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(-5)

If I was MDN, I'd simply not release an update just to spite people like you. Matter of fact, I imagine that's something that's been a factor in the production of the game itself because of how pervasive and frequent that sort of idea is.

I've been interested in making games for a long time, and man, that exact mentality is what I am afraid of if I were to get into game development, because people with your same type of 'stan' mentality for things always poison EVERYTHING you find an interest in. Log off, take some time away from this game's forums, and think about something else, because if it's affecting you so significantly that you're willing to express this opinion about someone who makes the content that you enjoy, you've gotta be unbearable to talk to as a human being. I'm not just saying this to get some "sick dunks", either - take time away from the internet to do ANYTHING else. If there was a messaging feature on Itch.io, I'd rather just send this to you privately because that mentality is enough of an issue that I can say with 100% certainty that that is directly impacting you in other corners of your life that you aren't seeing, and it makes me legitimately think you ACTUALLY need someone to just come out and say it explicitly. Frankly, if this comment actually pisses you off to any degree, it's a good thing for you - maybe it'll be something that leads to you actually getting better in some regard.

I say all of this because I've had the exact same mentality you do - and thankfully, I eventually got better, but not before I got a lot worse. Hopefully saying this will kinda shame you into being a better person, because damn, that's one HELL of a thing to think, letalone express in any kind of public setting like this. 

Just 'cause you can have an opinion doesn't mean it's a good one.

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Criticizing something is the greatest form of support, an expression of a genuine wish for someone or something to be better, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered engaging in the first place. Thank you too for reminding me that I'm politically unable to touch grass at the current moment and can't do much else other than expressing opinions online. That's all I'm going to say.

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No, you are very clearly not interested in giving any kind of "support" to the dev. Your post was incredibly insulting. You could've said something like, "Man, I really wish the devs of this game would engage with their community more often. I really enjoy the game, but I find it frustrating that there's so little interaction," but you didn't. If I was a dev, I'd actually take something like what I suggested to heart and try to work on communicating with my fans better in future updates. However, just reading your comment would lead to me simply noting you as someone toxic in the community and continue to not engage with it because of how incredibly hostile it comes off as.

What it sounds like to me what you're saying with your unnecessary addition is "I can't do anything other than talk shit about the devs of the games I enjoy!" But the thing is that if you can "express opinions online", you can find plenty of other things to do. Develop a game yourself, maybe it'll help you find a hobby outside of making lackluster comments on the internet. Read some books, there's free PDFs out there. Watch some movies and/or videos, there's plenty of stuff on Youtube. Go onto Wikipedia, read some articles, or go on the Internet Archive, there's movies, music, books, and plenty of other things they're hosting. To put it simply, there's literally an ENTIRE INTERNET of possibilities at your fingertips. Do something other than "expressing opinions" online. Again, just cause you have an opinion doesn't mean it's a good one, especially if you're posting whiney screeds like "the dev of this game that I like need to do this specific thing!" that really don't amount to much more than crying about "community engagement".

On top of that, as I understand it, part of the reason the updates are kept behind the Discord is because the dev is attempting to limit their and their team's exposure to toxicity (which certainly seems like a smart idea to me), and that the team might want to keep the community from getting a constant flood of updates. Unfortunately for them, people like you are going to screech and cry about whatever it is they do. If they don't post, then people will say "post more!" but if they post more, then people will say "These aren't important updates, post less!" and if they post less, then people will go back to whining about them not posting enough, or whine about some other thing because it's not enough to have updates for a game, it's always got to be "the best" when it comes to community engagement, even if the people running the game don't want to have any kind of engagement with the community at all. 

On that topic, you do know that the team making this game is there to make the game and not necessarily there for interacting with the community, right? Like a dev team that interacts with their community is not only rare, but it is also something that costs time (and likely even money) that they could just put towards making the game. So if they did what you're asking for, it'd just take that much time away from the game. But I guess the community is more important than the actual game that this entire discussion is revolving around - or, at least to you. To the dev team, apparently "the game is more important"! :O How unexpected of a game development team! To develop games! Imagine it! Who could conceive of such a bizarre and unheard-of concept!

Again, I'd suggest that you take a step back from the game and everything connected to it and come back in a month or two when you're a bit more chill. I'm not criticizing you because you're complaining, I'm criticizing you because your comment was written like you have a parasocial relationship to the development of this game. I imagine your original post would only signal to the team behind VotV that they should continue to not engage with the community until it as a whole is less hostile towards the people working on the game. But if you're going to just double-down on acting snotty towards them, silence from this team is what both you and the more toxic parts of the VotV community deserve. But whatever, keep biting the hand that feeds. I'm sure you've got SO much to show for it.

Here's a rhetorical question for you; does engaging with the VotV community in the manner that you are currently make you happy? If not, then why wouldn't you just simply do something that does make you happy? Don't bother answering either of these questions because they're both rhetorical and I don't actually care about your answers, the point I'm getting at is that you should do literally anything else. I am presuming you have eyes, ears, and a brain. I'm pleading with you to use them somewhere - ANYWHERE - else, for your own sake.

Or don't, either I just ran several circles around you and you gave up or I get to keep running circles until I get bored, it's a win/win for me.

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rereading this thread a hundred times to try and figure out what they said that got you SO upset. All they said is that they want the communication to be a little more clear and that being forced to use discord sucks, which it does and I'm saying that as someone who has used it since 2017 lol.  I've also been looking for more info on 0.9 since it's supposedly coming out soon and I really dont care to join a whole server I'll never interact with just to learn something that could be a blogpost. i really dont understand why youre white knighting so hard. youre being more toxic than friskyfennc ever was 

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the real horror was the comments we read along the way

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for serious

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Nah, they really didn't, though. Being rude in an online and a public community like this is something that I think needs to be tampered down on, and frankly, I'm more than happy to help with it, whether or not it's necessary from anyone else's perspective. I am, as you put it, "upset" because I want people to talk online to others the way they would in the real world. I feel that their original comment is not something that should be said to another human being nor a group of people putting effort into making something that I clearly care a lot about if I'm this willing to talk for this long and interested in spending so much time in forum discussions. Thus, here I am.

I'm not disagreeing that Discord sucks - it does. I'm also not disagreeing that the VotV team could do better with their communication skills - their skills could be better, but as I've attempted to hint at several times (and stated explicitly now) now, I'm kind of frustrated with toxicity in online spaces. I am approaching each scenario with what I feel to be the correct amount of "aggression" (as you might put it) that I think is necessary for the context. I'm sure I could be better with something or other, same as with the VotV team and the team behind Discord, but we're all doing our best with the skills we have, so please forgive me if I come off in a bad light for whatever reason. (Edit: I've been using Discord since 2016 - what does that have to do with anything, though? Even if I had no experience with it until just right now, I could still tell you that it sucks as a platform. Why does the age of one's account on it matter in the slightest to the current conversation at hand?) 

Also, what does white knighting mean, in your mind? Because I have been and am still currently willing to criticize MDN and the VotV team, I'm just not going to let toxicity exist without calling it such. If I was white knighting, I imagine that I'd be a lot more permissive of flaws and inconsistent with my points, but I'm not and haven't been, so I don't know why you're using the term when it's not applicable. If anything, it certainly sounds like you're doing a little bit of white knighting yourself, based on my definition - I've already addressed several of your points in at least one of my previous responses to friskyfennec, which you should know, since you apparently already read them.

It also does not escape me that you didn't really bother to respond to any of the points that I've made, almost like you're not interested in actually having a discussion on the initial topics mentioned, or you just didn't fully grasp any of the points I've been getting at if you even did read everything.

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Simply put: Available time > nonsense!
The facts are:

The game is there for everyone.

Support if you want.
Join the Discord if you want.
They DO NOT have good communication on Itch.io.
Their Discord is ridiculously polluted with completely out-of-context topics or "deep down" lore in an unrealistic story presented in a childish way, designed for 12-14 year olds who like waifus and anime.
The 0.9 test version is already available.

They are very attentive to reported bugs and, even with SEVERAL broken issues in the "bug report," they are still releasing fixes.

So: Enjoy what you like and like it if you want, but the fact is that Discord is necessary for more information.

And if "someone" think that discussions on the internet should always be civil, you are naive, a troll, or have nothing better to do.

Happy Halloween!

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I'm sure glad that last part isn't responding to what I was saying, as it would be a fairly gross mischaracterization of what I was at least attempting to get at, regardless of whether or not I stated it well enough.