Post by yo252yo in Fuck capitalism but hey...respect copyright! - itch.io

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yo252yo2 days ago (4 edits) (+1)(-3)

Lol i thought the exact same thing as around the same time, thank you for pointing it out. The overtone window has shifted to the right so much that the good old leftist proverb "property is theft" is too radical for contemporary anticapitalists I suppose. I find it slightly worrying that the status quo has become so far, far right that even the "fuck capitalism jam" isnt a good place to develop countercultural alternative systems of ownership and property.

I can only conclude that the jam organizers believe in a form of property that magically doesn't devolve in exploitative capitalism, which strikes me as pretty naive but it still is a somewhat consistent position. At least they don't mandate that all works must defend this weird ideology, so I can still work with that.

To be fair the text also mentions that they believe in self organizing communities so you could try and push for some democratic control of the rules, but democracy usually being an alias for dictatorship of the majority it probably won't change things the way you hope XD

Here's a thorough exploration of why AI hate is fundamentally right wing for anyone interested:

https://yo252yo.wordpress.com/2026/03/23/why-ai-hate-is-fundamentally-right-wing...

Maxy2 days ago(+2)(-1)

This person did not mention the issue of AI and copyright disputes. Did I overlook it?

In addition, Marxism or communism, in fact, aims to enable people to live freely without the need for work, which requires great productivity to achieve. However, this person claims that Marxism advocates the value of labor, but no, he has mistaken the target

yo252yo2 days ago(-1)

yes there is a section of copyright in the blog article, it is well studied and well documented that intellectual property is an inconsistent concept invented by bourgeois to commodify ideas and extract rent from patents. In the article I link this conference by Richard Wolff as an introduction to the resource on the topic:

Furthermore I think you misread the article, the article says that the overemphasis on the labor value of the AI hating crowd is a point that Marxists have studied and well understood, early Marxists fell to the same fallacy and put a lot of emphasis on the labor value too, which is something most serious Marxists have move past AFAIK. Baudrillard's The System of Objects is a great book about this.

Maxy1 day ago(+2)

i see, so when u say private property, it means copyright or something, i thought something reality, like u buy a food, it's ur propertydemolition. i think the way he said (reward people for new ideas) is a good way. but now copyright has a time limit about 60 years, right? it can slightly reduce the impact and ensure the rights of those who invent new things.

yo252yo1 day ago (1 edit) (-1)

I have never said "private property" just property in general, private property is usually excluded from this kind of discussion because it's a different form of property which probably should be called something else.

To be completely transparent, I am against the concept "you buy a food", I am against the use of money especially for basic necessities like food.

There are many alternatives to the concept of intellectual property that those scholar discuss (you can research "copyleft" for instance) that are way more effective that lowering the age limit of the current extractory system. I also should point out that the myth of intellectual property stimulating innovation is also widely disproven.

But it's a whole field of study that I have no desire or credential to summarize in a few forum posts so I'll leave you to your research. Just make sure to consider alternatives to current systems, not just slight modifications, because we need rapid, radical and massive change as confirmed by the doubling of the speed of the current ecosystemic collapse.

Btw you mentionned you were from China, may I ask what part of China, I'm curious about your background, it could help me improve my communication.

Maxy1 day ago(+2)

i mean right now, the world still run base on u need to buy food, but yeah, basic things like food if they can be free, then it's alreay like communist society, but it's still far away. I come from a big city but not hot citys for foreigners i guess... Actually, when I was a child, I was very skeptical about the idea that "copyright can stimulate innovation", but my teacher felt that this was my problem lmao

yo252yo1 day ago(-1)

that is very interesting, thanks for sharing! I disagree with a lot of your presuppositions, there is already enough food produced in the world to feed everyone if the distribution used better mechanisms, there is definitely no "need" for money, but that's also a completely different topic xD I wonder if the education in China around the concept of copyright was always in this direction, I suspect it might have been a lot more skeptical of copyright before the 80s, but that's research I'll keep for some other time :)

Maxy1 day ago(+2)

idk the other countries, but i think food in China is enough, so yeah, but i mean the world run based on it, i think if someone can change it...that's too hard thb lol, after all, this world already run by this way like maybe 4000 years. i guess we need a character like Jesus lol. and well in China, before people basicly follow the west way, like copy how USA does it, and import a lot of things like capital, the core of capitalism, and even a Chinese person wrote an article praising capitalism, which was published in schools and every middle school student had to learn (to be honest, I hated this article at the time).

So in the past, many people in China were actually "worshipping foreign things" or blindly believing in the identity of the "beacon of justice" of the United States. I was also very fond of the United States before I was about 10 years old (because you know, we have to learn English, and most English teachers are from studying abroad in the United States, so they blindly believe in the United States), until later when I went online myself, I found that although many people also like the United States online, after reading history, I realized that the United States is clearly not a so-called "just country"? (Although I later understood that a country cannot be judged by justice or evil, because a country is a collective, a collection of many people), overall, Chinese people now basically understand a truth, which is that we cannot blindly trust Westerners, we need our own system to better protect ourselves

(used translation, cuz too much words XD)

Maxy1 day ago(+3)

We have a specific word to describe those who specialize in smearing domestic affairs and making people follow in the footsteps of the United States, but I can't translate it haha

Maxy1 day ago(+2)

Sorry for writing so many words. When I wrote in Chinese, I didn't realize how much content I had written. English is too verbose ..

yo252yo1 day ago(+1)(-1)

dont worry I found this very very interesting! I don't know a lot about life in China and its history so I'm learning a lot thanks to you!

Maxy1 day ago(+1)

The theme emphasized by China now (or rather the theme I learned about about about 8 years ago) is "innovation and autonomy". Schools encourage middle school students to participate in a competition, which requires you to draw a picture to describe the future. You can give some ideas and thoughts, and even provide a feasible design plan. Regarding copyright issues, most programmers in China are not very concerned about AI copyright issues, but artists are very disliked (referring to those who draw, not including artists who make sculptures or other things, and I don't know about that type of people). However, apart from that, the public has a indifferent attitude and likes to use AI to generate funny pictures or interesting videos. The reasons why domestic artists dislike AI that I have heard are mostly related to copyright. They feel that AI has infringed on their painting copyright. However, I think AI itself is a process of learning images, providing prompt words, and then generating autonomously. I don't think this is considered infringement (but if I say this, artists will definitely kill me). The copyright policy in China is also similar. You can apply for a copyright, and there is a copyright period during which no one can steal your design. Then there is a phenomenon: many graduate or doctoral students must apply for a certain number of copyrights, although I don't know the meaning of this behavior, I think it's just too much. It's just some junk copyright

yeah u didnt say that, i mean in the vid the guy talk about, he metioned private property or something

carlvs.marximvs1 day ago

You mention "property is theft" which was popularized by Proudhon, but you skip the distinction he clearly makes between personal property (possession in P.'s words) and productive/private property. This conflation of terms is a common misunderstanding of socialism, often used by right wing grifters in statements such as "your toothbrush will be shared". When Proudhon used it, he was referring to the landowner and the capitalist that uses (private) property to steal profits from the laborer, which ironically, you end up defending.

An image generated by a web cartoonist is personal property created by the artist. Like a toothbrush, the owner decides if somebody else can use it and under which conditions. It's not productive property because it has no means of replicating itself and creating new goods. Thus, it's not a target for falling under public/cooperative ownership. Generative AI models are productive property, and are very clearly privately owned in today's society. By using them you are just reinforcing private ownership of means that should be socialized.

Disney, Warner and NYT are perfectly capable of defending their intellectual property in court against AI companies and will end up getting favorable deals (either through reparations, redirection of traffic or removal or copyrighted material). The ones that cannot defend the work that was stolen from them are the small artists that cannot afford prolonged legal battles. By using GenAI, you are not destroying intellectual property, you are just strengthening the companies that currently gain the most from it.

Socialism doesn't just mean "free stuff"; it means equal exchange of labor in the Marxist tradition, and free association of producers in the anarchist tradition (so a producer can choose to not share their creation with you for whatever reason). Usage of GenAI (as it exists today) is incompatible with both.