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Gameplay and art feedback

A topic by peter980_1 created Dec 19, 2021 Views: 496 Replies: 24
Viewing posts 1 to 10
(2 edits)

I have played this game for several months and love all progress that was made.

Here is some gameplay and art feedback.

1) I play just classic mode. Its faster pace is just more interesting for me. Together with cheats, it leads to quicker wins, but sometimes if you overcommit with cheats and lose the rounds it will become much more difficult to recover.

2) Yes, I use cheats. Maybe even overuse. The Draw is really powerful for its price. IMHO, it should be more limited in some way. Either allow single draw per betting round, or maybe have draw cost $10 per card.

3) I've noticed after too many draws you will not be able to draw anymore. Not sure if this is some hardcoded cap, added for balancing, or a bug. This can even lead to being able to Draw as part of a regular move (if you used cheats before drawing cards for the first time).

4) Girls' AI looks to be too bad in choosing what cards to keep when Drawing. Usually, in other games of this type, this gives you general hint on what cards they have. But since you can peek at their cards, you can actually see that logic used, and it looks to be really very bad. Sometimes they draw 1-2 cards while keeping cards that have no value. Or even sometimes making their good hand worse, by discarding good cards.

I'm surprised that this is the case since basic recommendations that are shown to the player are pretty solid. I understand that not all girl AIs should use that same logic for variety's sake, but I guess that even the worst poker players will have some general sensibility what cards to keep and what do discard, with some variation. I think the game needs improvement in this place since currently, this is so chaotic that info you get from what cards they discarded has barely any value, which is really a shame since that should be one of the most crucial hints during gameplay.

5) If you play as a girl, you automatically lose the game if you end the round naked. This is an extra penalty that is not really needed. You could even win the round and lose the game this way. You should really only lose the game after losing all the money.

6) Game should allow you to pick the same opponent multiple times. This is actually fun since I've modded the game, by copy/pasting opponents and it works with no issues. Denise AI is brutal when having her as 4 opponents, due to her cautious gameplay, which will punish you if you overcommit by using too many cheats, if you also lose the round.

7) More saved games slots if possible. I personally manually create more save slots with copy/paste, but official support would be cool.

8) Before the 1.0 version, you could move the game main window by some of the Window's shortcuts, but now it is not possible anymore. It sticks to the upper left corner. This will be needed for those that play above 1920x1080.

9) Regarding art, I feel that some of the modest naked images of the girls should also appear in their immodest sets. For example, there is a distinct lack of "butt shots" in the immodest set, due to the high focus on frontal nudity, while there are plenty of those in the modest set. Why not have them in both? In fact, there is no great reason why most of the images from modest set should not also appear in the immodest set, as long as they are not a variant of an already existing immodest image, or image with girl looking annoyed/ashamed (which does not fit thematically at the end).

10) If you chose to play as a girl, her images should also show in rotation during gameplay. Maybe even allow choosing her finale, if you lose, as a consolation prize?

11) When I modded the game I have noticed that the game supports multiple finales, so that is great. Hopefully, at some point, we can see those in the actual game.

12) I generally like that game has voices, even though they are autogenerated. The only issue is that they do not handle emotions too well. Still, better than silent play.

And that's all. If any of this criticism looks to negative, note that any things I have not mentioned are top notch.


EDIT:
A few more things I missed:
13) Maybe have an ability to keep in rotation images from all girls, not just those from which finales were toggled on after you win the game. Maybe have it as an optional toggle?

14) Game music is too quiet compared to girl voices. If there is no option to change the volume for those two separately, it would be good idea to at least normalize it a bit, so that the music is louder than now.

This is really good feedback. could you share your mods to the game?

They are super raw at this time. Too early to share in this form.

Simpler ones were just copy-pasting the same character multiple times, to allow duplicates.

Other examples were making 0000X sets which include existing modest images, so they appear in immodest sets for the girls, after they lose.

And several proof of concept finales, where I reused existing images.

Developer

Oh wow, thanks for all that feedback, and for being such a dedicated player.  I'll just address all your points one by one:

1) and 2) I thought classic mode was the slower mode.  I guess it's faster if you can abuse the cheating and win a bunch of $400 hands in a row, but that's certainly not how it should be playing out. I got some fixing to do. I usually play streamlined so I hadn't noticed how easy classic mode became with all the cheats until I was testing the voices in classic last month.   I had the same idea as you of restricting extra redraws to only once per round in classic, so that'll probably be coming soon.

3) There's only 52 cards in the deck and I never implemented  any kind of discard pile reshuffling logic, so it just runs out of cards after you redraw a bunch. It used to crash the game but I patched that a couple versions ago.  Restricting redraws should help with that too.

4) The better player AIs pretty much follow the same logic that produces the recommendations you get, so you should be able to take guesses at their hands from their redraws.  Unless they're bluffing, that is.

The weaker AIs do, well, something else, that's obviously much less optimal. Candy and Crystal pretty much play at random. IIRC they still start from the basic recommendation, but they can randomly flip a few of the card choices. You might not be able to guess their hands from their moves, but you're probably not going to have too much trouble beating them anyway.

5) Sounds like a bug in classic mode.  I'll look into it.

6) Glad you found a way to make this happen. I'm not planning on implementing that any time soon unless more people ask for it though. And even then it would be a settings toggle that defaults to off, since the results can be rather unrealistic.

7) The saved game is basically a cheat, and it's balanced to not completely break the game by only letting you save once per game. I suppose I could add more slots but restrict them to separate games to avoid making things too easy. That's another one in the "maybe if more people ask for it" pile though.

8) If your resolution is greater than 1080p, you should get a window bar around the game that lets you move it around. My implementation is a bit wonky though so if you let me know exactly what your resolution you are using and what you expect to happen in that case I can try to fix up that a bit.

9)  I often find the modest images more sexy than the final ones, too.  But I can't just have the player beat the modesty off someone and then get randomly shown a bunch of the modesty images they were already seeing.  And not all the modest images make sense either, since some are explicitly covering themselves up.  The solution would be to move some of the modesty images in a 0000X folder like you did, and then add some logic to avoid showing wildcard images as the first image when beating a player.  I'll see if I can make that happen.

Note that I'm also using modesty a lot less these days. Now that the undress order can be controlled (at least in streamlined), I let the "lady wearing only stockings" option be the modesty stage, when it's something that the outfit allows.

10) Nope. If you want to see that lady naked, you'll have to beat her clothes off the hard way.  :-P

11) Merry Christmas! Candy's Candy-Cane outfit now has two finales.

12) I can tweak the voice intonations a little with the SSML, but yeah, 3/4 of the things I wanted to make them say came out sounding hopelessly robotic and had to be thrown out.  What you're hearing in the game now are the good ones. :/  

If you know any amateur voice actors who want to donate their time, let me know. ;)

13) On one hand, once the finales start happening, that's probably what the user wants to see the most, on the other hand, it's weird completely skipping players without a finale.  Maybe I can find a good middle ground and do a 75% / 25% ratio or something.

14) I'd love to have a settings screen with volume sliders like all the real games do, but that's a crap-load of work.  I adjusted it down so the music wouldn't cover up the sound effects and voices, also because I was worried the music would get annoying and repetitive after a while, but I guess what sounds good to me isn't what sounds good to everyone.  I might add it as a number setting in the settings file so it can be tweaked by hand.

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> The weaker AIs do, well, something else, that's obviously much less optimal. Candy and Crystal pretty much play at random. IIRC they still start from the basic recommendation, but they can randomly flip a few of the card choices. You might not be able to guess their hands from their moves, but you're probably not going to have too much trouble beating them anyway.

I think that may be what leads to really poor draw choices. IMHO, even bad players will not just randomly flip cards for redraws. This also makes gameplay weaker, since you can not rely on their draws to gauge how good their cards are, due to all that randomness.

Some ideas to make it better:

Let those bad players not understand the chances well. For example, if they have 3 cards of the same sign, have them sometimes draw 2 cards to try to get flash. Same for straights.

Similarly, have them use as plain as possible strategies. Have two same cards? Keep them, regardless of whether it small pair or not, or if replacing one of those pairs would lead to straight or flash.

And have their draw decision do not depend on what other characters did. Not sure if this factors at all for better players. But if it does, weaker ones should just not use that info (like what did other characters draw before me, or did they complain about bad cards, to gauge if riskier draw is needed, like dropping small pairs).

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> The saved game is basically a cheat, and it's balanced to not completely break the game by only letting you save once per game. I suppose I could add more slots but restrict them to separate games to avoid making things too easy. That's another one in the "maybe if more people ask for it" pile though.

I actually mostly use saves for victory rounds, as sort of trophies of won games. So from that perspective, I like having more saves (to load). Working around this, by just renaming the saves, for now.

>I'd love to have a settings screen with volume sliders like all the real games do, but that's a crap-load of work.  I adjusted it down so the music wouldn't cover up the sound effects and voices, also because I was worried the music would get annoying and repetitive after a while, but I guess what sounds good to me isn't what sounds good to everyone.  I might add it as a number setting in the settings file so it can be tweaked by hand.

As a workaround, my audio driver software has an option to add a "normalize" filter, which makes music slightly louder and voices slightly quieter. But not everyone has this.

> On one hand, once the finales start happening, that's probably what the user wants to see the most, on the other hand, it's weird completely skipping players without a finale.  Maybe I can find a good middle ground and do a 75% / 25% ratio or something.

Sounds good.

Interestingly enough, when I modded the game, exempt adding extra modest images to 000X pool, I was also creating new finales for the girls, that are essentially spicier collections of existing 0000 and 0001 images, as a sort of workaround, for having those girls not in rotation for images.

> Merry Christmas! Candy's Candy-Cane outfit now has two finales.

Awesome! Also noticed that 3 finales are the maximum that can be added, despite there being room for 4 buttons (2x2 grid). Hopefully, the total limit will be moved to 4.

Also, 3rd finale is only unlocked after 3 victories.

> Glad you found a way to make this happen. I'm not planning on implementing that any time soon unless more people ask for it though. And even then it would be a settings toggle that defaults to off, since the results can be rather unrealistic.

Yes, if allowed, it should definitively be off by default.

> If your resolution is greater than 1080p, you should get a window bar around the game that lets you move it around. My implementation is a bit wonky though so if you let me know exactly what your resolution you are using and what you expect to happen in that case I can try to fix up that a bit.

That was actually the case for pre-1.0 release, but with 1.0-1.2, I have not found a way to do that as far as I know.

This is when I tested 720p and 900p resolutions. Luckily I am normally on 1080p.

.

A new piece of feedback:

1) As someone playing on 1920x1080 15.6" laptop monitor game font is pretty tiny.
Not sure if it is possible to have it increased, and how big hassle would be to do that.

2) One thing I find missing is the ability to change a clothing set for the player (if playing as girl).

Currently it will get automatically picked based on other opponents, so players can be part of scenes. But when I mix and match girls from separate scenes, it just picks the first one available. So having the option to customize would be great.

Developer

I don't have a way to scale the fonts without reworking the entire UI and probably breaking it horribly.  Try bumping up the display scaling in your windows display settings?  The game will adjust to fit your "smaller" screen and the fonts will naturally be bigger, but things might get kinda yucky and blurry. YMMV.    I have a 4k display on my 15 inch laptop, and the display scaling is at 200% to essentially emulate a 1080P display because otherwise I can never see anything.

FWIW you shouldn't need to read the smaller bits of text nearly as much now that the ladies talk out their moves.

As for picking the female avatar outfit, it will always choose to maximize the location of the most players, and if that's a tie, it will choose whichever outfit is closest to having 3 clothes (to minimize the number it has to drop at the start of the game).  I'm adding a small tweak to randomize that  if that's also a tie, so at least in that case you might be able to restart the game until you get the outfit you want. 

You could hack a save file to get the outfit you want too.

Feedback on streamlined mode, now that I played it for a bit.

This is a pretty much different kind of poker game, where the goal is to not have the worst hand, instead of having the best hand. And then endure this as much as possible.

I think Draw $20 cost is actually balanced for this mode (unlike classic).

Folding seems like a desperate measure where you need to get some money to use abilities since the key here is to keep as many clothes as possible and not to earn money.

Still, having a lot of money may help in final rounds where only one opponent remains, where you can drown them by using a shield to force them to lose clothes even if having a better hand (making them "win" the round for $50, but also "lose" the round and one piece of clothes).

Double-up should really be used only if sure you have the best hand, due to the risk of losing clothes. And default player characters have a very small amount of clothing sets. I think the game is probably easier when playing as one of the girls with lots of clothing layers.

Playing as a girl doesn't increase the clothing layers, you still only have three. I've had discussions with Eldricus about the streamlined mode being just a shade too difficult. Now that I've had a serious try at classic mode, I agree with you about draw making that mode too easy. My opinion is that classic needs a tweak to increase the difficulty, whilst streamlined needs a nudge to make it a little easier. I would suggest perhaps an extra item of clothing for the player, or at least to be able to still win if an opponent folds. Streamlined relies on building up cash for the end game, and too frequently any good hands a player gets are trashed when an opponent folds. I'd be interested in your input in regards to this.

I would recommend disabling Shield for 1:1 duels in streamlined since it is currently just decided by who has more money to buy a shield.

And yes, I would also recommend for the player to have one extra layer of clothing, if possible.

I would also suggest tweaking the fold option. Let the folding player still gain the $50 for folding, but let the winning player have the win money as well. As it stands, all the advantages of fold go with the opponents and are a penalty to the player. Coupled with Peter's suggestion for the shield, this would allow a player a better chance to build money to assist during the game without guaranteeing a win by shielding the last opponent(s) to nudity. You could still use whatever cash you have left to give you an advantage during the last rounds , with draw, peek, and drink, but victory could no longer be guaranteed, improving the tension.

Developer

Not sure about tweaking fold like that, but I probably do need to reduce the rate at which the ladies use it in streamlined mode, especially when there are a lot of players still in the game. Watching Crystal fold her way to defeat every round sure makes the game a bit easier, but is borderline absurd.

Shield and double-up are definitely a bit broken in head to head mode.   My current idea is to try replacing those two options in head to head mode with "Mulligan" and "Buyback".

Mulligan would let you reset the whole round with no consequences other than its cost, which is nice when you're down to boxers and can't afford to fold.

Buyback would let you buyback some clothes.  The computer players don't get to use it, but then they started with more clothes, so that's not totally unfair.

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Buyback would be good, but removing double up could be a problem. The player is already struggling for cash under the current set up. Removing double only makes it worst. At least with double up and fold in combo, you can earn some cash to work with. That's part of the reasoning for adding in the extra item of clothing, it effectively gives another $100 option if things go badly. The mulligan would help but I would suggest it be at a lesser cost than shield, especially if you're set on removing shield. I like buyback, too. Again, that would help, and again, the cost needs to be carefully weighed. I love this game balancing stuff. :-p

Developer (1 edit) (+1)

Oh wow you can double up before you fold to get $100?   That's... not how that should work.  Another one to fix for me. I think I've found a way to make folders that take your money when you had an awesome hand a little less annoying, too.

Here's how double up and fold are going to work going forward:

  • Folding always gets the folder $50, regardless of whether doubling up has happened.
  • The normal case doesn't change.  If no one doubles up then the folder gets $50 and the best hand gets nada.
  • If someone doubles up then folds, they get the normal $50.  (fixed from the $100 you get now)
  • If someone doubles up and then someone else folds, the folder gets their $50. The doubler can also get $50, but only if they had the winning hand, otherwise they still get nada.
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Ummm... That lot sounds like it will make streamlined mode even harder, but maybe the other tweaks will compensate? ~looks doubtful~ I'm sure that we've been arguing for a little help in streamlined, so I'm nervous about these suggestions. I understand that you want to fix an item that isn't working as intended, but that change is taking away a huge advantage for the player and offering very little to balance it out. In reality terms, it makes no sense for a fold to negate the winning hand. Yes, I know it's a reality vs game play arguement, and reality rarely wins those, but that double up/fold combo is crucial in streamlined for the player. Removing it drops the players overall game win chances significantly. I don't see any of the other tweaks making up for that loss. However, there are so many proposed changes it's hard to see how it will shake out. I guess I'll wait until they are all in place and reevaluate then.

Developer

It's not making streamlined mode any harder for me because I didn't know about that loophole! :-P

I'm also making an adjustment to player's starting cash to try to even the odds a bit:  < 3 clothes: $100,  4-5 clothes: $50, 6+ clothes: $0

> Not sure about tweaking fold like that, but I probably do need to reduce the rate at which the ladies use it in streamlined mode, especially when there are a lot of players still in the game. Watching Crystal fold her way to defeat every round sure makes the game a bit easier, but is borderline absurd.

They even use it when having the last piece of clothing to lose the game.

> Buyback would let you buyback some clothes.  The computer players don't get to use it, but then they started with more clothes, so that's not totally unfair.

I do like buyback as an option, a lot.


> Shield and double-up are definitely a bit broken in head to head mode.   My current idea is to try replacing those two options in head to head mode with "Mulligan" and "Buyback".

I assume you will still have Doubled-Up and Shield up till the point other opponents are defeated and only one opponent remains?
Developer

Only players with the "rookie" attribute will make bad moves like folding on their last piece of clothing and lose the game, or folding when they could have stayed.  Crystal is one of them.

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Another thought that I had, reinforced by playing classic mode, was that at game end the player could have access to a slide show of each opponent showing all the stages that they have won. So that if you win the game, you can see all the images of each opponent in that setting, if you lose, you get to see only the images to where she finished. I.E. if you lose, but still strip an opponent, then you can still see all of her stages of undress, except for the finale, but if another opponent was only down to underwear, then you would only see her images up to that point. This is perhaps less of a feature for streamlined play, as each of the ladies can only lose one item per round, and so you can cycle through the images to see them before moving on to the next round, but in classic mode, it's possible for multiple ladies to lose multiple items in one round, and you only get to see the end result, thereby missing several stages of images.

Developer

That's a popular request. Some kind of endgame re-strip mode is definitely on the roadmap. That will probably require a bit of work though so it might be a while.

The fact that classic mode often leads to a whole bunch of clothes dropping at once is one of the reasons I prefer streamlined mode. Now that I think of it, that's fixable. Just treat players as being all-in after they've pawned one article of clothing and spent the money on any given round instead of letting them pawn more.

> The fact that classic mode often leads to a whole bunch of clothes dropping at once is one of the reasons I prefer streamlined mode. Now that I think of it, that's fixable. Just treat players as being all-in after they've pawned one article of clothing and spent the money on any given round instead of letting them pawn more.

Not a bad idea. Note this does make it more difficult for girls to earn clothes back (and probably the player too) since they will not be able to get in big debt per single round by pawning multiple clothes. But all around, I think it is a positive change.

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~slaps forehead~ Doh! I woke up with a revelation this morning (no, not that kind of revelation). We've been arguing about the difficulty, and we're idiots. We shouldn't be the ones deciding the difficulty lsvel, the players should. Almost every stand alone game has a difficulty setting. Artwork Strip Poker had one. You could set the game to automatically give you a percentage of the wins regardless of how bad your hand was. It ranged from 0-100% in 25% increments. Sid Meier's Civilization series had a completely scalable difficulty level. I guarantee that every chess app allows you different levels of play, from novice to grandmaster. As long as CSP is beatable on the basic level and works as intended, all the rest of our arguments are pointless. Have a difficulty setting.  Hard mode gives the players the three clothing items they currently get, normal mode adds a pair of socks, easy mode tosses them a pair of shoes as well. Except for about 4 outfits, I think most of the playable opponent options work as well, just bump their clothing number up to match the mode. I'm thinking particularly of Rosie's white dress outfit, where she only has 4 layers, so you'd either have to take her, and the other 4 layer opponents out of easy mode, or give them a free loss to start with. I suspect the former would be the easier programming solution. Am I making sense? This solution removes almost all of the quibbles we have about the game balance. Fix draw in classic mode, sort out shield and fold in streamlined, and then let the players decide whether they want a tough or easy game. Sure, you can add in the other tweaks like buy back and mulligan, but they would be icing on the cake, and it wouldn't matter if they make the base game a little easier or a little harder. The players get to choose the overall difficulty, and their choice is the one that matters.

In my opinion, instead of allowing doubled-up fold, which is outside of the spirit of the rules, maybe player fold should just be worth $100 due to being much riskier for the player since his total number of clothing items is much smaller than of the girl opponents.

Then, it may actually be strategically useful for the player.

Developer

Adjustable difficulty makes a ton of sense and I should probably add that eventually.  I'm not sure I'd want to do that in the form of extra clothes though. The number of clothes you have hardly matters at all in classic, and I really like that 3 clothes makes each mistake count in streamlined. They don't usually make games with adjustable difficulty just give you more lives, they usually take away enemies or make them attack less.

Right now my focus is on fixing the things that are downright broken and dumb, though, and since the difficulty can't be adjusted right now, to do it without shifting the existing difficulty level too far one way or the other.

Regarding streamlined mode and "random AI" players like Candy and Crystal folding to lose.

It may not be a bad idea to add a minor difference here.

Candy may as well not care about playing poker well and would be in her personality to "accidentally" lose the game like that. She is there for fun.

But Crystal is a shy one and would probably not want to do that.

So it may not be a bad idea in the future to split these into "total random" and "try to win random" AIs, with 2nd one not doing really bad moves, that every novice would be aware of (folding to lose, dropping cards from good hand, etc...)