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redonihunter157 days ago(+2)

The glorification qualifier is indeed a problematic one. I have yet to see such a game. Please do not link examples. Rape and abuse are plot devices to make something brutal and vile. Even if the victims would give into the abuse, how would that glorify the act. But it is moot to discuss this part of the ban.

You only need to take the incest part. It is not even illegal in most places. Just a social taboo. Is there a glorification qualifier there? For the abuse they could flimsily justify it with the fallacy of how crimes in fiction cause crimes in real life (this is disproven). But with incest it is just a ban on something they do not like.

Oh, and yeah, there is glorified incest (and rape) in the Bible. The aftermath of Sodom's destruction has daughters sleep rape their father to have children. Those people were the ones that God did not smite...  And by definition that is not even a fictional setting, but a guideline Book. They absolutely should ban the Bible for its content.

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Dont care any more. All Eyes on Handala.157 days ago (3 edits)

Edited my original post so people know I am not defending the bible.

The glorification qualifier is indeed a problematic one. I have yet to see such a game. Please do not link examples.

I will respect your request not to link examples. For people seeking examples, they are overflowing on cg pornography sites. If you want to know how's its glorified, victims are portrayed as objectified bodies to master and not characters who deserve empathy.

.

As for incest, I must admit I am confounded by how many people have come forward insisting it can be consentual. Incest is a form of abuse that takes advantage of the trust between relatives. Incest in the real world always involves coercion, violence, and/or children. This includes historic incest such as inbreeding in royal families.

Fictionalised depictions often write in that mutual desire and consent are there. This does not happen in reality. The fantasy of consentual incest has caused its real victims to face victim blaming and ostracization.

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redonihunter156 days ago(+1)
If you want to know how's its glorified, victims are portrayed as objectified bodies to master and not characters who deserve empathy.

That's objectifcation, not glorification. Glorification is when you get praise for an action. Portraing an action as something to strive for. Just portraing something as matter of fact is not glorifying it. It can be described as downplaying or making light of it. But again, that's not glorification.

To bring a fictional example. The Ferengi in Star Trek glorify commerce. They strive for more and more money. So it could be said, that in this fictional world that greed is glorified. Although it is from the perspective of the humans, and they do not share those values. The humans glorify diplomacy (not TOS ;-)

Incest is not a code word for rape between family. Incest just means sexual relations between close blood relatives. If you count cousins, those can even marry. And just like non-incest relations, you can have those with consent - but usually not with social acceptance. Baring the cousin marriage.

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Dont care any more. All Eyes on Handala.156 days ago (2 edits)

If a victim is denied empathy and objectified as a body to master, the mastery of their body becomes glorified. This is the narrative rape fiction in pornography tells. Your example does not match the narratives I am describing.

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Incest is a word to describe a rape that occurs when familial relationships are exploited for sexual abuse.

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redonihunter156 days ago (1 edit) (+3)

The words glory and incest do not convey the meaning for which you applied them. 

The word glory has religious roots. It basically means that glowing saint's halo. So gloryfication is likening something to something holy. What you described is many things, but not gloryfication. Gloryfication is the extra step to make something good even more splendid. It is not getting praise, it is getting very great praise. Mere praise is not enough to invoke glory. It is not treating something as being better as it really is, it is treating something already splendid as even more splendid. 

Incest is a neutral word in regard to consent. It specifies blood relation. Cousin marriage is incest. About 10% of all marriages world wide are incest marriages. The statistics is a bit distorted by some regions having up to 50% and other near 0%.  If a blood relative commits sexual abuse, you get incest on top, but you can't use them as synonyms.

glorify

to cause to be or treat as being more splendid, excellent, etc., than would normally be considered.

to honor with praise, admiration, or worship; extol.

incest

sexual intercourse between closely related persons.

the crime of sexual intercourse, cohabitation, or marriage between persons within the degrees of consanguinity or affinity wherein marriage is legally forbidden.

glory

very great praise, honor, or distinction bestowed by common consent; renown.

adoring praise or worshipful thanksgiving.

the splendor and bliss of heaven; heaven.

a ring, circle, or surrounding radiance of light represented about the head or the whole figure of a sacred person, as Christ or a saint; a halo, nimbus, or aureole.

---

That commentor blocked me, after dropping some insults.

The usage of words was and is incorrect, no matter if someone gets angry about being corrected about it. If a discussion is about "incest", but someone means "incestual rape", misunderstandings will occur. Same if something is called "glorification", but meant is "trivialization and objectification".

I hope people like that do not enjoy killing murder death games, because according to such logic that would mean their brain is rotten by all that murder gloryfication that is happening in every rpg, shooter, platformer, right down to harmless Mario games where it is ok to kill little creatures by stomping them to death. One is even awarded points and high scores for such activtiy. (Should the post be edited or deleted, there were ad hominems against basically all people that might play questionable games, because their brains got rotten by doing that.)

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Deleted post156 days ago
Deleted 155 days ago
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Frouste156 days ago(+3)

You never were interested in discussing this honestly. This is an observation.

If you really wanted to prove us wrong, then you could have published an unaltered copy of the KJV Bible on this site. But since you made your own opinions clear, you won't even try.

What a shame.

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Dont care any more. All Eyes on Handala.156 days ago (6 edits)

I am not interested of apologism for real world incest.

I was answering questions under the assumption I was talking to someone who was somehow genuinely naive. Now that is is clear that was not the case, idgaf.

Incest is practiced by actual puritanical christofascists

Why would I post some book I hate.

👿

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voidtninja155 days ago(+4)

and this, ladies and gentlemen of the audience:  is how you instantly destroy any point you were making in a discussion.

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Frouste155 days ago(+1)

Doesn't it seem strange that the only posts they have on their account are on this particular forum topic?

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redonihunter155 days ago(+2)

I care little about such things. I believe that statements are irrelevant from who makes them. It is fallacy territory, if you give credit to an argument because of who made it. Same for discredit.

That's why using words wrong and using non arguments bothers me. I like reason and reasoning. Using words wrong makes reasoning non sensical. If handal wants to talk about how vile incest is, ok. But handal seems to think that incest means to abuse your own kids (or parents if you look at what happened in the Bible), while the rest of the world thinks that brother and sister getting it on, is incest. Also cousins marrying is incest too and rather common. One cannot have a discussion, if people talk about different things but use the same word.

But at this point, handal is just trolling and venting. Or using yet another word wrong. Did you look at that link where supposedly christian fanatics would practice incest? It is an problematic event for other reasons, neatly outlined in the article, but incest is not among those problems. It is a fathers and daughters dance event and comes from those virginity pledging crazes.

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Frouste155 days ago (2 edits) (+1)

They presumed much and chose to use broad judgement, aaaand now I can't reply to them.
Unless they try to swat me, that slanderous troll is not my problem anymore.
I chose to be as civil as I could, maybe engaging was the wrong move.

Addendum: I notice they have kept editing every post. We can't shouldn't argue with someone willing to edit posts to be "correct" all the time. Engaging with them was a bad call.

On a different note: just the name of that link alone creeps me out. Really, I didn't ask about it and I didn't look.


Edit 2: corrected grammatical error

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No Time To Play155 days ago(+1)

Please refrain from abusive language. We've had enough of that lately.

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Dont care any more. All Eyes on Handala.154 days ago

"I can forgive incest but draw the line at 'abusive' language" ass post.  Feckless moderation. I want to be clear here that I was being rude to people advocating for incest in real life. Not just chuds asserting their grotesque intent to create the worst fiction possible, but incest in real life. This site deserves to get fucked, if you let pro-incest advocates run around here.

I hate NEETs I hate fandomites I hate forums debate culture I hate respectability politics.

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