Post by Ho88it in Fighting against cowardace. The removal of No Mercy as pressured by an ANTI LGBT group. - itch.io

Viewing post in Fighting against cowardace. The removal of No Mercy as pressured by an ANTI LGBT group.

↑ View parent post

Ho88it8 days ago(+2)

Disagree. By playing a rape/sexual assault fantasy game (or, in other words, fantasizing committing about rape/sexual assault), you cause the desire within yourself for rape/violent sex/sexual abuse to grow. Just like with an addiction. No one wakes up an addict. It happens like this:

Someone has an unhealthy desire.
They indulge it.
The desire grows stronger.
The way they indulged it before no longer satisfies.
So they indulge it in a more extreme, focused way.
Repeat.

It may be that not everyone who plays SA fantasy games like this will follow through and really do it. But do you seriously believe that someone who fantasizes about sexual assault (and is aroused by it) is less likely to actually do it than someone who doesn't???

Eris C.8 days ago

Do you stay horny after you orgasm?

Do people seek something harder for their tobacco addiction?

Most people who play these games are not sexual predators... the sexual predators will not play these games. The sexual predators will instead do the real thing; where for those who play these games it is just a fantasy... Sexual Predators are not always the kind of people who are depicted in these games; instead they go to a bar and rufie a woman's drink and bring her home. It isn't something done in the alleyway as often anymore... that is too risky... unless in a really large town like New York City... Most of the time they do it with out any means of getting caught. What was Jack the Ripper known for?

Would you steal in front of a cashier? I don't think you would... it is general knowledge that Sexual Predators are the first to be beat up in prison. So SA is not something they would do whimsically.

Rape occurred long before video games... to pit blame on a video game is as absurd as claiming video games are causing school shootings or making kids gay. (School Shootings happened before First Person Shooters were popular, and there were gay people since the start of human history.)

It isn't the video game's fault; just as it isn't the gun's fault. It is the person who uses them; and their intent behind it. Wouldn't you agree?

Ho88it8 days ago (1 edit)

What do you mean, "sexual predators will not play these games"? Why wouldn't they?

Tobacco addiction still fits my illustration. There are many pack-a-day type people. But they don't start like that. They start small and need more and more until they are pack-a-day types. Some may stop before they reach a pack a day. But they are still far closer to that than someone who never starts. And they still suffer many other negative effects from their use of tobacco that those who never started don't have. Additionally, tobacco is not fulfilling a perverted, evil desire the way sexual assault is. With sexual assault, the end result is far worse.

I'm not blaming rape or sexual assault on the video game. But first person shooters -> school shootings is not an apples-to-apples comparison. Most of them are in the context of war, which is different from school shootings. I would condemn a "School Shooting Simulator" game on similar grounds that I would condemn this game on. If a game contains purposeless, realistic violence, and the sole point of the game is to revel in that violence, I would say that raises red flags.

The idea that what you do for entertainment doesn't affect the rest of your life outside of that entertainment is just laughable. Pay attention to your own life, and you will see that it is true. Playing a game like this can contribute to the perverted desires that negatively affect everyone who has them, and can drive some to do terrible things. Meanwhile, what's the upside? It is fair for a platform to decide to remove porn (which is not speech) that negatively affects everyone and benefits no one. As someone who has use this platform for years, I support that decision 100%.

I think that the best option would be to refrain from committing sexual assault AND to refrain from fantasizing about it?

And if I were running a platform, I would be absolutely justified in removing content that promotes such things.

Deleted post8 days ago

Deleted 8 days ago

redonihunter8 days ago(+2)

Do you believe that someone who plays a rape fantasy game is less likely to commit sexual assault than a person who doesn't?

I do not believe the typical person that commits sexual assault is a typical video game player to begin with. But as it is with any crime and popular hobbies you will find an overlap. But cause and effect do not even go into that overlap. Video games are no longer only for nerds.

You are engaging in the same faulty arguments that are around for decades to bash video games and the people who play them.

By playing a rape/sexual assault fantasy game (or, in other words, fantasizing committing about rape/sexual assault)

This is a fallacy.

So you accuse me of fantasizing of being a real life mass murderer when I play some first person shooter or basically any role playing game where you collect experience by killing?! Because that is what your logic boils down to. You assert that people who play such games fantasize about doing those things in real life. And from this premise you construct your argument how bad those games are. It is fallacious. Your premise is wrong.

If you want to argue soundly, try finding statistics that would link a rise in certain crimes with the popularity of certain games. But even if there is a link, the question is, what is cause and what is effect. A high unemployment rate can be cause for both - people having time to play games and people doing bad things.

Since a crime like sexual assault was done long before games and is still done in areas not known for their video game culture or freely available adult games, it is highly doubtable that there is a causal connection.

There is of course a cultural bias, but Japan is infamous for their adult games including questionable topics. And what do the statistics say about them? They have one of the lowest sa statistics worldwide. Some people even argue the opposite cause and effect and claim that this fantasy outlet reduces such crimes.

My stance is, that people can distinguish between fiction and reality. It is one of the first things we learn as infants. Pretend play. And they engage in fiction for entertainment, and not to fantasize about doing that fiction thing in real life.

Ho88it8 days ago (1 edit)

First of all, this idea from gamers that what you do for entertainment has no effect on the rest of your life is just not true. I've heard this before, about how people bash gamers for playing violent video games, and how it is essentially bs. But it is simply incontrovertible that something you spend multiple hours doing every day affects the way you think and see the world. How could it not? A person who fantasizes about raping their stepmother, or is entertained by the idea of doing so, is absolutely feeding a desire that will grow and create destruction in their life.

I do not accuse you of "fantasizing of being a real life mass murderer" when you play FPS games. I certainly hope you don't do that. As I mentioned in another reply, FPS shooters to mass-murderer is not really an apples-to-apples comparison. A better comparison would be a game where players perpetrate a school shooting or something like that. I would say a game that is based around purposeless, realistic violence, where the point is to just revel in the act of inflicting harm on other people is bad. A platform like this, would be justified in removing such a game. It is for similar reasons that I feel they were justified in removing this one.

I'm really not interested in playing the statistics game. The lack of some "statistic" linking a game where you sexually assault your stepmom to real-life sexual assaults really doesn't prove anything. You can find a statistic to support almost any claim in the world if you look hard enough, even nonsensical ones. There are many other factors that contribute to SA that could easily conceal the effect of one video game. But that does not mean the effect is not there.

By playing a game where you do something like this, you subconsciously normalize such things in your mind, and in a way, glorify them. And I cannot condone normalizing or glorifying sexual assault.

In your last paragraph, you said that people engage in fiction for entertainment. The fiction we are talking about here is sexually assaulting your stepmom. If anyone finds that entertaining, I would say that is pretty messed up and that they should stop entertaining themselves in that way.

Summary

What you do for entertainment has an effect on the way you look at the world. That includes video games. A video game where you commit SA is included in that. The effect such a game has is bad, as it leads to the normalization and glorification of SA. If SA is normalized and glorified in someone's mind, they are more likely (not guaranteed, just more likely), to view it as not a big deal and be dismissive of it. Therefore, it is a bad idea to play a game like that. And knowing that, a platform like this can and should refuse to list it for sale.

Antigone_Black5 days ago(+1)

you used CHAT GPT to think for you with that summary with no evidence.

on your feelings.

in fact. the peopel that have such fantasies are on p hub and NO ONE IS HARMED. the more accessablity the more violent crime has gone down.

The people who speak out against such games and actually surpress. have the worst track record.

your disagreement to the contrary comes with no evidence. such convictions... should have you seen as dangerous. VERY dangerous.

Ho88it4 days ago

No, I wrote that summary myself.

It's pretty scummy to baselessly suggest that I might be a child molester, or to compare me to one. But I would expect nothing less from someone who made an account on this site just to complain about some SA virtual porn being removed.

Antigone_Black5 days ago(+1)

"First of all, this idea from gamers that what you do for entertainment has no effect on the rest of your life is just not true. I've heard this before, about how people bash gamers for playing violent video games, and how it is essentially bs. But it is simply incontrovertible that something you spend multiple hours doing every day affects the way you think and see the world. How could it not?"

Well if it doesn't work for violence how does it work for sexual violence?

" As I mentioned in another reply, FPS shooters to mass-murderer is not really an apples-to-apples comparison. " they're both violence. it really is that.
It is dishonest and slimy to say otherwise.

"or is entertained by the idea of doing so, is absolutely feeding a desire that will grow and create destruction in their life."

that's the same thing said about violence in video games that has since been disproven. the verytthing you call BS.
"I'm really not interested in playing the statistics game. "
you're not interested in any evidence.

you should not play games. at all. you aren't even fully capable.

who gets to decide? who is good enough? you just want to decide for others or think there's someone good enough who can. but wouldn't that person become the most debauched? how are you or anyone able to even tell what or where these problematic things are?

"The effect such a game has is bad, as it leads to the normalization and glorification of SA. " how?

where? there are games that glorify and gamify violence that YOU enjoy if we take a look at what you buy and consume.

that summary has nothing but an emotional plea and an argument for control out of "concern" over unfounded things. you make bold cliams with no proof.

are you even human? how many women have YOU hurt?

Ho88it4 days ago

I have hurt no women. How many have you hurt, Antigone_Black? And what do you mean by "are you even human?"

"Well if it doesn't work for violence how does it work for sexual violence?"

It does work for violence. If you spend hours a day pretending to engage in violence, that will affect the way you think and see the world. And it will normalize violence in your mind, which may cause you to be more prone to violent reactions.

"they're both violence. it really is that.
It is dishonest and slimy to say otherwise. "

We can distinguish between different types of violence. Your suggestion that we can't is asinine.

"that's the same thing said about violence in video games that has since been disproven."

Disproven? I haven't seen it disproven. And I have researched this.

"you're not interested in any evidence."

As I said in the full reply, you can find a statistic to support any claim you want. By all means, go google some studies that support your point. Then I will go do the same thing for my point, and we will go round and round the circle forever, and never get anywhere.

"where? there are games that glorify and gamify violence that YOU enjoy if we take a look at what you buy and consume."

No, I don't play games that glorify purposeless, realistic violence for its own sake. Just like I don't play games that glorify SA.

Finally, my summary was anything but emotional. I clearly drew the connection between using SA material for entertainment, and how that leads to SA being considered normal and acceptable. I then stated that because of that, people should not play the game, and that itchio was justified in removing it. These are not bold claims, they are claims backed up by common sense and reason.

I have been charitable in answering you, but you have not been so with me. you have baselessly compared me to a child molester and implied that I am a sexual abuser. Why so much aggression? You are acting shamefully.

redonihunter5 days ago(+1)

First of all, this idea from gamers that what you do for entertainment has no effect on the rest of your life is just not true.

What you do for entertainment has of course influence. This is not in dispute - not from me. But you do not bring any evidence that entertainment x brings about bad thing y. Search out studies, bring forth evidence. Make your arguments sound. Convince me. You can do that with sound arguments! You will achieve the opposite with unsound arguments.

What you brought was essentially wishfull thinking. You assert that playing x is bad because whatever your chain of logic was. There is another chain of logic that playing x would suppress any urges to try out x in real life, which would make games about x a good thing, would it not. You did not disprove that. I actually looked at some statistics, and the orders of magnitude between Japan and "the West" ist about 2 : 40. Let's round that down to x10 because of cultural bias. So, a place where games with such questionable content are more available has a ten times lower rate of crimes like SA. I take that as a strong hint, that your chain of logic is what I said: wishfull thinking. You think it works out that way. But it does not and might even work the complete opposite way: someone seeing/playing/reading a thing in fiction realizes that they could never ever do that thing in real life. But they still might enjoy the story or artworks or gameplay, just as we like to watch horror movies and play horror games.

Now, I am not convinced that it does work this way, but data and my own decades long experience in video games hint at it, and I want a lot better evidence than your assertions to contemplate restricting adult entertainment that consists of made up things and pixels. I have no right to restrict another person's choice of entertainment. Even if I am appaled or disgusted by it. Even if it depicts fictional things that are illegal in real life.

A person who fantasizes about raping their stepmother, or is entertained by the idea of doing so, is absolutely feeding a desire that will grow and create destruction in their life.

There is a break in logic here. You start at the point where you already have someone contemplating actual crime. You beg the question. You also equate being entertained to fantasizing about the thing. And that is why I accused you of accusing me of fantasiszing about mass murder! You assert a psychological mechanism and you assert a motivation. There is no reason to believe these things would only work for adult games.

Oh, and you also assert what feeding the desire with fiction would do. Convince me with data and not with assertions. This mechanism has been debunked for decades, which is why I am fed up with the blame-the-games-rhetoric. There is no need for video games to make people do crimes. But they are a ready scapegoat to blame. Music got the same treatement when video games were not a thing. It is the same again and again.

where the point is to just revel in the act of inflicting harm on other people is bad

... but it is not other people. You just assert that those people fantasize about doing things for real. You do not know what their motivation is. I assure you, a game without any gameplay will get boring quickly and the novelty factor of seeing realistic graphics wears off quickly. You need things like story and gameplay. What fades less quickly is the annoyance if you see signs of censorship in the game you are playing. Someone trying to impose their agenda on your entertainment. Kinda like the beeps in some audio tracks.

There do be people inflicting harm on actual people in games. But that is another topic entirely. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer

The effect such a game has is bad, as it leads to the normalization and glorification

You phrase this like an argument, but this is a claim. You did not substanciate this claim beyond offering your psychological mechanisms, which have been debunked decades ago. You make a step from fiction to reality. But you did not explain that step. You just assert that it happens.

Do not blame video games. Do not blame fiction. There is no easy excuses or scapegoats for what some humans do. And I am glad about anyone being able to blow off steam by playing a fictional game. In ancient Rome people would watch real people get killed in arena games. I think entertainment has bettered a lot after the rise of fictional games.

Ho88it4 days ago

I must say that although we clearly agree on little, I appreciate that you have responded civilly, unlike OP.

I am glad we agree that entertainment has influence. The question now is what influence does it have. The main evidence that I have presented so far is logical: that if a person uses SA as entertainment, they must accept that it is entertaining, which means that they must, on some level, view it as acceptable. People are not entertained things that they view as totally unacceptable. And people tend to do things that they believe to be acceptable. You would agree with that, right?

"What you brought was essentially wishful thinking. You assert that playing x is bad because whatever your chain of logic was. There is another chain of logic that playing x would suppress any urges to try out x in real life, which would make games about x a good thing, would it not. You did not disprove that."

First of all, I find that chain of logic to be faulty. How would playing a game suppress such urges? Speaking of things that have been disproven, the idea of "blowing off steam" to suppress desires has been accepted as false and damaging.

Secondly, I demonstrated that feeding addictive behaviors leads that desire to increase, causing people to need more in order to satisfy. And I did it using a pattern that everyone can recognize in addiction, including drug addiction, porn addiction, etc. Can you point out a fault in that chain of logic? I pointed out the problem in the chain you suggested.

"But it does not and might even work the complete opposite way: someone seeing/playing/reading a thing in fiction realizes that they could never ever do that thing in real life."

This is where the realism of the game comes in and becomes important. In a game like Warhammer, where everything is so obviously fictional and impossible, this principle might apply. But there is nothing "impossible" about sexually assaulting someone. It can be done. This is an important distinction.

For your example about Japan: I admit that I know little about SA games from Japan because I don't play such things. But this is why I don't think statistics can really tell us the full story. Why did you decide to round to x10? Seems pretty arbitrary to me. There are a whole host of other factors like I mentioned before (apart from "cultural bias") that could hide the impact of their SA games. Underreporting, harsher penalties for sexual criminals, possible differences in legal definitions and counting systems just to name a few. Your example makes so many assumptions that I find it functionally useless.

"Now, I am not convinced that it does work this way, but data and my own decades long experience in video games hint at it, and I want a lot better evidence than your assertions to contemplate restricting adult entertainment that consists of made up things and pixels. I have no right to restrict another person's choice of entertainment. Even if I am appaled or disgusted by it. Even if it depicts fictional things that are illegal in real life."

Not much to say here. I just don't agree. I think its fine for this platform to choose to restrict access to SA material. No rights are violated.

"There is a break in logic here. You start at the point where you already have someone contemplating actual crime. You beg the question. You also equate being entertained to fantasizing about the thing. And that is why I accused you of accusing me of fantasiszing about mass murder! You assert a psychological mechanism and you assert a motivation. There is no reason to believe these things would only work for adult games."

There is no begging the question because the person we are talking about is playing the game about raping their stepmother for entertainment. And I never claimed they work exclusively in adult games. But I do claim that is one place where they work. Also, remember that I said that all FPS games to mass murderer is not a comparison I would use.

I'm sorry you are sick of the "blame-the-games" rhetoric, but as I said, the games you play have an effect on your life whether you are sick of it or not. The mechanism I mentioned, which is that what you do for entertainment affects how you view the world, and that how your view the world affects how you act, is just obviously true.

"... but it is not other people. You just assert that those people fantasize about doing things for real. You do not know what their motivation is. I assure you, a game without any gameplay will get boring quickly and the novelty factor of seeing realistic graphics wears off quickly. You need things like story and gameplay. What fades less quickly is the annoyance if you see signs of censorship in the game you are playing. Someone trying to impose their agenda on your entertainment. Kinda like the beeps in some audio tracks. "

You talk about the "novelty factor" wearing off. This means it becomes normal. In a game like this, where SA is the topic, that means the novelty factor around SA wears off, and it becomes normal. This is bad.

Finally, with regards to your frequent requests for data: Show me some data that proves that playing games featuring SA has no correlation with viewing sexual assault as acceptable. We could go back and forth sending each other links to studies supporting our opinions for a very long time, and never get anywhere.

Certainly, SA is not the exclusive fault of video games. But, if a game contributes to the novelty factor of SA wearing off, it is a game that I would not host on any site I own.

redonihunter4 days ago(+1)

OP is on a rant. I only understand half of it. But some things like that picture with the kid playing games and getting it from the adults and the young adult getting it from the older people with the same BS in different words, is how I see the situation. I saw it happen. I was there. ~~3000 years ago.~~

The main evidence that I have presented so far is logical: that if a person uses SA as entertainment, they must accept that it is entertaining, which means that they must, on some level, view it as acceptable.

That is not evidence. That is your hypothesis how this works. Exchange SA for murder and apply your hypothesis to all those crime tv shows. Crime is popular entertainment since like forever. So society should have accepted it long ago as socially acceptable. Is this so? No. Hypothesis rejected.

How would playing a game suppress such urges?

How it might do so? You play the game and control the events. You are playing. A pretend sitation in a safe environment. You do a bad thing. You might snigger and lough at the absurdity. Or you might feel bad for hurting some imaginary pixels. Either way, you might take away from it, how you would react in a real sitation and then have fun in the unreal situation and fool around. Not unlike some people go over imaginary discussions while in the shower.

the idea of "blowing off steam" to suppress desires has been accepted as false and damaging

Care to link me to some data about that? And what kind of desires are we talking about. I am not asserting that clinically insane mass rapists can cure their urges with that. I am merely protesting your assertion that playing such a game creates those urges or creates a demand for more, and the data I saw and my own experiences with games suggest that if any, there is the opposite effect of what you described. I for sure do not feel the urge to murder people. And I find guns abhorent. But willingly engage with them in a (virtual) play situation.

Secondly, I demonstrated that feeding addictive behaviors leads that desire to increase

Your premise is an already addicted person and you did not demonstrate, you asserted. Also, addicted to what? SA? Playing games?

The connection you try to make, is, that being addicted to a game with fictional content (or playing that game) will leap over to being addicted, or even try out that thing in real life.

But there is nothing "impossible" about sexually assaulting someone. It can be done. This is an important distinction.

Murder is also very possible. Or stealing cars like in GTA. Wait, so if SA is happening to furry bunnies, it would be ok? It is a game! People know that they play a game. It is a bit condescending to only allow them to see the difference, if it is about Orcs, but not allow them to see the difference, if it is about regular humans.

But this is why I don't think statistics can really tell us the full story. Why did you decide to round to x10? Seems pretty arbitrary to me.

It is. But saying x10 much is easier as 1.34 / 41.8, and it catches more countries. Actual numbers are here https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/rape-statistics-by-country

You can feed a lot of cultural and statistical bias into those numbers to even them out. But if video games about the crimes are relevant here, I would expect the numbers to be a lot closer together, or rather expect the Japanese number to be bigger and not to be x31 smaller. So I either accept that the video games are not relevant here, or I accept that it has the opposite effect of what you claim.

I do not know the situaion in other countries in regards to the availablility of such video games. Are they very popular in Britain maybe, because they have more than double the amount than the US?

You talk about the "novelty factor" wearing off. This means it becomes normal.

No. It does not become normal in real life! It becomes a seen thing in such games. It's novelty bonus fades. It contributes less to the entertainment.

We could go back and forth sending each other links to studies supporting our opinions for a very long time, and never get anywhere.

I am awaiting a link to something that would support that connection you try to establish. It did not work for fps games decades ago. And for SA specifically, the data contradicts the assertion. The place where those games are known to be readily available for adults has one of the lowest SA rates on the planet.

Ho88it2 days ago (1 edit)

I see that LOTR reference :D

"That is not evidence. That is your hypothesis how this works. Exchange SA for murder and apply your hypothesis to all those crime tv shows. Crime is popular entertainment since like forever. So society should have accepted it long ago as socially acceptable. Is this so? No. Hypothesis rejected."

It is not empirical evidence. But I am not using the scientific method here because we are not conducting a scientific experiment, so no, this is not a hypothesis. It is a fundamental point that if you find something truly unacceptable, you will not do it. If someone is disgusted by spiders and finds their presence truly unacceptable, they will never get a pet tarantula, nor will they ever knowingly and willingly touch a spider. If they did so, then they would be accepting the presence of the spider in the very act of getting the pet. The same applies with SA. In the very act of entertaining yourself with a SA game, you are finding its contents (SA) acceptable. This is one main reason why I think itchio's removal of this game was acceptable: to encourage people not to accept SA.

"How it might do so? You play the game and control the events. You are playing. A pretend sitation in a safe environment. You do a bad thing. You might snigger and lough at the absurdity. Or you might feel bad for hurting some imaginary pixels. Either way, you might take away from it, how you would react in a real sitation and then have fun in the unreal situation and fool around. Not unlike some people go over imaginary discussions while in the shower"

Respectfully, I do not think this is how people are playing this game, and that you might be being a little intentionally obtuse. No one is snickering and laughing there way through this game because it is so absurd and amusing. And no on is playing it to try to learn about how they would react in this real life situation. They are playing it to masturbate, to fantasize. How many players of this game do you think are selecting the option to refrain from having forcible sex with the character in the game?

"Care to link me to some data about that? And what kind of desires are we talking about. I am not asserting that clinically insane mass rapists can cure their urges with that. I am merely protesting your assertion that playing such a game creates those urges or creates a demand for more, and the data I saw and my own experiences with games suggest that if any, there is the opposite effect of what you described. I for sure do not feel the urge to murder people. And I find guns abhorent. But willingly engage with them in a (virtual) play situation."

Perhaps I worded my claim a too strongly in my last message. But the whole idea of "blowing off steam" to suppress perversions (his term!) is rooted in Freudian psychology, which has been criticized for years for being pseudoscientific. And, even in Freudian psychology, there are nuances to this idea that phrase "blowing off steam" does not adequately cover. I encourage you to look into the widespread criticisms and nuances of [Freudian psychology catharsis theory] if you are interested in this (in the [] would be a good search term). I won't be dropping a ton of links, but the abstract of this paper might provide a decent starting point: https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1985-26058-001

Additionally, I clarified that playing a game like this would not make all players desire to commit sexual assault. But it has an effect of exacerbating those tastes particularly in those who already show tendencies toward violence.

"Your premise is an already addicted person and you did not demonstrate, you asserted. Also, addicted to what? SA? Playing games?

The connection you try to make, is, that being addicted to a game with fictional content (or playing that game) will leap over to being addicted, or even try out that thing in real life. "

But how do people get addicted to things? Do they just magically wake up addicted to drugs or cigarettes or porn or anything? No, they become addicted by using those things. Have you every heard of an alcoholic who had never had alcohol? The connection I am making is that playing a pornographic game (porn is addictive) that contains sexual assault can lead people to follow that path that most addictions take (needing more to satisfy), and that that pattern, especially for those with other risk factors, can lead them to finding sexual assault acceptable, either by doing it themselves, or by not reacting when they know it has been done by others.

"Murder is also very possible. Or stealing cars like in GTA. Wait, so if SA is happening to furry bunnies, it would be ok? It is a game! People know that they play a game. It is a bit condescending to only allow them to see the difference, if it is about Orcs, but not allow them to see the difference, if it is about regular humans."

You didn't really demonstrate any problem with the point of realism being a factor. Something being more realistic makes it easier to immerse yourself in that fantasy. Being immersed in a fantasy about killing creatures that aren't real is one thing, being immersed in a fantasy about committing SA or a school shooting, like my point was talking about, is far worse.

And no, sexually assaulting furry bunnies is gross and certainly not ok.

"

It is. But saying x10 much is easier as 1.34 / 41.8, and it catches more countries. Actual numbers are here https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/rape-statistics-by-country

You can feed a lot of cultural and statistical bias into those numbers to even them out. But if video games about the crimes are relevant here, I would expect the numbers to be a lot closer together, or rather expect the Japanese number to be bigger and not to be x31 smaller. So I either accept that the video games are not relevant here, or I accept that it has the opposite effect of what you claim.

I do not know the situaion in other countries in regards to the availablility of such video games. Are they very popular in Britain maybe, because they have more than double the amount than the US?

"

Anything you feed in is arbitrary though. It's just what you decided to feed in. You can't possibly accurately feed all the factors in. Like I said, what about underreporting? What about the fact that the west is much more open about sex? What about the millions of other factors that determine the results that appear on that website? Did you read the disclaimer on the site you linked to under the heading "The Challenge of Tracking Down Truthful Rape Statistics"? That makes the point I am trying to make pretty well. Given all those factors, it makes sense that the impact of video games would be present but not visible, like a drop of rain in the ocean during a hurricane.

"No. It does not become normal in real life! It becomes a seen thing in such games. It's novelty bonus fades. It contributes less to the entertainment. "

This goes back to what I said before. What you do for entertainment is a part of your "real life", and it affects your perceptions and way of seeing the world. It's not fake, you really did participate in that entertainment. You are not a different person when you are entertaining yourself than you are elsewhere.

"I am awaiting a link to something that would support that connection you try to establish. It did not work for fps games decades ago. And for SA specifically, the data contradicts the assertion. The place where those games are known to be readily available for adults has one of the lowest SA rates on the planet."

I will provide a few resources here, but as I said before, I will not go back and forth playing the statistics game. I do this so you see that there is support for out there for my link between using sexual assault for entertainment and accepting it in real life. Remember that science and statistics cannot tell you if the results of playing this game are good or bad, it can only observe trends based on a limited set of variables. We need to use our logic, common sense, and moral/ethical judgement to decide what to do with the trends that we pull out of them. And, we can notice cause and effect using logic without some kind of scientific experiment.

Nevertheless, here are some studies to show that there is scientific evidence supporting a link between sexualized video games and real-life sexual behavior, which leads naturally into my more specific claim about sexual assault:

Effects of sexualized video games on online sexual harassment (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ab.21811)
Playing a Videogame with a Sexualized Female Character Increases Adolescents' Rape Myth Acceptance and Tolerance Toward Sexual Harassment (https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/g4h.2014.0055)
Violence Against Women in Video Games: A Prequel or Sequel to Rape Myth Acceptance?(https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0886260512441078)

So there, you have some links to go through. And I have already addressed your claim about Japan. You cannot possibly accurately account for all the variables in national SA stats, therefore, your claim that the Japanese rape games have no impact (or no impact causing rates of SA to go up) on the SA stats relative to other countries has no compelling evidence to support it.

Again, all these negative impacts of a SA game on the players are only part of the point. The other part is again, that itchio is allowed to, and indeed is right in, removing this game from their site.

One final thought. This is a bit of an emotional argument, but I think it can tell us something. I will assume you are a man. Imagine yourself in this scenario: Imagine you are someone who plays this game. Now, imagine going to a woman close to you, like your mother, or girlfriend, or sister, etc. and trying to explain how you entertain yourself by playing a game where you sexually assault a woman. A woman who, by what I've heard, is your stepmother. Doesn't sound like a pleasant conversation. She would likely feel disrespected, creeped out, disgusted, and, if she cares about you, would likely be quite worried about you. And how would you feel doing it? Would that not be awkward and shameful? I think those natural emotions that every normal person would have should tell us something about how we should perceive a game like this, and whether we should play it.

Antigone_Black5 days ago(+1)

ut do you seriously believe that someone who fantasizes about sexual assault (and is aroused by it) is less likely to actually do it than someone who doesn't???

you you can't. the science is clear on that. and you have no issue with GTA V or Mortal Kombat. anyone agreeing with you is bad.

a facist lite. these are your thoutgs. this was a visual novel. not a "simulator".

Ho88it4 days ago

I don't really care if it was a visual novel or a simulator. The point still stands