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Time for some FEEDBACK.

A topic by adzipl created Jan 23, 2021 Views: 340 Replies: 11
Viewing posts 1 to 5

Oh well.

- I dig the Auto skill - it really makes the difference between people shooting auto weapons or not. Similarily, the Interrupt skill is also a nice touch - although the fact that some people have it at 0 is kinda cumbersome
- the concept of units moving around and being able to join ongoing fights, and the possibility of 3-way (or maybe even more?) battles is absolutely cool
- graphics are servicable, yet very light on the computer.
- ragdoll physics are cool, possibly because killed characters do not go fully limp immediately...?

what I did not like
- the so limited range on everything, and the lack of accuracy - I think that the "range compression" in this game goes way overboard, in my opinion, especially as weapons have absolutely-cut-off-range, out of which they cannot fire at all. I do not demand a simulation here, but when I see enemies firing from one square further that I can at me, and then dancing away, it looks just silly... also, the absolutely atrocious lack of accuracy when firing at anything past a few steps - it is hampering for the actual "tactics" aspect of the game, because, if the fight is in the open (which can often apply even in town battles), then both sides are forced to fire very inaccurately at each other, which basically nullifies any advantage which could be gained from smart Interrupts or firing first. We are supposed to be fighting with guns here, not knives. This goes double for any and all burst/autofire weapons - if they are not fired from adjacent space, bullets are spread around everywhere so much that it can't even be exploited for firing on, for example, bunched-up groups of enemies, yet, if they are fired from up close, one can bet on all the bullets hitting right on.

I'd say that increasing the range and on everything, reducing the effect of the range, but implementing the possibility of firing out of the range with a LARGE penalty to accuracy (like in old JA games) would work quite well. Also, the target indicators over enemies should really show the approximate chance to hit by their colour - I hate seeing them all green, only for the shots to be basically wishful thinking.
(although I've noticed that hits, apart from HP loss and possible skill decreases, also have some short term effects on target's AP next turn. Mind elaborating on that?). Also, do you plan on implementing something like "aimed shots", either old XCOM or JA-style?

- somewhat low damage/HP ratio in the game: taking all things into considering, the fact that the main character has a classic FPS hero's durability works quite well, but the enemies can also be weirdly tanky, and it can also hamper tactics, when you literally cannot eliminate that opponent as a threat. It feels more like playing old Fallout than XCOM or JA at this point.

- maaybe some (limited, or more time-consuming) possibilities of HP recovery without having to go to Infirmaries would be nice...?

Developer (1 edit)

Thanks for the feedback Adzipl.  I will go though your points one by one:

> the concept of units moving around and being able to join ongoing fights, and the possibility of 3-way (or maybe even more?) battles is absolutely cool
yes, it's more. There is no actual limit for number of parties in battle. 
- graphics are servicable, yet very light on the computer.
> ragdoll physics are cool, possibly because killed characters do not go fully limp immediately...?
I have not implemented ragdoll physics yet. I use 20 different death animations.

what I did not like
- the so limited range on everything, and the lack of accuracy - I think that the "range compression" in this game goes way overboard, in my opinion, especially as weapons have absolutely-cut-off-range, out of which they cannot fire at all. I do not demand a simulation here, but when I see enemies firing from one square further that I can at me, and then dancing away, it looks just silly... also, the absolutely atrocious lack of accuracy when firing at anything past a few steps - it is hampering for the actual "tactics" aspect of the game, because, if the fight is in the open (which can often apply even in town battles), then both sides are forced to fire very inaccurately at each other, which basically nullifies any advantage which could be gained from smart Interrupts or firing first. We are supposed to be fighting with guns here, not knives. This goes double for any and all burst/autofire weapons - if they are not fired from adjacent space, bullets are spread around everywhere so much that it can't even be exploited for firing on, for example, bunched-up groups of enemies, yet, if they are fired from up close, one can bet on all the bullets hitting right on.

First off, the accuracy calculation in the current version is sub-optimal. The lower accuracy ratings were too inaccuate. I have already fixed that in the next version. 
Bear in mind, that accuracy varies between 1-10. If your merc has an accuracy of 3 you should expect him to miss a lot of shots, because 3 means inaccurate. However, a soldier with 10 accuracy firing a weapon with 10 accuracy is nearly guaranteed to hit anything it shots at. Auto fire is more accurate in burst mode, or "fast burst" than full auto. Firing a MAC11 or RPK with fast burst at a group of enemies and you will normally hit a few of them.

> I'd say that increasing the range and on everything, reducing the effect of the range, but implementing the possibility of firing out of the range with a LARGE penalty to accuracy (like in old JA games) would work quite well. 

Ok, I can try increasing range to a degree.  But I don't see having a cut off range as a problem. When you attack enemies who have longer range weapons, that causes a dilemma, which the player must solve using tactics and that makes the game more interesting. 

> Also, the target indicators over enemies should really show the approximate chance to hit by their colour - I hate seeing them all green, only for the shots to be basically wishful thinking.
The color of the target indicator only tells you how much of the target is behind cover, not the chance of hitting it. I could add hit chance as a number I suppose.

> (although I've noticed that hits, apart from HP loss and possible skill decreases, also have some short term effects on target's AP next turn. Mind elaborating on that?)
Yes, when a soldier is hit he temporarily loses some action points. Those action points are slowly recovered in following turns (the same as in JA)

> Also, do you plan on implementing something like "aimed shots", either old XCOM or JA-style?

I will consider it

> somewhat low damage/HP ratio in the game: taking all things into considering, the fact that the main character has a classic FPS hero's durability works quite well, but the enemies can also be weirdly tanky, and it can also hamper tactics, when you literally cannot eliminate that opponent as a threat. It feels more like playing old Fallout than XCOM or JA at this point.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "weirdly tanky"

> - maaybe some (limited, or more time-consuming) possibilities of HP recovery without having to go to Infirmaries would be nice...?

Yes, maybe in future versions.

About the accuracy - to be frank, I don't think that fully-visible hit chance is needed. All I ask for is a color-coded approximated accuracy (green - a very likely hit, or even sure; yellow - around fifty-fifty; red - don't count on it; maybe some in-between shades).

Also, how does the accuracy for burst and autofire works? If it's basically just increased "cone" of possible spread, there's one idea (simple in theory, although could be more complex in implementation) that would make bursts and autofire somewhat stronger. Basically, the drop of accuracy could be sequential - the very first shot would be as accurate as a single shot (or somewhat less accurate, even if merely for game balance purposes), then every next bullet in the burst would have less and less accuracy.

Developer

> About the accuracy - to be frank, I don't think that fully-visible hit chance is needed. All I ask for is a color-coded approximated accuracy (green - a very likely hit, or even sure; yellow - around fifty-fifty; red - don't count on it; maybe some in-between shades).

Ok, I'll think about it.

> Also, how does the accuracy for burst and autofire works? 

Burst fire is 25% more accurate than full auto. And yes it's a cone of inaccuracy. If the merc has auto fire skill of 4 then the first bullet has no auto fire penalty and the rest are 45% more accurate than full auto. This is similar to how it works in real life, because the recoil is what makes auto fire inaccurate.

A, BTW. I think it would be nice for the intro to have subtitles. The narration is a bit hard to listen.

Developer

Ok, I'll look into it ;)

Astronautz, It would be nice to expose i18n or whatever you prefer internationalization files, so we could help with translations... in fact, there are free community sites for that...

imho it would be better to wait with translation until the game's script is finished. 


Oh, btw, the in-game description of armor's Protection value is bugged. 

Developer

> Oh, btw, the in-game description of armor's Protection value is bugged. 

Thank's for the tip. I'll fix that.

(2 edits)

> Also, do you plan on implementing something like "aimed shots", either old XCOM or JA-style?

> I will consider it

Wait, isn't single shot on AKM, L85 and M16 is considered as aimed? =)

> - maaybe some (limited, or more time-consuming) possibilities of HP recovery without having to go to Infirmaries would be nice...?

I personally like it as is... it gives enemy gangs a chance to bite your territory a little... with my skills they have no other chance to win anything)))

> Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "weirdly tanky"

I guess he means enemy can be more or less resistant to bullets... or maybe just has more or less health points with no obvious (visible) reason?

> I see enemies firing from one square further that I can at me, and then dancing away, it looks just silly...

Yeh, i had this situation once... but I'm generally OK with range compression, I had many situations in original XCOM when bullet occasionally fly all the way and kill a guy on another side of the map, that looks silly...))) and you know, in Xenonauts aliens always have advantage in range. I understand, here it's humans fighting, but generally range limit makes sense. Here is a better idea - add a "fancy aimed shot" where you only set a direction rather than a specific target. In such case bullet will fly beyond range all the way in that direction, but accuracy depend on player click within range cone.

Developer

Just to let you know, some of your suggestions have been implemented in version 1.2. 

The target indicator color now indicates actual probability of hitting the target. Weapon ranges have been increase and lower accuracy levels are now more accurate.

Also, I implemented the suggestion  of Ursom for AI zonal defence.  So, in big battle scenes, some enemy stay at their patrol zones, this means player has to keep moving through the battlefield after defeating the first wave of attackers. 

There was quite a lot of changes in 1.2, so I didn't have time to implement everything.

I think these suggestions were very good and have improved the game, so well done ;) If you want a full version of the game for testing please let me know and I will send you a link.

(12 edits)

So new 1.2 was released, and first of all I would like to thank Astronautz for taking community suggestions serious! I found target indicators suggested by adzipl very convenient.

New features and AI (played the most complicated level) look nice and balanced so far, but there are a few small bugs spotted:

- So i already mentioned in another topic, there is a back compatibility issue with old AppData. I guess adding version parameter in those files will allow to handle file upgrade better in future releases. Just to sum up - "windowed mode" setting is ignored and old saves show up in game but produce an "trade id error". Yes, Ive seen a warning on the release web page, but code should suppress old saves too.

- Captured town generate enemy attacks. On screenshot below all three towns are captured... but Kasinga attacked Maroslav with no reason... are there rebels in my town?))


- I've found that standing behind a tall wall in house ruins allows to see and shoot through that wall in both directions. I'll try to make a screenshot next time i see that. Can they shoot through the wall?

- This issue is different from above. I guess it's a wrong texture here on the "white container" on screenshot below. The guy on first two photos was able to see and shoot me, while I can't. Then I killed him and moved to his spot to check if I can see through the wall - the answer is yes.

- debian 10 uses libm.so.6 GLIBC 2.28, while 2.29 is required; and libstdc++.so.6 GLIBCXX 3.4.25, while 3.4.26 is required... I mean lots of distros based on debian, is there any reason to be one version ahead, or you can downgrade this dependency ? what distro are you running for test? does game react on local LD_LIBRARY_PATH (didn't like libm 2.31 from sid) ?

- very minor, not sure if it's intentional: on the intro screen extra letters inconsistently show up during "type animation".. sometimes they don't:

- "Deploy Merc in village" + "Retract all Mercs" makes all weapons disappear in inventory. Close/open inventory brings all them back.

- didn't get scope in quick battle or story mode. Once I had a message that one of broken weapons had attachment, that was FAL, presumably with a scope... but scope didn't appear in inventory even when i fixed the weapon.

- Got message that Leonidas was killed in action, and later received message that he wants to join me... i guess second message shouldn't appear if he is dead... also not sure what i did wrong to make him die before we met.

- Not sure why Muko town never gets attacked by Ben Dabi, but can be captured by enemy.

- Campaign should stop at some point when everything is captured...

PS, sorry i missed your message in about pre-release testing... just send me the link in PM next time, i'll be glad to help.