Post by bormoth in Incarnasoul comments

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Well tried to do custom images, and manual is a bit unclear. It would be nice way to export some current character as image reference. So I would not have to guess what traits how to name. This is out of easy if editor is too much to make.

Also I assume extraReqs are those that required for image even used.

but extraPrefs part is confusing what makes it different from tags used outside like skincolour, strength and such. Like Extra prefs is similarity check, to to find closest image to the current stats, but what are floating in main numbers. I would assume it is appearance values but strength is a trait so not fit.

Also are images can only take existing traits or you can do cast there self image values, because if yes syntax would be a bit confusing. I assume it is not the case because there was no need for this.

tirelesslurker8 days ago

There's some example files here that might help; Emily on discord has created some image packs which might be good to look at as well.

Extra reqs is extra requirements, yeah.

Extra prefs are intended to be used for extra stuff that's not built in - i.e. the code is setup to take a hair colour value and uses it to create a check (along with applying weights on the check that hopefully make it feel good when transforming characters). Extra prefs can be added on top of this for other traits that aren't built in. All three (requirements, preferences and the built-in checks) are used to tally a value for how closely an image matches a character, with the highest value (best match) being used.

Checks work off the current traits of a character rather than self image, but you can create a check that looks at someone's self image instead (it's a check that looks at the self image trait, more or less) so it's technically possible to do that as well.

bormoth8 days ago

Was thinking of memories which self image looks performs as. Like how they saw themselves. And being first step of transformation. Maybe silly idea. Considering syntax, might be more complicated because you need point that is self image, and then what it points on it and strength.

And thanks for pointing out. I understand sometimes code works not way you thought but I felt like part which built in is working way better more clean. But maybe those are more rich than in game guide hints. So thanks for link on examples it is super useful. Probably the best way to learn is to change a bit things and see what part I change than does not work. Not sure my custom character mod even loaded when I tested. So would have things to work with something that I know works for sure. Sadly a bit more personal customisation to make things more fun As souls become perfect family. Or brothel. Thanks.

Also I feel like Essense warper and real shaper not really useful realm shaper I found only one use to unseal realms. Essense warper probably can be skipped as starting character. Also I feel. Like too much power is given early game. Triad of mesmer/hypnotist, mind writer and body shaper you can do almost anything. Essense warper is limited to random application of TF items and a bit limited early game.

Other classes feel a bit off but I have not played enough like bimbomancer/himbomancer class is too slow even slower than cursed gear. And it is even slower than just using hypnotist and or training pair. (maybe it changes some important checks too short cutting need to apply and hurt relations with mind writing and hypnosis for some jobs but feels inefficient.)

Corruptor/purifier also might be limited of use to purify/corrupt for quests, but again with essense warper might be no a problem not saying getting angel or demon is almost trivial, and you get those memories dominantly in those realms. Maybe some special demon variety or angel variety that can only be gained through those classes. Because demons even not hard to get. Just one suit and brawl and you can generate like 10 demon incarnations with just random incarnation you do not care who you can just banish after.

Also races seem not used a lot, some benefit from goblins but usually it is whatever.Or I am missing something, no haven had racial traits but you could shape and mold far less there. In your game races feel a bit more like cute additions.

Maybe make exploration outcomes depend on race that does it, or maybe outcomes a bit shaped based on racial interests. Probably too convoluted for player to notice and engage. But something to make races unique enough gameplay wise. Though again there are a lot of mostly cosmetic things which would not be engaged much like self image, or loves but have some effect it seems. And race might be a good way to enjoy game for cosmetics reasons. But again I have not engaged in game enough to realize how engaging racial differences are. Mostly learned river of souls.

Some activities in bimbo conflux are just... How to say, less productive just than sending your incarnation on day rest. But maybe I do not understand how they work and purpose. Though 1 rare assignment is interesting, if you have no mind writer. Maybe rest part is just side effect.

Loved some cursed gear good early game source of guaranteed knowledge you might need. But some assignment items again because how easy you can train properly seem useless. Same with body shaping caskets they seem ok, somewhat useful to change sex for quick assignment completion but usually too convoluted to use effectively, only few ones that allow quick cheat certain assignments or classes. Maybe make it like insurance for your character so if realm changes you can one time restore saved changes.

I feel for better or worse (I like you can mold your souls and incarnations) all power to shape perfect incarnations and souls early game hurts both progression and many other game elements. Because first 100-200 turns are all spent to optimize first money earners and then main shaping caste, invalidates many items that substitute for skill checks, and makes feel all endgame power front loaded except essense warper.

So either most items get removed or become certain purpose/cursed gear shortcuts to training. Some cursed gear is surprisingly good at acquiring certain knowledges that you lack for free. One way to balance is limit amount of modding you can do by levels, to make you pick what gear to equip(charges should be easy to restore without micromanagement then except, certain special gear), and make cascade changes less possible. (level limit amount of added perks so you need remove existing or gain level up with target. to make main triad less powerful.)

bormoth8 days ago (1 edit)

I understand game is still in alpha so not still feature complete which might nudge and destroy balance of mechanics, but certain mechanics just do not click or too bothersome to use like items(unless autoequip make your incarnations multiclass I guess and use items to solve contradictions. But sounds more bothersome long run than just train new incarnation.) There some items worth using though because they allow you to cheat whole game early enough before you have your set of workers.

Less chaotic class distinction I like in this game so it is easier to satisfy at least core requirements unlike no haven(which is navigational hell for new players to understand what to look for). But also low amount of classes means it is easier to form one team for everything and it be perfect. So your game is special and I feel needs some rethinking how it would work. And what is redundant and what is good.

Some long term goals I Feel would be good.

(If items was source of unique tags would be better work.) Special trainings require to be active certain traits but required for assignments, so you use equipment to substitute those to keep training active during assignments (and solve contradictions). Certain racial traits/knowledges/items (already some of it present)Would make some races better.

Some noose on most powerful traits so you would not get to use them too often too easily. So you can still do everything(if it is desired) but it is not from get go: "here are 3 main pillars now go craft perfect team as long as you can support upkeep." Something you gain as game progresses, something you work early with but little by little regain that power do changes as you develop or find teachers. (maybe research mechanic or some assignments that trains new things for your classes unlocking and sometimes requiring todo quite unique and hard assignments that might have consequences on success or failure to break teams and having to come to those assignments with some creativity)

No haven had some classes that could add traits extremely rare requiring risky assignments which were hard to do even with strong high level characters with good trait intersection reliably or just be super lucky, and they were already quite rare.

P.S. Oh no wonder image sets did not work I had wrong syntax. It seems I can use character exports for this from templates, would need to edit syntax a bit.

tirelesslurker7 days ago

Starting with tf capable characters - There's an option to not start with them and instead have a random set of characters, the default is just so transformations are accessible early.

Realm Shaper - It's primarily used for expanding the realm, which gives you more empty land (building slots). It's also needed for a couple of missions.

Essence Warper - There's actually a lot locked behind essence warper and the Ritual Ground upgrades (fusion and most species changes amongst them); it isn't useful for regular tfs but there's a lot that need it (it might actually be overloaded).

Monster girl races - Yeah, they're a bit thin; they were content additions for a while but need some more features. I have some interesting ideas for robots (and some variants off robots) for later but it's something that generally needs improving (when I get to it, my list is huge haha).

I've made a couple of notes based on the other stuff you've mentioned, thanks for all the feedback :)

bormoth6 days ago

mhm essense warper is pretty good balanced shape. It does not feels overpowered. You can get a lot with them. But fusions usually do not really something feels necessary considering you can edit stuff. But essense ripping and and species change require a random item. Which is kinda overshadowed with body exchange. Can take interesting essense character and just put into any captured body of race. I guess a bit slower because need retrain new body. But considering how hard to find race change items it feels good trade off.

I just feel all those transformation classes you get just makes a lot of rewards uninteresting. Like you can get those incarnations and souls... why bother unless you need some race you just can get at river of souls. So it becomes kinda redundant to hunt anywhere else for souls. (even if they have unique traits.) Maybe for knowledge if certain realms and assignments more likely give you some different knowledge, like builders and architectors, or warriors. But even then.

Same goes for energy and matter. Ok it is good to have few assignments here and there. Fairy tail realms having fate income assignments... now I felt it would be a theme and it is cool. You go to all places where miracles fated to happen, and kinda twist fate in your favor. Thought there would be more of that sort. Especially quite few assignments revolve around literally ruining fate of the realm.

Speaking of realm shaper soul power here is little idea. Dynamic realms including your own. Could be something simple as set of tags that might happen depending on what assignments you do in realm. Realm shaper allows to fix things back, or shift realm assignment probabilities in favor if you spawn task with them.

Up to shifting certain balance and adding some assignments based on one or another but again might be too hard to come up with fun assignments for this.

But so many fun things, what happens if you do happen to bring demon candy curse on river of souls. Or heaven vs hell balance. Or conspire with scientists and bring certain "relics" to other real maybe fairy tale real to make them seal those and add few assignments as they go over zealously to seal forbidden knowledge that ruins their realm.But again that one sounds too big goals to do. But even something simple as changing odds maybe assignment or two may appear. Or some assignments become more or less rewarding or souls/incarnations gain certain traits now coming from certain assignments.

tirelesslurker5 days ago

I'm unsure whether it will help with the things you find off balance, but I do plan to do a balance pass eventually (just in a while after there's a lot more content).

Dynamic stuff I've played with (monster girl caves specifically); it didn't work out well and hasn't proved popular so I'll probably not do anything in that vein for a while.

Deeply messing with realms on the regular (either altering them deeply or ruining them) are both a bit beyond the level of power the player has. The 'mess with by x' ideas are interesting, but they're the kind of thing that's easy to fall into a one off - it's a broad concept I might do something like at some point, but it'll probably be something like a repeatable exploit or a third party wants you to do it and has reason to want you to repeatedly.

bormoth4 days ago (1 edit)

Oh do not worry just giving my feedback for something that feels essential design. But it is good for now you ignore most of balance, while at alpha. Would be not worth if new mechanic might change everything. Change how some items work and suddenly blacksmith becomes different. Or some other mechanic change, might make bimbomancer/himbomancer or corruptor and such much stronger or having own niche compared to main classes. But I still feel they overshadow, so I pointed about it now because it might make balancing them later hard because what they are now.

Also it is more like you do things that change balance of things. So you send realm shaper who knows what laws of realms you broke by your own intervention or how to intervene to alter realm in correct way. (you do not shape in way that change them fundamentally. Like one person can't change everything in such big system without desire of such system, but it might be knowledgable enough to know what needs to be changed to change it) If you know what I mean.

Mess around with fairy tale realm enough and all heroes that get caught by Villains due to their fate suddenly become less powerful for some Villain start strong enough to turn things darker if not forever for quite a while. Not something integral but something shading realm in other way. Give heroes questionable way to beat Villain like some curse which spreads, and you maybe have not realm of those harem people, but there is a problem. You need to work with realm to make it possible. But it is in big way from development.

What I wanted to proose in short, is shifting a bit what assigments might happen or what rewards might have. But again it is your vision what is large or small and what power you have over realms. And if not other realms your realm done and happen maybe something like special curses in your realm which thematically funny(not fun for your incarnations or souls maybe) but maybe useful for you as owner or other things. It might be not curses, but mechanic is the same as current realm curses.

Anyway thanks for fun times should stop don't think farther discussion would give you anything useful from me but if I would find something would write in new post.

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