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Before her H-scene she herself confirms the rumors, that is correct, then an extra layer of proof is added when you see her exit a hotel with a client a little while later. But the conversation that Kaizen was talking about was a conversation between MC, Ayase, Yuka, and Chika in a restaurant, NOT the one between Chika and the MC in the MC's apartment. 

This is where the "Not sure if I'm misremembering or not" part of my comment comes in as I haven't replayed that specific conversation (the restaurant one), but I believe that in the restaurant conversation she simply mentions that there are rumors going around school about her. Kaizen, was acting as if at that point in time, those rumors were 100% proven true simply because Chika mentioned them. She basically said something like "people are saying I have sex for money" and Kaizen took that as her pretty much saying "I DO have sex for money. It's 100% confirmed true." Kaizen was then using that as evidence that Chika's "prostitution" was already mentioned when at that specific point it was nothing more than a rumor.

My comment was pointing out how those "rumors" don't exist BEFORE that conversation in the restaurant, when Chika brings them to your attention. NOBODY mentions them UNTIL THAT POINT. Which is one of the reasons why the players are upset as it feels like it comes out of literally nowhere with absolutely zero buildup. When they get to the restaurant and Chika mentions the rumors, the average player (me included) is most likely thinking something along the lines of "Oh, they're just rumors, surely the story will involve us proving that they're false." Only to be severely disappointed when the story then proceeds to double down on the rumors by instantly confirming them to be true a short while later.

Also it's important to note that KS says the quotes around "prostitute" matter, so I don't know what the hell that means.

Take a break if you want to man, I'd understand it. 

At the very least it's foreshadowed in Episode 1 so it's not like New Horizons to where it's "foreshadowed" that one of the characters is a "prostitute" about 5 to 10 minutes before it's confirmed true after you've already played hours of content.

Anyways, for my actual full scale opinion. I think it's fine, I despise ntr and that scene did nothing to me other than what I think it was supposed to do. Which was to make me understand why the MC is trying so hard to "be" someone else. So I'd label it as the "good" form (it actually hurts me to say "good" and ntr in the same sentence) of ntr, it's a skippable past event that already happened to the MC, the MC wasn't into it at all, nor did he actively encourage it, and it's used as a key facet of his character, his story, as well as the main story. Plus he didn't watch the "full" scene, the shock caused him to collapse to his knees and knock the door open.

It's a major plot point that his ex cheated on him, happens in real life too and while it's understandable that people don't want that kind of stuff to happen in VNs, it can still be used to tell interesting and entertaining stories like Echoes. The way I see it, the MC is using that experience to try and get his life together and improve, to try and be more active and less secluded. 

My only potential problem with it is if there would be any forced ntr in the future, like no matter what choices you make the MC agrees to some sort of sharing or one of the girls cheats on him, THAT would make me upset and switch sides.

I say keep making the game, after all the scene IS labeled as a "side girl" which pretty much means its completely optional to get back together with her, and it's not even confirmed if it's even possible to do so. BUT, your health is the most important thing, so take a break. However long you need, I'll gladly wait. Take care man.

Cool. Sounds exciting.

Oh, here's an important question for some people, and it's also just good to know in general:

Harem? or no?

So what exactly is the penalty for breaking enemies? Because the game mentions there are "permanent consequences" for it but it's literally the ONLY way to win some of these fights with healers in them because breaking enemies makes their allies lose the ability to heal/buff them allowing them to be killed for good.

Otherwise the healers enter an infinite if/then loop where they heal/resurrect any low health enemy. They pretty much turn into one of those enemy fights where you NEED to kill them all at the same time or they resurrect. And it is incredibly annoying, especially since the stuns you have access to are only a 50% chance to proc and it takes forever to raise that percentage. And even the stuns become useless if there's 3 healers since whoever ISN'T stunned will just heal or resurrect one of the stunned guys. Not to mention the fact that they sometimes decide 75% health is low enough to heal and end up giving their friend overhealth so they're now at like 135 out of 75 health.

I'd recommend either adding cooldowns to the enemy heals, lowering how much they heal, or something else entirely.

Edit: after reading the description again it mentions breaking "POWERFUL" souls, does that mean whatever the penalty is, it's only for bosses?

That's good to know I'll get the points at some point.

Also, that would explain it then. English IS a rough language to learn/deal with, especially if it's your second language. But for what it's worth your English is also pretty good compared to some others I've seen and the grammar/spelling problems are few in number. They also don't hurt the experience too much either.

So I'm just now playing Episode 2, and I just have a little problem with it so far. 

Back in Episode 1 where you get the choice to go and have sex with Roxy, choosing "no" has you leave the party with Mina instead and you have a heartfelt conversation with her and then a choice to kiss her or not. Everything there feels perfectly built up and reasonable within the context of the scene.

But in Episode 2, if you DID choose to go with Roxy in Episode 1 that whole sequence with Mina is kinda squeezed in before Mina's first scene and it feels... Kinda bad? Like it doesn't really feel like it fits there. It especially feels like it shouldn't lead INTO her H-Scene. But it does give you 2 new unique choices to make to try and "make up" for the points you missed out on in Episode 1 though which is greatly appreciated. But saying no to Roxy still feels like the right choice since it builds up Mina's character in a better way.

So I guess I just have to ask if I can eventually get those 2 points with Roxy back later (similarly to how you get the chance to get the two back for Mina), or is going to her apartment to have sex with her the ONLY way to get them?

There is one thing I have to say while I'm at it though. The writing here in Echoes, seems substantially better than in MoS (I should probably play your other games too at some point to get a proper point of reference but I have yet to get around to them, and MoS is the only one I've played so far.) MoS, feels more... rushed? Like it has more spelling and grammar mistakes and the story is good enough for a parody, but it isn't the best. But Echoes feels better overall, less spelling and grammar problems. And the story is original, and quite good so far too. Not to mention the characters are all well written so far with very distinct personalities, appearances, stories, and even hidden sides. The visuals in both games are really good though.

Once again, I don't have a proper point of reference so I'm not sure if this is an actual improvement in your overall skill and writing quality or it just turns out MoS is more of a "just for fun" sorta thing. While Echoes is "It's time for me to get serious again." Please don't take any offence by any of this btw. This is just me struggling to put things into words and writing down what comes into my mind first, it's intended to be criticism that's hopefully valid. Anyways, great job with Echoes so far, I've been loving it and am very interested to see where the story and characters take me.

Not sure if I'm misremembering or not but that conversation mentions how they are rumors. How people SAY she does that.

The definition of rumor is: "a currently circulating story or report of uncertain or doubtful truth."

I.e. possibly false. Something that may not be true at all.

You make it sound like it's a fact that she's a prostitute, when it's not. Rumors can be TRUE OR FALSE. And I'm a firm believer in the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing so I tend to not make judgements without proper evidence, or at the very least keep my judgments light as well as give the benefit of the doubt, and the fact that it is stated as a rumor helps take some of the suspicion away... 

Until Chika comes out of a love hotel with a random guy a day or two after her first H-scene...

THAT would be the "until proven guilty" part. It is impossible to deny the evidence your own eyes give you. She comes out of a love hotel... with another guy. Ergo the prostitute rumor is then confirmed to be true.

That wouldn't be as much of a problem IF it was properly built up to. I've mentioned this in a comment I made 2 months ago, but I'll mention it again. I believe those rumors aren't found anywhere else outside of that exact conversation which represents a massive missed opportunity by the dev. Players first see Chika as a goth who is closed off and apprehensive about friendships. When this random "rumor" is then confirmed to be true a day or so after her scene, it blindsides people because they only just discovered it moments ago. Throughout the game leading up to that point, you find NOTHING about that rumor. NOTHING hints that Chika is a "prostitute." It practically doesn't even exist until SHE HERSELF mentions it RIGHT THEN AND THERE. 

At the very least characters should've been talking about the rumors throughout the game, which would then allow more of a story buildup as well as an opportunity for the dev to add in hints as to why the quotes around "prostitute" matter instead of the "just trust me bro" excuse that the dev is currently using. That way the players could possibly discover the hints and then build theories around the whole thing. It'd foster engagement in the community instead of discourse like it is now as well as create more trust with the dev overall. Right now all we can do is wait until 0.4 releases and replaying the game right now yields no additional insight into why it's "prostitute" and not prostitute. 0.4 will essentially be the "make or break" update for many people. Resulting in either people forgiving the dev, or a mass exodus away from the game. Plus there's the fact that his trust has dropped in the eyes of many, which I can see resulting in accusations of the dev rewriting Chika's story in some way or another.

Dev says Bianca isn't one of the Love Interests but he has other plans for her, whatever they may be.

Just finished chapter 3 and god DAMN it was good! Definitely worth the wait and I will definitely wait however long it takes for the next chapter.

Every single character is incredibly well written so far. And as you learn more about each one, they only seem to become better and better. I've also found each chapter has a heavy focus on a couple of characters at a time so far. Chapter 1 focusing on the MC and Eve, Chapter 2 focusing on Saki and Zoe, then Chapter 3 focusing on Fiona, Lexi, and Desiree. The title card for each chapter also seems to foreshadow what the main focus points are going to be. 

Each chapter continues to reveal more about the MC as he overcomes his problems and tries to become a better person. Chapter 3 reveals a lot about Fiona, Lexi and Dessie, that make them that much more appealing and interesting. Never once have I thought a character in this game was boring or bland in any way. It is an incredibly rewarding feeling, unraveling their stories, motivations, and quirks as you progress through it. Not to mention these characters could probably pass the damn Turing test with how real they feel.

It's also still the classic underdog story we've all heard and loved. But once again in Chapter 3 it does it WELL. And it sounds like we're finally getting to the best parts too.

You and your team are doing an absolutely outstanding job so far and I wish each of you all of the luck in the world! However long it takes, I will patiently wait. Especially if waiting results in such superb quality.

I'd say the amount of people who've downloaded and played should be good enough proof it's trustworthy.

But if you're still worried just run some virus scans and what not. Windows also usually freaks out about random garbage sometimes. I personally had to add Battle Brothers to an exception list in order to get it to run with mods and my PC's been completely fine since. 

Sometimes you just kinda have to take a risk and play it anyway. In those cases a virus scan before and a virus scan after is what I usually do. It also doesn't hurt to research the game beforehand, like taking a look at the Patreon, Subscribestar, itch page, and everything in between to make sure it's as trustworthy as possible. Could even ask around the Discord if need be.

1, 2 or 3 in that order is my vote. 

But hey, this type of stuff just kinda happens in this field. Lots of people just want to make a game as a fun little hobby and maybe make a buck or two on the side, but then real life comes in and knocks them onto their back. So if you want to kind of retire for a little while and wait for things to die down, go for it. I'd completely understand. Also you don't need to update the game daily, that tends to add more stress than anything else. And overall, I'd say your health is more important than getting a new update for a game.

That'd be it. No I did not so, nevermind. Thanks for telling me though.

The skeleton is a troll character. It's only purpose is to give you access to the map it comes in.

Then you can place various characters IN that map with the pumpkin hat on and something will happen when the piston does its thing.

The skeleton is a troll character. It's only purpose is to give you access to the map it comes in.

Then you can place various characters IN that map with the pumpkin hat on and something will happen when the piston does its thing.

Probably one of those weird things technology does. You know, how some things work for others while some don't. Then you turn off a completely unrelated setting and suddenly it starts working. Computers are weird like that. Code, is weird like that.

I still think it's better to be safe than sorry though, and keep Discord OFF on the off chance the setting decides to just stop working.

How do you even get those? I've tried both "business" and "pleasure" a bunch of times and I've never even gotten that resource.

Someone else said it doesn't work.  So you need to have Discord COMPLETELY CLOSED if you're playing this, not even running in the background LMAO.

That'd just piss people off. I can already imagine people screaming that "easy mode" would be locked behind a paywall if he did that.

Instead, I'd just prefer it if the dev released more content for free instead of locking everything behind a subscription. Or at least had a one time payment thing. 

Because right now paying monthly in order to access a game is not something I wanna do and I'd gladly drop $10 if it meant I had permanent access to the game.

New update (0.2) gives you some much needed insight into the MC's hatred for demons which is much appreciated, as well as advances his bond with Red to where it makes sense as to why it kinda feels like he "second guesses" himself about Red. Though I still feel like his nature early game feels off and I still hold the belief that a couple scenes around town before the disappearance would be effective in remedying that "off" feeling, even if they're short.

It also adds to the worldbuilding a tiny bit more. Showing off and talking about a few other races. So I'm assuming the game's going for a "learn as you go" type thing. Which is alright, starts confusing but gets marginally less confusing as you go on. Though it may sometimes take a while to do so with that type of approach. 

That's about it. Other than that first thing, the update was pretty good and enjoyable. Also showed that the MC wasn't a pushover which is always nice in these games.

Question for ya. 

Do you feel the same way when a woman says she's good at blowjobs because she studied porn?

Anyways, you'd be missing out on a lot if you give up because of a single dumb line. And at the very least the game actually GIVES you a reason other than "He's just good at it, trust me bro" like most others do.

I don't know what to say, because I don't know how far you are in both Sicae and MBML. But MBML's story comes after Sicae's story.

There's things in the story that point to this, and I can go into more detail if necessary, but the key thing is to look at Kei's (Sicae MC) appearance in Sicae and compare it to his appearance in MBML. You'll notice some strange differences that aren't there at the beginning of MBML. Which instantly puts MBML further in the timeline than Sicae.

Itchio seems to be notoriously bad at responding to these tickets. Hearts on Parole and Artifice both got their pages completely wiped despite not breaking TOS AT ALL. And they've only been recently reinstated or whatever. I'd keep bugging them until they cave.

Ahh yes, 5 months since my last comment and the drama's still going strong I see.

Just try not to make Chika's story "tragic for the sake of being tragic" please, I mean her backstory is kinda laid bare already so there isn't much else to add to it. Asshole father, bullied constantly, mother died and she is blamed for it, plus I guess it IS implied that she's a prostitute and it's never directly shown. Though she does mention it herself... And she IS seen exiting a love hotel with another man, but surely that's nothing right?

I'm also still curious how this whole situation will end and I still think it was a ballsy move to begin with. I mean, surely you must've known the consequences of such an action right? Implying that one of the MAIN girls is a prostitute is an incredibly ballsy move considering how much of the community (me included) consider that a red flag. 

I ALSO feel like you're missing some of the point though with the, presumably updated, Chika comment. It's not that Chika ISN'T a virgin that people are concerned with, or else every Milf character would get the same complaints. It's that she's a main girl who ISN'T initially portrayed as a prostitute, people first see her as Chika, a goth looking girl who's apprehensive about friendships or something. Not someone who has sex for money. So when they eventually learn of that, it upsets them because it comes from pretty much nowhere. Unless I'm wrong, you can't find any mention of those rumors that Chika tells you about. She herself mentions how "people say she has sex for money," yet the MC doesn't hear any of that. Could've maybe used that as a plot point or something, had a couple of the other students mention those rumors and maybe the MC confronts her about them at some point or gets curious enough to look into it, but whatever. Missed opportunity and what you are seeing are the consequences of such.

THAT's why people are kinda mad, it isn't foreshadowed (to my knowledge). So it comes from nowhere. They see a tattooed goth girl and JUST that. They don't give a shit she isn't a virgin, or like 90% of them don't? I imagine a couple do, but that's all. So people have no idea what awaits them in the future of her story. They have no idea that her first H-scene OPTION is prefaced by a "I have sex for money" reveal. Then followed by her exiting a love hotel with another man a day or two later. Plus there's the fact that most prostitute-esque characters are limited to being side characters, the fact that Chika is a main character and is a "prostitute" (apparently the quotes matter), is also a point of concern as she goes against that stereotype.

THEN, there's that rumor where you basically benched Yuka and Eri (banished to the side character roster) to further develop Chika's story, which I imagine definitely adds to the disappointment as Yuka is at least a common character. 

Ooh, real quick piece of advice, I might also recommend an in-game walkthrough as that might help people pick up on the fact that SAYING NO TO CHIKA'S H-SCENE GIVES YOU MORE POINTS with her.

Anywho, no idea how you're gonna solve all this trouble you've caused yourself, but... good luck? again? Guess I'll be back in another 6 or so months? Since it seems to be taking a while.

Updates in the final steps according to some free posts on his patreon. Almost done being edited, then it's about to be sent out to be proof read and translated.

I'd recommend checking the dev's patreon for a free post every now and then as he seems to put the fairly important ones out for free.

New free post on Patreon says it's almost done with final edits, then it'll be sent to be proof read and then translated. Once all that's done a release date should follow.

I'd recommend "joining for free" on Patreon as the dev seems to post important updates for free.

Dev occasionally puts out free posts on patreon to look at so I'd recommend at least using that "joining for free" thing they have there and sometimes checking patreon for a free post.

Most recent one says chapter 3 is in the FINAL stages of development. It's being read over, edited, suggestions are being given on what to change, proof reading, testing, translating, that type of stuff.

Damn, this game really has everyone fiending for more.

It's quite easily triggered when interacting with the PC. If you open up the streaming site or shop and click roughly where the news icon WOULD be, it brings up the news report and closes the PC. Then when interacting with things it brings up the shop/streaming site instead.

I also have to express some concern here since I bought it through itch. If it moves to Patreon, I'd rather not have to buy it again. 

I understand wanting to ditch itch but at the same time you should probably blame the payment processors/collective shout too as they're the ones who pulled out the proverbial gun and began holding itchio hostage.

Mostly just wondering if I'd have to purchase it again or something.

Is Google's saying it's forbidden or is Itchio saying it's forbidden?

If it's google then just keep trying and eventually it'll stop crying and let you download it. Happens to me sometimes with some of these games.

Restart the game, go to the main menu, and turn off fullscreen.

Ok, so after reading the comments and playing the game for myself I have to say I kinda agree with some of the comments. I take this game more as a very early demo used to gauge interest/show off something. Now, I want to make one thing abundantly clear, that doesn't mean I dislike it, that's just how I'll be talking about it in this comment. And it does it's job of that fairly well as it's gotten me interested in where it might go.

With that in mind, it mainly focuses on introducing some of the characters (MC, his wife, his kids, and the main demon girl "Red"), as well as the main overarching plotline (finding out where the entire town disappeared to, especially the MC's wife and kids). However, it does feel a bit disjointed with the worldbuilding. You're kind of thrown into this fantasy world without any of the explanations that games in these settings do. You don't know the planet you're on, the continent, the kingdom, etc. You don't even know why whatever kingdom you're part of is at war with the demons other than "they eat people." Which makes it seem like ordinary fantasy racism. Especially with the MC, who seemingly second-guesses himself at every corner despite being a trained and (probably) moderately decorated soldier in the war against the demons. He shows an IMMENSE hatred for demons to where he constantly contemplates whether or not he should kill Red for being one, despite her appearing to be harmless. It's as Comfy Cherry said, he shows this hatred, then throws a joke or two at her and acts kind of friendly, then goes back to basically telling her straight to her face that he's going to murder her and it feels a bit off. 

I believe in order to fix some of that, maybe a split to the prologue may help. Take what's in the game now as a "Prologue Part 2," when the game actually begins, and show off some of what the MC experienced in his 4+ years of service in the "Prologue Part 1." You could also combine that part 1 with the sort of introduction to the fantasy world, including things like "these are the races of this world, this is the magic, here's the kingdoms, world, continents, relationships between the kingdoms and various races, maybe what their focuses are (science, military, merchant, diplomatic, etc)," and so forth. ChariKiss didn't need an introduction because it took place in a modern day/modern day adjacent setting and gradually introduced the other aspects.

Now back to that "Prologue Part 1," after the intial introduction, maybe have it also demonstrate the MC's kind of second-guess-ish nature in some way? Have him show some remorse or acceptance that not EVERY demon is evil? Maybe he comes across a demon family just trying to escape the violence and he decides to spare them or something? As well as various scenes showcasing WHY he might hold this, seemingly, undeserved hatred towards demons. It might make it a bit darker and if that's against your vision, then maybe just show a bit of the aftermath instead of the process itself? More of the ruined buildings, refugees, maybe a village or two decimated by the demon's armies?

The MC's wife seems to hold a lot of sway over him to (he's basically just THAT in love with her), so since he's going to be in town for a few weeks as part of his break from active duty, you could have a few scenes between the trip to the market and the disappearance where he observes and interacts with Red a couple of times over the course of a few days, maybe asking some of the townsfolk about her too? That way his actions towards her could then be shifted from "seemingly random" to "I don't want to upset my wife" or "MAYBE, just MAYBE, you're harmless."

Sorry, for all this by the way. I hope it didn't come across as negative, it's meant more as criticism to try and help the game succeed in some way. It's intrigued me and I want to see where it goes, yet I do see some of the problems that people have had with it too. I just hope it can overcome those and succeed is all. Hence, my over extensive rambling.

I feel like I repeat myself every single time I "review" one of these games, but damn. This game was fucking good. 

Everything about this one screams gold and it's got a lot of neat little touches that usually only show up later into a dev's first game or only in their second game. The visuals are great right from the start, the characters' facial expressions are very expressive and well-made, it's got a lore tab, facial expressions that actively change during the h-scenes as a response to the dialogue, it shows you how to pronounce some of the words, and the spell menu is a nice little touch too as it shows everything the MC can do. 

The story/setting itself is pretty damn good. It takes place within a modern world with magic, but it has a teeny tiny difference that makes it feel much different than some of the others. I won't say it here, since it might be a little spoiler-esque. But instead I'll go based off of the game's page alone. The MC is one of the only men left with magic capabilities and as such is practically sought after by everyone, with the hopes that any children he has will be able to use magic. He starts living with Cymhen during a wardship program the Families do. And ends up getting a few goals. Discover the nature of magic, convince the wards to join the investigation, and uncover the truth behind the suspicious string of deaths. The game is early in it's story and as such, you barely scratch the surface of magic and the deaths. But, you get a surprising amount of bonding with the wards. As well as a lot of content to play through.

The characters are pretty great too. Each almost completely unique both in appearance and personality, with only minor similarities that make sense for those characters to have, like if they were related or something. All of them have their own problems they're dealing with and none are the same. From being forced to be a "picture of perfection" by her family to learning that the man she idolizes might not be that good of a person after all, each character's problems are almost entirely unique when compared to the other's. You get a staggering amount of information about each of the 8 girls as well, even the wards who are introduced a little ways past the initial 3. Which allows you to really understand or feel for them.

I should probably stop myself from continuing to ramble on or I'd probably be able to submit this as a scholarship essay. So, all in all, the current content serves as an amazing appetizer for the future of this game and I highly recommend it to anyone looking for interesting stories, settings, characters, etc. I'm really looking forward to the second half of chapter 2.

You've gotta fix some of these bugs. Sometimes the power pellets are scams because they can break the ghosts and make them permanently faster for the rest of the level

Don't know if you speak/understand english but it's worth a try.

On July 1st dev said that 0.3 was about 65% completed in a free patreon post.

Cross Realms maybe?

"OK fuck, there are more than 10..." perfectly sums up my experience too. 

I've got a public collection of about 30 games and I'd consider 20 of them my "top ten"

virusscan.jotti.org right? I see, so you put the entire ZIP into it.

How the fuck did you Jotti scan the game? It only accepts 5 files at once. Did you manually throw every 5 files into it?

Also Windows Defender and Malwarebytes says its fine.