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How can I turn off score weighting for my jam?

A topic by Siôn le Roux created Jun 11, 2023 Views: 707 Replies: 6
Viewing posts 1 to 4
(+6)

I understand that this rating formula exists to avoid the case where a submission with 2× 5 star ratings beats a game with 200× good ratings and this definitely makes sense for bigger game jams I’ve participated in with hundreds of submissions and thousands of ratings (like Game Off 558 entries, avg ratings 13.1, median 9). This is not our case.

I also read this interesting post https://itch.io/post/3962733 from a thread started by entrants complaining why they got lower scores, I’m grateful to be able to see what the formula is and understand the reasoning behind it. I also need to highlight this part of the post:

The average number of ratings is always larger than the median

This is probably often true but not always.

I’m organising a game jam this year for the second time. It’s for a smaller community compared to other jams I know like Game Off that gets hundreds of entries. 346 ratings were given to 23 entries (100.0%), the average number of ratings per game was 15.0 and the median was 16. Notably, the median is higher than the average.

Our entries are mostly submitted by people from within our own community, we talk with each other during the jam and we do our best to review all of the games. Last year’s final results were ordered by itch’s weighted ranking and compared the average score (which was displayed next to it) you could see that it produced (what we perceive as) some pretty unfair results. In many cases the Score and Raw Score are identical. However in some cases a game with an otherwise good score, but with slightly fewer ratings, dropped several places, e.g. from 2nd place to 5th or dropping out of the top 10. After comparing the results weighted and unweighted we agreed (including the first place winners of the jam) that we would have preferred it if the games had been ranked by the “raw scores” instead of the weighted scores, as that would’ve been more fair, better reflecting the actual ratings the games got.

I’ve searched for ways to disable this weighting in itch.io and found none, and as a jam organiser that’s a bit frustrating. Hopefully an admin can help us find a way to turn this off for our jam so that we can use the raw scores instead.

tl;dr: For the jam I’m organising our community would like to use the raw average rank instead of the weighted rank for the final scores, please help us set this? The jam: https://itch.io/jam/ebitengine-game-jam-2023

Pinned ReplyAdmin (5 edits)

Unweighted ranking by itself is a bad idea, I’ve looked at many jams at this point I’m a strong believer in the algorithm we use. Without weighting then something is needed to compensate.

itchio does provide manually ranked criteria, so if you have specific needs for the ordering of results in a jam you host you can set the final ranking yourself. I do not want to add an option for hosts to use a fundamentally flawed sorting method since it will cause more issues than it would solve.

In the future I may spend more time exploring other algorithms, but please trust me when I say that coming up with a formula that works well in a large range of scenarios is not a trivial problem. The most minor changes will have substantial consequences in scenarios that are hard to comprehend when just casually reviewing the results of a single jam. For those that have issues with the current algorithm, they generally always highlight an issue with a pair of games in the overall ranking. It is very hard to adjust the algorithm in a way that would specifically solve the problem they highlighted having substantial consequences on the rest of the ordering. That is why I consider requests like that as someone just wanting to specify the ordering themselves. So, I recommend doing that by using a manual criteria.

Also, keep in mind that the “weighted score” is not how people perceive your game: it solely exists for sorting. Another gut reaction I see is that someone who may get a 5.0 average on category (eg. Graphics) gets a 3.0 weighted ranking feeling upset. That doesn’t mean their graphics are bad. Their graphics may very well be a 5.0, but there are other games that have higher confidence level for the purpose of ordering.

(+1)

Any news from admins about if weighting can be turned off for jams?

Admin

I left a comment here explaining more: https://itch.io/post/8205919

(+1)

The results for the latest Ebitengine game jam just came out and this situation messed up the first place. Average ratings per game: 11.8. median: 13.0. First place got 13 ratings and an overall score of 4.323, while second place got a normalized score of 4.179 with 12 ratings (above the average!), which is 4.350 raw, which would have left them in first place. Both are awesome games, but this really feels bad. 17 entries, very high average ratings and median and very well balanced ratings across the board, yet the normalization can't be avoided. And there were two participants for that entry, so if both voted, then... are they effectively forcing themselves to have their ratings normalized by inflating the otherwise extremely tight range of ratings for the other games?

Doesn't look like itch.io offers any mechanism to make things more fair in these contexts. I'd personally love to see a combination of judge and participant ratings, so whenever an entry has fewer ratings, the judge rates can be used to compensate. But the current situation makes jams not fun for small communities.

Admin (2 edits)

If you have judges available, then you can ask them to rate entries to balance things out. It sounds like you’re specifically asking that judges have higher weighting than regular voters? Might be interesting, but:

Most of the requests in this thread are about making a specific tweak to the order of results. You can use a manually ranked criteria to set the order of the results to whatever you want.

The algorithm we use is the most “fair” from a objective context, I’ve described why I strongly believe this in previous threads.

A few more thoughts here: https://itch.io/post/8205919

more fair

Fair by what standard?  With low numbers you will have increments that switch things around.  You can't rate a game with fractions.

If those 12 ratings game had 4.350 raw, how does that work out?  Because that would be 52.2  stars, which is not possible. Also 4.323 * 13 is 56.2

Anyways that is around 50 stars, so one star  difference is about 0.02, and the difference between those numbers is 0.027.

I do not think, I understand those numbers. But I can tell you, that a missing rating should have an effect. Not calculating that effect would be unfair. But how to factor it  in is the big question.   Not rating a game, and more, not even playing a game is a kind of rating in it self. So having more ratings is a form of success that should be weighted.