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I think the Burnt Pancake counter gain should be on start stage instead of start turn. You could still combo with Hidden Lever. Even without the single use/exhaust interaction, it feels too strong for a single item. I usually pretend it doesn’t exist.
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Cezvee can be pretty strong on priest and such on the first turn. Nerfing to -12 would still be strong. I think this is fairly independent of ascensions, using coffee later on to get more turns vs the fatigue ascension feels like it has little impact. Pretending it doesn’t exist on priest on full ascensions doesn’t seem to add much difficulty, you have enough alternatives.
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an idea for scales is to also let them sort your draw pile.
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For Diamond Ring, another option is to buff Censor History or give it more things to combo with.
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the MP part of ice cream came into play once for me, made me avoid it bc I was using anchor. Buffing or changing it a bit seems fine. A revamp idea is to make it cause freezing instead, and restore MP based on frozen values. Then maybe the Mittens could have the general utility vs freezing enemies by persisting one frozen card per turn.
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Vampirism itself is rarely a threat. Maybe Garlic could inflict some stun or a fumble effect to whoever is gaining vampirism, slowing down sanguine pretenders would be useful. Alternatively, Garlic could mess with the undead in general instead of everything vampiric.
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Guess I always underestimated Inquisitor Seal, haven’t really used it yet. Maybe it could reduce MP whenever you draw an MP costing card, instead of the negative sorcery.
I think the Burnt Pancake counter gain should be on start stage instead of start turn.
Yes, this is most logical fix, but I hesitated since it would be so much of a nerf. I will probably still do that, but try to “soften the blow” by adding some compensation.
I usually pretend it doesn’t exist.
Wow, that is even stronger reaction than my own. Are there other items which you feel are similarly overpowered? Long ago, Blowgun and Scythe were IMO in the same category, so I actually added first version of item counter mechanics in part to limit those items.
an idea for scales is to also let them sort your draw pile
I have already implemented different Delicate Scales buff, and I am working of Crude Scales, which will probably be total rework. My current plan is to add “self-synergies”, so these items by themselves have small benefit from sorting.
Current Delicate Scales addition is ‘Playing Precious increases equal-valued Precious on adjacent cards’, which is very minor, but at least hopefully improves this item’s chances from “never ever” to “very rarely”.
But the idea of sorting draw pile is interesting. What benefits / synergies do you see? Initiative effect on cards already does draw pile sorting, but adding secondary sorting mechanism currently feels even more niche than hand sorting.
Diamond Ring, another option is to buff Censor History or give it more things to combo with
Agreed, this is what I shall do. I have already buffed Patience card (which was also too niche before) to give defence on end turn, helping to make skipping turns move viable play for Wp-based heroes, and will add more changes / additions towards that goal.
Mittens could have the general utility vs freezing enemies by persisting one frozen card per turn.
Question is whether it should synergize with Snowflake, which is currently the “make-or-break” item for Frozen builds. If it synergizes, then this change would make Mittens into another Burnt Pancake, although admittedly much harder to achieve, so perhaps it is ok. But if it does not, it “feels bad”.
Vampirism itself is rarely a threat
I think this is the “problem” in a sense that currently vampirism on hero is good and interesting, but vampirism on enemies is insignificant and boring. I will think about this more.
that is even stronger reaction than my own.
Maybe I implied too much of a reaction, it’s just a conduct I started doing at some point. Other things I generally avoid like this right now are Lament, the pawns move + gather magic combo, and having more than 2 effective fatigue reduction on a card in the deck (e.g. fatigue rune + pray).
Are there other items which you feel are similarly overpowered?
I feel Ribcage Armor is the closest. So far I only avoid it when playing Renevant.
Next strongest would Piggy Bank and Paradoxical Figure, I guess. But those aren’t the same category.
But the idea of sorting draw pile is interesting. What benefits / synergies do you see? Initiative effect on cards already does draw pile sorting, but adding secondary sorting mechanism currently feels even more niche than hand sorting.
Well, it could reverse initiative effects. Right now I can’t think of a use case, either. But there could be some card(s) with negative initiative where this would be beneficial. A bit like heavy blow, but with initiative instead of weight.
Question is whether it should synergize with Snowflake
I’d be like a changed pancake + hidden lever combo. Except you need a source of freezing (and maybe different item rarity). If there shouldn’t be two of these combos, pancake could be changed differently. For example instead of a counter, Pancake could add (persist 1) to a most upgraded card in the draw pile on start stage.
Maybe I implied too much of a reaction,
Not at all, “very good player stops using item because it makes game too easy” is an excellent indicator of imbalance, so this feedback is exactly what I want.
Lament
This is outright bug, I forgot to add “exhausts” and effect condition. Funny thing, I played Lament a few times since then, but somehow failed to notice that actual card is different from the one I have in my mind. Fixed by adding both exhaust and “have enough piety” condition.
Now the impact of Lament is rather similar to Inquisitor Seal, as both allow to refill the resource once per battle.
pawns move + gather magic
Pawn’s Move is a tricky card. It is supposedly intended to facilitate hand manipulation, but I myself noted that I use it mostly for creative exploitation of infinite persist. In particular, weird “if effects <= 1” condition is added to avoid making too good of a chassis for card construction with Idea.
Another example is Pawn’s Move + Rewind, which completely bypasses fatigue since “return from discard” effect is not affected by it.
Perhaps just using fixed “Persist 5” would be better?
more than 2 effective fatigue reduction … e.g. fatigue rune + pray
That’s still just effective -1? Even though Pray persists, it still increases fatigue normally. Nitpicking aside, I understand the general issue. Maybe nerf Rune of Heariness to Fatigue -1 …
Ribcage Armor … avoid it when playing Renevant
Indeed, this item is custom-made for Revenant, especially on high ascension where you are limited in Lichform upgrades. However, I thought that poison, fear, and recently guilt, pose high enough risk to push this item into “powerful but prone to sudden death” category. How do you usually mitigate those when using Ribcage Armor?
Paradoxical Figure
This one is intentionally “too broken to balance, but fun to use occasionally” item, so the only thing I considered changing is to make it ever more rare in some way.
Burnt Pancake
I significantly reworked this item by changing the counter increase condition to “played card had zero effects”, same as Large Basket. This makes an item potentially even more powerful, but adds significant requirement / downside (and even some danger of forced infinite self-stalling), so now both picking and using it hopefully require some thought.
“very good player stops using item because it makes game too easy” is an excellent indicator of imbalance
Well, for these conducts, there can also be other reasons like replayability, perceived fun, convenience and inching towards more difficulty. So, it’s not necessarily just because it feels too easy. But it’s still a good indicator I guess.
weird “if effects <= 1” condition is added to avoid making too good of a chassis for card construction with Idea.
This makes sense, but also breaks Pawn’s Move as soon as you have an item with a trigger “on card playing” or “on any trigger”.
Perhaps just using fixed “Persist 5” would be better?
Yes, it’d be less tedious to use pawns move+gather magic, and for mage it’s also a powerful and common combo, so this nerf should be fine.
You could also add “cards played -1” and “weight -1” to make it not combo, but more viable to pick up for hand manipulation. Pause and other persistent cards already do these combos enough.
more than 2 effective fatigue reduction … e.g. fatigue rune + pray
That’s still just effective -1?
True, that description was misleading. Practically, heartiness+pray would be -2 fatigue times 4 uses plus 3 extra fatigue for playing it more often, so it’s effective fatigue effect is -5, same as Rally with three upgrades.
So with “effective” I don’t mean including the fatigue cost of playing the card, but including what persistence does in normal circumstances. It’s the effective fatigue reduction effect* that’s capped at 2, so Rally+ is too much.
I understand the general issue. Maybe nerf Rune of Heariness to Fatigue -1 …
I just used it a lot when playing priest, and maybe builds that approach infinite fatigue reduction/draw just feel kinda tedious to play in the long run. But I guess in terms of power and frequency, stuff like pray+heartiness is comparable to pawns move+gather magic, so nerfing it should be ok.
How do you usually mitigate those when using Ribcage Armor?
Draining Touch still heals you, so Renevant has usually not much downsides to using Ribcage Armor. I think it mostly prevents “heal” effects and positive vitality from healing, while vampirism and gaining hp as a non-specific resource still works.
reworked this item by changing the counter increase condition to “played card had zero effects”, same as Large Basket
This sounds like an interesting idea. So far I still haven’t confirmed for myself in what cases exactly a card plays zero effects. I guess frozen counts as an effect, as well as “on card playing”/“any trigger” item tiggers, but unmet conditionals like in sigils don’t.