Post by redonihunter in Randy & Manilla comments

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Hi there. Of course I am not a marketing expert, just some random commentor, but offputting to me are those things on your project page (note, even if you change them, it would not mean I would buy or want to buy or even want to play for free. it is just random thoughts.):

You have 7 different demo downloads. That confuses me and I have no patience to decypher which one is right for me. You mix zip and rar. You tagged indiegogo and kickstarter - is your game about kickstarter and indiegogo. Character design and style might pose a problem later for ip violations - you should ask a real lawyer specialised in such things. If there even is a slight chance, that the owners of the original ip can claim that your game resembles their's enough to be confused for some of their products, your project is doomed. The youtube video looks much more interesting than the rest of the description and the screenshots. At least the second part of the video, that runs after all the short attention span people already clicked on another video. You have typos in your description.

Ofihombre19 days ago (3 edits)

I was thinking about hiding the alpha and pre-beta versions of the game before launching Early Access, since they were also released on IndieDB for those interested in the evolution of the project, but as I saw how they could be separated, I didn't see the need.

About Kickstarter & Indiegogo tags, it was because in 2019 I ran campaigns on both platforms, but they didn't work much, especially because I had no idea how to manage the campaign and that the game was in a very early stage of development. I guess I'll take them down because they are done a long time ago.

The idea behind Randy & Manilla was that it was a world inside a quantum computer and that the protagonists were cute and endearing, And I couldn't think of any other idea than the movie Wreck-It Ralph as a reference for the designs. The logo, Manilla and Venny Loopsuit and some references are especially noticeable.

I made some sketches of Manilla and Venny with designs similar to Vanellope, but without looking exact, and when I wanted to have the 3D models, I requested a modeler was a big fan of the movie and knew how to convey the style. That's why they look like it is, because they use the base design.

That's true, but even if the game has legally problematic designs and concepts, ultimately it wasn't intended to be sold as a game in the Wreck-It Ralph franchise. Palworld was also never intended to be sold as a Pokémon game, despite the obvious designs and capture and battle mechanics (Or so they said, and even so it had its controversies).

If there is no other option, some redesigns would have to be done, at least based on the 2D sprites, but the problem is that the entire game is made based on the already established models and means a lot of expense and months of time. The worst thing is that it can even lead to cancellation and moving on to another game.

What are the typographical errors you find in the description?

And about .zip & .rar it was because in the second beta it weighed more than a GB in .zip and I compressed it in .rar because it saved a little more memory.

redonihunter18 days ago

It is just my perspective, of course, and I am not a lawyer. But it is not enough to not be the same. We are talking ip here and not copyright. That is trademarks, intellectual property. If you make a product, that has potential to be confused to be a product of the ip holder, you are screwed. And your game logo, character design and even the content of the game look an afwul lot like the stuff happening in wreck it ralph franchise.

So to me, investing in your game is lost money. I know, or rather am concerned, that it will be taken down. You are no longer treading in fan game territory. So make sure to be legally safe, before investing any more time in character models that might bite you in the back. Ask a professional, how bad it really is, and if there are ways to remedy the situation. Like disclaimers. Or subtle changes to certain elements. Clearly marking certain things as parody might help too. But ask people that know more about that legal stuff.

Read up, what happened to Sandtrix. That game had a different name once. It is the combination that makes it worse. To take three things: character model, the pixelated logo, the plot. Each in each own, might be ok, but in combination they might be seen as infringement.

Ant to say it again, all these were just observations. Do not take it too serious. But reading the thing with the different demo versions in comments, that already caused confusion. And if you try to go to steam, as the logo in the yt video implies, you might be denied, because of unclear legal status. Since you have no link to any wishlist me on steam page, I assume you are not at that point yet.

Ofihombre18 days ago (5 edits)

For some reason I had problems showing it on reddit. The game logo itself was intended to be a reference to the movie logo, but if you look closely, it is not in an accurate enough font to be considered trademark infringement.

About characters designs, it would be problematic to some extent. The plot is the only thing that is completely different, as it doesn't follow the plot of either of both Wreck-It Ralph films. It isn't about a villain who wants to be the hero, but fails, or about a girl rejected from the race for being a glitch and who is secretly a princess.

It's an adventure story about two kids who are chosen to defeat a robotic supervillain called Cracksom Virus (a cliché plot, but it's a template for many other stories).

Being sued just for a logo and several characters would be like judging a book by its cover, since it also has to go deeper by seeing everything the game contains before declaring infringement.

There is a phrase from a lawyer whose name I don't remember, but he said the following: It can't has a monopoly on styles, because otherwise the industry would have been frozen for years (all as long as it doesn't look too obvious).

And if you think he doesn't have any wishlists on Steam just because it seems too inspired, as of the date of this comment it reached 125.

redonihunter18 days ago

but if you look closely, it is not in an accurate enough font to be considered trademark infringement

And you know that, because you asked an actual legal expert on this? If not, then your statement is just an unqualified opinion. The ip holder might have a different opinion. Also, as I said, they can make a case out of a combination of things, that would alone maybe not be enough to infringe.

If you are greenlit on steam, that might be a good sign, but why is there no link to be seen on your page? Also, steam giving green light is not a legal advise from them. They take down things for infringement often enough.

Ofihombre18 days ago

The youtube videos have the Steam link of the game. Should I also link it on itcho?

There are moments when they are sued for looking very similar without understanding the context of why it is so. Those who are very maximalists of IP and Copyright demand that everything be completely original without being based on anything previous, but the reality is that now originality is almost non-existent.

If we think deeply, almost all human art is based on influences, on things that have already been seen, or even works in the public domain or with a Creative Commons license. The copying is even incidental, and not necessarily intentional.

Going back to the lawsuits for similar character designs, I know another case in another game called "The Last Archwing", and the villain in design is like one from Dragon Ball, and until now the game wasn't deleted by a takedown from Toei Animation just because of that detail, because they haven't found out yet or that the game isn't successful.

Well, like that game, for me the demand will also be late, because generally trademark and copyright lawsuits from companies like Disney or Nintendo focus more on mascots, music, or the most profitable IPs of the moment (in this case, by using Mickey Mouse, Star Wars or Marvel).

The last thing that occurs to me but at the same time useless, before that day, It is a comparison image that I made based on my research from watching both the movie and the game:

redonihunter18 days ago

Read about Sandtrix. Read the letter they got. Read about what constitutes trademark infringement. It is not about exact copies. If they can make a case that the combination of elements can make someone mistake your game as a game of their franchise, they probably will sue at some time.

If your game is at a glance clearly not of their franchise, you should be safe-ish. And it is not helping, that you named that shield skill glitched shield skill. As I said, it is the combination of elements.

Maybe read about other games that have parodied known franchises. How far could they go, and were there troubles.

Ofihombre18 days ago

I've already seen Sandtrix case, and the lawsuit was due to 3 reasons:

1. It was previously called Setris, and the lettering font was identical to the logo of the Gameboy version.

2. The design of the tetrominos was also identical to the game, but it was more for texture and not for shape.

3. Using a remix of a feature song from the game.

Despite this, most of the things about the game remain the same.

Glitch is not a protectable term, it would rather be the expression of the same.

itch.io

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