seems major issues are resolved in ver.1.3. (at least in my case)
i did notice "C" key is handy when logs got increased but didn't notice the differences of Highlight and Narrative (log font size) options' change that much. as to smallest font of Narrative, its hard to read on my 24' monitor. so i can't set it to smallest anyway.
currently im busy on exploring literally step by step.
looking at each objects, searching NPCs to get more infos, checking tiles one by one in dangerous looking place... and so on.
it might sound tedious for non-players but actually, thanks to rich variety of environment, its really fun.
it makes me feel as if the world is emerging gradually from darkness with my own foot prints increasing. this kind of experience is rare these days. :)
i myself, ain't an artist, but i think i might have some kind of such sense through my experience since 8bit era.
old games had only a few colors at the same time on screen and had to use dither or patterned way especially for tile based game.
and there had been already some tricks to put multiple tiles in one grid with transparency. actual result isn't changed since then.
so i know possibilities from the fact how overstuffed/mismatched colors/odd placing of pixels could reduce visibility badly.
it's pleasure to have found Lurking has got sequel. the course which your dev took is truly not only re-imaging retro style but retrieving long forgotten adventuring heart. such challenge is always welcome. thank you, devs. :)
but i have some complain and suggestion. its about screen design.
its too dim at night/in cave so im overlooking things often on the ground or surroundings. the rain effect as well just becomes annoying. along with combat log, it covers char's graphics.
such "rich expression" is often seen in modern ARPG/Hack'n'Slash/MMORPG but affordable only when in bigger screen layouts which could hold enough space (or adjustable camera view and scales for info related parts) and having separated stats gauges which is kept in standout manner.
a game in lo-res (or lo-res looking game like this) screen needs more clarity than real/rich flavor imo or it gets just losing visibility of vital part, thus cause to be too stressful to play.
the actual drawing space is quite small afterall, isn't it ?
i think its better have options of turning effects off like realtime zone lighting, weather or even day/night cycle, adjustable gamma collection and color scheme if possible unless the screen design gets changed.
the game is broken or unplayable for 2 major issues.
1. my characters of slot 7 and 8 will be corrupt when entering dungeon.
2. when returning to castle from dungeon, my all progress will be lost.
version of my WinVice is 3.1
thanks for quick reply.
i have confirmed i could cancel any chosen action with clicking floor without moving.
but it still makes me feel out of tone to make the flow of inputs. i would rather use hotkey as more conventional way. since always key input is more precise and faster to activate such generic function like cancelling. (no need to point out. that is, far less wrong input.)
right click might have been reserved to "check" things function, so i said hotkey is must. (clicking mouse wheel is another way but its kinda not steady since its been used already to zooming. its enough to be another cause to wrong input.)
btw i didn't mention about new random map generator.
its much improved. no more simple looking map and practically wider than before to explore. so it becomes more challenging. :)
and new path marker is very clear to see. but outlined objects like door or container might be a bit too dim to discern on main map view.
i want cancel key after choosing action. (i.e. Esc key )
1. in current system, if the enemy was proceeding in good range and allies turn started, it automatically becomes to be set to shoot action.
2. once i chose my action (or accidentally), i have to open mini-map and close it to change my action. what a messy system...
this is just too troublesome to perform such most expected action in this type of game.
as universal usage, to have a function of cancelling action anytime, is must. and it would be best to be clear, fastest way.
for that purpose, there should have NOT ONLY mouse input (but not by relying on activating other function) BUT hotkey.
some of my ideas. place name in brackets suggests where the event occurs.
1. Helping Escape for prince/princess/nobles/peoples from City (world map, on the road)
random quest occurs near by refugee's home city.
2. Learning Monster Language (both)
this might not be event but could relate to it.
some monsters are apparently Ethistos native, so why not learn their language ? (after defeating specific strongest mob/boss.)
once learned, player can have low chance to try interrogation if beat target monster till almost dead, and if successful, can get some important info.
3. Assassination (world map)
random but high chance of encounter to combat with hired (or brainwashed) assassin by shadow forces. after player gets reached rather higher levels. (seems unstoppable for shadows.)
always solo but higher level than player. and he/she tries to escape with teleport like ability in danger. and steals some consumables (foods, potions, magic gems, scrolls and wands) away. almost impossible to kill.
reward should be only loot but precious one.
4. Magical Gem Vein (both)
in world map, player can expect natural source of magic gems.
in dungeon, some wall could contain them.
needs special tool to dig it out. (maybe unbreakable adamantite pickaxe ?)
but only if the player was fighter type (yes, muscle talks) and not elf (they already have better innate ability), this event could be triggered.
5. Secret Deep Dungeon Levels (dungeon)
some vault levels which is completely hidden and can't be found in normal way.
only after some condition met, player can start searching entrance.
it hides important things/secrets but optional. (good for achievement thingy.)
small forgotten cave is ideal for candidate.
additional 27 to 57 levels would suit for it's importance. (usually player can access only 3 levels)
with going deeper, becomes harder. no magical merchant. some fallen boss reappears in stronger shape.
6. Bard event (world map)
this needs implementation of new ancient strange tome or scrolls which is worthless in itself.
and player can't decipher them.
if player could meet traveling bard, he/she can ask for related old song when holding target legacy.
bards are just knowing the ancient lyrics and songs, so they provide only hints.
combination with old druid legends might be logically good. which can be heard from chief druid after getting hint phrase.
7. Stone Circle (world map)
if found, even fighter can have a chance to get spells, mana point or arcane thread. but its limited to utility spells and minimum number. (like detect trap and phantom presence.)
with this implementation, there will be meaning for fighter to get mana point when leveling.
for casters, no mana point nor thread chance. so its not that big bonus but precious chance to raise utility spells.
in its powerful nature, this event should be rarest (but can start in early stage) and occur only several times.
8. Eagle of Legend (both)
yes, its HUGE. and player can ride on. best transport for end game. (fastest and no random encount.)
needs to decipher ancient legends and what's not to find and revive him.
for this event, ancient tome mystery and bard event become important.
apart from legend part, player needs special artifact to call the eagle.
i have played many times. and had fun in each play even in this early stage of development.
the system is very intuitive. no one need to fear for complexity of roguelikes.
you can just dive into the game.
dev keeps pouring his passion and effort into this game.
this impressed me the game looks promising.
i could play straight till the end without getting bored in this time. i saw build 35.5 got fully improved.
and it was very fun to play for long time. soon, i will play again.
some minor bugs are still there but they are not breaking the game.
and more contents will come ? sounds really nice. :)
now, i got an idea how devs want to make TBS shaped in this game.
its totally governed only by initiatives and thus its a kind of CTB but with strict sequential order.
so changing around mechanism of AP might become a killer in very bad manner. since unit of highest initiative could rule over or could be ridiculously overpowered in any condition.
please be careful.
i can understand there are many unexpected error occurs in current build.
but is there any way to disable dev console ?
its just annoying to see errors stacking over UI.
i think logging in background and one time notification when game quits is enough for the purpose.
i have already mentioned about 7.62 and other russian made JA2 followers.
russian mirror isn't correct description. its just one of the series of russian's attempt to mimic JA2.
7.62 was best shot for them and good one for sure, but that's it.
all of them are in 3D environment and has its own charm from it, but the pacing and combat wise, like other 3-dimensionized sequel/ripp-off games would have fallen into problematic state inevitably, in the shade of original's long stretched shadow and never matched.
clunky 3D display system cause just hardship to grasp whats going on at first glance, it makes player feel everything more bland, distant and less vivid or even narrower than 2D once he noticed its kinda series of collection of inorganic objects.
as a result, it becomes just pointlessly bulky, slow and lackluster for the rest of the play.
player who tried to do same general things with JA2, should see less polished state all in all, or too much airs to put on.
i had played 7.62 vanilla state and with Blue Sun mod several times when the game was still hot, but after-impression was too little to remember. its just so-so or rather unpleasant cumbersome experience after all and could have never kept interest as JA2. so that almost no memory left now but soon remembered the cause written in above.
and if my memory was correct, Hardlife Mod adds so called "realistic" thingy to make the game more harder. its more stray than colorful.
so, since Depth of Extinction is top-down view 2D tactical game with retro perspective approach, i thought its best to remark JA2 as ancestor and really good example of this kind which still holds up and shine.
similar scale, similar sized squad management, and so on. expression of terrains, and the focus should be within the same scope of JA2 as i said before.
its a world of gaming where is irrelevant to hick second handed unnatural 3D poser.
and one more important things. after success of new X-com, good pacing of turn based game could have convinced new, younger audience. it also succeeded in threading the line of the genre to the future.
technically, there was no reason for new X-Com had to be 3D. see how new X-Com has been ridiculously simplified to make it's game experience much poorer if compared to original. its badly suffer from short living linear progression so that keeps me away from it after several through since there is no replay value. but at the same time, it's simplified shape suggests ideal ways such as:
1. detailed info is shown on demand and only if necessary. since every player knows keeping already-knowing-things on screen is not only useless but just annoying.
2. devs know well how the player will become concentrate on only important things to keep playing. thus, less informative at once and simple interaction to work on.
3. trying to be simple leads to intuitive flow of continual play and succeeded in softening the learning curve of its innate complexity of this kind for newbies.
4. all of these things are done with abstraction from masterpiece of the past by the persons who know real thing and the taste. and its well executed and standout like popular standard music with clear, catchy melody line.
i feel devs of Depth of Extinction are concerning for this point of view. easy to start but deep at the core, intuitive and addictive. all is contributing to good pacing.
additionally, good integration of random elements to strengthen replayability which was lack in new X-Com.
finally, initial character creation has returned !!
yes, that's almost changing everything for player. ready made pc is good for showing example or suggestion, but its as such. full scratch character is the real avator/ego of the player and fascinate role playing ongoing.
sorry for late reply. but its very pity for hearing your failure of launching JA2 with Bear's Pit mod.
seems some Win10 user could run and others couldn't.
since i've heard tons of complain about Win10 from friends, i judged its not ready as main OS yet and can't switch from Win7, so i can't check the condition myself.
i hope future release of Bear's Pit would make compatibility issues resolved.
more rework for camera will be awesome.
if you play Jagged Allience 2, i strongly recommend using 1.13 fan patch from Bear's Pit. it changes the game mechanics to maximize in every respect and reveal the potential of the game. usually JA2 fan speaks about it with patch. as vanilla state is rather pity. since it was one of the last Legacy of old Sir-tech company, it couldn't hold time till completion and released as if literally unfinished buisiness.
JA2 Bear's Pit mod patch (Stable)
Unstable but Latest
the input is rather complex if you compared with similar games in same genre, even with original X-com with OpenXcom applied. but once you got used to, you would notice how JA2 had born from incredibly rich springs of ideas as a tactical squad based strategy role playing. and the pacing of the game is really second to none imnho.
some russian JA2 follower games like 7.62 tried to become golden but all of them are just like a similar playing ground with raw materials scattered around.
Wasteland 2 tried to contain JA2's combat and gun systems, but it also failed for cutting too many edges. but the pacing was nearest to JA2.
Shadowrun Chronicles should be mentioned as remarkable hidden gem of tactical turn-based squad based role playing game the pacing wise. the point is, smooth playability in both of single/multi play. its rarest case in this genre. within the current new Shadowrun series, i have to say Chronicles is still staying in rather rough made state, but the pacing and mission based progression should be technically in the same scope of Depth of Extinction. the opinion from TRPG players of Shadowrun (veterans) are mostly divided by 2. "it's too simplistic" or "still somehow feels like more "Shadowrun" than other new ones". the persons of latter opinion got the real core of the game i think.
ok, i found build 29.3. so i keep playing more and see the changes.
so far, one thing i feel very annoying is unstable screen view when my turn starts. it's unsteady scrolling irritate me and the screen goes off every time. the fixed setting of right mouse button to drag screen is candidate of this.
i tried "manual pan camera" in option, but its the same. this part should be changed. it already hurts game experience badly.
and as to mini-map. when clicked, stretched one pops up but its virtually useless since i can see exact what i want to know in mini-map. it would better have camera view's jump function when clicking in any part of mini-map.
there are no character creation nor customizable progression.
if this state was the way to the future, i won't play anymore and never recommend to my friends.
after long waiting, this early/alpha version was big disappointment.
i can't say but "no, this isn't the thing what JA2 or first X-Com players are looking for."
most lacking of this type of games is forced liner progression like new X-Com. its totally off the mark for being called tactical squad based rpg/strategy.
i think adding more environment sound would be very nice.
footsteps(own and enemy's). some noise (the sound of rolling ball, fountain, gas vent, howl from big monsters, evil laughing from devils... and so on) and chimes (it's already there but want to hear more.)
mine is 15.6 for sure. the freeze only occurs in enemy turn. so i doubt AI getting internal stacking error which triggers some kind of overflow. same looking bug has been seen in the past, and almost always was there especially in early version. (i.e. Master of Magic, original X-com and Jagged Allience 2)
it seems i have been through demo version now as i can handle any situation without difficulties. what i said about "fixed order is not good" is, even taken one squad team as a unit, there should be some arrange of order within. i mean, its not always Soldier A to B thing (even if it depends on speed/agility value of each.). Soldier A could wait to strike out for best effort with B. that's why serious Turn Based Strategy has "passing/waiting turn/phase/round" function to adapt. i felt this missing badly after i got shotgunner and grenadier in my team. since the set of heavy fire's backing with assault is usually becoming mean punch to stronger enemies.
this part is the very core of tactical scaled strategy. actually its smallest but important part of chain of command and the source of deeper thought and fun for the player.
i think pre-made personality is good. it adds atmosphere and natural feeling to game's progression. but please don't become too restricted to fit only to those pre-made characters. it kills not only longevity but replayability since it becomes boring flashback once the player got through. (it's like splash/intro movie of computer game.)
the game freezes in enemy turn very often. especially when the covering obstacles got hit by opportunity/return fire from my soldier. i have to reload and restart from the mission briefing once it happened.
im ok with 8bit style pixel graphic but i would appreciate more patterns for new recruites. how about some montage like character creation ? by changing body color and parts, hair color and styles, and tatoos. and setting voice and initial stats either. it helps the personality standing out.
as to player's turn, i think "ending turn" function without changing prior commands is must have. and current fixed order of command is rather poor design for tactical combat. it only narrows down the choice and should be assigned more freely.
there is a game breaking bug concerning Staff of Change.
after defeating The Tyrant, my party got 500 gold and Staff of Change. i went back to the Druid of church to proceed but he won't give my party a permission to teleporter room. the choices never change since i asked him about the teleporter first. i tried northern transition mark but it just stays telling "you need permission" all the same.
no matter how i changed order of my member to switch leading character, it fails.
i think this is a fatal script bug to prevent player from playing this game. now i got stacked hopelessly.
apart from that, there are many of unimplemented spells when character goes level up despite the message tells it has been gained.
this happens when Paladin/Clleric got a new spells. seems some divine spells are not implemented fully yet. its rather shame since divine spells are vital to challenge stronger opponent. (Silence, Cause serious damage of Cleric, all of divine spells after Paladin reached to 4 levels)
i have made different palette mods pack of retro hardwares.
current version is updated to 1.01
there are 23 types of them:
Acorn BBC Micro
2 of AMIGA (Shadow of the Beast & Dawn Bringer's flexible 16 colors palette)
ATARI 2600 VCS PAL
ATARI 2600 VCS NTSC
Thomson MO5 and later
SEGA Mk3 (SMS)
SEGA Mega Drive (Genesis)
SEGA Game Gear
PC-Engine (Turbo Grafix 16)
also, here is retro fonts mod pack.
current version is 1.032
there are 19 types of retro font
Acorn BBC Micro
Amiga Topaz font
Amstrac CPC 464
ZX Spectrum (thin)
ZX Spectrum (bold)
ZX Spectrum (another)
Famicom (NES) (only capital)
Famicom (NES)) (including lower case)
SEGA Mk3 (SMS)
SEGA Mega Drive (Genesis)
SEGA Game Gear
DL link is here
some font dones't fit perfectly in game.
any authors of font whom i coudn't reach yet, please pm me.
all of my mods are "as is". so there might be flaws and ugly part.
and any Font within Font Mod Pack is not for System Font.