Post by redonihunter in What questions can we ask here in the Support section? - itch.io

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redonihunter4 days ago

Please cite a case where that probably become an actual never. Please include the circumstances. Like, was it software piracy? Other things like selling illegal content. Not paying taxes. Fraudulent activites. Incorrect adresses?

Waiting long is not the same as never. And waiting time between businesses can be a huge lot long.

Putting a "probably" bevore the never still implies that they do this regularly. Not paying out at all. They take a long time and there were communication issues about what hinders a payout. Read here https://itch.io/t/5345077/important-payout-or-tax-related-issues-read-here-no-th...

But what you are discussion with the mod is just, that these are issues that are not within the scope of the message board. It is individually for your case. Here you will only get general statements, like check your taxes right down to the zip codes used.

ELECTRIC BLACK SHEEP4 days ago

The word "probably" implies that they do this regularly. Yes! Even if it's not intentional, it happens regularly. Yes they do it regularly! Not allways but happens a lot! You just have to search for it here on the forum or other mediums. Can you communicate with them on the official channels? No (No response)!
Your examples are good, but I will add the details of my case if some official source finally shareing me those details.
Waiting long is not the same as never! True, but if you have been told that that would take only 1-2 week, then nothing, and after montht still nothing and ignoring all your questions and official attempts to solve it (5months) is complete lack of competence!

"there were communication issues" ? There still are! I did not get any response to my tickets regarding the payment delay!
"It is individually for your case" No!

Things are escalating becouse the lack of communication from the official support.
- I 've made all the neccesery settings (if not , at least they should answer to my ticket)
- No official communication in my case (and please read the forum, there are others like me).

I know that this is a "I want to speak to your manager" attitude, but they (lack of official communication) leaves no other option!

redonihunter4 days ago

Yes! Even if it's not intentional, it happens regularly. Yes they do it regularly!

What you describe is people complaining that it took ages for payout. That is not the same as them not paying out at all. You claim they do such things.

Please cite occurances of that happening.

ELECTRIC BLACK SHEEP4 days ago

one example is "pixelpaperyarn" on my other topic:

https://itch.io/t/5785856/ive-been-waiting-for-my-payment-for-5-months-now-ive-c...

ELECTRIC BLACK SHEEP4 days ago

and

Jimmy Vegas Studio:

Vintage Story: https://www.thegamer.com/indie-game-vintage-story-sales-halted-itchio-massive-mo...

ELECTRIC BLACK SHEEP4 days ago

Because apparently this one phrase really caught your attention, (i don't want to be misinterpreted) I did a simple Google search:

"Probably never get paid" means there's a high likelihood you won't receive money for work done or a loan given, often because the person or entity responsible for payment isn't reliable, has no intent to pay,.."

redonihunter4 days ago

has no intent to pay

Exactly. That's the thing. Being unable to pay, because the tax company or the payment processor is making problems, is not intent to not pay. And being slow and having bad communication with the hired companies is also not intent to not pay.

You just do not know why your or other payments are being held. It's part of the issue and cause for frustration. And it is also the main cause why such things are not to be discussed in public message boards. They just cannot answer you here and say, hey, we have some very dubious transactions on your account and some agency is looking very closely here and accuse you and us of money laundering. Or, hey, you sure you made correct statements here in your tax info and your registration info? And why are there so many complaints on your account of people that claim you scammed them? Or hey, why did you register your company in a different country than your payment destination? Things like that. And my guess is, that the most problems are taxes and maybe even money laundering investigations. Itch has pay what you want and suspicously looking things could happen easily. Transactions over a certain sum are monitored and will get extra scrutiny. Plus you might have noticed how the US government went extra crazy about tarifs and so on.

Anyway, intent to not pay would be fraudulent. And I go with the proverb, never attribute to malice what can be sufficiently be explained by inability. In other words, I do not believe that Itch wants to not pay you and other creators. But Itch is ... indie. You see this at many places. But for better or worse, it is bascially the best place for indie devs, because it is the only place. Most devs here would not be accepted at places like GameJolt, let alone Steam.

Please read the statement about payment issues.

... will take you to a special page where you can submit a request directly within your dashboard without writing an email. Your message will be associated with your account and payout, enabling our staff to review your requests more efficiently. Tickets created through this link will be monitored by the staff that processes payouts, instead of going into our regular support queue.

That's the right channel to complain.

ELECTRIC BLACK SHEEP4 days ago

..and my tax info validation status is "Validated" too (months ago).

ELECTRIC BLACK SHEEP4 days ago

From my perpective: In a way we are business partners (me and itch.io)! They prividing a platform and a can sell content there. I bring money to theit pocket, they have their share of percentage, a part of it goes to taxes but the rest of it is mine. As soon as we reached the "rest of it is mine" part (obviously something gone wrong somewhere) they don't communicating.
I've come to the ONLY official ITCH channel that i can write to and someone at least reading it, maybe answer (even if it is not helping)!

None of that happens if they handeling these cases professionally.

Paymeout4 days ago (1 edit)

If itch thinks it is dirty money, doesnt that make them the criminals they are working against? Or it is the software dirty and the money is clean?.. and they have the right to keep it?

ELECTRIC BLACK SHEEP4 days ago

Actually it makes sense to withold the money (payment processor or else) if they smell some illegal activity. But in that case no illegal activities on my side. My Paypal account is working properly, so there is nothing stops them to transfere the payout. I suspect I would have received some kind of notification that they tried to transfer money, but it didn't work... but nothing came. Neither money nor message.

redonihunter4 days ago

If it were not obvous that you are bored, and decidedly not angry, and try to troll your way through support threads, it would be an interesting question.

What happens to the money, if payout cannot happen, because it was decided that the project was not owned by the account that sold it. I saw such a case of software piracy. It was a game and the same game was sold by a different account at a cheaper price.

My assumption would be, that refunds would have to be issued to the buyers. Or compensation would be due to the original owner. Some digging on search hints that this is basically what should happen in such cases. Refunds and should any be left, compensation to the original owner.

Cases where Itch would deny payout might be such cases. Indeed, some cases where Itch just takes ages to process the payout could be cases where allegations were made, but could not yet be decided.

ELECTRIC BLACK SHEEP4 days ago (2 edits)

You call me a troll? Please! Dont mock me, I am not bored!
As i stated multiple times it is a serious issue for me (and for others as well)!
I don't sell any projects. See it for yourself! All of my project are free (but donatable)!

Now here is your part to prove:
Which of my projects was stolen (by me) or where else does the (original ) copyright holder sell my project? (Dont make accusations!)

The moderator warned me not to make assumptions. I can advise you the same.
I don't know if they "deny payout" or whatever, but at leas they can comunicate on their official Support line (tickets). But nothiing!

"some cases"?
"just takes ages to process the payout "
Are you serious?! Then change the "..takes 10 to 14 days for our team to review the payout" message hanging near their payout button! I am at 5months.

If i may: You seemingly defending them very one sided (and you have knowledge about "Cases" but previusly you ask me to give you examples). You make all the negative assumptions appear on my side. Why is that so obvious to you that i have to make something wrong?

redonihunter3 days ago

No, I did not. You need to look at the indentation of replies.

ELECTRIC BLACK SHEEP3 days ago

Ok ..and there is no list of copyrighted project either! Are we good?

redonihunter3 days ago (2 edits)

I did not understand what you mean by that list thing. I guess much is lost in translation here.

If you refer to the game I mentioned, it was a game that is also on Steam. It is sold here too and for some time a version of the game was sold for cheaper price from a different account. It is an older game, so it might have gone unnoticed for a while. What exactly was going on I do not know. But the game disappeared after reports, so I assume it really was software piracy. Or an attempt of it. Meaning that someone actually tried to make money by selling it.

But this is going offtopic.

Edit:

You seem to have trouble following the flow of a threaded discussion with sub threads. You need to look at who replied to whom. I did not talk to you. I replied to that question about the money situation of frozen payouts. (Same as you did, and since both replies are directly under each other, you mistook that as the second posting to be an reply to your post).

In my answer I remembered an example I personally saw. There is no way to interpret it as talking about your games. Unless there is something like translation problems. English is not my native language, and I think that goes for you too.

ELECTRIC BLACK SHEEP3 days ago

You previously made an assumption:
"My assumption would be, that refunds would have to be issued to the buyers. Or compensation would be due to the original owner. Some digging on search hints that this is basically what should happen in such cases. Refunds and should any be left, compensation to the original owner."
You answered to me, to my post. At that point of conversation you did not clerify that you are talking about some other game (you not name) or whole different store and some (real/fictional) users or case. But in the end you definitely refering ti itch as a store. (not "steam", no specifics ). If there was a game that i also have in my store then please share the info with me.
"Cases where Itch would deny payout might be such cases."

After that, in my answer I asked you: "Which of my projects was stolen (by me) or where else does the (original ) copyright holder sell my project?(Dont make accusations!) "

Your answer was :"No, I did not. .."
Then I don't understand what you replied to either! I suspected it was against the accusations arguments.

It's hard to follow your train of thought when you're writing in generalities. You ask questions and expecting exact answers to, but you give general answers to others' (like mine). You answering to my post and don't mention that you are talking about some unrelated event (as if it has something to do withme ) . I don't care if it is going "OFF TOPIC", but please do not connect me to some criminal activity.
So yes, it was about the last thing you wrote. About "software piracy" which has nothing to do with me.

I also assume that that was not intencional. "Are we good?"

Paymeout3 days ago (3 edits)

Angry? You call him a troll in his own topic? You are part of the problem!

"It was a game and the same game was sold by a different account at a cheaper price."

What software? On whoes account? Where? I want to know specifics! Cheaper? Every software is free in his site! So I think the money is from donations!?

redonihunter3 days ago

No, I called your behaviour trolling. That was a reply to your post.

Every software is free in his site!

And this is why I still think you are trolling, with statements like that.

On the happy side, your employers issue was resolved. And luckily no information was given who that is. Because that's part of the reason, why this is ususally not to be discussed in the public section. Seems your employer used a payout option that is not to be used with paypal/payoneer. Let's hope your employer does not use any special options when paying you.

Last time I had discussions with someone ranting about Itch being a thiefing company, it turned out to be invalid tax validation. Those expire after like 3 years or maybe less. Sure, Itch could do a better job at giving notice about any problems with special options or invalid information. The expired tax thing should have beeen improved at least.

Paymeout3 days ago (3 edits)

Ohhh... After I reported that "someone" messing with my topic and I think a simple member can not do that!?... that is not mentioned. But finaly someone listened. And yes. Communication should be better from the source to awoid these kind of situations. And you waited for a whole 15 minutes to tell me that? Thank You.

If it is solved then should be visible for others to see to know that there is hope. Since Iam not the one who closed my other topic...

I am still interested why is that trolling if it is true and it is for benefits of me and my partner? In my eyes a troll is a person who is destructive without any reason... But I had one. Ohhh.. and every software is free to download!

redonihunter3 days ago

... why ... what ... please make sense if you write.

Your use of sarcasm or whatever that was, is not helping to understand you better. Or distinguish honest discussion from fishing for reactions.

Since you did not even notice, that I replied to you, it is questionable what you thought you have seen in the other thread. Maybe you mistook something for something else. But it does not matter. Your topic is your topic and your issue is solved anyway.

I honestly do not know why not more such support threads are archived away. They are off topic for the section. They really should rename the section.

Paymeout3 days ago (1 edit)

Not about you....

Sort version...

This was a pretty big mess that happened here. We reported that we had a problem but we were just told to leave because no one would pay attention to us anyway, we wouldn't get any help here. Since there are shortcomings on Itch's part, this was also discussed...tried to. From there it almost turned into a witch hunt. What is irritating to me is that members misinterpreted the facts we wrote and made statements that are not true. And this is manipulation that we should not allow and the problem with this is that we overcomplicate the simple thing that we are here for. I asked the moderator who did this several times not to do it. What ultimately blew the fuse was that I saw the moderators name as the creator of my own topic, so I reported him because someone manipulated it. (I think it was the moderator but who knows, ...sadly I can not check.) They immediately reinstated it and interestingly, the payment problem was also solved... so someone listened, we managed to draw attention and get help. Case solved. So the moderator was wrong about this too. I would have liked a simpler solution.

Sövény Imre3 days ago (2 edits)

Then I think they would first notify and report the problem to EBS, not just simply return it to the senders, otherwise how would Itch know if the concern is legitimate or not?!

They don't sent any notification that there is any problem, otherwise I'm sure Ich would report to EBS straight away. That is why I think that the problem is not that. I won't overcomplicate it further. The money wasn't transferred back. It's still in the account.

So... What else can we figure out if the cause of the pending can only point to EBS?