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Permadeath ok, but permaprogression ?

A topic by Tchey created 104 days ago Views: 129 Replies: 10
Viewing posts 1 to 7


I didn't play much yet as the game feels a little empty at this stage, but i wonder, is there a "perma progression" in the game yet ? Like, i unlock stuff (skills, perks, tools...), i die, i start again, but i get to keep the unlocked stuff, so each run is a little better than the previous ones and i get to progress.

Similare to some permadeath games. So at least i may have a sense of progress and not only try/die/try/die/



Hi there, I must confess I think this kind of perma progression would be too much of a change from the original game concept. The idea is for this game to have the kind of  replayability that comes from each run being different (different weapons, items and even different mobs will appear in a new run) and where the player is motivated by trying to get further, with a better build, than on previous runs and so get a new highscore. Permaprogression would make this kind of progress more or less automatic, and therefore remove the sense of challenge. Based on my own playtesting I know it is quite possible to beat the 15 levels of the Alpha 1 without just relying on good luck, so you should be able to get further each time by trying new tactics/strategies - but do let me know if you think this is not the case and the game is just too hard!

However there is another sort of permaprogression I am planning to add, namely Achievements (including on Steam) which naturally can be unlocked over multiple games, so hopefully this will also help give you a sense of increasing progress over time.

(Edited 1 time)

My maximum i think was floor 4 or 5 so far, and when i restart i feel i'm doing the same too much.

It's not about difficulty really, it's more about doing the same. Progression is too slow (xp, skill unlock...) to feel i can really do "naked but new".

I've always find "achievements" (as Steam's ones), completly useless for me. I absolutly don't care about achieving something on a list.

I do like ingame perma-progress, like maybe run 1 is random, run 2 you can start with one of the previous weapon, run 3 you can pick one of the run 1 and 2 tools, etc.

And skills. Maybe start with 1 skill line already up, from the previous skills you've already played with and raised ?

What about a level unlocker ? Each time you reach level 5, 10, 15, 20... you get to save your toon to start with it if you die. So if i reach level 9, i can start again from level 5 with the toon i had at level 5, and i only have to redo level 5+ until i reach level 10, etc.

Or not, it's your game, and it's only my opinion and my taste.

Developer (Edited 1 time)

Thanks for the detailed suggestions and sorry for the late reply. I'm certainly still thinking about this, partly because I realise a number of other gamers will agree with you, and I'd like them to be able to enjoy the game too. I think my favourite idea at the moment is something like a 'time machine' that can be found within the level, and allows you to 'travel back in time' to the point where you found it if you die.

Just throwing in my $0.02, and I actually respect and prefer you leave out the perma-progression UNLESS there is a way to balance things with every new boon to make the player's life just a little easier, there would also be a bane that would hopefully balance things out.


Thanks a lot for your input. I wonder how would you feel about allowing permaprogression in one game mode, but also having a 'hardcore' game mode with no saved games, which would be flagged as such in the highscore list to demonstrate the achievement? Would the absence of the 'hardcore' flag in the highscores be enough of a 'bane'?

Ahh, but here's the rub, while I want you to ensure save scumming isn't possible in my perma-death game, I NEED to be able to save and quit out at times to eat and have a life.  Also, a flag of harcore won't do it, it would need to be a separate scoreboard as, even when devs try to compensate with some sort of scoring bonus for hardcore, it never really works in my ever so humble opinion.

Developer (Edited 1 time)

Sorry I wasn't clear, I didn't mean no saves at all, I agree that would make eating difficult ;P - just the impossibility of save scumming you get from permadeath. I like the idea of a separate highscoreboard for hardcore, that might be a good compromise. Maybe even no highscores at all for non-hardcore, since those players don't seem to mind about highscores anyway...

It's weird, i know lots of players enjoy scoreboards, competition, hardcore difficulties... and i don't care so much about it !

In games, i always pick "adventure" or "sandbox" or whatever is similar, instead of "permadeath" or "elite" etc.

Developer (Edited 2 times)

Yea, I'm the opposite, never played 'sandbox' mode in my life! But I don't mind trying to see if I can cater to your kind of player without breaking the game :)

Makes sense, as WHEN should a score of a game without perma-death be tallied?  If the player is just going to restart from their last save that previously recorded score at death never technically happened.