Just stumbled across this and had a blast. Just like the old classics (but slightly more forgiving). Did a quick write up:
New Retro Games
Recent community posts
I am completely stuck trying to get alien hearts. Even when the alien's shield goes down after 5 attacks (def goes down from 25 to 3), even with exotic gun (dmg: 14) damage is completely blocked. Is this a bug?
Glad to see the full game finally out! Played it and what a trip! Unfortunately I could not see the ending after getting to 200% due to a graphical glitch - everything is super zoomed in and I can't navigate properly or see what I am doing.
Maybe if I saw that it would clear it up but, I have the feeling the ending doesn't end up explaining anything? Is the time loop and what is happening ever actually explained?
Love it! Reminds of when shareware games in the 90s did Christmas versions.
Been seeing your regular updates, sounds like the game has come a long way. I've been waiting before playing again - any new updates in the near future or is now a good time to jump back into the game?
Wow these are awesome updates! New traps, new class, final boss? Also really cool to see "Holy magic that heals normal character damages undeads."Awesome.
I hope "Each characters can equip accessories. (Like ring or boots ..)" was encouraged by my feedback :D
Looking forward to playing thru again and trying to reach the final boss
Stumbled across this game in the Itch devlogs, and was surprised how much content is already there. Can't wait for more updates!
Only real problem I encountered was the path-finding of trade wagons, they tended to ignore roads and go off and get stuck in a corner between buildings. I tried setting waypoints but they also paid them no attention.
Judging by the title, the Bronze Age and bronze upgrades will be final era in the game? Or will it later go further e.g. iron and steel?
Wrote an article on my blog: https://newretrogames.wordpress.com/2018/07/16/bronze-age/
Haha, hopefully my blog will bring new challengers. I don't have much time to manage the blog unfortunately.. it used to get around 1,000 views a week, but probably less now since I rarely update it.. but hopefully you get some downloads out of it!
Awesome, really amazing how you updated the game so fast. Being able to sell items to the shop and increased inventory size are really nice additions.
I have now finally beat the game, and wrote an article on my blog at: https://newretrogames.wordpress.com/2018/06/12/sigma-finite-dungeon/
Hope that it helps more people to find the game!
My final thoughts:
- Classic tactical combat! Exactly what I was looking for.
- Difficulty felt right, I needed to make good use of all my abilities to survive combats.
- The variety of classes is really good and adds re-playability.
- There is a really nice variety of skills and spells.
- It was always exciting to find a Skill Master or Scrolls (which I could use to learn or upgrade spells).
And a few "wishlist" items, if you ever plan to expand the game further:
- There's a nice range of weapons but I didn't find many equipment upgrades and in general equipment didn't add much depth. In my three playthroughs, I tended to find some better equipment on the 2nd or 3rd floor (usually after the boss fight), and after that all the items dropped or in shops were usually worse than my current equipment, until near the end of the game. Maybe more variety of equipment types (e.g. helms, amulets, boots) in addition to weapon and armour would help provide more chances for upgrade options. Also, equipment with more variety of effects (e.g. attributes like strength or dex, some grant skills/spells, or some grant abilities like boots that increase moving +1 distance or archer gloves that increase the range of bow attacks, etc. ) would add more reason to invest in equipment and make strategic choices over equipping your team.
- Since you can now sell items to the shop, to balance things it's probably necessary to lower the amount of gold dropped by enemies / at the end of battle. I ended the game with about 6,000 gold, even after buying every skill and every useful item in shops.
- Another healing class would be cool, for example the solider could promote to paladin with defensive abilities and heal.
Found some bugs:
- Summoned a Jelly onto a square that had a coin on it. The jelly didnt appear though, and the game continued as normal for a bit. At some point, the game CTD (crash to desktop, no error msg). Every time I reload, it repeats the last turn before crashing again. My guess is its supposed to be the summoned Jelly's turn but since it couldn't spawn (because the gold was on the square), it bugged out. This also means I can't continue and have to start a new game :(
- One time one of my guys died during a tense battle. I quit the game in rage and reloaded the next day. In the battle, the enemies which killed the guy would attack the dead guys corpse every turn. Interestingly, my characters could also attack the corpse, and get EXP for it. Not sure what happened, but I guess it's something to do with closing the game just as a character dies?
- When I promote a character, the class promote buttons are still present on the left side, clicking one crashes the game (CTD). E.g. I promoted my "novice archer" to "archer", and both the novice archer and archer buttons were still visible. I clicked "archer" again and got a CTD.
- I wouldn't mind more traps and hazards in the levels (maybe more things like water or pits to push enemies into). At present I have not had much opportunities to make use of traps or barrels with the push, drag, etc commands very often.
- Inventory size feels small for a game where you can have 5+ characters. I think having a limited inventory size is good in general, so that you have to choose what to carry and what to drop, but ideally would prefer at least twice the size (maybe through upgrades at the shop)
- On that note, also being able to sell stuff would be really awesome.
All in all, great game. Aside from the top bug, has been an overall smooth experience and have been enjoying immensely. Hope these reports help!
Really like this game. I was writing a long detailed post about my thoughts before accidentally refreshing the page and now its all gone, forever.
So instead now I'll just say its a nice mix of party-based tactical battles with dungeon crawling.
Is it infinite or is there a final dungeon floor?
Been enjoying the game a lot and the latest update is great! The "sneak peek" on containers is a godsend.
Found a couple of bugs/glitches:
Browser: Chrome Version 65.0.3325.181 (Official Build) (64-bit)
- Sometimes the character gets stuck in place & starts walking on the spot, and you can't move at all. Opening and closing the inventory seems to "reset" it and you can move normally again. It seems random- couldn't determine if there was a specific trigger that causes it.
- Some enemies (droids) seem to resume moving around after killing them, but the sprite is all glitchy, seeming to flick between its normal and dead sprites. Walking up to them doesn't trigger combat.
- Once I killed a droid and some ZZZs appeared above its head, and combat didn't end. Clicking on the robot corpse the game told me it was unconscious. If I waited a turn or two, combat ended, then I could loot the enemy's corpse like normal. Not sure if this is a bug or just a quirk of the game?
- Various doors/containers say "used keycard", for example on the space wreck, despite my character not owning any keycards except for the one you start with on your own ship. Seems unintended?
- I got stuck - after dying to a droid in the cargo bay, the game reloaded and spawned me outside in space, where I can't move or do anything aside from starting over :(
Hope reporting these helps!
Aside from getting stuck, really loving the game! When a few more of the bugs are ironed out I look forward to writing about it on my blog :)
This game looks interesting! At first from the screenshots I thought it would be like classic UFO/X-COM, but a few minutes of play gave me a strong Fallout 2 vibe (which was probably no coincidence judging by your profile pic ;) Will be following this with close interest!
Ah I see, so annoying that you have to manually request that, but I guess it makes sense. For what it's worth, I tried marking the file as a false positive and submitting it to AVG also.
I managed to quickly disable AVG for a couple seconds to load the game then reactivate it (otherwise it automatically deletes the gamefile without giving me any say in the matter). It was tons of fun, and exactly the classic FF5-style job system I'd been craving. Can't wait for more!
This looks awesome, but can't play it as for some reason my antivirus blocks it :(
Guessing it's a false positive - not sure if there's any way to change it?
Even though I couldn't try it out, love the look of the class system, there really isn't enough classic RPGs with these anymore!
I finally updated the game (my first update broke the game, and I had to go back to the drawing board for a while)! If you have the chance, check it out and would be great to find any other bugs or feedback out.
Unfortunately due to some major code changes, save games won't carry over to the new version... Hopefully that kind of thing won't happen once I shift it out of "prototype" status.
Post any bugs, errors, issues or other feedback here!
Current known 0.1.9b bugs:
- A bunch of Encyclopedia entries are blank or not yet added; they will be slowly added over time
- Some icons for skills not yet added
- The alternate CSS themes are experimental and aren't perfectly functional yet, some things might look a bit messed up in them
Hey Keyband, good to have you back! I saw you posted a couple games, looking forward to playing them soon!
I think quests will be a good idea, currently the game sort of has quests - when it or the farmer suggests something you should do. Later in the Adventurer/Dungeon side of game I think I will have more formal quests, like rescuing trapped miners from monsters, for example.
Aside from that I haven't given the sequence problem much thought, I just updated the game with some massively cleaned up code, so from here, I'm gonna go back to brainstorming about the sequence idea and see what I can come up with.
Thanks for the comment! Glad to see the update brought you back! ;) I am definitely planning on expanding the Workers-side of gameplay in the next bigger update, not only will you get more workers, but they will each have their own stats and skill rankings, and can equip tools. (this is built into the code but not implemented into the gameplay yet)!
You were right, the Scythe price was displaying wrong - well spotted! Currently the HTML for upgrades is static, something I need to automate in the next update.
#2 and #3 are not a bugs, per se, just to do with unlocking order. E.g. for Silo, you have to wait til you get the Upgrade Storage Shed upgrade, which unlocks after you explore the Cave. It IS a bit weird to give the Silo upgrade before its possible to afford it, though.
It raises an interesting design question: I've noticed people tend to max out their resources and get all upgrades before moving on to a new section of the game whenever possible. Then, when they unlock new stuff they already have the resources to buy any new upgrades instantly, which trivialises the importance/impact of the upgrades.
Ideally, I want a way to introduce new upgrades where the player can't already pay for them without some kind of new planning and work. E.g. when Party Slot is unlocked, you need 1000 wheat. To store that much wheat, though, you need the Upgraded Silo. But, to pay for that, you need 300 wood, so you first need the Upgraded Storage Shed. I think that makes an interesting chain of planning for the player. However, if the player has been maxing out every resource and upgrade as soon as it appears, instead, they can just buy the Party Slot as soon as it appears without much thought, reducing the significance of the upgrade to just a button click.
Not sure what the best approach to that is though, without forcing it - ideas welcomed!
Thanks, that's valuable help. I didn't know anyone to playtest the game, so this is really useful.
Hopefully those bugs are fixed now! You were definitely correct re: equipment. I was testing the game I realised it was odd to not be able to equip stuff yet. (I should also add a msg "You crafted a sword, it has been placed in storage" or something to also make that clearer.
I couldn't figure out hiring bug, though... THAT one is weird. On my local copy of the game, you can hire no problem. But I played through it on Itch and I couldn't hire anyone either (even though it was the exact same version).. very weird. Since it works locally I can't use the debugger unfortunately --- and then it magically started working again for no apparent reason... Hopefully it works on your end too!
If all else fails, a Hard Reset (from the settings menu) often fixes the weirder problems, usually stemming from a change to the objects structures. But that means losing all your hard work progress fighting all those skeletons! I've been trying to avoid resorting to that, but could be a last resort.
You are absolutely welcome to check back and provide any feedback or input, here in this post or on the game page/comments Really helps!! Thanks again for putting up with the bugs!
Thank you so much, this is excellent useful feedback!
Those bugs should definitely not be happening - coins shouldn't have been showing minus signs, and I could craft equipment last time I played. All you need to do is click on the item name.
Luckily I was easily able to replicate and thus fix the bugs. Crafting was easy fix - my last update added a skill check (some items have higher skill req.), but it failed if you have not yet learnt the skill at all (from trying to craft something at least once). The coin trading was completely borked up somehow, the code there is particularly messy - will need to do a complete rewrite later... but for now it seems to work again! I tested trades in all directions with 1/10 at a time and seemed to all add up.
The city-building idea isn't in the game yet, sadly, currently there's a small bunch of upgrades for the farm. However, I've definitely still go plans to flesh that side out more soon!
Edit: Had a quick look and the shin megami tensei battle system does look quite interesting. Looking forward to watching some videos on it more in-depth later, thanks for the tip!
Success or Failure?
The game is more of a prototype. The incremental side needs fleshing out. It overall needs more content. But... it's a working, breathing, framework. You can: gather resources, explore caves, upgrade stuff, unlock new resources, fight monsters, craft weapons and armour, hire adventurers, and reach a final dungeon. I'd call that a success!
Breaking it down:
- More than just numbers increasing - success! The game has item gathering, upgrading, currency exchange, item crafting, party management, exploration/dungeons, and RPG battles. These features can all be fleshed out, but its already a good variety of stuff.
- A clear ending: a narrative with an end goal. Sort of. The game has a clear structure, with dungeons, but there is no real narrative and I wasn't able to create an end boss. The game does tell you when you reached the final dungeon, though.
- Avoiding ridiculous numbers - success! The multi-currency system works better than I expected. Having multiple currencies definitely pads things out. Moreover, the currency exchange market, with its shifting rates, means that you dont even get 100:1 rates, so it takes quite a while to upgrade money.
I tried to make a game multiple times over the last 10 years. 10 years! I never succeeded. This time, for the first time, was different. Why?
There's probably no easy answer, but I'll try.
Keeping the interface simple - It's purely text-based, there are minimal graphics (basically just icons) and there is no animation or sound. The characters (adventurers, NPCs, etc) always just appear in a list, without sprites aside from a portrait. Fighting is just the characters' portraits, and nothing is animated, exploring dungeons is just an "explore" button with a percentage that goes up. Inventory is a fixed order list - so no inventory-tetris to worry about coding. With just a basic CSS, it still looks a bit like a game. I think it worked surprisingly well.
Not so much simple mechanics, rather implementing them simply - not sure how to explain this, but something I felt I really did (surprisingly) well is finding simple ways to implement my ideas. There's a lot of complexity under the hood, for example, combat-turn calculation system, a passive skill training system, a functioning currency exchange market, craft-able weapons/armour. However, combat turns are "instantly" displayed in a text log, skills/weapons/armour don't do anything more than flat atk/def bonus. Currency exchange is randomly generated. I think this turned out quite well, though. My only real regret, mechanics-wise, is not being able to make combat more than just "attack / defend".
Starting messy - A lot of people look back and say they didn't plan things out enough, and their code was too messy, and urge you not to do that. I say, if you are a beginner, you should! Rather than plan everything ahead, design notes on paper, and so on, I just started. Yes, the code was messy, and yes, sometimes I realised my approach sucked and had to rewrite stuff. But, I think this was valuable experience. When you are an absolute beginner, carefully planning ahead can make your scope too ambitious (because you don't understand what's technically feasible yet). By coding it straight out "by hand" first, it helped me to just try my ideas out and see how well something works (or doesn't). If something didn't work, it was much easier to figure out why. Only once ideas were concreted, my game code became modular.
Of course, this doesn't mean I think it'a a good approach. I just think it's useful for people doing first time projects to get started, and get their hands dirty. (It also depends on the type of project.) Once you're better at game design and coding, you probably should not take this approach.
What Didn't Work
The main things that I didn't complete properly was fleshing out the incremental side, and adding a narrative.
Two-games in one! - my idea to make something with RPG and incremental elements was good, but it was a mistake. It was actually making two games in one. And then a third game that ties them together. That was way too much work. I should have just chosen one, and stuck with that. As a result, the incremental side is poorly fleshed out, and doesn't tie that much into the RPG
My first post jam update began to address this, though. Lots of new craftable stuff that requires the incremental's resources and upgrades like "adding a party slot" which requires lots of wheat. Exploring also costs "food" (wheat), meaning now the incremental side is starting to fuel the RPG.
"code first, think later" - it was good to learn about code, but it's a short term solution. I should add that it only works in certain situations: RPG game design seemed to work pretty well, just thinking up ideas and dropping them in and see what happens, but incremental game design seems to require a more thought-out process, as everything needs to carefully interconnect. Narrative, likewise, and at least in this game, isn't something I could just add as I go. If I went back in time, thus I would strip my goal down to focusing on an RPG without much plot
But I'm happy with it. It just meant that my first game is more about learning to put something together and code, and ambitious story telling and a design-orientated approach will come in future games.
I definitely plan to continue on the game. I still have lots of ideas of things I want to add, including:
- more incremental stuff, such as fleshed out village building
- more fleshed out adventurer management (start a guild, gain reputation, find talent)
- better combat (more than just attack/defend)
- class and skill system (train up adventurers, customise their class and abilities)
- and more of everything else!
Feel free to try it out and check out the devlog at:
Bonus: Next Game Jam
I also have plans for a future MyFirstGameJam game in Summer. I drafted an idea ages ago for a Monopoly style game called Minipoly, with the goal of addressing the hideous balance issues in the original (which were apparently intentional to demonstrate the horrors of capitalism), to make something more dynamic and much, much faster to play.
Hey there! My game is inspired by old school RPGs, with a dash of incremental/clicker games (though more on the RPG side). It's my first proper attempt to make a game:
Being text-based and browser-based, it's really easy to whoosh through everything, and I want the final game to feel more "solid" and rewarding to get through, so...
I need help on: ways to make gameplay take longer but in a rewarding sense - without artificial difficulty or padding.
I know there's a LOT of content that still needs adding/fleshing out, and that the game is still an early prototype. But... thinking ahead, my feeling is that regardless, it will be too easy to breeze through the game content.
This is in part from my lack of game/design experience - I am good at coming up with ideas for things to add, but not so much on how to properly "gamify" them. I'd like the game to take longer, but preferably avoiding artificial padding, wait timers or other forced things like that. Rather, I want it to feel enjoyable and involving, like eating a good steak.. and rewarding when you finally make progress.
I have various ideas about how to do this, but not sure what's best! So would be good to hear ideas!
I'd like feedback on:
- If you beat the game (you get a "final dungeon" msg), how long did it take to get there?
- Any parts felt too fast, or too slow?
- Of course, any bugs, etc
ps. It *should* run fine on android browsers (tested on iPhone and it doesnt, sorry!)
Update 10.5: Stealth Updatez
Manged to slip in a quick stealth update before the deadline:
- removed all the free items from starting inventory
- Added a few more weapons and armour
- Fixed exploration bug that allowed free exploration when in combat
- fixed crafting page bug that prevented proper displaying of item crafting materials
Managed to quick-fix a couple bugs. Since crafting works, I removed the free starting items - now you have to craft them yourself first. To compensate, added a few weapons and armours to craft, so there's a slightly better range now. Technically, there's not much incentive to not just save up resources for the best equipment first, but at least the options are there.
The game is definitely more of a prototype than anything else, but I'm happy I got to create something that pretty much works. I can definitely work from the foundation I've built here, and although I will take a break to refresh, I hope to flesh it out quite a bit in future. Plans include, fleshing out the incremental side a lot more, and making combat much more interesting, and tying them together better.
- Farming: more than just wheat - planting seeds, milling flour, baking bread, getting livestock, and so on
- Village building: build taverns to attract adventurers, blacksmiths to craft items, alchemists to brew potions, and so on
- Loot: get loot from dungeons and other events, needed to craft better upgrades and gear for both the farming and adventuring
- Skills: a range of learnable skills building on the current passive system, with lots of battle abilities
- NPC interation: a keyword system to interact more deeply with NPCs and find clues
- Deeper adventurer system: reputation system and class system for adventurers
- Deeper worker system: workers get skills and play a bigger role in your choices
- Much more upgrades
- Proper narrative: actual story and plot and events to push you through the game
Update 10: Ender: The Endening
Finally here. The biggest news: I did a test run of the game, from beginning to end (without devmode!) and it's winnable. It's WINNABLE. You can beat the game from beginning to end. Crafting also seems to work, so far. Haven't had time to test it, but looks promising:
Ok, there are massive narrative gaps and balance issues, but the foundation is set. I've never gotten this far before in making a game, ever, so it's a big achievement for me and couldn't be more pleased with myself. I will probably take a break for a few weeks after this, but definitely come back and flesh out the content. There's tons more I can add.
- Crafting implemented!
- New basket upgrade added, to increase wheat and wood capacity
- Stone and Iron resource discovery progession padded out a bit
- Dungeon progression is smoothed out a bit, with some extra steps
- Defending gets less effective if you repeat it every turn
- Fixed a few bugs, e.g. skill progression always saying "gathering skill"
Known Unfinished Things
- Money balance isn't well-tested - progression on the game depends on getting the first round of upgrades. It shouldn't normally be possible to get into a dead end, but it may be. For example, playing around on the currency exchange and losing money, might get you into a dead end where you cant afford the necessary upgrades to progress the story.
- You can have too many people in a party - you are only supposed to be able to have 4 people in the active party. Trying to make more than 3 adventurers (plus you) in the active party might break the game.
- Could not get a final boss fight - you just get a msg when completing the final dungeon. Anticlimatic, I know. But to make a special event like a boss fight, doesn't work with the standard explore and combat functions, so entirely new code would be needed.
It was a bit of a rush, but crafting works! There's a bug for complex items - when displaying materials, it shows "object", but rest assured the creation process does work (and if you dont have enough materials, it'll then tell you more clearly what you need and how much. Probably won't get time to implement more than that by tomorrow.
Oh, and you start the game with a range of gear - enough to beat the game directly, anyhow. Have fun!
It was too easy before to endlessly defend in the first dungeon, losing 1HP a turn until you die, then heal and repeat, grinding your "Defense" skill quickly. I found myself doing it even though I made the game! Patient players can still grind, but it shouldn't be that powerful.
So, defend now gives decreasing returns, each time you use it consecutively, its reduced by 0.1 (10%), down to a lowest of 0.1 per turn. Just taking a 1 turn break will "reset" it.
Stone and iron-ore discovery has been shifted to one step later. Instead of having stone automatically upon discovering the cave, now you have to explore the cave first to find stone. Likewise, once it becomes a mine, you then have to explore the mine to find iron ore.
After exploring the mine, instead of going straight to a classic dungeon, a tab called "Deeper" opens up, exploring deeper into the mine. You can encounter slimes here. Next, it changes to "Tunnels". Finally, once you finish exploring tunnels, the tab changes to "Dungeons" and proper dungeons open up.
Finally, the Party menu doesnt open up until you've reached these proper dungeons now.
This all pads it out a bit more nicely.
Exploring is still a bit overpowered. When exploring, there's a 3/4 chance for combat. But you still get some % of exploration added. It's lower than if there was no combat. However, its easily breakable. E.g., just enter combat at 1HP, die instantly, repeat. You lose all combats but each time gain a little %, up to 99%. Combat can't push exploration past 99% so you have to win at least one combat to beat a dungeon. It doesn't "break" the game, since you can repeat dungeons and farm for XP regardless.
Still, it's not the best. I'll probably have to rethink that system one day.
Most probably, I'll do something like I did with the defense tweak. Encounter rates are still high, and encounters still give some exploration %. But... each lost combat gives less exploration % - so entering combat, fleeing/dying and repeating will give less and less exploration %, down to 0%, so that you can't game the system. Winning a combat will reset the exploration % rate back to normal, and will also lower the encounter rate, so the chance of multiple combats in a row gets less and less. Dying or running from combat will increase the encounter rate, as well as lowering exploration gains. So basically, you will be far better off winning combats.
Possibly get a chance to fix and tweak small things before deadline
Write a postmortem in a day or two.
Take a break!
I uploaded a preview build! Check it out:
Warning: have not tested it at all!
Update 9: Live Preview Online!
As I chip away at the final things I can implement before the deadline, a few small but important additions today. Armour was finally implemented, and more work was needed on the passive skills system, its more complex now, but arguably more interesting. But I really spent most of the time getting things working and fixing the inevitable bugs that resulted. I'm aiming for update 10 tomorrow to be the final game jam devlog :O
- Finally you can equip armour AND weapons. No more naked adventurers running around!
- Weapons and armour actually have an effect! (e.g. swords increase damage, armour reduces damage).
- A couple of new armours and new weapons added (mainly for testing purposes - try them out!)
- More UI tweaks, the resource menu expand/collapse is much cleaner now, NPCs can also be expanded/hidden
- Skills have been refined, and made more complex;
- different skills have different "difficulty" to learn, making them take longer to learn, and once learned, they also have different "learning rates", taking longer to level up.
- being "untrained" in a skill now imparts a penalty, while being "trained" gives you a bonus. (the bonus worked before but was hard-coded in, now its properly coded via functions).
- untrained skills can have multiple "negative levels" meaning higher penalties, but as you level closer to 0 the penalty reduces with each level closer. Once you get to lv. 1, the skill is "learnt" you get the bonus instead of the penalty, which also increases with each level.
- when you learn a skill, the game notifies you, if you are still in negative levels the game gives you a (pretty obvious) hint that you are improving in that skill.
- Gathering, Chopping, Mining, Combat and Defense skills fully working now, affecting the relevant skills outcome.
- Enemy's defense actually does something now!
- Trading skill added which improves market rates.
- NPCs now appear on a list on the left side, regardless of location, making better use of empty space
As mentioned, NPCs now appear on a list on the left side, regardless of location, making better use of empty space.
The tab will show the NPCs in the current "room". I plan to make this menu become also more context-sensitive, later, though. E.g. it could show other general actions you can perform, that dont fit into normal area of the tab that you are on.
Game interface with left menus all collapsed
With all left menus expanded
I fixed up the code so gaining skills is no longer hard-coded per skill (I generally hard-code it in one or two areas to "test" my idea, then I create a function and use that instead). This means that adding new skills is now easy and scalable. More importantly, I expanded the skills system a bit and pretty happy with how it works now. It's way more complex now, though in relatively subtle ways.
Like before, when you perform an action, the game checks if you have the related skill. If you have it, a bonus is applied and the skill gets XP. If you don't have it, you get the skill, but "untrained". However NOW, untrained skills incur a penalty, as opposed to trained skills giving you a bonus, to whatever you are doing. Furthermore, skills have a ton of other properties. Untrained skills can be more "difficult" to learn, begining at lower levels (-1, -2, etc), and start with lower -XP levels, meaning it takes longer to reach the holy Lv. 1 when you start getting bonuses instead of penalties.
Skills can also have differnt learning rates, basically the rate it gains XP while untrained, and training rates - the rate it gains XP after its trained. Generally speaking, the untrained XP gain is double that of the trained XP gain rate.
Skills also have different XP curves (affecting how much the XP requirement increases for each level).
This adds a ton of customisation to skills, and (to me, at least) makes them a lot more interesting and variable.
You can see it in action here, in the currency exchange menu. The [dev] info (only appears when "devmode=1") shows the underlying variables. The base rate is 100 copper to 1 bronze, with a market rate of 1.03 meaning its 103 copper to get 1 bronze at the moment (a pretty good deal!). But you are also deeply untrained in the "Trading" skill. The initial level of -2, with a penalty of 2 per untrained level, meaning the maximum penalty of -4 value to all trades.
In other words, for buying copper, it costs 4 more than the actual market rate. For selling bronze, you get 4 less than the actual market rate. Eventually, from lv.1 onward you'll get a bonus of +1 per trade instead, getting more bang for your buck when buying and selling.
There's a ton of stuff to do really. But I'll do what I can by tomorrow. Critical things are:
- add loot to monsters, esp. weapon blueprints
- flesh out incremental side a bit, more story and upgrades so there's a logical flow
- finish crafting system (currently it displays craftable items, but you cant actually craft anything yet)
- add final boss and victory sequence
If I can get those done tomorrow.. the game might actually be a "complete" experience. Basically a prototype, but hopefully an interesting one!
Update 8.5: More Currency & Skills + UI tweaks... and live preview online!
Well, we are almost there.. this will likely be the second-to-last main update!
Unfortunately, today I barely had much free time, so didn't really get much done. The game "works" but there are a lot of gaps that need to be filled in for narrative and progression. Hopefully tomorrow! Nonetheless, an older version of the game is online, in preparation for the final game jam update:
That's the version from about 2 posts ago, but feel free to try it out and play around with the systems, and find the inevitable bugs that lurk there!
- Finished implementing the currency exchange and got it fully working. You can now exchange back and forth from copper to bronze, which is enough for this stage of the game.
- The passive skill system is now also fully implemented - characters can gain a handful skills after performing actions enough times, which level up overtime and boost the skill.
- Help system integrated into the game. Clicking a [?] in some places will toggle an info window
- Numerous UI improvements, NPCs appear with icons instead of just buttons! Rounded borders! Shadows under the menu!
Help info is contained in a default invisible div tag, and when you click the ?, it toggles whether that div is visible or hidden. Simple, but so effective. It's a nice way to give more info than a tooltip, but short of creating some sort of help manual. I will add a lot of these through the UI, which will be very helpful - especially since the narrative and game flow that would guide the player is not properly established, it makes the game actually sort of playable in the meantime.
Normal menu popup, with help text hidden.
After the help is toggled on.
Note also how the exchange rate for selling 10 Bronze is slightly different than the rate of 1:92 would suggest, due to rounding. For now, I like this, as it adds some variability to searching for good deals - sometimes the rounding will work in your favour and sometimes against you, depending on what trade you are looking to make at the time.
The nicest update for me though is the new menus. I created a "shadow" div, which you can see in the above pics, to make the menus look like they are floating above the main area, which helps to distinguish the menu from the main game stuff, and I found out you can do rounded borders in HTML, which makes really look like old school RPG menus a la Final Fantasy now!
The exchange system is fully implemented, with backward and forward exchange rates. You can trade 1 or 10 copper into bronze, and a market rate (as explained in my last post) is applied on top of the standard 100:1 base rate. Market rate randomly shifts, and is updated live in the currency exchange window (if its open). Backwards exchange rates work, but similar to real life, are always less value (in this case a flat rate of 25% less).
So if you want 100 bronze, for example, and were lucky enough to get it at the lowest possible market rate of 100:1 the cost is:
- x bronze = x * (marketrate * baserate) copper
- 100 bronze = 100 * (1 * 100) copper
- 100 bronze = 100 * 100 copper
- 100 bronze = 10,000 copper
Exchanging back at this time, in theory would give you 10,000 copper back. But, for downwards conversions, with the 25% commission cost it ends up being 7,500 copper. Doh! A 2,500 loss. Just like real life, you don't always get back what you put in.
So instead, you hold on to your 100 bronze and wait for the maximum rate, which is 1.75 - or 175 copper for 1 bronze.
- x bronze = x * (market rate * base rate) copper
- 100 bronze = 100 * (1.75 * 100) copper
- 100 bronze = 100 * 175 copper
- 100 bronze = 17,500 copper - 25% commission
- 100 bronze = 13,125 copper
Exchanging 100 bronze back for this rate would get you 13,125 copper. Certainly, a lot less than the full 17,500 copper it's supposed to be worth - but look! - you only spent 10,000 copper for it originally. That means, a profit of 3,125 copper... all for doing nothing but waiting.
The rate is pure randomly generated every minute. A wishlist item would be to make the rate instead move in "points" much like real stocks and commodities, moving upwards or downwards over time, which, while still randomly calculated, would feel a lot more real. I might also need to tweak the 25% margin so that arbitrage is not too powerful, but for now it's good enough, and it's kind of cool to have an alternative source of money management.
Skills have been slightly fleshed out. Basically, when you perform an action associated with a skill, the game checks if you have that skill.
If you have the skill, it gets a small bit of XP (1-10pts). Your skill level (generally) boosts whatever action you are performing; the higher your skill level, the higher the benefit.
If you don't have the skill, things get more interesting. You receive a penalty to whatever you are doing, but the skill gets added... but it's "untrained" and doesn't yet appear in your skill list. It is saved as lv. 0 and starts with -100 to -50 XP. You have to gain enough XP to not only pass 0 XP but get to +100XP and reach lv. 1. At that point, you have the skill officially, the game tells you that you've learned the skill and it starts appearing in your skill list. Current skills:
- Gathering: increases wheat gathered per click by 1 per skill lv
- Chopping: increases wood gathered per click by 1 per skill lv
- Mining: increases stone/ores gathered per click by 1 per skill lv
- Combat: increases damage of [Attack] by 1 per skill lv
- Defense: increases def when [Defend] is used by 0.1 (10%) per level
Both the player and adventurers can gain skills, later I will make it so workers also gain skills. Later I will have skill levels for Swords, Daggers, and armours and so on. Lots of potential here, such as a skill tree. E.g. once you get lv. 10 in Swords, it unlocks the duel wielding skill, enabling you to equip two weapons. I can also make a skill that adjusts the base market rate, e.g. down to 90:1, so that you always get better rates.
Hey there, got a question about submission rules.
If we submit our game page before the jam ends, are we allowed to re-submit an updated version before the deadline? Or is it strictly a "one submission only" rule?
E.g. if I submit today, and some people play it and give feedback/find bugs, can I fix them and re-upload before the jam ends on Saturday?
Sorry if this has been asked elsewhere, didn't find it on the info/FAQ pages!
Ah man, sorry to hear about that. Luckily I still use Windows 7 😅 the game looks basically playable already, but hope you get the chance to polish it off soon! Regardless of whether you finish it during the game jam or after, I'll definitely be playing.
Nice work on getting this far! Been very interesting reading about how to approach narrative. I like how this approach, can have a linear conclusion yet allow a freedom of explore the narrative, which in itself can shape ones interpretation of the overall story.
I think less people stop by on my page too, so perhaps like you say, everyone is in The Crunch! I think also as things get closer people are rather waiting for the big release!
Update 8: Crafting, Farming, Skills and Currency Exchange
Aaaaand we're back to the incremental side! Finally! I did a number of tweaks and formatting changes, and fleshed out a bit more UI, and added some features to begin tying the incremental into the RPG: dungeon farming, and crafting, character skills, and a functioning currency exchange market.
Finally, I've added the beginnings of an "end game" script, and shifted all the special in-development buttons into a "dev mode", all of which signals the final stretch of this "prototype" game is starting to creep nearer.
- Farm page submenu implemented, now there is a Barn, Upgrades and Crafting buttons when visiting the farm, that switches to the relevant details inside the Farm page (NPCs always appear regardless of submenu)
- Curreny exchange: get rich on the market! Once you have enough copper, bronze coins open up. You can exchange them at an initial rate of 1.25 copper for 1 bronze. Rates change every minute, so in theory it is possible to game the system.
- Skills: characters can now have passive skills like "Gathering" and "Swords", although they don't do anything useful yet
- In-game notifications for a range of stuff, like when new elements/features are unlocked, eg. "Wood can not be chopped", "farm upgrade available" etc, and when you explore a dungeon, begin combat, and so on. All are formatted to be more noticable too, with colour or bolding as needed
- Crafting new tab added, and game now lists craftable weapons and their relevant material costs.
- Currency menu added, which will later enable currency exchange (copper -> bronze, etc)
- Clearing the final dungeon triggers end game script.
- "Devmode" added
- UI tweaks. E.g. modal-dialogue formatting cleaned up a little bit
A pretty big gameplay addition, but surprisngly simple to implement. It basically operates the same as a shop - the only harder part is that instead of just a single currency cost (e.g. copper) it needs to "cost" various variable materials as well. Luckily, it uses the same logic as a lot of other things - like showing the equipment menu, except instead of listing equipment based on how many you own, it checks a flag property for whether the "blueprint" is "available", and then if so, loops through its "materials" to display the cost to make it.
Currency exchange is reasonably self-explanatory. Once you have over 400 copper, the exchange feature unlocks and allows you to change your hard earned copper pieces for bronze pieces. Of course, the spirits of the exchange market need to take their cut, so you don't get 1:1 rates.
All rates are based on the base formula of 100:1, as mentioned way back in my second post. A "market rate" is then applied on top of this. The default rate of copper is 1.25: which means 100 * 1.25 = 125 copper for 1 bronze. Steep!
However, the market rates change over time. The lowest you can ever get is 1:1 (i.e. 100:1) which is nice! Except for silver, which can never go lower than 1.5:1 (exchanging it into gold) and gold, which can never go lower than 2:1 (exchanging it into platinum). Currently you can only "forward" trade, that is, go from copper to bronze, bronze to iron, and so on. Though I will implement "backwards" trading, so a clever trader may be able to take advantage of arbitrage.
In this version of the game, you'd have to remember the rates at which you bought everything, and patiently watch the market rates. However, in the distant future I will add upgrades to help facilitate this, such as notifications when rates change, and tracking your purchases to help you secure the best value deals. It's a potentially neat little "game within a game", but it won't be essential.
Basically, if you prefer trading than dungeon farming, this feature will be for you!
Speaking of farming: after clearing a dungeon, a button now appears that lets you trigger combat in that dungeon on demand. In other words, you can "farm" monsters in the dungeon. This is a good counterbalance if the player got "lucky" and progressed a bit too fast, ending up in a dungeon that's too difficult.
Currently it's only good for farming XP to grind levels. But it opens up the way for monsters to drop useful loot and materials used for crafting.
I also plan to add a random enounter that is a treasure chest or some other interactive scenario. E.g. "you find a crack in the wall, what do you do?" and if a character has high enough strength, they can knock it down, revealing some loot. This will add a nice RPG touch to the base game. Loot (whether from chests or elsewhere) can contain "blueprints" which enable the development of better weapons
Although I wont be able to make a cool active combat skill system before the gam jam ends, I do plan to implement a basic passive skills systems. Everytime you gather wheat, chop wood, etc, you shold get skill XP. When you level up, you can gather more resources and carry more resources. Characters in combat shouldalso gain XP in the weapon type they are using, such as Swords. When they level up, their damage with the weapon type increases.
Currently I've implemented the first steps, adding it to Player/Adventurer objects and code to display and skills possed by that character. Next, I need to implement learning of skills, and the skills effect on combat/gathering/etc.
Now, when you progress to a point where the game would make something new visible in the UI, the game explicitly tells you this. For example "[Upgrades] tab unlocked.", "[Stone] resource discovered.", and so on. Normally they say "show not tell" but in this case, the addded message seems to add a lot more game feeling, I think it makes the feeling of unlocking something more official, reenforcing a feeling of progression.
It's also useful as sometimes a new element appearing might not be so obvious, and players may not have realised there was something new to do.
Dungeons also start to give some descriptive messages when exploring: how much you managed to explore and whether you explored unscathed or if something heard you. Later I can add ambient effects as well, like "You hear noises." or "This section of the dungeon is lined with orante pots.", etc, for a bit of RPG flavour.
When the last dungeon is cleared, you get a message telling you that you've cleared the final dungeon (congrats, you!), and a button for the final battle will replace the normal dungeon button. Nothing further happens, yet, but it means the hook for triggering the end game (or end of "chapter 1"), is in place.
This flag will determine whether extra controls and debug info shows up. It has stuff like gathering full resouces instantly, and the like, for faster testing. Now, the game will only show this stuff if "devmode" is switched on. Why doing this is signifiant, is that it signals the game getting closer to the real thing! Adding a devmode toggle means I can now have a "public" version of the game, but still turn on devmode and test it when needed.
Right now the main steps are just going over all these functions and making sure they work, finding bugs/mistakes I made, and finishing off these features:
- "backwards" exchange (e.g. bronze back to copper)
- skills to gain XP and level up, and be applied to relevant actions
- implement armour
- add more weapons
- add loot to monsters, esp. weapon blueprints
- add final boss and victory sequence
later (highly desirable, if time permits)
- add other dungeon encounters like treasure chests
- more farm-related upgrades
- change adventurers, add classes and make it so better adventurers appear as you clear dungeons
Hey! Been enjoying reading your devlog. Liking your maps, so many RPG Maker games had square, inorganic feeling maps, but yours do a lot more to feel natural!
I'm a bit late to the party here, and it's been a long time since I used RPG Maker, but I remember there was a way to "tint" the game rather than have to recreate the whole map. I used to do an event with no picture in the corner of the map with Switch: IsNight ON, and then include the action that set the screen tint to a dark blue sort of colour. If Switch: isNight OFF then the tint is set to normal/none instead. I vaguely remember using this to simulate early morning (orange), day (none) and night (dark blue) based on Switches or possibly other variables. You can also use this switch in events so that they only are triggered during the day or night. That way you don't have to create multiple tilesets and events!
Thanks for the toughtful coments. That's a really good point about narrative and decisions.
At the moment I'm pretty tied down with just building the game systems (this turned out to be a lot more ambititous project than I realised), so the narrative will stay pretty linear for now. But in future I would like to have NPC interation as an important part of the game, and a few key decisions, including how to deal with the farmer (and spoiler alert: a bit of time-travel thrown in the mix !)
Was actually thinking to implement a Ultima-style "keyword" system eventually. Although unlike in Ultima, you do not type in words directly, instead, you would gather keywords as you progress, and then select them from a list when talking to NPCs. I loved Fallout, especially Fallout 2, in the level of choice it gave you when dealing with NPCs and quests... I remember one time, I needed an item from an NPC for a quest, but he wanted me to do his own annoying fetch quest. So I just said scre it, and pickpocketed the item from him instead, and went on my merry way. :D
Update 7: Parties & Dungeons
This update sees the introduction of party-based combat and a series of 4 dungeons to progress through. Battles are turn-based, the game uses a basic "speed" calculation system to determine turn-order, and (for now), everyone patiently takes turns hitting things until something dies. Or the whole party is dead. Fun times.
(ignore the funky colouring - my display was on night settings)
Summary of progress:
- Party-based combat framework integrated, with basic "attack" and "defend" actions
- 10 monsters added to the game
- 4 dungeons added, which need to be "explored" in order
- Adventurers are only added to combat if they are in the "active" party
- Adventurers heal over time, but not when in combat
- All adventurers can now equip weapons!
- Dismiss adventurers button
- Clicking on the adventurer #number opens a popup adventurer menu for more options:
- shows their stats
- toggle "active" or "inactive" for being in the main (combat) party
- and the "discharge" button
Building the game systems to this point was a lot more work than I expected. An RPG is definitely way more complex than the incremental side. There are so many menus, people and stats to keep track off, and things like equipping things and dying, that all need their own functions to be coded. Getting the systems in place took a lot of work... And a lot more debugging. I repeatedly used the word "systems" rather than just game, but at this point that is what it is: it's not a game, but a game system. I realised there is a key point when a series of game systems becomes a "game", where everything starts interconnecting and the player is driven by some sort of progression (most often some sort of story, or at least "winning the game").
I won't be able to finish a "game" within the next few days, but at least I can try and tie it together with some sort of purpose. There are now 4 dungeons and a prelimary area, let's call it the "zero dungeon" for now, which gets discovered after fully exploring the cave. The first (zero) dungeon is not dangerous at all and easily tacklable by the player. From there, new proper dungeons open up, but get more dangerous. The player pretty much needs to recruit Adventurers from the first real dungeon onwards.
Currently each time you click "explore" there is a 3/4 chance of facing combat. The monster that appears depends on the "dangerlevel" of the area. Once you've managed to get 100%, the next dungeon opens. It's not implemented yet, but completing the final dungeon (good luck with that!) will give some sort of "Victory!" message.
Currently there are two options: attack and defend. Attack is self-explanatory, doing direct damage based on str (for now). Defense is slightly more complex, it halves damage received until your next turn. It also "costs" less (more on that below), meaning a character who "defend"s will act again a bit sooner.
Sadly, that is as complex at combat will get during the game jam, I think, due to time limits. In future, I definitely would like a skill system, but... c'est la vie for now.
To determine turn order, I used a method loosely based on Final Fantasy Tactics' system. Characters have a "Turnpoints" property. Each round, their AGL is added to it. The character with the highest Turnpoints then acts that turn. After acting, their TP is set to 0. And everyone's TP is calculated again for the next round. Repeat.
Right now every action sets TP back to 0, making the turn order roughly fixed. (Eventually a faster character will skip ahead every now and then) But the system is flexible enough to enable a number of potential neat features:
- I could make skills or attacks that affect turnpoints, thus changing turn order. E.g. "interrupt" which halves target's TP, or "stun" which sets a them outright to 0.
- Skills lowering AGL would have an important effect on combat! E.g. "slow" spell.
- There's even more room to expand the TP system further:
- Different actions could have different TP costs. This could be based on the type of action, like attacking takes all TP but defending only cost 80%, meaning defenders will move again sooner.
- But I could also assign each ability/skill its own "TP cost". So we could have all sorts of things like quick, weak but fast slashes. Fast fireballs, or slow powerful explosions.
Lots of options here, which is exciting. Sadly, I won't have time to implement anything that makes use of it during the game jam. But it's nice to know the framework is there.
(art from Opengameart.org)
There are currently 10 monsters. Growing from a simple slime up to dragons and the evil warlock, your final goal.
I thought I could leave things like AI to the side for now but no, just even picking a "random" target required a lot of work. It can't be a pure random number range, e.g. 1-4, as the adventures and party size are all variable, so I needed to code a (basic) system to "choose" a target. Of course, this still requires various checks. Is the target alive? And so on.
Once again, this is as simple as it will get in this "game jam version", but being forced to implement the framework of a system does mean future behaviours can be added more easily. Some potential stuff:
- Add a "aggro" property that builds up (and can be affected by skills, equipment, etc) that creates a bias on the "random target"
- Add skills that add statuses such as "target" which cause all enemies to attack that round
- Add skills which, conversely, set "aggro" to 0. Such as "hide" or "invisible" which will be good for rogues and casters.
With the addition of enemies and dungeons, there's scope to make some kind of "winnable" scenario for the game jam.
There's a bunch of technical things that are still needed, like making armour equippable, and actually implementing weapons and armour to affect dmg or def.
In the bigger picture, the systems need to be tied together. Primarily, the incremental side needs to feed the RPG side. Adventurers need to require reputation (gained from clearing dungeons) to appear and cost money to hire. Weapons and armour need to cost money and resources to "craft". Each dungeon needs to scale in difficulty enough so that you need new adventuers, weapons, and armour to progress. That will drive expanding and upgrading your farm to afford this stuff.
I haven't had much chance to get to focusing on narrative, though I do have plans. For now, I need to at least create a mystery and clues, so that people want to not only finish this intial "game jam version" but with a cliffhanger ending that raises more questions, that can only be answered when you play the "post jam version."
Update 6: Adventurers
A quick update because its 4am, but after a couple day break, I crammed some work in and the game now has the beginnings of an adventurer system! You can hire randomly generated adventurers and add them to your party.
- Game areas (Farm, Cave, etc) have submenu bars
- Dialogue box controls moved inside of the dialogue window, and made smaller
- Settings cog moved inside of main menu, and settings menu cleaned up a bit
- Various other formatting refinements, including stuff to make the page more "responsive" (e.g. adapts to different sized browser windows)
- You can now hire randomly generate-able adventurers!
- The game now saves the player's equipment
- You can now unequip a weapon
- A tooltip now appears for your equipped weapon as well as those in the equipment list, and -
- equipped weapon tooltip shows current equipped weapon, for slightly easier stat comparison
- Health regenerates over time, at a default rate of 1/s. Thus, if you die in combat you don't automatically get full health anymore.
- Health doesn't regenerate for characters who are in combat
- Other tabs are disabled while in combat
The system so far is pretty basic, but the goal was to get the framework in place. You can hire adventurers, and the game saves them, and dynamically fills out your party screen as needed. Currently, you just click "Hire" and a fresh adventurer is generated. You can then hire, re-roll their stats, get a fresh new adventurer, or reject them entirely.
In the "final" game, it probably won't be this easy - there may be a pool of shifting adventurers (e.g. in a tavern), rather than generating on demand (but I needed to build the code for generating adventurers in the meantime). Initially, the stat distributions will be lower, as you get lower quality adventurers. But as your reputation goes up, not only better classes, but those with better base stats, will start to show up.
Generating Random Stats
Most old school RPGs (read: D&D) had the main character stats range from 1-18, mostly, with 18 being incredibly tough. I wanted to use this range but make the randomisation weighted toward a certain bracket - e.g. most should be, say, 14-16. I tried out a bunch of ideas found on forums, from just a straight up random range, to tips such as "get 3 random numbers then avg. them to get weighted toward the middle" to writing custom distribution functions. I tested it out by making the game keep track of these different approaches' averages:
...which all had exactly the same result.
After playing with a few, in the end it really was as simple as just "adding" a few different random numbers together, and playing with the numbers to get the bias I want. I set a bias of around 17, because let's face it, RPG players reroll until they get decent stats, so this speeds up that process. You can still get unlucky and get single digit stats, so it's not a cakewalk, but generally, it shouldn't take too many rolls to get something decent.
Of course, the weighting will probably change in the full final game, but it was fun to play around with.
Making Equipment Comparison toolips
I lost many hours trying to make a way for the game to show you your current weapon stats and one from the equipment list at the same time, for comparison, a la many RPGs e.g:
As simple as it should seem to just make two tooltips appear at once, it was very problematic. long story short, the way the code is set up, it's just not possible - I coded myself into a wall, and would have to rewrite a lot of things from the ground up.
So I settled on a compromise of sorts: When you mouse over some equipment, the tooltip simply displays the description of both the selected item and your current equipment, one after the other, within the single tooltip. Blunt, but it does the job:
I need to continue integrating the adventurers, primarily so they can also be equipped, and then add them to combat. I'm planning a basic turn-based battle system, where characters take turns in order of their SPD stat (which will probably be derived from DEX+AGL for now). Then, dungeons need to be fleshed out, to have multiple encounters, and the ability to "clear" them, opening up the next dungeon in the list.
For now, the narrative and deeper roleplaying elements are a distant dream, but I'm hoping, with 8 days left, that I will get a few solid days in the end to purely focus on story and world building!