile.
In your save file, when the ally was defeated, you triggered “19032” (Regroup), which returned “31022” to your hand. As a result, when the ally was defeated, it was in your hand rather than your discard pile, so the condition for “08031” was not met.
If you have any further questions or need clarification, feel free to ask!
You may be right and, of course, that would explain the effect. But I don't recall having triggered Regroup at that time. In fact, Regroup can only be triggered when the ally is defeated by an attack and the problem I mention occurred when the ally was defeated by consequential damage after attacking. I'm talking about a turn that was almost at the end of the game. I think it was exactly the penultimate one.
Thanks once again!
Hi @quantumodo,
Thank you for your response.
In step 136, it appears that you did not attack the villain using “31022” (Spider-Man: Otto Octavius). Instead, you were attacked by the villain and used “31022” to defend.
We only found this situation in your save file. If you could provide the specific step where you encountered the issue, it would be very helpful for our investigation. Additionally, please note that our save system has a bug in version 0.5.9.4, which may have resulted in some operations not being recorded.
Thank you once again!
Hi,
This was in Round 9, if I recall correctly. This is the save file of the replay, in case it helps: https://pastebin.com/H7QaTVsV
Thanks in advance
Hi @quantumodo,
Thank you for sharing your save file. We have identified the issue in step 180.
The reason you cannot trigger “08031” (Rapid Response) is the same as I mentioned before. When “31022” (Spider-Man: Otto Octavius) was defeated, you triggered “27023” (Web of Life and Destiny), which caused the deck to shuffle. After the shuffle, “31022” was no longer in your discard pile, so the condition for “08031” was not met.
If you have any further questions or need clarification, please feel free to ask!
Hi,
Thanks so much for looking into this. My problem was that I tried to trigger Rapid Response before Web of Life and Destiny, but I didn't find how. I undid this and repeated it multiple times (it was the difference between winning on the spot and having to wait al least another turn) and I was not able to trigger Rapid Response, I do not know why :(
Thanks in advance!
Hi,
I'm not sure that is correct. In the rules (version 1.6, page 14) it is stated that:
The order of resolution for effects surrounding the dealing and taking of damage are as follows:
1. Abilities that trigger “when [character] would deal/be dealt any amount of damage...”
2. Tough status cards.
3. Abilities that trigger “when [character] would take any amount of damage...”
4. Abilities that trigger “when [character] takes any amount of damage...”
5. Placing of damage on the character.
6. Abilities that trigger “when [character] would be defeated...”
7. Abilities that trigger “when [character] is defeated...”
8. "When defeated" abilities.
9. Discarding of a defeated character.
10. Abilities that trigger “after [character] deals/is dealt/takes any amount of damage...” or “after [character] defeats/is defeated...”
Then, in page 25 it says:
LEAVES PL AY
The phrase “leaves play” refers to any time when a card transitions from an in-play area to an out-of-play area. Defeating a character, discarding a card from play, placing a card in the victory display, or removing a card from the game are all different means by which a card can leave play.
Then, leaving play and being defeated are the same and happen at the same time (step 10) and we should be able to decide in which order to resolve them.
Hi @quantumodo,
Thank you for your detailed response!
If I understand your point correctly, you’re suggesting that since both “leaving play” and “being defeated” occur simultaneously, we should have the flexibility to choose the order in which to resolve the effects.
However, based on the rules you referenced, it seems that “AfterCardLeavePlay” triggers at step 9, which is “Discarding of a defeated character,” while “AfterUnitBeDefeated” triggers at step 10. This indicates that “AfterCardLeavePlay” would resolve before “AfterUnitBeDefeated.”
I appreciate your insights, and I’m open to further discussion if you have more thoughts on this!
Yo are right that the card leaves play in Step 9. But the response "After a card leaves play" only happens in Step 10, because "being defeated" and "leaving play" is the same for allies, as stated in the rules for LEAVES PLAY, page 25:
LEAVES PL AY
The phrase “leaves play” refers to any time when a card transitions from an in-play area to an out-of-play area. Defeating a character, discarding a card from play, placing a card in the victory display, or removing a card from the game are all different means by which a card can leave play.
Thus, the events "After being defeated" and "After leaving play" are one and the same and should trigger at the same time (Step 10).
Thanks in advance!
