Post by IslandWind in Fix NSFW - itch.io

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IslandWind128 days ago(+2)

I have a game that covers some mature topics, so I labelled it NSFW. There's no logic in deciding that since I have a game that tackles themes that aren't suitable for kids, I should have to risk seeing literal pornography whenever I log on to Itch, which in turn means I basically can't do so on a laptop in public.

The excuse is that "oh, but otherwise you wouldn't see your own game", as if it wouldn't be trivially easy to show users their own games even though they were still blocking other NSFW content. I pointed this out to a moderator and was told that if I saw my own game, but not other peoples' NSFW games, that would be... Shadowbanning, somehow. Hope that's not the official position of the Itch.io admins.

No Time To Play128 days ago

Perhaps because that's the literal dictionary definition of the word.

IslandWind128 days ago (1 edit)

You seem (again) to be applying that definition to something completely different from what I said, because it doesn't fit what I proposed in any way. Also Wikipedia isn't a dictionary.

No Time To Play128 days ago

...It's Wiktionary, not that the difference matters when we're trying to define a word. But okay, let's check out Merriam-Webster. Spoiler, it says the exact same thing: when you can see your own content but other users can't (all else being equal) that's shadow banning.

IslandWind128 days ago

Again, I have no idea how you managed to read that into what I said.

redonihunter128 days ago(+1)

to show users their own games even though

I think the misunderstanding is the context.

If you show the content of a user regardless of any settings or status and block it for other users, that is a shadow ban. Making the user think the content is shown to everyone, while in truth that user is the only one that can see it.

I always thought that shadow banning meant something different. Like silently banning something, banning it by soft banning it, or demoting it stealthily. But apparantly those kinds of bans are a thing on some platforms.

The suggestion is only similar to a shadow ban, since when the adult toggle is set to show, all users see the same. But if the setting would be toggleable and Itch would show the game to a publisher with the toggle set to hide, all users do not see the same - which is technically called a shadow ban if the only user that sees the content is the publisher of said content. That might even lead to concerned publishers contacting support that the nsfw setting does not work for their game, since they can see it right there among the regular horror games...

I would prefer different solutions that do not involve changing appearance depending on who browses the lists and do not lock out user options for user accounts. If this is really about avoiding complaints, that can be approached differently.

IslandWind128 days ago

"That might even lead to concerned publishers contacting support that the nsfw setting does not work for their game, since they can see it right there among the regular horror games..."

Again, trivially easy to add a note explaining that you'll always be able to see your own games.

Also, again, a shadowban is a punishment where a. the admin/moderators of a site decides that no one sees a user's content, and b. it happens without them being informed of this decision. Neither a nor b is even close to what we're talking about here --other users who choose to not show NSFW content will not see my game, exactly like before, and I know of the decision because I made the informed decision to label my game as NSFW, knowing full well that this filter exists and how it works because, well, I'm turning on the filter myself.

redonihunter127 days ago

That would be the context I mentioned. In one case it does not matter, since everyone sees the same. In the other case, it would be the same as a shadow ban, except for the cause and intention. That is similar to the change in wording when talking about protective custody vs. imprisonment.

Only in this discussion here, there is no alternative term used that means the same but implies different cause and intention. For the sake of argument let us use "whitelisted".

So, if your own games are whitelisted, that would have different side effects. Also, how would that look with the adult filter? All 20000 adult games get filtered away, but your 2 will not? This sound not much like a solution, but it inspired me to another approach:

Search has four different kinds of results to my knowledge.

1 Tags in the suggested list. That is only shown, if there are results.

2 Exact names of titles.

3 Exact names of developers.

4 Other matches of title, developer, short description

2-4 are lumped together by relevance.

Results are capped at about 60.

Changing regular search, so it would show a 5th category between 1 and 2 might be doable and benefitial for all users. The 5th result would be results among the users library, including collections and public published projects. Many people wish for a search option for your own collections.

If the adult setting is set to not show, the search could still display them in 5 as "hidden due to your current settings", or show them anyway with a disclaimer. There could also only be a counter like Steam does it. If you search items but some are filtered away, it tells so.

No Time To Play127 days ago (2 edits)

And as I explained in our previous conversation, that you completely misrepresented here: people already make lots of forum posts to complain about being "shadow banned" simply because their projects haven't been indexed yet. In other words when there's no punishment, and no intention of punishing anyone, and in fact everyone sees the same results. Imagine if it was discovered one day that itch.io shows different results to different people.

Edit: in fact people also make lots of forum posts to complain about the same problem you have, and it turns out they don't even remember marking their game as NSFW. They simply saw the checkbox on the metadata tab, ticked it for... some reason, then forgot about it. If itch.io worked the way you're requesting, to them it would look like their project, that they can find through the site just fine, is mysteriously hidden from most other people for no apparent reason. Cue even more complaints.