Post by Lucky19 in Harem Hotel (18+) comments

Viewing post in Harem Hotel (18+) comments

So... Finally got to the end. That was a lot of hours of gameplay. I am impressed.

I am, unfortunately, less impressed with the recent developments.

SPOILERS beyond this point.

You have been warned.

The first confusing thing is: why is Cornwall suddenly the bad guy? He starts as an Abraham Lincoln expy, but by the end of Maria's story we are supposed to hate him. Why?

Then, the further you go, the stranger the world gets. And by stranger I mean less belieavable. There is a difference between breaking into a random house and helping a slave escape and breaking into a military facility. That requires some heavy-duty SoD, I don't have a lot of that lying around.

Third, the MC seems to miss some rather obvious clues, and make some really weird choices. Granted, some of the missed clues are instrumental in saving his life (not figuring out the "divine punishment" meant he didn't call whatsherface out on it, so she didn't murderize him to keep him quiet), but some just end up in needless pain.

Fourth, speaking of needless pain, one would assume that the procedure to collect a rogue elf (or half-elf) would be a matter of course, performed by couple of random LEOs who will politely yet firmly inform that you have been hiding an escaped elf, and you need to follow them to answer some routine questions.

What one would not assume is a doctor making a production of having found out that one of their patients is an escaped slave. One would especially not expect said doctor to be able to *detain* the excaped slave and keep hold of them for any significant period of time. That's the job of law enforcement.

Indeed, the law seems to be worded as "collect the newly discovered slaves in the manner that is most personally enraging to any of their friends, but do not bother bringing them in for questioning".

At least we get to go home and call upon some powerful assets (Trenero and Cornwall) to fix the problem for us like a boss oh no wait, we are just calling to yell at them. WHY? With the richest man in the world on speed-dial, why wouldn't you simply ask for a favor? Considering he OWNS HIS WIFE he should be rather sympathetic.

By this point I had run out of heavy-duty SoD, and that broke the game for me. I hope that particular storyline will be revisited.

Zexian Krutz3 years ago (2 edits) (+2)

Hey. Probably Runey will give you more detailed explanation as author, but I will try to give some answers too (because all replyes you can find in game story).

{SPOILERS BELOW}

1. "Defender of elf rights" - is just a mask for Cornwall. He created few minor laws about rights of elves and just took the whole slave market under his hand. He do not care about elves at all. Half-elves still do not have any rights and Cornwall is ok with this. His "slave ownership recall" possibility is just to deal with slavers he do not like.

2. Breaking in VERY old military facility. No one cares about this storage and there where just some human guards (yes, not even android - that shows how indifirent are politics about this place).

3. Yeah... here I partialy agree. MC is too powerless... just a normal human, not even very smart (because in story with High Elf Queen it was very obvious from the very begining that she do not have any "magic" powers and just uses fairys; or in Maria story - for me it was very clear that there is a high possibility for Maria to be a half-elf, I started to suspect this from the moment when I saw dark elf for the first time, in dungeon event with Cornwall).

4. Sylanar is society with slavery. DNA test sometimes is the only way to find that someone is a half-elf. Also, let me remind you that elves have some rights, but half-elfs do not have any. So it is very normal for hospitals to have some robots and jails to keep half-elfs when they find them.

5. When they find an half-elf that is accompanied with human they have all reasons to suspect that he is one who broke the law and secretely kept half-elf. So MC is very lucky that he didnt got even more problems with Maria.

6. Trenero do not have any reasons to help MC with slavery problem (he even have hundreds of slaves himself and do not care much if they die because of his actions). Cornwall have a strong antypathy agains MC and will never help him with something like this. Also he is in church of slavery in Sylanar, so he will just say "this is common event, just buy her".

I hope this helps.

P.S. Sorry for my imperfect English.

Lucky193 years ago (2 edits) (+2)(-1)

Well, here's hoping I will get an answer from the Big Guy :)

Nonetheless:

1. We don't see that though. What little I personally saw of Cornwall (and that was largely during his "challenge") gave me the impression that he actually cared about slaves. Granted, he cared in the way you would care about animals that are being abused, but it still seems better than considering them pieces of furniture. Half-elves having no rights sounds a lot like political sausagemaking to me: Cornwall proposed a sweeping bill, a lot of powerful people got upset that they were going to lose their toys, Cornwall scaled it down to exclude half-elves so that the bill could get through.

Cornwall DID NOT create the laws that caused Maria to lose her entire life. He DID NOT enslave Lin, he DID NOT turn Jin into a brainless sex addict, he DID NOT rape Nia until she turned into Elf Batman. He didn't even rape Sylvia in the middle of a fuck-a-ton challenge, FFS, if you want to paint him as an irredemable bad guy AT LEAST have him do SOMETHING bad.

At the absolute worst, from what we are shown, not told, he *might* be a greedy asshole whose motive in helping the elves was purely self-serving.

In other words, he's your average politician. Not even a particularly bad one.

The bottom line is: if Cornwall is to be treated like a villain, we need to see him do villainous things. Show, don't tell. I personally have not seen Cornwall act like a genuinely bad person, so it is jarring to me that the MC would use his connection to Trenero to get Cornwall's phone number just to YELL at him.

2. Laser tripwires, security cameras, volumetric sensors, bloody contact sensors! That stuff is cheap as dirt in a high-tech setting, and quickly goes beyond the ability of a single elf with barely the clothes on her back to defeat. Also, the software is being updated on a regular basis, so there is still some amount of work being done on them. Even if they were barely considered worth anything, they are still considered weapons. so a certain level of security is warranted.

3. He also seems to take certain things way too much in stride... Like Ashley pulling a knife on Maria. Or Ashley trying to kill Andy the Android. Or Ashley breaking into his room and then into his computer. Or Ashley threatening to kill him. Or... Ashley, really.

4. and 5. I don't buy it: even if it's just a single room that is generally used as a broom closet, just calling the cops and letting them deal with it seems far more realistic an approach. It's not like the half-elf in question knows they are a half elf, they went in for a genetic test of their own free will, how hard would it be to make them wait an extra fifteen minutes for the results while the cops arrive on site? Then the cops can take care of explaining the situation to the half-elf and their friends.

Even if half-elves are still considered furniture, they are furniture with a potentially influential prospective owner. The treatment of Maria at the hospital makes very little sense in context.

6. Kali. Lucia. Mariella. Three pretty good reasons for Trenero to help the MC, who is a potential son-in-law. This half-elf girl is a friend of his family, and the effort it would take him to help is pretty low: just make a couple of phone calls and see that *the procedure is smoothed over* so that Maria can be back at home before the evening is out. Even if the MC (and, don't forget, Kali and Lucia) were to ask for money, that's pocket change for him. You buy Nia with the money Kali spent on a DRESS.

But even then, let's say Trenero decides not to help the MC.

That is not the problem. If the author decides that Trenero is enough of an asshole not to help his daghters and potential son-in-law with a matter that costs him little to nothing, then that is the character of Trenero, and that is fine.

The problem is the MC not even trying. He's not trying to help Maria, he's just venting at people who have little to nothing to do with the entire mess.

The problem is that the MC is a self-conceited asshole who won't even go to the effort of ASKING two powerful people he personally knows to HELP HIS FRIEND WHO IS CURRENTLY BEING HELD CAPTIVE so that he can buy her before the day is over and at least help minimize *that* trauma.

He just yells at Trenero and threatens Cornwall.

I'm sure Cornwall is quaking in his boots. After he hurt the business of several rich, powerful, ruthless people with his elf-friendly laws, the idea of having an idealistic hotel manager with barely a buck to his name after him must keep Cornwall awake at night.

I don't like characters holding the idiot ball and not trying the obvious solution first. The solution doesn't have to WORK, it is FINE for Trenero to say he cannot help, it is FINE for Cornwall to say he cannot interfere with the proper procedures, it is FINE for the OTHER people who COULD potentially save Maria to turn out to be assholes.

It is not fine for the MC to be an asshole. Not and be praised for it, anyway.

P.S. Oy vey, typos away.

Zexian Krutz3 years ago(+1)

Hmm, probably Runey had to keep the previous "first meeting" with Cornwall. This one meeting shows that he is looking on elves as on animals and nothing more. Also Cornwall very clearly see MC as a trouble because he doubt Cornwall methods and treat elfs as equals. But, ok, looks like for you "the head of slavery" who is actualy doing nothing good for elfs isnt enough to see him as a vilain. If we are looking from this point, then I think you even could like Putin (Russian president)... why, he never did anything bad with his own hands :D

As for Trenero... ok, it would be good if Runey could add the option to ask Trenero for help in this event. Just for blind peoples. I would never choose this option because I can see that he cares only about his own business. There is no way for him to decide to help even if Kali would asked him. And, ofcourse, if we ask Cornwall for help it can give him a very good reason to do some research about MC. He will find that MC now owns Nia and Sylvia. One very good known troublemaker and one that escaped from Cornwall himself. This will be a very good reason for Cornwall to restrict MC from slavery and recall all his elves.

Ashley... you know, she is tipycal yandere and this explains everything :D

4/5 - money make peoples very unlogical. They could call the police, but why if there is a very good law "the one who found an elf and reported becomes his master and can sell this elf freely". If doctor will call police, then police will come, take the elf and will claim ownership, doctor will get nothing for this.

P.S. Ok, I undarstand that we see things very differently here, no need for more disscusion. After all, I think Runey will come soon and will give some replyes ;)

Lucky193 years ago(+2)(-1)

1. The duly elected minister of slavery not helping the slaves does not make him a villain, no. He is just a normal politician. It would be different if he were advocating for removing slave rights, but not advocating to expand them does not make him evil. Throughout human history many people were slavers whom we would not call evil. Cornwall is self-serving, but regardless of motives he made the lives of elves better. As long as he does not actively endeavour to make somebody else's life worse, his karma is still in the positives.

2. Trenero seems to love his family well enough. We are repeatedly told that he's an asshole, but he comes off as a businessman more than anything. Spending half an hournmaking phone calls to make his daughter happy should not be beyond his ability to care, if only so that his wife will be more enthusiastic the following night. As for asking Cornwall for help... How is threatening him better than asking for his help? Either way we are in his sights, may as well try to get something out of it. And then we can call him an asshole and say that we hate him.

3. Ashley looks like a crazy stalker. If the MC is supposed to be your player character, as the author stated, and not just another character in the story, you should have the option to call her out on her BS. Drugging people against their will is not okay. Threatening people with knives is not okay. Attempted murder is very much not okay. Supposed her logic bomb had worked. Now Andy the Android is dead. Do we laugh and wave it off as Ashley being a yandere?

4. This is called making up excuses. The doctor says that we need to purchase Maria. Whom from? Her? Why? Is it finders keepers? If so we found her, and we should not need to buy her. Is it a government tax? If so there is no reason for the doctor to get extra money for holding her. Either there is a special reward for discovering the crime or there isn't, but surely what matters is who reported the crime. The doctor cannot be selling Maria because Maria does not legally belong to her. That is the whole crux of the matter, that half elves must be owned, and she does not have an owner. If changing that were as simple as saying "you are now mine", we could say that and be done with it.

I want the game to be internally consistent, because that makes for a better story. The more excuses Ihave to make up for its inconsistencies, the less I enjoy the story. Thus, I would like the author to take a moment to address those inconsistencies. I think it would make for a better story.

Similarly, I would like to be given some actual reasons to hate the villains. Being told that their reforms weren't comprehensive enough makes me think poorly of the speaker, not the supposed villain.

SoloAkiraLight3 years ago

I completely agree.

Except that maybe Tenno is worse than Cornwall as he has all neutered elves that he drains blood from to make replacement elves. Guess they are into that together in the fact Cornwall obtained them but draining blood while they sleep isn't at all okay. Like they get a better life? I couldn't imagine 1000 elves having a better life I could only imagine them in a massive factory with only have rest time to gain blood back.

Ashley ended up on the lower end of my list due to being fucking crazy and just wanting to pump out kids, but also be a doctor, bitch you want 12 kids that's going to take longer than any degree will.

RuneyGames3 years ago (4 edits) (+2)

1. As I said in another post, you haven't seen him at his worst. I can understand why you would be confused 100%, and this is intentional. I don't like making people bad for bad sake, they have reason. Without going into too much spoilers though, you'll have to take my word he's a greedy power hungry politician for now out of lore ;)
In lore though, he's done some shitty things already. And had he given rights to half elves like he did to elves, things would have been better for Her.

2. You get two sides of the coin here, the personal side of Trenero, and the way the a part of the world views him. He is a decent loving father, but he's also a slave owning profiteer who hordes money instead of helping others. He's the richest man in the world, a mayor, holds monopolies over many products, and can personally send space ships to other planets in the solar system, but with all the power he has, all he's doing is trying to make more money, specifically off elvish labor because it's more profitable.

3. Ashley hasn't drugged or raped anyone against their will. MC is either willing or has the option to break out of it. While she has threatened people, she's not crazy enough to hurt them (you'll have to take my word for it I guess). And yes, you are meant to laugh that last part off, it was a joke.

4. You hit the nail on the head, it's finder's keeper's. Just like dogs or cats you find on the side of the street. If they don't have a collar, you're allowed to pick them up and adopt them. This is very much how slavery works in Syl'anar. If a slave isn't registered, they can be registered by ANYONE. So the doctor registered Her to the government. It's definitely bullshit, but all of it consistent in my opinion.
The reason the culture / law works like this is because it systematically keeps every single elf a slave, and to be seen as an object to profit off of. If there's just a free slave laying around, why not pick it up and start making money? All to encourage slavery. (which is a very bad thing).
Or maybe a better metaphor would be you being a farmer and spotting a wild cow. You would think to yourself "Oh hey, if I milked it, I could make money off it"

You are right to want to be shown why antagonists are bad, and you will. Cornwall is an often talked about but rarely seen character at the moment, and I do have some things up my sleeve that will make you think "Ohhh, yeah. Fuck this guy all the way."

Lucky193 years ago (1 edit) (-2)

Thank you for your reply.

So, first of all, my thoughts on villains in general: standing back and not helping when you could do so at no cost does not make you evil, it just makes you an asshole. Actively hindering positive change is the minimum bar for evil, and even then it may not be enough.

Wailing on Cornwall because "he didn't give slaves enough rights does" not make sense. You as an author may know how bad he really is, but Nia doesn't - or at least she doesn't see fit to share it with us - and the MC's interactions with him have been, if not necessarily positive, at least not entirely negative,

The impression he has given me so far is that of a bigot and a racist, but a mostly rational bigot and racist. At the end of the fuck-a-ton challenge he even admitted that he may give my way of "training slaves" (i.e., treating them as people) some consideration. Not out of the kindness of his heart, mind, for he has none, but simply because it may make economic sense. Greed, in its basic state, is a common source of antisocial behavior, but it also means you have a good lever for positive reinforcement. You just need to make it more profitable to do the right thing.

If, as an author, you want Cornwall to be irredemably evil, greed is not enough. On the other hand, if you just want him to be an asshole, then you are doing a fine job. A couple more instances of him not helping when he could would seal the deal, but we may need to be given a hint of his real reasons for not helping beyond "I am an asshole and I'm okay".

Which is why it makes so little sense that the MC wouldn't at least try to ask Trenero and Cornwall for help.

Now, *I* did not understand this, possibly because of the way the scene was structured (a "your ass is mine now" line somewherre might help), possibly because I just missed it, but I assume that the MC understands that Maria is now the property of the insane doctor who called her Tainted Blood (yes, insane, some of her behavior only makes sense if she's twisted in some way). Thus, his first priority should be to get Maria out of the woman's clutches.

Let me repeat this, because it bears repeating: our friend Maria is now legally property of a person who 1) has clearly shown she loathes and despises half-elves and 2) is trained in how to cause the highest amount of pain with the smallest amount of actual damage.

Yelling at Cornwall should not be he MC's first priority. Making sure that Maria isn't tortured should.

Cornwall is a greedy asshole with the power to remove slaves from a bad master. Offer him enough money (call it a campaign donation) and he'll probably rise to the effort of making a phone call.

Trenero has the money, and has been shown to spend it freely. He would also probably rise to the challenge of making a phone call for the sake of his daughters' (yes plural, Lucia knows Maria too) happiness.

And then you can seal the deal by having Cornwall refuse to help the MC because he can only remove elves from a bad master, not half-elves: unlike elves, who are now officially rabbits, half-elves are still roombas, so you can rape and torture them at will with no legal repercussions.

Hence my question to the MC: dude, your friend is probably screaming as we speak, why aren't you on your fucking knees begging EVERYONE BEGGABLE for help?

You said the MC is not a character like the others, but rather the player's character. Then the player should have an option ask, plead, beg, and sell his soul for the sake of his friend. Or at least it should be made abundantly clear why that is not an option: "but... but... Cornwall is a bad guy!" is not enough: Cornwall is a greedy asshole, Trenero is insanely rich, Kali is rather fond of Maria, put the whole damn thing together.

If Trenero gave Kali 500 bucks to buy a dress, he should be willing to fork out, say, between 10 and 100 times as much, and possibly more, to spare his daughter some emotional pain.

Again, as an author, you may decide that he isn't, and that is fine. It is an additional insight in the character, and makes him significantly darker (ignoring the painn of random strangers is basic human nature - we are doing it right now as we debate the finer poiints of a videogame while people are starving and dying all over the world - but ignoring the pain of people you know and love, or at least like, requires a rather special mindset).

Also, IMO the final line from the doctor, where she says that he can buy her, should proobably make it clearer that Maria now belongs to her, and that she's going to sell her. possibly "After making sure she knows her place", just to seal the deal.

I do have a few other minor qualms with the game, but these are small things that one can make up excuses for with little effort, or at least Not Think About with little effort.

The MC ignoring Maria being potentially tortured to go yell at a politician was not one of them, however: it genuinely ruined my enjoyment of the game, which was otherwise rather high throughout, and of the story, which I actually found rather interesting.

Thank you for giving us that window in the world you created, I appreciate the effort and hope to see more of it. Just, please, don't make me be an asshole :)

RuneyGames3 years ago (2 edits) (+1)

Your messages are waaaaay too long, I just can't be bothered to read everything. I'll respond to the first paragraph.

Cornwall isn't a villain, he's an antagonist. Meaning he is the anti you. Everything he stands for is everything you don't. The player is anti slavery, cornwall is pro slavery.

I'm not creating villains, I'm creating antagonists. Villains are evil, antagonists oppose the protagonists.

If you'd like a more in depth conversation about the lore, we can do that on the harem hotel discord.

Lucky193 years ago

Well, after several years of resisting going on discord, I guess I finally found enough of a motivation

Lucky193 years ago (3 edits) (-1)

So, I am replaying the game (what can I say, I do like it, despite its flaws), and I happened across this gem:

Ashley: "A half-elf baby would be disgusting!"

OK, so... Are we going to let this pass quietly? Because that's a huge boner-killer to me. That's *my child* you are talking about, crazy girl.

This is what I mean when I say we should have the option to call her out on her BS. That is Not OK, not in any way shape or form.

...aaaand next scene:

Juliet: "No, not whatever. You're seriously going to fail Ashley. And you're lke my only friend there..."

This isn't a "call her out on her BS" line, because we don't understand that this is BS. We don't know the story and we are not yet aware of Ashley's mistake This is more of a "punch in the gut the second time you go through it". Because poor Juliet.

And I'm very conflicted about this: it's either amazing storytelling or terrible storytelling.

For the amazing storytelling option: How broken is Ashley that, even after she (supposedly) found some confidence and defeated the twin demons, she still cannot live up to her mistakes? I hope in one of the next updates she finds the courage to apologize to Juliet.

For the terrible storytelling option: Why are you still going on about that? Stop pretending you can't remember the girl's name!

I really want to believe that this is a bit of genius that will shine later on, once Ashley finally makes peace with her past.

Edit: yeah, no, the more I think about it, the better this is. This is BS of the highest order, and yet we don't understand that until later. Poor girls. Both of them.

How do you apologize to your very first friend *whom you've ignored for the last decade and a half"? You are a fucking genius Runey.

Zexian Krutz3 years ago (1 edit) (+1)

Lucky193 years ago

Please expand upon this. I get that you disagree with my assessment, but I do not get why.

Zexian Krutz3 years ago

And you will not get it. We already had disscusion and I know that this is pointless to try.

So, just my reaction on the image above.

RuneyGames3 years ago (5 edits) (+3)

In hopes of not coming off as an asshole, many of the issues you have are explained in game, which I hope I did a good job of doing, you may have just needed to have paid attention a bit more. There are also many cases of your questions being purposefully unanswered until they are written in the story. For example, there are cases of why Cornwall is a bad person, especially with his remade intro, but you haven't seen him at his worst. You've barely even met the dude.

Zexian has it mostly right, so I won't parrot what he said.

Cornwall is a morally dark grey character you haven't seen much of. He was never intended to be a good guy, he's a greedy power hungry politician.

The reason MC got mad at him is because Cornwall is slavery incarnate, he makes the laws regarding slavery, he controls the markets, and he can even take your slave away if he wanted to. Of course, he's not as important as the seat he sits on. Meaning the people need to change their way of thinking to stop electing a minister of slavery.

While you and others may have pieced things together, many also didn't. When you call MC stupid, you're calling many players stupid. If you caught it before the story told you, you should feel proud about that.

This is also explained in the story quite often - slaves are treated as pets. And these doctors really want to keep human genetics intact. In fact, if there are ANY unclaimed elves ANYWHERE, you can pick it up and register it. That's essentially what the doctors did, they stole Her because you never registered her as a slave.

Why Nia was able to do what she did was also explained in game, and she was actually caught if you remember. It wasn't a total success.

Trenero doesn't own his wife, there is no proper slavery outside of Syl'anar. Trenero also doesn't owe you anything and is trying to profit off of slavery. Cornwall is his friend. Trenero is also a fairly bad person for profiting off forced labor. This hasn't been shown off too much in game, but you may be able to piece it together with all that's already in.

Lucky193 years ago (2 edits) (-1)

I will point out, once more, that you did a fine job in making Cornwall an uncaring asshole. Nobody thinks he is a good guy (I believe), we know he is a greedy man who is only interested in his own personal gain. It's just not clear, at least to me, why the MC should hate him personally.

"Not helping" is the resting state of mankind. We are debating the finer points of a videogame while there are actual real live people in concentration camps, right now, being "reeducated" into a differnent culture and way of thinking. I am not going to call myself a good person, for I am aware of that and yet here I am, debating the finer points of a videogame, but i am also not going to hate myself for it.

And if I am not going to hate myself for it, I have a hard time figuring out why the MC would hate Cornwall for essentially doing the same thing.

Edit: Also, I know I have an advantage over the MC because of conservation of detail (if an author takes the time to spell something out in a story, it means something, whereas in real life a detail can, in fact, be meaningless), so just because something is obviious to me it doesn't have to be obvious to the MC (and vice versa), and I will say that making stupid choices doesn't necessarily mean that one is, in fact stupid.

However, some choices (and lack thereof) take on a different hue when subjected to fridge logic.

Andy the Android seemed genuinely upset that Ashley had tried to kill her, and Ashley seemed genuinely upset that it hadn't worked.

I like Ashley, she's proobably my favorite character after Lin, but the fact that she breaks into your room multiple times, effectively rapes you (asking forgiveness rather than permission, when talking about sex, is called rape), multiple times even, tries to roofie you, and even (ostensibly) tries to murder Andy the Android... It's too much.

Mostly because you don't have the option to call her out on each instance, and at least receive an apology. In particular, in the case of the attempted murder, she should make it clear that she knows Androids don't die to logic bombs, and it was, in fact, just a joke.

ad240pCharlie3 years ago

I myself have pointed out that the MC is a bit TOO MUCH of a bland character at times in the execution of the game, but I also understand why it's made that way, something that I'd say Runey has been very open about. I would however agree that there should be an OPTION for some sort of personality in his character, maybe by a bit more dialogue options or ways to alter his reactions to certain things so I will give you that. However, the part about him being stupid for not figuring out certain things or not doing what we might consider the "smart" option might be annoying but understandable from the perspective of trying to write the story. Since he, according to the dev, is supposed to be whoever the player imagines him to be, then he can't canonically figure things out until it's guaranteed that the player has, and since some players will take longer than others to piece it together, the safest bet is to just have him be out of the loop until the reveal happens in-game.

Lucky193 years ago (1 edit) (-2)

I didn't say he's stupid though, I said he seems to miss some obvious clues. Again, I realize that I have the advantage of conservation of detail working in my favor, and that the MC has actually spent days living and working and fucking his harem between one clue and the next, so they will not be as clear in his mind as they may be in mine.

The Fairy thing is a pretty strong example of conservation of detail: the author introduced this out-of-the-blue group of tiny people, and made sure we could get a lot of details about them, thus it must mean something important. The MC is being bombarded by the 24/7 news cycle, so what is and what isn't important may escape him.

However, the sheer risk of any part-elf whose parents are unknown turning out to be a half.elf (and therefore a roomba) should be pretty clear in his mind when he is so worried about his own child (with Lin) becoming somebody's roomba.

Blondie had a pretty strong opinion that Maria should not look into her parenthood. He should at least have had a vague sense of unease, and perhaps tried to convince Maria to wait a couple of days, while he teased some more details out of Blondie, who may very well answer vaguely that she heard stories about orphans turning out to be half-elves and being sold into slavery on the spot.

I can make up *some* excuses for this, but the fewer excuses I have to make up or the MC's behavior the better the story flows. Light SoD is pretty cheap, so handwaving some things is fine, but there is such a thing as the straw that broke the camel's back.

Take Lin's complete lack of cooking skills, for instance: she has *amazing* memory, and close to 300 years of either living on her own in the wild or working for human masters under her belt. How has she never learned how to cook?

That is actually lampshaded by the MC at the very beginning: 300 years and she never learned how to cook?!

We learn why later on: it was a sort of rebellion, possibly unconscious. When she says that she learned to cook because now she had good motivation, it implies that in the past she either had no motivation to learn or actually had some motivation NOT to learn.

Though frankly the entire thing with Lin going from "burns water" to "master chef" in three months or less makes me think that the entire "elves learn slowly" thing is blown way out of proportion. Maybe elves learn differently from humans, and human training doesn't work well on them, or perhaps the people who are trying to teach them treat them like slightly smarter monkeys and don't actually provide good training, or maybe Lin is just that exceptional.

But that is a thing I can easily make up excuses for - I just did after all. It can also be flipped into an additional example of unfounded prejudice, which is always good as part of worldbuilding.

The point is, having to make up *some* excuses is fine, you literally CANNOT explain EVERYTHING in a story. A main plot point depending on the MC missing a clue that was clearly laid out for the players to see, however, is pretty bad, because the players are now feeling railroaded.

Oh, and BTW, I keep saying "roomba" and "fridge", but let's not kid ourself: the actual corret words would be "realdoll" and "onahole". That Lin didn't get raped *once* in 300 years of slavery strains my SoD more than the drones theft. But sure, the author wanted Lin to be "pure" for us, so I'll take that as a gift from God (i.e., Runey) and not question it.

Zexian Krutz3 years ago(-1)

Do not get me wrong. I dont call MC stupid. He is just normal. Too normal to be MC if I can say so. Yes, he represents player, but when you are playing a game you expect to be a little more special than other characters in game. For now I feel that MC is absolutely powerless at everything. Or indifirent sometimes. If he is not great phisicaly and he is not smarter than everyone else I expected him to at least to have so called "the power of money". Even in situation with Maria - he didnt even bother to monitor the slavemarket by himself, he left it to Ellen and didnt even used his own money (I already had a lot of money at this moment and could pay any price, but MC just didnt even tryed to do this very small part by himself). It is like MC do not care at all. Most problems in this game girls solving on theyr own, MC is just somewhere around and do not do anything at all.

This is my only doubt about your game. Too powerless MC. It could be great if he could have a little more action, as when he encouraged Lin after fail with Syliath.

Lucky193 years ago (1 edit) (-1)

Personally, I think the fact that the MC didn't have to monitor the slave market and buy her was just a gameplay and story segregation mechanic, like Lin locking herself in her room while *also* loitering around in the lounge.

The story is that Maria gets home in a reasonable time frame, so having to wait a month to collect the funds breaks immersion worse than having Ellen do all the work. There may be other ways around this, but this seems like the easiest one. It should also be noted that the final Maria event is forced on you, and you cannot delay it, so having to find the money to buy Maria may seem like the game is punishing the player for no reason, if they are not in a good financial spot at the time.

Of course, we do have a ridiculously rich man on speed dial, and it would probably feel somewhat more empowering for the MC is we could call and ask him for help - as his potential son-in-law, or just because a friiend of his dauhter is now being sold as a slave.

Granted it wouldn't be us doing the work, but at least it would be us finding the solution.

It's also a cheap fix, since it doesn't really require any additional images, and it can even work to make Cornwell more of a villain (Trenero offers him money to forcibly take Maria from a bad master, Cornwell refuses because he actually thinks half-elves are worse than animals and should have no rights, so we have to wait uuntil maria is actually sold by her new mistress).

I hope Runey will consider it.

Zexian Krutz3 years ago (1 edit)

No, asking Trenero for help is not what I talked about. I want to see MC as more "usefull" man, not just decoration. I want to see Him as someone who actualy have a possibility to solve problems by himself. Not depanding on a rich father of his girlfriend or anything like this. To tell honestly, I absolutely do not like the idea to ask help from someone, specialy the guy like Trenero. And again, honestly, if there was a possibility to refuse to take this "10000$" from him in Kali's event I would definetely refuse.

Lucky193 years ago (1 edit) (-1)

Err.... You are basically describing a power fantasy, which is... Pretty much the opposite of what this game is about. The MC is a hotel manager, and has the money and power of a hotel manager - which is to say, somewhere between zilch and bupkis.

That is pretty much the entire premise, that you are a small man in a big world, trying to carve out a tiny slice of it for yourself and your girls. You are not going to be the next Trenero, I'll tell you that for nothing.

There is nothing wrong with wanting what you want, mind, it's just that it goes against the premise of *this* game. I wouldn't mind it either, of course, but I don't think it's ever going to happen. And I'm frankly not sure if it *should* happen, story-wise. It's like reading LotR and finding out midway through that Frodo can shoot lightning from his eyes. Cool as that would be, it doesn't make sense in context.

You work with the assets you have. Manager's assets are his slaves, his girls, and the connections that he and his girls have.

Trenero is a billionaire, and he still doesn't quite outright own even the city he's the Mayor of, let alone an entire continent. How much power can a hotel manager with less than 100k to his name really exert?

My take on the MC freeing Maria is: get on your knees and start begging. Because she's about to end up somebody's realdoll, and they are not going to sell her until she's properly "broken in".

Lucky193 years ago(-1)

Also: the story is that Maria gets home. Given the world Runey built, I guarantee that there are more than a few guys out there trawling the slave markets and looking for exactly the kind of merchandise Maria is: a human-looking half-elf who only found out about her heritage as an adult. And they are not looking to give her a cushy job as a receptionist.

Within 24 hours of finding herself on the open Market, Maria will be waking up to dick, and going to sleep to dick, with a smattering of beatings in-between, depending on how much time her master has. And he's sure to make some time, just to "teach it its place in the world".

Waiting for the player to put together the money is not a good idea, especially if we are being told that she doesn't get to designate a preferred home.

Zexian Krutz3 years ago

Ah, I see. Lets end this disscusion. I made it just as example of situation where MC had to do something by himself and you are telling why he couldnt. Ok. Im just realizing that Im talking with myself.

Lucky, we definetely have very different opinions about everything, so there is no point to continue. Lets just leave it for Runey. It is his story and he is creating what he thinks is right. We can like something or not, it is only our own problem.

Lucky193 years ago(-1)

You aren't talking to yourself, you are expressing certain opinions in an open forum.

Opinions that I largely happen to agree with, but that nonetheless may run into certain obstacles at times. I simply pointed out what I believe to be some rather large obstacles to the way you would like the story to go

As i happens, I do enjoy an open discussion, even with people I disagree with. Especially with people I disagree with: if all you hear are comments from inside your own bubble, you'll never have any reason to change your mind, and one should alwas be ready to give up an idea in exchange for a better one.

For instance: I would love to kick the shit out of the assholes who took Maria, and break their asshole droids for good measure, but that is not really the premise of the story: the premise of the story is that we are nobody, just a random hotel manager, and we are doing our best to help our girls in a world that is pretty much custom-made to not let us.

If you disagree with that assessment, I would like to know why.

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