Post by Julian H in Consume Me comments

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I really wanted to enjoy this but the religious themes really ruined my experience... I understand it's autobiographical, but I grew up as an atheist jew in a small, conservative christian town, so my experience with religion is very negative - I've known people who I thought were friends turn out to be hateful, both directly and indirectly, because of their church. So it was really uncomfortable for me when this game suddenly pivoted in that direction, with an unskippable song that's basically christian propaganda. It's especially concerning since the game has a content warning, and is otherwise very good about treating heavy topics with sensitivity, but nothing was mentioned about this. It really hit me hard and left me with feelings I don't think the game intended for. Please add a content warning for it, I know there are people with much worse experiences than me that might react more strongly.

It sucks because I liked everything else about the game, and had been looking forward to it since seeing it at IGF. And despite my issues, I wish the best for the devs, since it's clear a lot of work was put into this and I did enjoy the other parts of the game.

morio_dormido35 days ago(+6)(-1)

i would recommend you to keep pushing through it. Religion is treated the same way as every other topic in this game. That is not telling you explicitly: "this is bad" in the moment of doing it, but it lets you see its consecuences. If the topic is very triggering to you is understandable, but i think it is worth giving it a try

offeredcup34 days ago(+6)(-33)

I loved the Christian theme. Itch.io needs more of it, there is too much atheist and satanist games. Also, Jesus loves you dude.

People may treat each other badly, but His biggest commandment from the Bible is from the gospel of Matthew, the first gospel, when a pharisee (פְּרוּשִׁים) asked "Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?" He said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. ' This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

So, the problem isn't Christianity, its people distorting Christianity. Because Jesus only talked about love and how to serve God and be a good neighbor. So, I would argue that, if you agree with me in this point, you should be supporting more games that show the correct teachings of the Bible.

Susel27 days ago(+7)(-1)

If someone puts an emphasis on religion in a game, they should expect that someone will be offended. Jesus himself is not to blame, of course. But I also have a very unpleasant experience with Christians. Christianity is not just about treating your neighbors well; it's about having a monopoly on morality and truth. All the Christians I've shared my worldview with have called me bad just because I'm an atheist.

offeredcup27 days ago (7 edits) (+1)(-7)

If you read this, please, don't imagine me with a frown, I really took time to think and awnser with tenderness :p

I think it's important to separate imperfect christian humans from Christ Himself, kinda like you did, but not really. Christianity doesn’t seek a “monopoly on morality,” but rather points to an objetive moral truth that exists beyond any individual or culture, God is Truth. That's not a monopoly, like a company of cakes trying to kill/buy all the other companies of cake, but rather just natural hierarchy. If there is a "god", and you can think of a more perfect "god", the last one is God. If you can think of a bigger "god", that is God. The same goes for truth, love, etc. God is at the end of infinity, and somehow, also at the start, all Glory and all Humility. When a Christian talks about truth or morality, it’s not to control others, but to witness to what we believe comes from God - who is Truth itself, Love itself, Law itself. And sometimes some of us can be harsh.

But sometimes yes, you should expect to be called evil, if the person you are talking to have a worldview that has very clear notions of good and evil, and your view, for one reason or the other, aligns with the evil category, or relativizes truth/moral for that person, that person will call you evil (with politeness or not unfortunately). But disagreement isn't the same as condemnation. We also believe that wrongs can be forgiven, and genuine faith should always be lived with charity and humility. God hates sin, not the sinner.

And thinking of God's infinite mercy, pope Francis said one time "What I am going to say is not a dogma of faith but my own personal view: I like to think of hell as empty; I hope it is". And I, hope that you maybe understand christians a little better, I don't expect to make you love us, but I hope I helped you understand us.

Susel27 days ago(+1)(-2)

Thank you for your response. I can see that you have good intentions and are looking at Christianity from a better perspective. When a Christian speaks about truth and love, it is Jesus, the Father, and that is it. For a Christian, anyone who sees truth, love, and God as anything other than Jesus and the Father is clearly mistaken. John 14:6 “... I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” The Bible does not say that everyone has the right to search for the truth and believe in God in their own way and not be judged. Mark 16:16 "Everyone who believes and is baptized will be saved, but everyone who does not believe will be condemned."

offeredcup26 days ago (6 edits) (+1)(-4)

I'm having a good time discussing this, I don't have much to on the computer usually!

The Father, and Jesus, and The Holy Spirit actually, but yeah. You are right, Jesus is the Truth, but you have free will to disagree. If someones says otherwise, they are just not compassionate enough. But see, recognizing your God given right to search for Him or not, does not make your findings right. My argument about truth, love and God presupposes that an ultimate Truth, Love and God exists, if there is an hierarchy, there is a "top" of the hierarchy. Imagine that the universe is a zoo (lol, bare with me) and the faster animal is the "god" of that zoo, and I say "the monkey is the fastest animal here, he is the god of the zoo", and we see a puma running way way faster, which one is the "god of the zoo"? The puma, right? The same goes in reality, there is an ultimate Truth, Love, Goodness, etc, that's God. Now, how can we say that's Jesus? Well, that's a very long topic, but in short, if I had just 30 seconds to decide, I would personally go with the guy that has more than 25.000 ancient historical documents proving his existence (is easier to say that Jesus existed than Gengis Khan!), and the guy that had his disciples willing to die for Him, even way after He wasn't around anymore, and the only guy that said that He is truly God and a loving God nonetheless.

And yes, Baptism is important to salvation, but the Catholic faith (the Church founded by Christ) says in the Catechism (good source to questions, if you want to study about) that people that never heard of Jesus and ignore Him have no "guilt", but those who know Him and choose to ignore Him, have it. In the passage you quoted we can see that, the full context is "[But] later, as the eleven were at table, he appeared to them and rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart because they had not believed those who saw Him after he had been raised (meaning that the disciples didn't believe the women that first saw Jesus after He resurrected) . He said to them, “Go into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to every creature. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned."

So, you can only be judged by those metrics if you heard the good news of salvation, but by hardness of heart does not believe. Like the 11 disciples didn't believe the women. And baptism is a way of showing that you believe and understand. And all this "ritual" of baptism, is still a human way to understand and be close to God, a way He gave us, with our human minds. Because at the end, only He will decide if someone goes to hell or not, but in His wiseness, He gave us blueprints to make His decision easier and help us get to Heaven, we call those blueprints sacraments. His mercy is infinite, but we have to want it. Also, our free will it's not the only variable, Eva and Adam choose freely eat the apple at the garden, but Satan influenced them. You may search for God, but Satan can try to influence you. Heck, even Jesus was tempted by Satan in the desert (including to attempt suicid*).

Lastly, this discussion reminded me of the Creation of Adam paiting. God's finger is fully stretched out. But is Adam's finger is retracted, hesitant, is Adam's choice to reach, and that's ok, God understands that. God is so good that if you don't want to be close to Him, who is goodness itself, you don't need to be at all, but you should understand what that entails. Here on Earth, we can still go make friends with Him, but the decisions in the afterlife are eternal.

Susel26 days ago(+3)(-1)

That's what I'm talking about. The monopoly on truth. Christians are convinced that there's no good reason not to believe in their God. It's either pride or blindness. I'm not arguing about whether Jesus existed. And there's no 25,000 evidence, not even close. I've heard that number many times, and it's made up. I am convinced that it is possible to be spiritually sighted and have a warm heart, and still have good reasons for not believing in Jesus as the Truth and Love, even after reading the Bible (which I have done).

It's probably not very relevant to discuss religion on itch. If you want to respond, you can write me on telegram: @anguinus

offeredcup21 days ago(+1)(-2)

I don't have much to say besides the responses before. Keep looking for the ultimate Truth and thanks for debating, Susel!

crabsThatPrintMoney19 days ago(+3)(-5)

[trigger warning: this comment discusses and makes comments on religion]

I agree that there should be a trigger warning for religion because weather you choose to blindly accept it as ruth or not, it can still be a sensitive topic. people argue over it, use it as an excuse to oppress people, and start wars over it.

I think if it just mentioned religion, or had a religious person in it, a trigger warning would not be strictly necessary, but if it make a statement about religion as a main point, that should have a trigger warning, true or not.

It's not that I think there is any problem with discussing religion or other sensitive topics in games, I simply think if someone is unwilling to have that discussion, they should have the option and ability to opt out.

mossmoths11 days ago(+4)(-1)

Isn't this a bit....much lol

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