Post by K3rd0 in FS25 Riverbend Springs Multifruit comments

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I didn't see the update yesterday. So with this update I built some of the "important" factories as dairy, spinnery grain/oil mill etc... and I'm terribly sorry but it's between unplayable or just insane :( I give you exemple for each kind of problem:

PeanutPuffs: for 1 month you need 36.000 liters of maize + 24.000 liters of peanuts (peanutpuffs but more maize flour in the recipe ?) + 1000 liters paper to make 12.000 liters of peanutpuff. 60.000 liters of food become 12.000, fire your engineer ^^. in money it means 23.400 of maize + 4800 peanuts + 5700 paper = 33900. Your 12.000 peanuts puff will be sold 28200, so you need between, 2 and 3 Ha of field to produce enough to lose money at the end. for 1 month, you need about 24 Ha of maize for 1 year of this recipe. Maybe in multi ?

Pie: the other side for this one. The recipe shows that with only 12 liters of flour + 10 fruits + 5 sugar (27 liters) we can obtain... 55 liters of pie. In the same way Soucream with buffalo milk is 3 milks for 75 creams ! I didn't calculate, we can't believe the recipes so it's certainly not balanced in the end.

When I told you about fibers in the spinnery I said that the 24 for 1 ratio was too heavy but you increased it to 64. So now to make flax fabric you need only.... 768.000 liters of fibers. Other spinnery recipes aren't better, 237.000 liter/month for ropes and you'll earn 1.477 million. You transformed a 7 pallets/month of rope from the vanilla game to 164 at 9000€/pallet. It can't work.

192 cycles/month * 40 liters rope = 7680 became

432 * 380 = 164160

A funny one to finish, the cheese roulade: 4 flours + 3 yeast (so much ? 0.3 maybe ?) + 30 cheese (you want some flour in your cheese ? :D ) and 2 sugars for.... only 8 roulades. Probably big mice in the bakery ^^

So, most of the prods are unbalanced in a way or the other (few exceptions of course, I saw some credible recipes, only a quick ckeck) and then make some of the new fruits hard to transform. And IMO you should remove water from your prod lines (not beer of course ^^). 1st because water is boring enough in greenhouses (probably most of the people use a water distribution mod) and because when i see 200 melon + 300 water for melon juice it makes me crazy, more when i see no water at all in the recipes of......soup ! So you should not make it too heavy, water doesn't bring gameplay, nobody will regret water I guess.

Sorry for the "bad report" but if you want a balanced production mod there is still work on it.

Jinkou8967 days ago

At cheese roulade I think it should have benn 3 cheese not 30.

If you have time and good will, please modify them to be profitable, but credible (directly on Riverbend files), then send me the xmls...

Sorry to bother you.

K3rd066 days ago

The thing to know is what YOU want for YOUR production mod. Profitable, that's the base, but credible depends of your vision of course. Most of the prods mod we can see are usually broken/cheated as hell. Not enough expensive building, gigantic values in recipes, stupid price/pallet etc... Giants is clearly not known for it's "realistic world", that's why factories cost the price of a house, produce so less pallets/month and products prices are not credible for most. But they try (i said TRY ^^) to make a balance, you can see that the result/Ha with grains is the same whatever you plant. So vanilla game has a sort of balance even if it's not always easy to see it and you have the choice to stay not too far from it (with a bonus, we're human :D ) or doing like so many other modders where it would be easier to just add 10M with powertool/easydev and play to something else if the goal is only money

I give you 2 exemples to show you between Giants and Jinkou balance

Dairy

Vanilla 210.000€

butter 15l milk = 13l butter * 480/month 7200l = 6240l money: 5040€ = 6988€ (+1948 "+39%") Paid building in 2.5 year

Jinkou 250.000€

butter 15l milk = 28l butter * 480/month 7200l = 13440l money: 5040 €= 15052€ (+10012 "+200%")paid building in 2 years

Building price is a bit higher (fair), same input and cycles/month but more than twice the output and five times the financial outcome.

oil mill

Vanilla 240.000

canola oil 20l canola = 10loil * 480/month 9600l = 4800l money 5788€ = 7872€ (+ 2084 "+36%)

9600 liters colza means 1.65 Ha (without any bonus, or 0.8 Ha at 100%)for 1month prod, close to 20 Ha for a year.

Jinkou 240.000

canola oil 20l canola = 10l oil * 960/month 19200 = 9600 money: 11576€= 15744€ (+ 4168 "+36%")

Only the cycles are double so it seems balanced but no. Double cycles mean double input then double field size.

Your recipe involved between 3.3 and 1.6 Ha/month (basic values and 100% worked) or 40 and 20 Ha of canola to produce all the year. Who will do that in sigle player ? And don't forget that 1Ha cost 60.000€

And at the end in vanilla you can earn with this recipe 94500€/year you pay the factory in 2.5 years. Half time with your 189.000€

You can see (I hope) that the cost of the building, the size of the needed fields, the global yield price are linked with income/outcome in recipes BEFORE just the price of a pallet. So now what game do you want ? A fair game where money don't drop from the sky without being totally "crazy" (you see, the "pseudo realistic" mods where you need to be farmer yourself just to understand what it is), or a very casual/easy game where you have millions on your account after 1 or 2 ingame years ?

Jinkou8966 days ago

To not scare players, I want to keep it similar to base-game "realistic" recipes. Didn't occur to me that doubling the cycles would do so much harm to this "balance". For making game enjoyable, not just work, I think paying for the building in 2 years and after making only profit is good enough...

K3rd066 days ago

Yes I was surprised too when I started to rebalance prods mods in FS22 (Imagine how it was with production revamp) and I know how hard it can be to find a fair solution when we want to add new fruits/products. For building I don't hesitate to make them paid between 14 and 24 months. Not instant money but give more fun than the fu... 2 or 3 pallets/month (less for fabric) from some vanilla prods. I try to always have something to do, not spending my time pressing "R" to sleep for months and neither playing "fenwick simulator" with pallets everywhere.

That's why I told you to have a look to the txt file with the price per liter and liters per Ha of your fruits. In example you lentils cost 10 times you onions BUT you harvest 25 times more onions than lentils. Finally in 1 HA field you can make 8600€ with onions and only 2540 with lentils (in direct sale). Of course it possible to re-balance that with production but do you really want to have only 2000 liters/Ha of lentils ? Drypeas and millet seems a bit weak too. Look at it, tell me if you want to keep as it is or make changes and it will give the base to rebalance the prods.

I saw you're planning to edit the european map, did you try this one ? Not european at all but gorgeous, totally alive (sounds of birds, wild animals, water when we drive/work) only sawmill present so let you free to create production sites.

Jinkou8965 days ago

For that map, would have to ask the map maker. As for the crops, I think prices might be off for some of them, but the quantities should be ok, because I used similar crops base-game values. But if you think some crop gives too much or too less, you can balance that too. I was never good at math and that's why I never realised what discrepancies are there in my productions...

K3rd065 days ago

This map really worth it, just rent a vehicle, go to south and enjoy the trip.

I was finishing to transform a building when I realized I have some more FS22 pallets you could use as they are great to see (not just box then) and I know you like it. There are 2 pallets for textile prod with flax/hemp clothes and fabric, 2 others for bakery with apple pie and melon (or whatever you want) pie. I added the melon pallet which comes with the pie and is different from your.

I think I could find the names of the modders if you need. For fabric it's easy to have 2 pallets differents in just removing the hemp leaf tag to have a "lin fabric", I just put one pallet for the pic. So If you want to use I can send you files.

If you ask, the building behind is this one I transformed in bunkersilo + object storage + shelter in one with the bunker underground level (inverse from the vanilla mod). That's not a production point but if you want to try for your personal game i'll zip it with other files..

As it's now finished I should have time to start to work on your dairy and giving you an exemple of rebalance file to see if you're ok with that.

Jinkou8965 days ago

the pie pallets definetely look amazing. but please tell me the modder, maybe I can get in touch with him/her. the material can be used as twine (not bale twine of course), as a new product.

I am confident that your rebalancing would be better than what I have now. Just keep the ingredients (remember that some have converters, so if I used only one and could be used another too, see if it is converted before adding it, because it might cause problems, but probably the ingredient lists are ok, just the quantity)

K3rd064 days ago

I replied but message is blocked for "moderation". Do you have an access on it ?

Jinkou8964 days ago

Have no idea. I don't have restrictions on comments.

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Jinkou8965 days ago

In another matter, tried crossover to run the needed Giants programs and won't work (or materialize for that matter). Tried to install a pirated version of Parallels (I know I can use trial, but if it had worked I would wanted it, but can't afford their subscription) but unfortunatelly I couldn't opened it after "activating" it. So my best solution is to borrow a laptop/pc to make the bulk textures (materialize, gimp and after texture tool), convert the fruits.gdm from Zielonka and expanding it. The rest I can do on macos.

K3rd064 days ago

Did you try VMware Fusion ? And when GE ask for the game path i'm not sure we need to have the game really installed/running , maybe just the folders and the .exe is enough for it so no need many ressources in the VM.

Jinkou8964 days ago

Now I just installed fusion. Forgot they released a working version for new macs. I don't think GE works without the gmae, but anyway, for what I do, I don't really need it.

itch.io

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