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(+1)

Thanks for another review! I think you're probably the most detailed feedback I get on releases, I really appreciate it.

Saving is completely busted after the early game, no clue why. Similar issues happened to many others. I'll look into it and see what's up.

The item cloning is funny! Most Diablolikes have an exploit like that. I'll look into it and try and get that and saving fixed by tomorrow.

The starter wand is a good idea as well! That should be an easy addition. 

As for the balance - all my testers so far have the same feedback: melee sucks and ranged is too good. I'll look into this and try and give it some parity. For the spell balance, every person who told me their experience had a "this spell is really good, but all the other ones are lame" attitude, where they all had a completely different spell that they liked. If anything, this tells me that the spells are different enough in design, which I am happy with. I'll need to balance them more as well, since I do feel like some are too strong and others too weak.

The rest of your concerns seem like easy fixes that I'll include when pushing out a save/load hotfix.

Thanks again for your feedback!

(+1)

About melee. It sadly sucks to some degree in all other ARPGs. 

I played quite a lot of games like tok. Diablo 1-3, sacred 1-2, torchlight 1-2 or path of exile. I even played lesser known games like R.A.W. or space hack. I was thinking about improving melee while I was working and here is what I came up with. 

Melee in Tok has two problems. Hard to avoid damage and low damage output compared to spells / ranged weapon arts.

I came up with multiple ways that might fix these problems.

Adding more movement options, like shield dash weapon art or haste ability would be a good idea. Dash would simply launch your character quickly forward and stun the enemy you hit with it. Haste would increase your movement speed. Both could be used for attacking and escaping. I believe these two abilities should be enough to make avoiding damage easier, but reworking shields might be a good idea too. I will talk about that later.

Low damage is a problem because you can only hit one enemy while attacking, other weapon types have AoE weapon arts or spells. This makes melee weapons too weak once more enemies start appearing. Adding weapon arts like cleave or ground slam might fix that but then again, this won't make melee weapons on par with other ranged options, since they have better range while also having AoE abilities. 

Best option I think would be giving all melee weapons some form of default splash damage. When you hit an enemy, other enemies around you get also damaged. Number of enemies and damage percentage could be influenced by weapon type or strength level. Blunt weapons could hit one enemy for 80% damage, two handed axes 4 enemies for 40% damage and so on. Would also make picking a melee weapon slightly more involved than just looking at higher damage number, since weapons hitting more enemies would be better in levels with a lot of weaker enemies while weapons hitting less enemies would be better againts smaller, stronger groups.

This alone would make melee have its niche. You risk taking damage, but you will be able to kill groups faster without using any mana. 

Also, reworking shields might help make melee better too. 

Shields could work as a secondary health bar. Once it runs out, you start getting health damage. Shield could get restored by attacking / killing enemies in melee. Seems better than just letting it regenerate over time. Points restored could be affected by the amount of enemies you are hitting at once, so hitting four enemies with splash damage restores 1 point per hit while hitting only one enemy restores 0.2. This would make it less overpowered againts single enemies like bosses while making you thougher when overwhelmed with large groups. Two handed melee weapons could have some shield points too. 

Right now, using a weapon / gear without life leech is a suicide whne using melee. This seems like a good alternative.

It's possible none of these are going to work once put to a test, but they seem like good solutions on paper. Up to you to decide, but I hope I helped a little.

(+1)

Thanks for the writeup! I just finished fixing some of what you mentioned in your previous post (no more duplicating items!)

I think the major issue at hand now is a numbers issue: melee is tough because you WILL get surrounded and you WILL take damage, no matter what. Meanwhile, a bow can deal only one damage per shot but a skilled player will shoot-move-shoot and kill everything before taking any damage, since most enemies are slow and cannot deal in any way with a ranged player. A crap bow will be better than the best melee weapon. I think the first step should be creating a scenario where using a bow is NOT the optimal solution. I think I already have something like that with the Unseen enemies, who have a Evasion, which gives arrows a high chance to simply phase through them. Problem is, they're also tough for melee users due to their high dodge values.

Meanwhile, most of the other enemies are slow and heavy-damage-dealers, which is a counter to melee users. I think tweaking some values to make some enemies be countered by melee and others by bow would be a good step forward before adding any other tools. 

Using the newest level (Halls Of Pain) as an example: 

Goat: best dealt with by ranged, good against melee
Hammer man: best dealt with by ranged, very strong against melee
Red man: usually has fireshield which damages you if you hit them in melee, not particularly strong against anything

I think the first step here is to mix and match: I'll try and make the Skinless Red boys be much faster at chasing the player and giving them faster attack speed at the expense of damage.

So ideally you'll at least have a situation where a melee weapon or spell dispatches them quickly and having a shield would prevent their damage, but a bow is weak since you can't easily shoot-run-shoot. This should change the dynamic where some enemies are best dealt with different equipment

Your Combat Art and skills suggestions are all very good but I will need to first try and somewhat balance the situation as mentioned above. After that, I already have your cleave idea in mind - since two handed weapons are on average slower, they should have some AOE ability. Same with shields - using an item meant to mitigate damage and increase survivability does the opposite since it puts you in harm's way, and there isn't a good CA to assist in this (block doesn't really count, it's meant for 1 on 1 encounters). If number changes alone don't solve any issue, it'll be time to change the design of things. I personally wouldn't like having automatic/natural regeneration, since I believe then the optimal move would be "kill something -> wait to heal automatically -> kill something -> ..."

Either way, I have a lot of work ahead of me balance-wise.

Thanks for your detailed ideas!

Also, I forgot to mention this previously: be on the lookout for a Unique Spear in your future playthroughs. A small token of my appreciation for you and your valuable feedback through the developments of our games


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Making enemies with different strengths / weaknesses againts different weapon types is a good call. You will definitely want to add quick loadout switching with a key though, since trying to quickly change weapons with full inventory is not great. 

Other than that, I think you have everything else covered. All atributes have both melee / ranged options so that shouldn't be a problem. Only switching between them quickly.

Also, I like that spear. Thanks for adding it.