Indie game storeFree gamesFun gamesHorror games
Game developmentAssetsComics
SalesBundles
Jobs
Tags

You must be 18+ to view this content

Minotaur Hotel may contain content you must be 18+ to view.

Are you 18 years of age or older?

or Return to itch.io

Ruthless Route Discussion Thread

A topic by Minoh Workshop created Aug 22, 2021 Views: 7,265 Replies: 67
Viewing posts 21 to 25 of 25 · Previous page · First page
(+2)

Spoilers: A Summary of the Ruthless Route (Chapter 3, pre-endings) 

Chapter 3 returns our focus to the cruel Master's perspective, who is opening the door to Asterion's quarters, darkness pouring out from within. Asterion  sits inside, sunken into himself, when the Master orders him to rise. They are going out to the valley together today. Silently, Asterion follows, and the player is given a (final) chance to modify Asterion's clothes. After doing so, the Master pats Asterion on the shoulder, and he flinches away. This presents the final major choice to the player: "Punish him." or "Be firm, but fair." The former will also lock you into the Dust and Silence 'alternate' version of your ending, while the latter will not. No matter your choice though, you head out of your quarters, Asterion in tow. 

Before heading all the way out, the Master decides to check in on the reception to see how the hotel is doing. There he finds Kota, Luke, and a small gathering of the last guests left in the hotel. Luke and Kota approach and try to 'Good Cop, Bad Cop' the Master into stopping his abuse of the hotel and of Asterion, but he again brushes them off and tells them to mind their own business. The Master questions the loyalty and oath of whichever is the lounge manager, and tells everyone that they should just leave if they don't like how he's running things. 

Here, the story forks a bit if you are locked into a Dust and Silence ending from being a harsh Master in this route. If you are, Luke and Kota make a more aggressive stand after some additional goading from the harsh and cruel Master, getting ready to resort to violence until Asterion forces himself into their way. This, in turn, enrages the Master, who screams at them to get out, and the realm shifts to instantly expel them. The enraged Master continues his tantrum, also willing the hotel to throw out all the remaining guests, too. Paying little attention to Asterion's reaction, the Master orders him follow down the stairs and out to the valley.

On the other endings that aren't Dust and Silence, the Master does not goad Luke and Kota, and in turn they demand to join you on this trip to the valley to protect Asterion rather than escalate the situation. Being less harsh in these routes, the Master will tolerate them to come to the valley entrance, but no further. They are only meeting with the Foreman, so it "will not be long". They agree, and follow the Master down, stopping at the mouth of the cave as was agreed upon.

Either way, you meet up with Argos at the statue of Athena, who taunts Asterion before leading you onward to the pit containing the Effigy. The Master voices his suspicions about trusting Argos, who flashes the elixir and swears he is speaking only the truth. And no matter what Argos says by now, the Master has already made his choice (see the end of Ruthless 1). The story fully splits into one of three endings, though each has a Dust and Silence 'alternate' ending. Each one will get their own post below, and as a reminder, the options were "Agree to the snake's plan." (Ending: Shackled), "Deceive the deceiver." (Ending: Welcome to the Minotaur Hotel), or "Make no promises." (Ending: As You Are, I Once Was).

Spoilers: Full spoilers from Chapter 3, pre-endings

Surprise, there aren't any! I had to give this one its own post because of character limits in posts though, even though this part isn't very impactful besides giving the player a different (and meaner, ya big jerk) way to get on the Dust and Silence track.

(+2)

Spoilers: A Summary of the Ruthless Route (Ending: Shackled)

In the Shackled ending, the Master pushes Asterion into the pit, and is given the Elixir by Argos. Argos pads both of their egos and the Master takes one final gaze into Argos' eye to check for any deception. Finding none, he leaves amicably, telling Argos to reach out next time he has something to show, as "this might be the start of a long and fruitful partnership." In turn, Argos smirks and bids the master farewell. On the way back to the Hotel, as the Master ponders what he will do about Luke and Kota, he finds he simply cannot waste any more time without the power of extended life. The Master drinks the elixir, poison and all, which quickly starts shutting his body down. The Narrator appears in the Master's last moments to speak about hubris and what the Master threw away, as the poison sets in and the Master takes his last breath. 

The scene shifts to a final flashback: Nikos breathing on a stage, pulling himself out of his role of Oedipus at the auditions to join the trials to become the next Argos Panoptes. The godly Overseer applauds, clearly impressed with Nikos' talent. When the Overseer questions Nikos for his motivation to be Argos, Nikos reveals that he is the grandson of the previous one, raised on its stories. After confirming with the Overseer that the Argos may take on a sort of 'mandate's mission' (the Overseer is too busy to check up on the Argos after their time as the Foreman starts, he says, so he likes the idea of them having a mission communicated up front), Nikos declares that his will not allow Clement's actions to happen again, and that he even looks up to the minotaur for doing all he can to help others who are lost, despite being damned himself. 

This, in turn, makes the godly Overseer laugh. He claims this is a very hopeful interpretation of what an Argos is supposed to do, which Argos counters is the natural trajectory of their role: "Humanity changed, and so did we too change from torturers to, shall we say, teachers. [...] I wish to reveal the new master's character, and instruct him to become the shining example humanity deserves." 

Intriegued, the Overseer challenges Nikos with a possibility, what would he do if the new Master is not a good person, and turns to the old ways of running the labyrinth? Nikos, however, refuses to believe such a thing will happen: "He shall not. Humanity is great, and time has made its heart boundless and kind. This new master... I'm sure he'll be good." The Overseer calls him overly optimistic, but that he does not disapprove. Impressed with all that he has said, the Overseer grants Nikos his blessing to participate in the Trials. Nikos is overjoyed and takes a deep breath in...

And Argos breathes out, the flashback over. After cursing out the now dead Master, he tries to strike up conversation with the Narrator, only to be met with silence - their pact is done, and now it is up to Argos to finish his work. He descends to the pit, skirting around the Effigy which pays him little mind. That changes when Argos swipes the extremely injured Asterion out from under its nose, but the secret tunnel is too narrow for it, and it is left behind to rage without its prisoner.

Once pulled to safety, an exhausted Argos pulls out his last bottle of healing wine and begins using it to tend to Asterion. During this, he finally lets go of the role of Argos, and goes back to thinking of himself as Dominikos. As he muses, the wine heals Asterion back up into consciousness, and Nikos lamely asks if he is alright. Asterion is extremely confused, and asks why Argos saved him, watching him wearily for the slightest reason to flee - after all, he knows nothing but the role of Argos the Foreman. In turn, Nikos bids him to finish the wine and listen to what he has to say, as he is so weak that Asterion could overpower him if needed. Asterion agrees to this, and Nikos tells his tale, starting with the past week and growing into explaining things like the Gift, the lineage of Argoi as the Foreman, and what was supposed to happen if the master was a good person. These truths are little comfort for Asterion with all he's been through. Feeling ashamed for the way his role, too, has brough suffering to Asterion, Nikos cannot think of anything else to say or comfort Asterion, and so he says nothing at all, leaving Asterion to rage and grieve alone. 

We cut to the nighttime, Asterion worn out and silently processing all that he has learned. Nikos asks what he plans to do next, if Asterion will take the freedom the Gift offers, but Asterion is torn; He doesn't want to leave the guests behind. Nikos, in turn, points out that the mirror will soon revert to his possession and the guests will be forced out anyway. Unkindly, he asks "So will you keep tying your happiness to theirs? Will you stay here, shackled to your Hotel, while their lives continue on?" Asterion snaps at him for his words, but they hit home. After processing the situation and despite the pain it causes, Asterion finally choses to be selfish and to accept the Gift and take his freedom. Still, he is frustrated with the snake and quips "Alright, you win. At the very last, you win. And may you be damned for it. Good riddance to this Labyrinth. Good riddance to the Hotel, to {player name}... And to you, False Foreman." 

Chastised, Nikos presents the gift to Asterion, who reaches forward to accept it. However, he pauses at the last moment to ask one final question of Nikos: Asterion bids him speak of their homeland, Crete, which Nikos waxes poetically on. It is as beautiful as ever, and that their "homeland's legacy is humanity's". It brings Asterion some peace, but then in a flash of light, he touches the Gift and is gone, the light inside it taken as well.

Left behind in the valley, Nikos hides the empty shell of the Gift at the roots of a nearby tree, mentally preparing himself for his trek to his home from the labrynth. He will get to see his parents once more, but he must also face the retribution that awaits from his Overseer, once they learn of this treason. However, his musings are interrupted by a terrible howling. The pelt, thought gone and sacrificed, has taken to life of its own, and it pounces on Nikos before he can react, smothering him beneath its bulk. The Narrator finally speaks once more, "Now, redeemer, the shackles of the prisoner drag you to the depths. [...] count no man happy until he dies, free from pain at last." The chapter ends.

In the epilogue chapter for this route, P and Storm finally enter the hotel, but it's run down and appears empty. They start looking for clues and find scribbled notes and crossed out poetry that are closer to ravings than understanable prose. Suddenly, Storm hears movement down the hall, and they set out to investigate. It's coming from inside the cold room in the lounge, and when they step in to communicate with what's there, they pull back in surprise. Inside is an emaciated half-snake, half-bull creature: Nikos, having been fused with the pelt that attacked him in the valley and turned into this. After overcoming the shock of seeing each other, Nikos lets out a dusty laugh and answers P's initial questions: There is no one else, and no longer a minotaur that can make diamonds appear from his hands. There is only him, all the guests having fled at his presence. "And now here I am, a wretched monster, shackled forevermore within this realm of damnation. Crowned, as you can see, as proud reward for my love of justice." P advances with more questions and has a hearty laugh of his own when the pitiful creature introduces itself as Argos and promises to share his story. We fade to black with P saying, "Alright then Argos... Tell me everything."

END "Shackled", Argos is drawn in the background of the credits, playing a trumpet.

Spoilers: Dust and Silence alternate ending of Shackled

This ending is mostly the same up until Argos feeds Asterion the healing wine - the only real difference being what the Narrator taunts the Master on during their death. In this Dust and Silence alternate, Asterion's spirit is so broken that he barely responds or reacts to Argos' presence instead of fearing and being soothed into hearing the truths Nikos has to share. Nikos is unable to get any reaction out of him, and knows it is his fault: the trick to get the Master separated from Asterion was too harsh, too cruel on top of this ending's harsher Master, and it is his fault that Asterion's mind has left. Nikos knows he must provide justice by caring for the minotaur until he returns to himself, and to join him through the mysterious light of the Gift to Asterion's freedom. At first, he thinks of this as taking on the shackle of the prisoner... but then steels himself and determines that this is no shackle at all. "This is no mere role. It is responsibility, chosen instead of granted." He joins hands with Asterion and embraces the gift, both disappearing in a flash of light. The Hotel's hearth flickers out: everyone is gone, and the Labyrinth, the Narrator quips, "is well and truly forsaken. Now at last, the curtain falls upon our role in this matter as well. There is no more of this tale to tell. End the trouble here, please, just where they left it." End of chapter 3.

The epilogue for all 3 Dust and Silence endings is the same (hence the ending's name despite the 3 routes to arrive): Storm and P enter the abandoned Hotel and begin investigating. This time, after finding and reading the same abandoned note of poetry, they hear a voice drifting down the hall. The two prepare themselves and advance into the lounge, where a man drink alone at the bar: It is the godly Overseer, here to clean things up and shut the whole realm down now that it is abandoned. But first, he sulks: the minotaur may be free and he may have finally gotten a redeemer, but the Overseer's original plots and plans lie in ruins, and he's going to be bitched out by "the brat" for who knows how long for the realm ending up like this on his watch as Overseer. It takes a moment of P calling out to the man to be noticed, and at first the man seems extremely angered to see P specifically. Still, P pushes on to ask some questions, which calms the Overseer down and he answers them derisively: Sure, this was the Minotaur's Hotel, but everyone's gone and it's time for this place to go too. The Overseer stands up to leave and P tries to push back and demand answers for the new questions the Overseer's flippant words are creating. This angers the Overseer and they have an intense staredown until the Overseer shakes off his anger instead of acting on it. Sighing, the Overseer walks past the two and tells them to just forget about all of this, they're too late and anything they wanted here is gone. With one last taunting exchange, the Hotel suddenly blinks out of existence around P and Storm, leaving the pair standing outside of P's car in the middle of the desert road. The Hotel is gone, the valley is gone, his inheritance... it's all gone. Sure enough, P flares his tailfeathers and confirms that the visions he used to see 'in his dreams' are gone too, and he cries out in anger and frustration.

After letting him rage for a while, Storm asks 'what now?', to which P responds that he just doesn't know. Storm fidgets and then asks about their deal, because they did find that hotel, right? P stares him down a little bit then shrugs. "I guess we'll have to figure that out, too, kid." The two load back up into the car and start driving, minds whirling over what to do next. We fade to black, and end with P's narration: "There is no 'Minotaur's Hotel'. There is no inheritance. There is no satisfaction of an answer to the questions which still linger in his mind and burn like vinegar on his tongue. There is only the peacock, the bull, and the vast emptiness of the wasteland surrounding them."

END Dust and Silence alternate version of Shackled, Argos and Asterion are drawn in the background of the credits, playing their instruments.

(2 edits)

Spoilers: Full spoilers from Ending: Shackled

Woof, if any of the endings are about continuing themes established in the rest of Minotaur Hotel, it's this one: The redeemer takes on the shackles of those they have freed. Pretty accurate way to say this one ended up.

As mentioned before, we're given the identity of the realm's godly Overseer, the only god allowed access to the realm: Hermes. The big information we learn from him in this ending is that he has definitely set up the role of Foreman to turn into what it has: he is 'too busy' to actually oversee the realm (so the realms can conveniently go against the god's (Athena's) wishes) but the humans were getting 'too soft'. Thus he is forced to set up the role of Argos, but picks these big, flamboyant schemers that learned to try and be the villain so the Master can learn to maybe not be a dick. He needs his plausible deniability though, and he is mentioned to be the god of plots and schemes, so setting up this convoluted mess with the express intent that it (eventually) benefits Asterion is very in character. And as I mentioned before, it makes it a little more fucked up what Hermes is pulling in the Chapter 18 climax, throwing away his pawn of Argos/Nikos like that.

I think there's room for debate that Asterion might have intentionally doomed Nikos to literally take his shackles and punishment when he lashes out in anger in this ending just before he takes the Gift's freedom. It's impossible to know if the pelt would've hunted Nikos down anyway, had Asterion not said what he did at the end to Nikos, as the Dust and Silence alternate has them peace out before the pelt comes around.

Not really a spoiler from this route per se, but P finds it so funny that the cursed minotaur snake calls itself Argos, because P stands for Panoptes and he and his people 'should have' been the real Argos in a way.

Full spoilers from Ending: Dust and Silence alternate of Shackled

If Shackled is about taking on the shackles of the one they have redeemed no matter why or how you did it, this Dust and Silence alternate is the deliberate breaking of it through accepting it. Nikos is not just shackled by the realm as a punishment, but he instead calls this responsibility and joins Asterion through to his freedom to try and nurse his mental health back. Otherwise, no new revelations here I think.

(+1)

Spoilers: A Summary of the Ruthless Route (Ending: Welcome to the Minotaur Hotel)

In the Welcome to the Minotaur Hotel ending, the Master has decided that he will trick Argos to get the elixir instead of doing as he asks. He tries a very basic trick that Argos immediately sees through, which get the two to share a laugh before the Master entreats Argos to join him in throwing Asterion down into the pit. Eager to move on, Argos sets down the elixir and accepts: on the count of three, they will both push Asterion down. However, on three, the Master tries to instead knock Asterion down onto Argos, pinning him down and getting enough time to run over and snatch the elixir. However, Argos is far more frail than the Master expected, and he tips into the pit instead. The Effigy makes quick work of its new prey, and the Master turns to Asterion, shrugging off the death of the snake and saying "There. That's one problem taken care of. [...] You're welcome for that, by the way." Asterion gapes at the master as he retrieves the elixir, cradling it in his arms. Eventually though, the Master decides they must start walking back and orders the stunned Asterion to follow. After a long pause, Asterion complies, saying how the Master's actions this day have totally numbed over Asterion's own heart.

On the walk back to the Hotel, the Master decides he cannot wait any longer to have the extended lifespan, and starts drinking the poisoned elixir. Immediately, he starts dying from the poison, keeling over in pain. He cries out for Asterion to help him, but Asterion states he cannot, this pain and reward is for the Master alone: there is nothing he can do, for the Master has left him with nothing as well. As he lies dying, the Master may either curse out the bull, the hotel, and the whole Labyrinth (to which Asterion masterfully responds "The feeling is mutual.") or try to apologize, which will at least earn a little comforting touch from Asterion as the Master passes.

Forlorn, Asterion muses on how his sentence continues, and starts mechanically walking back to the Hotel. Maybe one day he will come back to bury the bleached bones of the Master and the Foreman, but for now his work continues.

Arriving back at the cave, Asterion finds no sign of Luke or Kota. Likewise when he heads up the stairs to the lobby, no signs of life, which starts distressing him until he finds everyone in the lounge. They are still there, but the hearth has gone out, and Asterion apologizes for the delay. We don't hear words from or see sprites of anyone but Asterion at this point, though, who apologizes for keeping everyone waiting. "{Player name}? He is... Circumstances have forced him to step down as Master. Until the new one arrives, I shall act as your host. [...] Rest? But... there is so much yet to be done. Hah... perhaps you are right. Ah, no, friends... lead me away..." End of chapter 3.

In the epilogue chapter for this route, P and Storm finally enter the hotel, but it's run down and appears empty. They start looking for clues and find scribbled notes and crossed out poetry that are closer to ravings than understandable prose. Suddenly, Storm hears movement down the hall, and they set out to investigate. It's coming from inside the cold room in the lounge, and when they approach, they hear a voice counting inventory of what's inside. When they call out, the voice responds and comes out into the light: It is Asterion, apologizing for not being at the desk to greet the new guests. However, he is not all there, eyes distant and unfocused as they chat. Asterion again apologizes for his sorry state, but P is just happy to have finally found the minotaur and his hotel, so he tries to placate Asterion and assure him it's alright. 

However, P then starts rapid-firing out questions for Asterion, which quickly overwhelms him. Asterion roars out "Enough!" before quickly wrapping his hands over his mouth and immediately apologizing... until his apologies turn into accusations, that P and Storm are more torturers from the Labyrinth, they will peck him apart with questions and mock him with his own form. Asterion draws himself up in rage again before suddenly deflating in on himself. Again, he starts apologizing and he starts berating himself for speaking to guests like this, his words turning into an indecipherable mess.

Seeing the distressed minotaur, P collects himself, silently reassures Storm, and kneels down to speak soothingly to Asterion. He apologizes in turn and says they can go sit and chat out at the bar over a drink, he has just a few questions, and will ask them more gently this time. Storm steps forward to mention that he has questions of his own, which P concedes. The two help Asterion up and he calms himself, promising to answer what he can. But first, "But first, I... I suppose introductions are in order. {The screen fades to black} My name is Asterion, and I am this hotel's Keeper."

END "Welcome to the Minotaur Hotel", Asterion is drawn in the background of the credits, playing his lyre.

Ending: Dust and Silence alternate to Welcome to the Minotaur Hotel

This ending splits from the above after knocking Argos into the pit. After grabbing the elixir, the Master orders the stunned Asterion to follow him back to the Hotel. This time, however, Asterion has had enough, and pushes himself against the order, calling out "I look at you, and all I see is Clément's sneering face. No. Even he, cruel man, was far better than you. [...] Our guests... my friends... the moment they grew inconvenient, you tossed them aside like nothing. Even the Foreman, your partner, proved to be just another of your victims in the end. And for what, Master? What mad visions have spurred you to this? Was it the Labyrinth which carved out your heart, of has it always been empty? Ah, miserable! That is the only word I have for you now. That is the only word I can ever have."

Naturally, this pisses off the Master, filling him with the same rage he felt when Kota and Luke tried standing up to him. He plays the 'How dare you say that, after everything I've done for you' card, ending it with its followup 'fine, I don't need you, stay out here and rot then'. While Asterion's face wavers for a moment, he doubles down, saying "I'd rather suffer a thousand deaths at the hands of the Labyrinth's monsters than spend one moment more under your thumb." Furious, the Master lets him have just that and stalks away toward the Hotel.

As before, en route to the Hotel, the Master cannot resist the siren call of the elixir and its extended life any longer. He unstoppers the vial and starts to drink, quickly succumbing to the poison now coursing through his veins. As in the Shackled ending, the Narrator speaks to the Master as he dies, calling him out for his actions, hubris, and waste of precious gifts. We fade to black.

The scene turns back to Asterion, who is reeling from the pain of the poison as well - as always, he feels the last moments of the Master's life. He looks out to where the former Master stormed off, and ingrained manners force him to call out "... Farewell. Rest in peace..." But before he can stop himself, he also spits out "And good riddance.", a small defiance against the might of the realm's lord he hasn't indulged in ages. 

He forces the rage to cool, however, as he starts to prepare himself for the walk back through the Hotel. How long must he wait for the next Master? Who will they even be? How many more times can he take this cycle? The only comfort he can give himself is that he will not have to worry about the trapped Effigy anymore. Or Argos.

...Or Argos? After some pondering, Asterion can't help but wonder if the Foreman can actually die, or even be destroyed until another manifests from the valley's bowels? And perhaps, if the Foreman can be vanquished, even temporarily, could the other things lurking here be as well? With a morbid curiosity, Asterion walks back to peer down into the pit. Down there he sees only a trail of blood, but no snake. Said bloodtrail leads into a small tunnel in the pit he hadn't noticed at first, some sort of escape passage from the pit. Curious, Asterion walks above where he suspects the tunnel leads, looking for its exit. 

And sure enough, on the other side, he finds a very bloodied Argos panting for breath, trying to rifle through his pack despite a dislocated should and rather messed up arm. Despite their shared history, Asterion cannot help but feel some pity for the Foreman's terrible shape, and he calls out to him. The minotaur's voice startles Argos, and causes him to fumble the first-aid kit he was trying to pull out of his pack. Argos hisses in pain and basically flops to the ground, letting out a hoarse and mirthless laugh, Asterion getting to "see the torturer fall victim to his own machinations." When Asterion does not rise to that bait, Argos decides to change tactics, and asks instead about the Master. "Gone. He... he's dead. [...] You poisoned him." A smirk from Argos. "I did." "...Why?" 

This 'Why?' adds to the pile of 'Why?'s in Asterion's life, and thinking on them, on all of these senseless and confusing problems, he starts to draw himself up in a rage. Eager to not get struck by the minotaur's rage, Argos is quick to promise answers after tending to his wounds. Seeing him struggle, however, spurns Asterion to step forward and offer to help patch the Foreman up. True to his word, Asterion helps clean and bind the worst of Argos' wounds, along with popping his shoulder back into its socket, feeling a "brief and quickly-suppressed stab of satisfaction at Argos' scream of agony." Even with their history, he cannot bear to leave anyone to die who could be saved.

Wounds tended, Asterion bids that Argos begin talking and telling him the answers he promised. Unsure where to begin, Argos decides to start with his real name, Dominikos, and the history of the Argoi. They are mortals, hailing from a little village in Crete, called to be Foremen by one of the Gods (the Overseer) because the Masters had grown soft and an "old duty" forced the God to send someone in. However, this role was to be a charade, known by no one other than the Argos and his Overseer. "One Argos for each Master." 

From there Nikos explains how his grandfather was Jean-Marie's and Clément's Argos, and how he was raised on the stories, tragedies really, of this Labyrinth. (This part is really powerful, so I'm going to present it in full)

> "I spent my whole life dreaming of... of this." The snake looks at his own hands, feels the emptiness of his eye socket and the seeping exhaustion. "This, none of this was supposed to happen. This Master was supposed to be a good man, that's what I was told. I thought he'd be just like Jean-Marie. That's what we all believed, me and - and Bampàs, and Mamà." The tears fall before he can notice them. "But it's not... that's not what happened." His fingernails dig into his scales, leaving war-red gashes. "It's all my fault. I pushed him to send you out because that's what I was supposed to do. It's what I was told to do. I thought it'd be just like the old stories, with the hero outsmarting the monster. I'm an actor, goddamnit! I had to play the role of Oedipus in a theatre to be accepted for this job... I didn't expect {Player name} to do any of those things to you. I - I'm sorry. I'm so sorry."

Nikos goes on to explain that he felt too guilty over his actions to continue, so he called for help from every God of every legend until the Narrator answered. With their insight and their help, he was able to uncover and retrieve the Gift, which he pulls out from his bag and shows to the shocked Asterion, telling him it will finally grant him freedom from the Labyrinth, the masters, the cycles, everything. Asterion starts to reach for the light of the Gift, but pauses at the last moment to ask a question. "And what of you? What will happen to you once I leave this place?"

Nikos pauses, before answering that his boss, the godly Overseer, must know of his treasonous actions by now. If he does not die from his new wounds from the Effigy, he will only make it back to face the Overseer's retribution. He tries to set his face in a stony indifference, but now that he knows to look, Asterion sees through him. Argos may act indifferent to his fate, but Dominikos is terrified beyond words. Determined, Asterion draws himself up, and proposes a different idea to Nikos: "You will leave this place with me. You will accompany me to wherever that [Gift] leads. And if you are truly sorry, you will spend every day for the rest of your life atoning for what you've done." 

With a surprised smile, Nikos accepts: "...Very well. I will do as you command, your majesty. It's only just, after all." Together, the two take hold of the light in the Gift, and in a flash of light, vanish from the valley. The Hotel's hearth flickers out: everyone is gone, and the Labyrinth, the Narrator quips, "is well and truly forsaken. Now at last, the curtain falls upon our role in this matter as well. There is no more of this tale to tell. End the trouble here, please, just where they left it." End of chapter 3.

The epilogue for all 3 Dust and Silence endings is the same (hence the ending's name despite the 3 routes to arrive): Storm and P enter the abandoned Hotel and begin investigating. This time, after finding and reading the same abandoned note of poetry, they hear a voice drifting down the hall. The two prepare themselves and advance into the lounge, where a man drink alone at the bar: It is the godly Overseer, here to clean things up and shut the whole realm down now that it is abandoned. But first, he sulks: the minotaur may be free and he may have finally gotten a redeemer, but the Overseer's original plots and plans lie in ruins, and he's going to be bitched out by "the brat" for who knows how long for the realm ending up like this on his watch as Overseer. It takes a moment of P calling out to the man to be noticed, and at first the man seems extremely angered to see P specifically. Still, P pushes on to ask some questions, which calms the Overseer down and he answers them derisively: Sure, this was the Minotaur's Hotel, but everyone's gone and it's time for this place to go too. The Overseer stands up to leave and P tries to push back and demand answers for the new questions the Overseer's flippant words are creating. This angers the Overseer and they have an intense staredown until the Overseer shakes off his anger instead of acting on it. Sighing, the Overseer walks past the two and tells them to just forget about all of this, they're too late and anything they wanted here is gone. With one last taunting exchange, the Hotel suddenly blinks out of existence around P and Storm, leaving the pair standing outside of P's car in the middle of the desert road. The Hotel is gone, the valley is gone, his inheritance... it's all gone. Sure enough, P flares his tailfeathers and confirms that the visions he used to see 'in his dreams' are gone too, and he cries out in anger and frustration.

After letting him rage for a while, Storm asks 'what now?', to which P responds that he just doesn't know. Storm fidgets and then asks about their deal, because they did find that hotel, right? P stares him down a little bit then shrugs. "I guess we'll have to figure that out, too, kid." The two load back up into the car and start driving, minds whirling over what to do next. We fade to black, and end with P's narration: "There is no 'Minotaur's Hotel'. There is no inheritance. There is no satisfaction of an answer to the questions which still linger in his mind and burn like vinegar on his tongue. There is only the peacock, the bull, and the vast emptiness of the wasteland surrounding them."

END: "Dust and Silence" alternate to "Welcome to the Minotaur Hotel", Argos and Asterion are drawn in the background of the credits, playing their instruments.

Spoilers: Full spoilers from Ending: Welcome to the Minotaur Hotel

Ah Asterion... a true tragedy, us as the audience knowing what you're missing by not turning around and look for the Foreman like you do when pissed off at the Master in the Dust and Silence version. No real spoilers were expunged from this ending.

Full spoilers from Ending: Dust and Silence alternate of Welcome to the Minotaur Hotel

This one is probably the best ending out of all 6 Ruthless route endings, mostly because it seems to end the best for our boys and the Master gets done in by his hubris... well, I concede Snekboi is not in a great state physically, though, compared to the last Dust and Silence on the next post. There are no real new spoilers to discuss in this one either, that isn't already covered better elsewhere, like the Overseer being Hermes. 

(+1)

Spoilers: A Summary of the Ruthless Route (Ending: "As You Are, I Once Was")

In the As You Are, I Once Was ending, the Master has decided that there must be some sort of trick to Argo's scheme, and refuses to push Asterion into the pit until he grills Argos for more information. In turn, Argos pressures the Master to hurry up and act, that there is no trick. The player gets presented with some options to express doubt on, but no matter what you pick, Argos gets ticked off, cuts off the Master, and demands he just do his job already and punish the prisoner. This gets the Master to push back harder about getting his questions answered first, and Argos gets in his face over it, trying to loom over the Master and demand no more questions or games. As the Master lashes out to push Argos back, he accidentally strikes the Elixir in Argos' hand, sending it tumbling down to the ground. It shatters on the hard ground, liquid quickly absorbed by the arid, dusty ground. Despite Argos' best efforts to salvage even a single drop, it is of no use on this cursed ground.

Once Argos gets over his initial shock, he alights in rage and lunges for the Master's throat, but is forced to pull up short due to the laws and rules protecting the Master of the Labyrinth. Unable to lay a hand on the Master, Argos shrinks away and screams at him, how the Master has no idea what he's just done, what toil and hardship he has just ruined by his careless actions. Argos' lamentations quickly turn inward, how cursed he is that all his sacrifices are in vain. He obliquely calls out to the Narrator, who still does not respond or interject, and Argos' words turn into sobbed mourning over his lost plot.

But the Master has no interest in waiting for the snake to calm down, and demands his own answers for all of this. He twists Argos' words about sacrifices around on him, saying how clearly the Master has sacrificed the most just trying to deal with the snake's plots and schemes. Getting angrier and angrier, the Master says maybe he should throw Argos down into this pit instead, and starts working himself up more when Asterion cries out "Enough! Enough!" and interrupts the Master with his own meltdown and angry outbursts over the whole situation.

Once Asterion has calmed down somewhat, the Master drops Agros (on the ground, though he has a fleeting thought about using the pit instead) and calls over to Asterion, who is at first unresponsive. The Master walks over to Asterion and starts to reach for his shoulder, but Asterion wrenches away from his touch, eyes opening in a fury of his own. After the week of withdrawal into himself, Asterion is finally lucid once more, and he is fucking pissed. This Master has been crueler by far than all of the others, yet he still pulls back at the last second of sacrifice, and Asterion demands to know why. The player can pick from a few options about Asterion's usefulness or not trusting Argos, but the response doesn't seem to matter, as no matter what you say, Asterion simply doesn't care anymore. He's completely numbed himself up to this cruel Master and his cruel games and is done with any pretense or thoughts otherwise. 

Asterion suggests you both simply head back to the Hotel and starts walking off without the Master, when Argos calls out to him to wait, calling him by name for the first time. He rushes over to Asterion and grab on to his forearm, trying to explain that there's another way out of this, that Argos can provide freedom for him. Immediately, the Master takes offense and almost slaps Argos, but barely remembers at the last moment that the contract for the Mirror of Hestia would be breached, returning it to the snake and leaving the Hotel's hearth cold. Instead, he pulls Argos' hand off of Asterion and shoves the snake away, telling him to fuck off and never show his face again. To drive it home, the Master adds an order to Asterion that if he ever sees Argos again here in the valley, to not interact and immediately let the Master know. New orders in place, the Master and Asterion head for the Hotel, leaving the lamenting snake in their dust.

Since there is no poisoned elixir to consume the Master's thoughts and actions on the way back to the Hotel, the Narrator is left guessing what they are thinking: What will they do about the guests and the revolt back at the Hotel? Expel them, or have their words finally penetrated the Master's hardened heart? What does the Master regret, the suffering of Asterion at their hands, or that they have nothing to show for today's endeavor? Perhaps the Master's lack of time? If the snake had spoken true and the Master had more time, what wonders would the Master have done and old heroes' civilizations would have been restored in the world through the power of this realm? And what of the gods, would the Master's pious worship have eventually summoned the Olympians to recognize their efforts? 

All of this matters not without time, so the Narrator moves on to their own plea for the Master: "Regardless, what has been done cannot be undone. You have made your choices. And so look forward, Master. [...] Rule our land, you know you have the power. But rule the land of the living, not a wasteland! Do you hear our pleading, O Master {player name}? Do our words reach your heart - whatever pale and withered remnant yet dwells within you? If they do, and if you would take the advice of these humble observers, then hear us and hear us well. {the screen fades to black} You do wrong when you take good men for bad, bad men for good. A true friend thrown aside - why, life itself is not more precious! In time, you will know this well. For time and time alone will show the just man, though scoundrels are discovered in a day." End of chapter 3.

The epilogue chapter for this route is very different from the other ones, and does not feature P or Storm at all. It starts with some familiar text: "You don't remember much about that night." - the starting text for the game. Though it follows up with "Then again, you don't remember much of anything anymore." The Master has since left the Hotel behind, something having been extinguished inside of them on that day out in the valley. Asterion served as he had to, seen but not heard, and with a lingering animosity that made the Master never actually converse with him again. As demanded, Argos was never heard from again. And though the hearth never went out, no guests ever came to the Hotel, leaving just the Master and "the rotting fruit of [his] labor, to enjoy [his] kingdom of solitude and silence." Eventually, the Master could not take it and left for the outside world once more, but no hearth would ever warm him, no bed would ever let him rest, and no one would ever welcome him in to their place. They wander, "homeless, friendless, and forsaken." 

Suddenly, we find ourselves with a familiar background and, again, some familiar text: "Eventually, you found yourself in a bus station." Where before this bus station was a confusing respite that started their journey, here nothing can penetrate the aura of desolation that wraps itself around the forsaken Master. He slips into the cafe and pours himself a cup of coffee, checking the clock to see its time: 3AM. The Master is on his last legs, but he can tell he is close - "to redemption perhaps, if [he] deserved it, but to an ending either way." 

The Master is so caught up in his memories (and hallucinations of those memories here in the cafe) that he almost missed the young man standing in the doorway of the cafe. After a moment to rattle those thoughts back into place, he gestures the young man to come and join him, pouring a cup of coffee for the newcomer. They make small talk and the young man tells the old man his name, but just as before, the old man has a hard time grabbing it: "He tells you his name is John - or is it Justin? Does it even start with a J?" ((I named my Ruthless run character with a J so I don't know if they do this for every letter of the alphabet or not, haha)) The familiar chat and questions continue, though from the other perspective now. When asked about their background, the young man's matches the Master's, and the old, forsaken Master is finally satisfied about the character of this young man. He pulls out a certain old piece of paper and tries to pass it to the young man. In the plea this time, though, the Master adds: "It... he needs a purpose, though. Be good. Take care of him."

As the Master was, the young man is skeptical and the old man must plead his case, thinking "Maybe this youngster will be the redeemer that was promised so long ago. Maybe he'll be worse than you were. But maybe, just maybe, he'll do better. […] This is your last chance to do it right." We fade to black as the old Master says: "Just... take the deed." 

END "As You Are, I Once Was"

Ending: Dust and Silence alternate to As You Are, I Once Was

This ending splits from the above right after the Master picks an answer to Asterion's question to why they pulled up short of sacrificing him. Rather than deciding to numb himself entirely to this even crueler Master and continue serving him, Asterion has had enough and pushes back, taking control of the situation (while Argos watches incredulously from the background): "Then begone with you." Incredulous, the Master can only respond "Excuse me?", and in turn Asterion draws himself up, as tall and proud as he can manage, staring the Master down with contempt. "I said begone with you. Go." He even gestures for the Master to get out of his sight; as though he the master and the Master the servant. "I'm tired, Master... no, {player name}. I'm tired of this farce. So go on back to your Hotel. You're welcome to it. I will remain here, in the valley."

Angered, the Master tries invoking Asterions' oath of servitude, summarizing it as 'The Prisoner Asterion pledges loyalty and servitude to the Labyrinth's Master.' However, the Master is wrong on the terms of the oath, which Asterion is happy to correct him on: "And I think that you are forgetting the terms of that oath. 'The Prisoner will carry the burden of servitude, but shall not suffer the Labyrinth's wrath within the Hotel's territory.' " He gives a wry smile. "What do I have to fear of the Labyrinth's wrath? I'd rather suffer a thousand deaths at the hands of its monsters than spend one moment more under your thumb."

Offended, the Master stares Asterion and the quivering Argos down and angrily tries calling Asterion's bluff. "Fine then. Stay out here, see if I care. You and that liar can play all the games you want together. I've got a hotel to run." He turns on his heel and stalks away, eyes locked on to the Hotel and thinking "There's still so much to do, And your time to do it is already running out." as we fade to black.

We shift to a new scene and a music change - a flashback to just last night. The Narrator is talking to Argos, who is huddled in his home and getting ready to sleep, hoping to get to dream once more of home, of a mother's kindness and a father's advice. All of his wounds feel fresh: his vitality ebbs in his chest from the ritual, as does the scar on his side from it, to say nothing of the ghost of his eye and the emptiness it left behind. For a seemingly final time, the Narrator asks "Is your soul prepared to see this through?", and, no matter his circumstances, Argos replies "Yes, [Narrator]. Whatever may come." Argos closes his eyes.

... but merciful sleep does not come. Feeling for him, the Narrator decides to chat with Argos, "so that at least his mind could enjoy a period of grace." The Narrator decides to ask what is really motivating him to take this 'unblessed' path, as all Argoi before him - even his admired grandfather - had to tolerate violent masters before. 

At first, Argos parrots some of the words he said the first time he made contact with the Narrator, words of vengeance which drew the Narrator here to make a pact, but the Narrator pries deeper: "but why you of all Argoi? What changed that now one of your lineage, you, had the hubris to rise above your station?"

After a pause and a shift in position, Nikos finally responds with his own voice and thoughts. "I was told it was the right thing to do." 

He explains how he was raised on the old tales of heroes and monsters, including how Cadmus and his wife Harmonia became snakes in their old age but remembered humanity, and thus had no venom, this creating his race of snake people. "We are one with humanity," he says, "but apart. Touched by Python's distant chaos."

He pauses, then continues "Those tales, aren't they beautiful? Any my Papouli was part of one himself. The old Master Jean-Marie, who the prisoner cherished so much... He was just as rotten as his brother Clément." Nikos claims that only through the tempting at his Papouli's hands as the role of Argos that Jean-Marie learned better: "It was only then that he became the figure the minotaur remembers and loves. That, he told me, was the role of the Argos. To play the trickster and lead, through subterfuge, the human Master to what's right. A holy duty, [Narrator]. Given, no less, by a God of old. [...] That's why I did it, [Narrator]. I was told it was the right thing to do. Blessed.  I believed it.   I didn't do it for honor or glory, but because I thought it was right.  For my Papouli, too."

Then, Niko's demeniour sours. "Then this man comes, {player name}. It's not right. By all that's holy, it's not right." Here, the Narrator responds: 'But it's what the Olympians' sentence demands.' After a pause, Nikos replies "But my pact now is with [you, Narrator]." 'How regretful it is that you were born of Cadmus' lineage, Dominikos. You would have made a fine [addition to] my ranks.'

After a pause, Nikos finds himself bold enough to ask if he may ask the Narrator a question, which she allows. "What is the Underworld like?" 

Suddenly, we hard cut to black and the next scene, music stopping instantly.

The next scene focuses on Asterion, who is trying to control his breathing... the righteous fury that had him spite the Master is starting to ebb to questions and concerns over life now in the valley. His breathing routine is stopped by Argos, who calls out to him by name. When Asterion turns to glare at Argos, the snake quickly holds up his hands to shield himself from the minotaur, calling out "Wait! Just... listen to me." Assuming he just wants to speak of his torture, the reinvigorated Asterion taunts Argos about the pit, but Argos in turn says "No, I... I don't want to torture you. Look, I know you don't have any reason to trust me. But just listen and hear me out. If you don't like what I have to say, then... I swear by the name of [Overseer's true name that Argos has danced around until now] that I'll never trouble you again."

Either sensing some sort of truth or seeing no other alternative, Asterion sits down a few paces away from the snake and allows him to continue, so continue Argos does. He starts with the events of the past week: the plot Argos had against the Master and the trials and ordeals undertaken, all for the sake of bringing this meeting to pass. That leads into the revelation of the realm's 'supplanted purpose; the conspiracy which dates back to the Labyrinth's very founding': The hidden Gift, the efforts of the Overseer and the Argoi - including giving his real name of Dominikos - the testing of the Master's character in hopes of finding a good person to be the redeemer... everything. And in this ending, Asterion absorbs all of these truths silently, but not as harshly as some of the other endings.

It is late afternoon when Nikos is done speaking, and after a little time for Asterion to reflect, Argos asks what's next, with freedom finally within reach. Ever hopeful, no matter how many times it has been yanked away, Asterion decides he wants to see this Gift. Nikos agrees... "on one condition." Immediately, Asterion's guard goes up, ready for this all to have been a trick, when Nikos explains "Please, Asterion... Prince Asterion of Crete... Take me with you. {Asterion's sprite is stunned while Nikos' starts shaking} The one who set me to my task must know of my treason by now. If I stay here, or try to return home after everything I've done, surely I'll be made to face [their] retribution."

Asterion looks over the trembling Nikos, scared and alone, and he finds even his numbed heart melting at the sight. He recognizes this could still all be a deception... 'But for the moment, Asterion chooses to believe. After all, he has nothing lest to lose. "...Very well. But if you're lying to me, then not even the binding of the Labyrinth will prevent me from making sure you regret it." Relieved, Nikos promises that he understands, and leads Asterion over the hill from where our perspective stays. After a few moments, a bright light flashes and blinks out, leaving only a faint glimmer to pierce the darkness. Like the other Dust and Silence endings, the Hotel's hearth flickers out everyone gone... except, this time, for the Master. However, "And as for the Master, his mandate rendered moot, surely he too shall soon follow." The Narrator then quips, "Now at last, the curtain falls upon our role in this matter as well. There is no more of this tale to tell. End the trouble here, please, just where they left it." End of chapter 3.

((I'm at character limit for this post, look to the other Dust and Silence epilogues for this ending, as it is the same))

END: "Dust and Silence" alternate to "As You Are, I Once Was", Argos and Asterion are drawn in the background of the credits, playing their instruments.

(+1)

This has really sated my curiosity of the ruthless route. I whole heartedly believe that every moment of the route is Impactful and full of heavy emotions. All I can think is how raw the scene are that not only did it break the player, but would break me as well. It is bitter sweet that you learn so much about argos, yet give him so much suffering. A price to pay for knowledge. I thank you for giving in-depth written post of the routes plot because I will not touch it. I will not be happy putting everyone in this catatonic state lol. 

(+3)

You're welcome! It is really impactful and explores the overall themes of Minotaur Hotel in big important ways, which is why I wanted to do it justice and write up a very detailed summary of its content so more people could learn about it. Hopefully by skipping the worst of the traumatic bits, rewriting it to mostly never be 2nd person (I found it felt a lot worse to see "You order Asterion to follow you" rather than "The Master orders Asterion to follow."), and using 'The Master' to refer to the player instead of our more common 'MC' designator, it helps provide distance that this is exploring the tragedy of the Ruthless route, rather than being something the player has chosen to do.

(+1)

Which i believe is fitting since at this point, the master is now a whole new entity then before. Seeming like once you open the doors to the route, the master changes altogether. How did you feel about the shift? Was it gradual enough to make you reflect upon your actions or harsh enough to make you recoil? I understand now what someone told me about this cycle being broken, but in a explosive way. Rather then harmonies in the main route What happens to Asterion once free in some routes is unknown, but then he would be subjugated to the las against his kind no? Broken in such a state. Kinda continuing this cycle which the game loves to point out and keep surfaced. What is your thoughts on the main route after completing all the ruthless routes? It makes me think that the simple humane actions you do by giving asterion kindness is very underplayed. Made to think its the simplest thing one can do yet has a huge impact as we can see now.

(1 edit) (+3)

The hard part for me is the dissonance pre-the Ruthless route's start after Chapter 12. The Ruthless Master's actions versus the rest of the narrative still going on before the story forks - recruiting Kota or Luke, the other times you're chatting with Asterion about starting up the Hotel and not being the worst etc. Once the route begins after Chapter 12, it is a lot easier to separate the character the Master has become from me as the Player/MC and the choices I'm picking to see the content. It's still tough seeing a very traumatized person not only be denied the help and therapy they need to deal with their trauma, but instead getting new trauma heaped on to them, but once you're in the Ruthless chapters, the Master is more of their own character with their own hubris that they need to get foisted by like any good tragedy. In fact, I'd say these chapters are a great tragedy that really has punch because you're in some control over what type/details of the tragedy you see. 

I do think this helps underscore a point the devs made about the Ruthless route before it was done: it does make doing the right thing more impactful to do because you can actively chose the wrong thing to do to someone like Asterion. The tough part is how much a VN wants you to self-insert to the story, so it feels much more personal not just choosing to do evil things, but hearing the dark thoughts in Asterion's head and actions behind closed doors that an abuser would never see as a consequence of their actions. It's really important to note just how much they wrote the MC to very intentionally not do anything that would abuse his power over Asterion beyond the ruthless content and maybe trying to send him out naked or just in his underwear. The main route MC talks with Kota about this because of the power dynamic, and the only reason our relationship with Asterion can work is that Asterion knows we're never actually ordering him to do something, even when we say "refer to us by name, not as Master" - he knows it's never truly an order, just colloquialism. 

(+2)

That breaking things bit was me, heh. I've been thinking more about that and ruthless in general.

The title of the route is extremely relevant. It's not the "ruthless" route, it's specifically "The Ruthless Master". This means many different things at once. It's your part in this story. It's the actions taking place. But more importantly, it's one of the sacred roles the labyrinth was built around.

Whether it's gradual or harsh is fairly irrelevant. It can be either depending on your choices. Are you withdrawn immediately and justifying your bad decisions the entire time or did you accidentally "slip" and break your promise to never send Asterion to the valley? The reason goodness can exist is because of the Gods and their lack of imagination. "The Ruthless Master" is almost like a fast food training video or an infomercial. They take things to their worst possible conclusion to get the point across, regardless of how realistic it would be for you to get in those situations. This is how Gods saw human nature. The labyrinth was constructed to give a human the power to gain could ever want except one: Time. No matter how gradual or suddenly the shift to Ruthless Master is, no matter the excuses or motivations, it's all just a reverberation of the past playing out again. What may seem like once to you is something Asterion has lived through more than an unforgivable amount of times.

I haven't mentioned it until now, but Act 1 of The Ruthless Master is titled "Time Demands His Due". Chapter 12 pre-TRM is very different from Chapter 12 normally because of how much work is done to establish how stark our leads perception of time is. This comes through the dance between Asterion's thoughts and Nemesis's offerings. This of course happens throughout the good route, but there are a few distinctions. Nemesis no longer filters her words to be approachable by the reader and is instead focused on the timescale of someone who has lived multiple thousands of years. She likely knows we could be listening, but at that point, it is too late and wants to emphasize that no matter how important and rational we view our actions, we are utterly insignificant to the two of them.

Then there's the brilliant mechanical shift. Asterion talks about the delay between action and reaction. Likewise, there are stops inserted mid-sentence to punctuate the unnatural rhythm as well as emphasize the cruelty of endless mundanity without having a will. It's a dance between Asterion and those writing and coding. Probably the cruelest sentence is uttered here: "Reign yourself." How easily a false freedom from submission could be misappropriated into a slogan of self-power.  It occupied both and considering it's said of a prince, there are many layers at play to make two words put together sting. 

This repetition, odd rhythm, and self-torture to cope with physical torture all work in tandem to highlight how non-existent your voice is at this point. It's almost been entirely removed from what should be a shift into Asterion wanting to trust you. You are a blip. Your words aren't new. They're not unique. They're not special, and in the blink of an eye in the grand scheme of things, you'll be gone. This really highlights what helps the main story work. Part of why the romance is so special between you and Asterion is that it forces Asterion into a human timeframe. A good master to Asterion may be akin to a good month to us. The timescale is so vastly different that he knows there will eventually be another person to take your place. So while a romance with Asterion may be akin to a life well-spent, something eternal and sacred to your identity and experience, Asterion has to cope with knowing how finite that time is. However, because of that mortal fear he gets a chance to experience humanity to a fuller degree than he's previously been afforded.

As for Nikos and his actions, I think the fifteenth tablet is likely the most relevant thing here. There are a few things that stick out, but there's one line I want to point.

"A price must be paid to do what is right, all men know."

In a tablet titled "Folly". The right thing only requires a price when there is injustice attached, be it personal or societal. In many ways, The Ruthless Master is allegorical using figures we will understand*. It feels very ritualistic. Nikos sees the old gaining power and thus uses that opportunity to play by old-school rules. "An eye for an eye." Justice was something entirely different then and Nikos, through Nemesis, can exploit that way of thinking at the cost of harm done to at least him, possibly others.

*God, I'd love for Nikos to put on a one-person stage play iteration of this. Using a stripper pole from Luke to ascend as everyone watches on in dismay lmao. Maybe Khenbish and his die would appreciate it. :P I low-key ship them but that's neither here nor there. I just want Khenbish to be happy and I think Nikos and his oiled and burnt optimism would stick with him.

-------

Okay, I really need to get sleep. I just have a couple of thoughts while writing this and replaying some of The Ruthless Master route. Wish I had more energy to more into the allegorical aspects, but I don't know if my train of thought will be there tomorrow. Anyway:

Really cute to have the Fake Argos snake say the master is peacocking about.

I find it interesting that Asterion plays the Lyre. It so heavily emphasizes the strings over other material. Considering the imagery of the fates, it feels like Asterion taking some control over the strings in his life. It also brings to mind the labyrinth and yarn, also a part of "Folly'. Folly itself isn't inherently negative, more just unrealistic with an undercurrent of foolishness. Interesting that Folly is a tablet with no ornamentation that also mentions the potential of a surprise rekindling.


God, I hope even a fraction of this makes sense lmao goooooodnight

(+1)

oh yeah, are we the interloper or is that Nikos? Hm

(1 edit) (+1)

Its funny how you pull such magnificent strands of thoughts right when you go to bed hmm? Every run I play through it haunts me to believe that asterion knows how much you love him yet you as a player may or may not have that sinking feeling that this will not last forever. The scene with the knife really brought it to light. Though your time may be fleeting, it's enough that your time spent has eased his mind when you don the lead ring. The master was right when he mentions no man should have that much power. 


Argos is just a whole trip on its own. At the very core of it all. It's just a play, and a role he dons to prove himself to the gods. The pelt was the mask and by the gods he did his part. I like to think once he relinquished the pelt, it was him taking the mask off. No more Argos but Nikos. Being lucky in the main route, and reaping what he sowed in the ruthless. At the very least honourable enough to fix what he has caused. That in my mind, is what makes Nikos a great character

 I love hearing from everyone and getting an idea what the game has brought and how everyone digests its contents. Y'all are awesome.


Edit- I'm so glad you popped up so you can have the credit you owed I forgot you told me ;-;

(+1)

Lol, pleaaaaase don't worry about credit with me unless I'm posting like an actual work. That was a comment I wrote specifically for you in regard to something you posted to make sure you got what the route was about. (Without revealing too much in case you decided to play.) That you remember the idea says more than enough.

(+1)

Just as a general addendum now that I've gotten some rest:

I meant to include this when discussing the mechanical way the story expressed Asterion's reversion. It's clear the purpose was to show Asterion withdrawing and disassociating. What I wanted to conclude was how both this and the master are succumbing to spiraling thoughts and how it manifests further pushes the other away. The master, lacking time, is impatient. Asterion, having nothing but time, turns to contemplation to avoid upsetting the master. This makes the master more impatient and less kind, which causes Asterion to have to think harder on how to please him which results in a longer time between responses. It's an ebb and flow that is pushing things to their inevitable conclusion

(+1)

Spoilers: Full spoilers from Ending: As You Are, I Once Was

This is another ending looking at the theme of things being a cycle, but I think it's very important to note that this (in my opinion) is probably just 'recursion' and not some stuff where the Master time-travels back to the beginning of the game and is that exact old man. While a neat idea, things don't line up with the deed reverting to the 'old man' (even further spoilers: Poseidon) on Clément's death, and there have been no other signs of time-travel powers or gods of time being invoked at all in the story, even in this route. It's a good way to show that the Master has cursed themselves, even if they did not die from their hubris with the poisoned elixir, but I really think that's a far as we should read into it... of course, let me know if you disagree!

Let me know if you named yourself with a different letter/name and thus got the old man at the end here to use that letter... It's a great touch if true and would've been a bit of extra legwork from the devs for an easter egg, though I really wonder what names get plucked for rarer characters or even symbols lol.

Also, the speedrunner response to meeting another speedrunner is as great as you'd expect: the old man looks down on the young man because they speedrun a stupid game, calling them a "Cringe ass nae nae bitch" (or something really close to that).

Full spoilers from Ending: Dust and Silence alternate of As You Are, I Once Was

Also one of the better ending results, the Master is not dead of the poison, but they are completely irrelevant once the boys are gone, which is its own just reward. This one actually has some spoilers I glossed over during Nemesis' chat flashback with Nikos, he goes into more detail about Jean-Marie being artifacts and information from Joseph the Merciful, whom Nikos clearly reveres as though he is a saint. Then, when talking about the Overseer, Hermes, Nikos makes some really interesting lore claims:

A holy duty, Goddess, Given, no less, by a God of old. Mama and Bampas... and the priest back at the village, too... they all told me He, the one I should not mention ((Hermes)), even knew the Christ. They said He was John the Baptist. That is had always been Him. That's why I did it, Goddess. I was told it was the right thing to do. Blessed.

So uhhhh, in this universe Hermes was a very famous preacher and figure in Catholic mythology. It starts hinting how Nikos and the snakes are so favored by the Olympic gods yet say Catholic prayers and the like. I think we should, maybe in the old theory thread or in a fresh one, inspect the way P looks at and uses the Ave Maria & Holy Mary invocations so much, yet was created by Hera in light of these (because the term is hilarious) crossovers.

Also, I suspect the hard cut after Nikos asks what the Afterlife is like is because Nemesis actually does tell him, but could get in sooooooo much trouble for it that she blocks it from our view or I guess her memory. Nowhere else in the game have we had a cut this hard, so it really sticks out as intentional. I suppose it could be because she's pissed he asks, too, but I dunno, I like to hope she'd give him this reward for his devotion to her VENGEANCE ways.

(2 edits) (+1)

Thanks for the overview. I just finished the good route (*what's done as of v0.5), and I'm too soft to do any of the ruthless routes. Even reading parts of the summary genuinely made me nauseated lol, I would not be able to handle actually playing through it. I'll stick with the good ending, even if I end up missing out on some lore.

Edit: When I made this comment I had only skimmed the summaries and missed a lot of important details. This morning I read through them more carefully and they aren't as bad as my brain autofilling the blanks made them out to be.  A lot of interesting plot here - curious about how some of this will manifest in the main route!

Developer (1 edit) (+5)

Thanks a lot for writing the summary, RockJock. I hope people are willing to give the route a shot after reading this and knowing that very little time is spent indulging in the characters wallowing in misery, and more exploring Argos' character and the game's ongoing subplots and mysteries. I'd like to make a couple observations:

1) In "As You Are, I Once Was", yup, it's not intended to be a perfect parallel with the start of the game, you meet the next master that will take over the role after the MC, but you're not the old man at the start of the game. It's not a time loop.

(I named my Ruthless run character with a J so I don't know if they do this for every letter of the alphabet or not, haha)

I hate to disappoint you but that's not the case. That said, it's a pretty kickass idea and I may have to steal it.

Your theory of a donut shaped universe is intriguing, Homer. I may have to  steal it.” RIP Stephen Hawking.: TheSimpsons

(If you're ok with it, of course. Shouldn't take more than adding a python dict with the key being the first character in the MC's name and the values being a list of two or three names.)

2) I don't think you touched on this but for the people who DON'T want to play the routes, the next master in this ending is given a sprite, but it's basically a featureless gray character wearing jeans and a shirt that wouldn't look out of place in a YCH auction. We went with that because even if he's not the main character... you never know, someone might get the idea that it's the canon look for the MC, so we were as vague as possible.

3) In the "Welcome to Minotaur Hotel" ending,

They are still there, but the hearth has gone out, and Asterion apologizes for the delay. We don't hear words from or see sprites of anyone but Asterion at this point, though, who apologizes for keeping everyone waiting.

Don't know if it's clear in the summary but I'd like to emphasize "you don't hear words from or see sprites of anyone but Asterion" here. Everyone left and Asterion's completely lost it. I heard someone got this as their first ruthless ending, and that sucks because it's probably the bleakest and the closest to what people would expect from "bad ending in a visual novel".

4) On the subject of Nikos' religion,

 I think just that it's a little blink-and-you'll-miss-it that Argos/Nikos and his family are some flavor of Catholic, since they specifically say grace before they eat.

Catholics are not the only denomination that say grace before dinner. It's more likely that Nikos would be Eastern Orthodox rather than Catholic, being born in Crete and all. Although I'll concede that, considering the majority of the team was raised Catholic, the way the scene plays out may not be the most accurate to how a Greek family would say grace before a meal.

And about Hermes being John the Baptist,

Mama and Bampas... and the priest back at the village, too... they all told me He, the one I should not mention ((Hermes)), even knew the Christ. They said He was John the Baptist. That is had always been Him.
So uhhhh, in this universe Hermes was a very famous preacher and figure in Catholic mythology.

We're not the first to make the connection, scholars have compared the symbology between the two figures for a long time. I'm not the theology expert in the team (that would be Kangarube, who IIRC wrote that line), but the basic gist is that both figures act like messengers to the gods and psychopomps, and there are similarities between rites performed to Hermes/Mercury and the blessing of holy water. It's interesting to read into.

5) To the people who didn't play it, there's a credit sequence at the end of the ruthless route endings, with either Asterion playing the lyre, Argos playing the trumpet, both, or neither, depending on your ending.

There's a song you can play in the music menu, "Seikilos Trumpet", by Jake, which starts playing as the endings are about to wrap up. I tried to time it so the vocals start as the credits begin to roll. It's one of the nicest pieces of music we received for the game and I didn't want a recap of the Ruthless route for people who didn't play it to not acknowledge it. We'll be using it for the main quest's ending, too.


And as a general comment, thank you all for taking the time to dissect a piece of content that we knew wasn't going to be a lot of people's cup of tea but still made the game more enjoyable for the small fraction of people that played it. The game wouldn't be complete without it and I'm happy to see it was effort that didn't go to waste.

(+5)

Yeah man, no problem. I didn't think I needed to call it out but to be clear, these endings are fully crafted experiences with all the polish you get reading the rest of the VN: the text boxes advancing in certain cadences to mimic speech, the sprites moving and changing expression, the chilling music selection, etc. It's not just torture porn with reused asset soup, there's a tragedy here getting told that probably lands a lot harder than people are used to since I don't think we really seek them out in popular culture anymore, and because you're not just reading it but getting to experience it with art, music, text, and a degree of participation. It's a powerful experience.

1) Yeah, I kind-of wanted to get ahead of someone positing a time loop theory since I felt my summary implied it more than actually going through the route does. Glad I could spark the idea for the name, though, go for it! It was already a cool touch that the young man matches your background and pushes back on accepting the deed if you did as well, so that's why I thought it was intentional, haha. It did add to the experience for sure, so I think it's worth it if you can slap it in without too much hassle.

2) That's a good point! I was running a little on fumes by the time I was writing up the last ending summary and spoilers section, so I didn't think to point it out. If the forums had a better way to hide spoiler images in some sort of expander box, I'd snag a screenshot and put it in the spoiler post. 

3) Oh no, I totally did not pick up on that! I 100% thought there really was Kota and Luke in the lounge because I assumed they would've waited at least a day for the Master and Asterion to return, I just thought it was a stylistic choice to not show their sprites or their words to Asterion because he's already given up and pulled into himself and his own head. Definitely fucked that they didn't, but with no Master and no one with the deed willed to them, it's possible the realm itself threw everyone else out before Asterion made it back... at least, that's what I'm going to tell myself.

4) Oh man, I'm learning all sorts of stuff here! It's easy to assume that the mythical snake people created from these gods would only ever worship them, so I am very interested to learn more from him back on the 'main' route, I just jumped the gun on calling him Catholic, then. Sorry Nikos, lol. 
Also, as you can tell, I definitely never heard about that theoretical link for John the Baptist and Hermes/Mercury, very interesting! I'm still gonna shitpost and call it a crossover, though, even if it's both canon and canon

5) Oh yes, I was totally remiss not mentioning the phenomenal credits song done by Jake, and having the lyrics start sooner in the credits was a great and powerful choice - I heard this song a lot while summarizing the endings, and it still puts a lump in my throat because it's that powerful at evoking emotion and capstoning an ending to Minotaur Hotel, especially since there are the different versions. I know I called out which characters (Asterion and/or Nikos) appear as a drawing on the background of the credits, that's also what instruments you hear during that ending, if anyone couldn't guess.

I think it really says something how many people, myself included, turned around their opinion/desire to see the Ruthless route to completion once the truths in Chapter 18 (and sooner, for Argos) came to light. You all crafted such amazing twists with a fascinating story & character in Argos/Nikos that I re-engaged with content I had even said in the past that I was going to avoid. That content, in turn, is so good that I took a week to put together these summaries so more people could experience them! I think that's the highest praise I can give for this stuff, and the best way I can say thank you all for not just writing, but creating the whole experience. So, you're welcome, but also thank you.

(+2)

Great summaries, I actually want to go through again to see what I ended up missing (Which is the non Dust and Silence endings) maybe not anytime soon though, I still feel bad about being mean to Asterion. But with the As You Are, I Once Was ending, while my first thought was a time loop, but then I remembered the recursion stuff that P talks about during the Hinterlands chapter, so who knows, maybe the next master has a few spare paperclips on him.

That's a monkey's paw waiting to happen on the speedrunner route. 


(+3)
The game wouldn't be complete without it and I'm happy to see it was effort that didn't go to waste.

To Justice.

Not so much Justice because nothing could ever make up to the pain inflicted to Asterion. But the judgment inflicted on the Master, to Avenge that wrong. That is Vengeance well deserved. 

Viewing posts 21 to 25 of 25 · Previous page · First page